Thanks Penny.

PennyPurple said:

I'd have to go back and check Skipper, I believe that the fentanyl count was so high in either the blood or the liver, that they thought it might have been because of a liquid or spray, but when they got the stomach contents back, it was def in pill form.

SkipperLove said:

I thought they said that all they could to determine was that he consumed the drug. I thought that they were looking at his eyeddrops and enemas because they literally could not find pills in his stomach...only the drug was in his stomach. Did I imagine reading that on here? Its CONFUSING.

They don't look like fentanyl suckers. In his defense when he licked his hand during the Montreux concert, he had a cut on his hand..its there if you look really close. If he played that well while he was high, WOW.

muchtoofast said:

onlyforaminute said:

LOL well if he hadn't been born we sure as heck wouldn't be sitting up in here this moment. I'm accepting he had addiction issues, others don't. Personally I can't wrap my head around counterfeit pills without accepting a problem. I'm mad at him as I work it through but I'm in too deep to ever walk away. So I'm going leave you to yours and hopefully you'll leave me to mine.

I’m befuddled like everyone else. I can’t figure out why he didn’t just take the Percocets. I am convinced he did not know there was any fentanyl in those fake Vicodins. I can’t remember what other drugs were in his system when he died so I’m going to look it up. I also think those suckers he ate in the nineties might have been fentanyl suckers. I also think that time we saw him lick his hand during a concert was suspect, it was just plain weird. Had he rubbed a fentanyl patch on his hand so he could lick it later? So questions remain for me too.

SkipperLove said:

It is not unusual for them to have to give two doses of Narcan. It takes Narcan one hour to leave your system (to be ineffective in your system). Many of those opioids remain in your system for several hours (continue to be effective in your system for several hours). If you give the first dose, the Narcan blocks opioid receptors in your system, reducing the effectiveness of the opioids. In order for the Narcan to leave your system within an hour, means the half-life for Narcan is large, so that it initially is very effective, but within minutes starts losing it's potency. That immediate jolt may not be enough to counteract the effect of an opioid overdose, and the Narcan begins breaking down right after that. So a second dose may have to be given. In one of the earliest threads the Narcan was discussed and it was reported then that they said giving two doses of Narcan is NOT unusual in opioid overdoses.

SkipperLove said:

They don't look like fentanyl suckers. In his defense when he licked his hand during the Montreux concert, he had a cut on his hand..its there if you look really close. If he played that well while he was high, WOW.

muchtoofast said:

onlyforaminute said: I’m befuddled like everyone else. I can’t figure out why he didn’t just take the Percocets. I am convinced he did not know there was any fentanyl in those fake Vicodins. I can’t remember what other drugs were in his system when he died so I’m going to look it up. I also think those suckers he ate in the nineties might have been fentanyl suckers. I also think that time we saw him lick his hand during a concert was suspect, it was just plain weird. Had he rubbed a fentanyl patch on his hand so he could lick it later? So questions remain for me too.

PennyPurple said:

muchtoofast said:

onlyforaminute said: And IF he had never been born he wouldn’t have died of an overdose. If you had written him a letter and convinced him not to take the pills he wouldn’t have died so it’s really your fault he died. No no no The reason he died is because of the high dose of fentanyl.

...And there wouldn't be a fentanyl problem, had he obtained the legal pills with a legal script.

Penny, I know you have a hard time understanding why he didn't go to the doctor for his pain management, if that was what was going on with him. I've tried to explain why people don't always go that route. It could be that he didn't trust doctors, felt like he didn't have time to go to a doctor, or even have a doctor recommend physical therapy and Prince felt like he didn't have time for that so it was a waste of time to go back to a doctor.

It is harder and harder for patients with pain to get prescriptions to pain medications. If you go to the ER, many times they see you as "drug seeking" and will tell you to follow up with your regular doctor. Prince did not keep "regular doctor hours". And he would often go on tour and be gone for a long period of time, going from city to city, country to country. A regular doctor is not going to just call you in a prescription of narcotics without seeing you, legally they can't do that, and it wasn't always feasible for Prince to hop a plane and fly back to Minne to see his doctor when he would have back to back concerts scheduled. It's probably one of the reasons M.J. had a doctor on staff. So, if Prince were on tour, he'd have to see the venue doctors. Many doctors are not going to prescribe opioids if they cannot follow up with you, or if they don't know if you are going to follow up with your regular physician. For Prince, the easiest route would have been just to get his bandmembers or others in his camp, to get medicine from their doctors, because they had regular doctors, or to order what he needed online, or find some other means to get it. Prince was a stubborn man who always had to be in control and always felt like he knew best. Even when he finallly saw Dr. S it was afterhours and Dr. S had to open his office just for Prince.

I hadn't thought about that before, how difficult it would be for a star to go see a doctor during regular hours. In L.A., I'm sure there are doctors that make a habit of having after hours reserved for their star clientele, or that strictly work with stars. In Minneapolis, not so much.

And you've mentioned, "A normal person would go to the doctor if they are in pain." Prince wasn't a normal person. I mean, he told his personal assistant to get him a camel for a video shoot in the middle of the night. He didn't understand why that would be impossible at that time of night.

benni said:

benni said:

PennyPurple said:

...And there wouldn't be a fentanyl problem, had he obtained the legal pills with a legal script.

Penny, I know you have a hard time understanding why he didn't go to the doctor for his pain management, if that was what was going on with him. I've tried to explain why people don't always go that route. It could be that he didn't trust doctors, felt like he didn't have time to go to a doctor, or even have a doctor recommend physical therapy and Prince felt like he didn't have time for that so it was a waste of time to go back to a doctor.

It is harder and harder for patients with pain to get prescriptions to pain medications. If you go to the ER, many times they see you as "drug seeking" and will tell you to follow up with your regular doctor. Prince did not keep "regular doctor hours". And he would often go on tour and be gone for a long period of time, going from city to city, country to country. A regular doctor is not going to just call you in a prescription of narcotics without seeing you, legally they can't do that, and it wasn't always feasible for Prince to hop a plane and fly back to Minne to see his doctor when he would have back to back concerts scheduled. It's probably one of the reasons M.J. had a doctor on staff. So, if Prince were on tour, he'd have to see the venue doctors. Many doctors are not going to prescribe opioids if they cannot follow up with you, or if they don't know if you are going to follow up with your regular physician. For Prince, the easiest route would have been just to get his bandmembers or others in his camp, to get medicine from their doctors, because they had regular doctors, or to order what he needed online, or find some other means to get it. Prince was a stubborn man who always had to be in control and always felt like he knew best. Even when he finallly saw Dr. S it was afterhours and Dr. S had to open his office just for Prince.

I hadn't thought about that before, how difficult it would be for a star to go see a doctor during regular hours. In L.A., I'm sure there are doctors that make a habit of having after hours reserved for their star clientele, or that strictly work with stars. In Minneapolis, not so much.

And you've mentioned, "A normal person would go to the doctor if they are in pain." Prince wasn't a normal person. I mean, he told his personal assistant to get him a camel for a video shoot in the middle of the night. He didn't understand why that would be impossible at that time of night.

neither do I cuz it wasn't such a big deal to get a mountain lion at that time of night.

lemoncrush19 said:

benni said:

Penny, I know you have a hard time understanding why he didn't go to the doctor for his pain management, if that was what was going on with him. I've tried to explain why people don't always go that route. It could be that he didn't trust doctors, felt like he didn't have time to go to a doctor, or even have a doctor recommend physical therapy and Prince felt like he didn't have time for that so it was a waste of time to go back to a doctor.

It is harder and harder for patients with pain to get prescriptions to pain medications. If you go to the ER, many times they see you as "drug seeking" and will tell you to follow up with your regular doctor. Prince did not keep "regular doctor hours". And he would often go on tour and be gone for a long period of time, going from city to city, country to country. A regular doctor is not going to just call you in a prescription of narcotics without seeing you, legally they can't do that, and it wasn't always feasible for Prince to hop a plane and fly back to Minne to see his doctor when he would have back to back concerts scheduled. It's probably one of the reasons M.J. had a doctor on staff. So, if Prince were on tour, he'd have to see the venue doctors. Many doctors are not going to prescribe opioids if they cannot follow up with you, or if they don't know if you are going to follow up with your regular physician. For Prince, the easiest route would have been just to get his bandmembers or others in his camp, to get medicine from their doctors, because they had regular doctors, or to order what he needed online, or find some other means to get it. Prince was a stubborn man who always had to be in control and always felt like he knew best. Even when he finallly saw Dr. S it was afterhours and Dr. S had to open his office just for Prince.

I hadn't thought about that before, how difficult it would be for a star to go see a doctor during regular hours. In L.A., I'm sure there are doctors that make a habit of having after hours reserved for their star clientele, or that strictly work with stars. In Minneapolis, not so much.

And you've mentioned, "A normal person would go to the doctor if they are in pain." Prince wasn't a normal person. I mean, he told his personal assistant to get him a camel for a video shoot in the middle of the night. He didn't understand why that would be impossible at that time of night.

neither do I cuz it wasn't such a big deal to get a mountain lion at that time of night.

In Minneapolis?

I wanted to talk about my experience with IV Narcan. I have given IV Narcan as an ICU nurse twice. Both doses were in 1 mg vials.

We had recently extubated a patient (removed his breathing tube) and he became very drowsy and his resp rate started to decline, so in order to avoid re-intubation, we gave 1 mg of IV Nacan. I will never forget how after it was given, he lurched off the bed, his heart rate was over 100 and he acutally sustained an MI (heart attack). Scared me to death how quickly he "woke up" with 1 mg.

The second patient was known to have a high tolerance to narcs and received large doses of morphine during his surgery and when he returned, was also starting to show signs of respiratory depression. Because of his history, we gave him 2 mg IV and he came roaring back as well and was shouting and angry.

These two experiences as well as the statement from the EMT at the scene (with Prince) who stated most folks who are fairly heavy users of opiates normally respond to 2mg caught my attention.

After my experience with 1-2 mg of IV Narcan, the fact that Prince required 4 mg IV at his 112 lb weight startled me.

[Edited 8/5/18 7:02am]

[Edited 8/5/18 7:04am]

OperatingThetan said:

Agreed. The problem arises because, with all due respect, many of these posters only joined prince.org after Prince's death and were only very casual fans prior to that, if at all. They simply lack awareness of his character and history. For example, nobody who actually saw Prince live at a venue (not recordings or TV appearances on YouTube) and then performing non-obligatory extended aftershows would give any credence to the allegation that Prince suffered from 'stage fright'. Someone simply doesn't play unnecessarily for hours at 2am to small crowds in nightclubs (and often with a very reasonable cover price) if they're anxious about performing. It's not as if cash was a major influence either - in London in 2014 he played several small clubs for just £10. I was fortunate enough to have been at two of those (including the Shepherd's Bush show) and it's likely he barely broke even in terms of costs. And that's not even considering the number of times he opened his home for shows at short notice, when he had nothing to promote whatsoever.

No, the problem arises when old posters get pissed because new posters post what they don't like. If you don't like what a poster writes, you look at their join date and then 1. Accuse them of not being a hardcore fan. 2. Accuse them of having double accounts.

But if you agree with a poster such as Benni, you don't say anything about her join date of 04/17.

Get over what Dr. D said about the stagefright, stagefright or not, Prince died because he took a counterfeit pill. Associates have even came forward and said he was on pills, he had a pill problem. It's in the documents, read them.

benni said:

PennyPurple said:

...And there wouldn't be a fentanyl problem, had he obtained the legal pills with a legal script.

Penny, I know you have a hard time understanding why he didn't go to the doctor for his pain management, if that was what was going on with him. I've tried to explain why people don't always go that route. It could be that he didn't trust doctors, felt like he didn't have time to go to a doctor, or even have a doctor recommend physical therapy and Prince felt like he didn't have time for that so it was a waste of time to go back to a doctor.

It is harder and harder for patients with pain to get prescriptions to pain medications. If you go to the ER, many times they see you as "drug seeking" and will tell you to follow up with your regular doctor. Prince did not keep "regular doctor hours". And he would often go on tour and be gone for a long period of time, going from city to city, country to country. A regular doctor is not going to just call you in a prescription of narcotics without seeing you, legally they can't do that, and it wasn't always feasible for Prince to hop a plane and fly back to Minne to see his doctor when he would have back to back concerts scheduled. It's probably one of the reasons M.J. had a doctor on staff. So, if Prince were on tour, he'd have to see the venue doctors. Many doctors are not going to prescribe opioids if they cannot follow up with you, or if they don't know if you are going to follow up with your regular physician. For Prince, the easiest route would have been just to get his bandmembers or others in his camp, to get medicine from their doctors, because they had regular doctors, or to order what he needed online, or find some other means to get it. Prince was a stubborn man who always had to be in control and always felt like he knew best. Even when he finallly saw Dr. S it was afterhours and Dr. S had to open his office just for Prince.

I hadn't thought about that before, how difficult it would be for a star to go see a doctor during regular hours. In L.A., I'm sure there are doctors that make a habit of having after hours reserved for their star clientele, or that strictly work with stars. In Minneapolis, not so much.

And you've mentioned, "A normal person would go to the doctor if they are in pain." Prince wasn't a normal person. I mean, he told his personal assistant to get him a camel for a video shoot in the middle of the night. He didn't understand why that would be impossible at that time of night.

Benni, he had the means to have a Dr with him 24/7.

peggyon said:

I wanted to talk about my experience with IV Narcan. I have given IV Narcan as an ICU nurse twice. Both doses were in 1 mg vials.

We had recently extubated a patient (removed his breathing tube) and he became very drowsy and his resp rate started to decline, so in order to avoid re-intubation, we gave 1 mg of IV Nacan. I will never forget how after it was given, he lurched off the bed, his heart rate was over 100 and he acutally sustained an MI (heart attack). Scared me to death how quickly he "woke up" with 1 mg.

The second patient was known to have a high tolerance to narcs and received large doses of morphine during his surgery and when he returned, was also starting to show signs of respiratory depression. Because of his history, we gave him 2 mg IV and he came roaring back as well and was shouting and angry.

These two experiences as well as the statement from the EMT at the scene (with Prince) who stated most folks who are fairly heavy users of opiates normally respond to 2mg caught my attention.

After my experience with 1-2 mg of IV Narcan, the fact that Prince required 4 mg IV at his 112 lb weight startled me.

[Edited 8/5/18 7:02am]

[Edited 8/5/18 7:04am]

Thank you Peggy. The 2 shots of Narcan seems unusual for just a 'casual' user.

SkipperLove said:

They don't look like fentanyl suckers. In his defense when he licked his hand during the Montreux concert, he had a cut on his hand..its there if you look really close. If he played that well while he was high, WOW.

muchtoofast said:

onlyforaminute said: I’m befuddled like everyone else. I can’t figure out why he didn’t just take the Percocets. I am convinced he did not know there was any fentanyl in those fake Vicodins. I can’t remember what other drugs were in his system when he died so I’m going to look it up. I also think those suckers he ate in the nineties might have been fentanyl suckers. I also think that time we saw him lick his hand during a concert was suspect, it was just plain weird. Had he rubbed a fentanyl patch on his hand so he could lick it later? So questions remain for me too.

Pretty sure he did not take the Percocets (acutally Oxycodone) as he wanted something stronger.

He may not have known (fake Vicodins) were Fentanyl but he knew they were stronger. (I think he knew though)

benni said:

lemoncrush19 said:

neither do I cuz it wasn't such a big deal to get a mountain lion at that time of night.

In Minneapolis?

yep! the same night. read steve parke's book

peggyon said:

I wanted to talk about my experience with IV Narcan. I have given IV Narcan as an ICU nurse twice. Both doses were in 1 mg vials.

We had recently extubated a patient (removed his breathing tube) and he became very drowsy and his resp rate started to decline, so in order to avoid re-intubation, we gave 1 mg of IV Nacan. I will never forget how after it was given, he lurched off the bed, his heart rate was over 100 and he acutally sustained an MI (heart attack). Scared me to death how quickly he "woke up" with 1 mg.

The second patient was known to have a high tolerance to narcs and received large doses of morphine during his surgery and when he returned, was also starting to show signs of respiratory depression. Because of his history, we gave him 2 mg IV and he came roaring back as well and was shouting and angry.

These two experiences as well as the statement from the EMT at the scene (with Prince) who stated most folks who are fairly heavy users of opiates normally respond to 2mg caught my attention.

After my experience with 1-2 mg of IV Narcan, the fact that Prince required 4 mg IV at his 112 lb weight startled me.

[Edited 8/5/18 7:02am]

[Edited 8/5/18 7:04am]

What was the first person OD'ing on?

Morphine's half life is between 2 to 4 hours, as a tablet depending upon the dosage. Given as an IV, such as you would see in surgery, is an hour and a half to 3 hours. Therefore, 2 mgs wouldn't be out of ordinary.

Vicodin's half life is approximately 4 to 5 hours.

Percocet's half life is estimated to be between 3.5 to 5 hours.

Lower dosages required for Morphine then makes sense.

PennyPurple said:

benni said:

Penny, I know you have a hard time understanding why he didn't go to the doctor for his pain management, if that was what was going on with him. I've tried to explain why people don't always go that route. It could be that he didn't trust doctors, felt like he didn't have time to go to a doctor, or even have a doctor recommend physical therapy and Prince felt like he didn't have time for that so it was a waste of time to go back to a doctor.

It is harder and harder for patients with pain to get prescriptions to pain medications. If you go to the ER, many times they see you as "drug seeking" and will tell you to follow up with your regular doctor. Prince did not keep "regular doctor hours". And he would often go on tour and be gone for a long period of time, going from city to city, country to country. A regular doctor is not going to just call you in a prescription of narcotics without seeing you, legally they can't do that, and it wasn't always feasible for Prince to hop a plane and fly back to Minne to see his doctor when he would have back to back concerts scheduled. It's probably one of the reasons M.J. had a doctor on staff. So, if Prince were on tour, he'd have to see the venue doctors. Many doctors are not going to prescribe opioids if they cannot follow up with you, or if they don't know if you are going to follow up with your regular physician. For Prince, the easiest route would have been just to get his bandmembers or others in his camp, to get medicine from their doctors, because they had regular doctors, or to order what he needed online, or find some other means to get it. Prince was a stubborn man who always had to be in control and always felt like he knew best. Even when he finallly saw Dr. S it was afterhours and Dr. S had to open his office just for Prince.

I hadn't thought about that before, how difficult it would be for a star to go see a doctor during regular hours. In L.A., I'm sure there are doctors that make a habit of having after hours reserved for their star clientele, or that strictly work with stars. In Minneapolis, not so much.

And you've mentioned, "A normal person would go to the doctor if they are in pain." Prince wasn't a normal person. I mean, he told his personal assistant to get him a camel for a video shoot in the middle of the night. He didn't understand why that would be impossible at that time of night.

Benni, he had the means to have a Dr with him 24/7.

He did have the means to have one with him 24/7, but given how private Prince was, how much he valued that privacy, do you honestly think he would pay to have a doctor with him 24/7?

PennyPurple said:

PennyPurple said:

OperatingThetan said:

Agreed. The problem arises because, with all due respect, many of these posters only joined prince.org after Prince's death and were only very casual fans prior to that, if at all. They simply lack awareness of his character and history. For example, nobody who actually saw Prince live at a venue (not recordings or TV appearances on YouTube) and then performing non-obligatory extended aftershows would give any credence to the allegation that Prince suffered from 'stage fright'. Someone simply doesn't play unnecessarily for hours at 2am to small crowds in nightclubs (and often with a very reasonable cover price) if they're anxious about performing. It's not as if cash was a major influence either - in London in 2014 he played several small clubs for just £10. I was fortunate enough to have been at two of those (including the Shepherd's Bush show) and it's likely he barely broke even in terms of costs. And that's not even considering the number of times he opened his home for shows at short notice, when he had nothing to promote whatsoever.

No, the problem arises when old posters get pissed because new posters post what they don't like. If you don't like what a poster writes, you look at their join date and then 1. Accuse them of not being a hardcore fan. 2. Accuse them of having double accounts.

But if you agree with a poster such as Benni, you don't say anything about her join date of 04/17.

Get over what Dr. D said about the stagefright, stagefright or not, Prince died because he took a counterfeit pill. Associates have even came forward and said he was on pills, he had a pill problem. It's in the documents, read them.

That's because I've been here since 1998, had left for a short time, came back as InfiniteHeaven, then left again, and came back again. People have been seeing me around along time.

paulludvig said:

PennyPurple said:

Benni, he had the means to have a Dr with him 24/7.

Not sure he did. He didn't have unlimited funds.

He had almost 1 million $$ in gold bars. When he wanted petty cash he asked for 60,000 $$$. There was cash laying all over PP.

lemoncrush19 said:

benni said:

In Minneapolis?

yep! the same night. read steve parke's book

LOL - so why couldn't his assistant get him a camel in the middle of the night???

(And I'm ashamed to admit, I haven't read Parke's book.)

PennyPurple said:

benni said:

PennyPurple said:

No, the problem arises when old posters get pissed because new posters post what they don't like. If you don't like what a poster writes, you look at their join date and then 1. Accuse them of not being a hardcore fan. 2. Accuse them of having double accounts.

But if you agree with a poster such as Benni, you don't say anything about her join date of 04/17.

Get over what Dr. D said about the stagefright, stagefright or not, Prince died because he took a counterfeit pill. Associates have even came forward and said he was on pills, he had a pill problem. It's in the documents, read them.

That's because I've been here since 1998, had left for a short time, came back as InfiniteHeaven, then left again, and came back again. People have been seeing me around along time.

Sorry benni, didn't mean to throw you into the mix, but it was just an example of how he looks at peoples start dates.

PennyPurple said:

paulludvig said:

PennyPurple said: Not sure he did. He didn't have unlimited funds.

He had almost 1 million $$ in gold bars. When he wanted petty cash he asked for 60,000 $$$. There was cash laying all over PP.

The average salary of a doctor (in the US) is $141,000 annually. That is one that works in a hospital or has their own clinic. They get time off, aren't always on call. Imagine the cost of a doctor that is around 24/7 and always on call.

paulludvig said:

PennyPurple said:

He had almost 1 million $$ in gold bars. When he wanted petty cash he asked for 60,000 $$$. There was cash laying all over PP.

And what is the annual salary of a doctor?

I don't know Paul. Look it up.

PennyPurple said:

benni said:

That's because I've been here since 1998, had left for a short time, came back as InfiniteHeaven, then left again, and came back again. People have been seeing me around along time.

Sorry benni, didn't mean to throw you into the mix, but it was just an example of how he looks at peoples start dates.

Not a problem Penny! I understood what you were pointing, but wasn't sure if you thought I had just showed up on that date, and just wanted to state I've been here for a while.

PennyPurple said:

paulludvig said:

PennyPurple said: And what is the annual salary of a doctor?

I don't know Paul. Look it up.

Michael Jackson's lawyer made $300,000 for TWO month! I went into the wrong field!!!


An AEG finance executive Thursday verified a 2009 company budget that allotted $300,000 to be paid to Dr. Conrad Murray for two months of caring for Michael Jackson.

Julie Hollander, vice president/controller of event operations for AEG Live, testified in the wrongful death trial that Murray’s salary of $150,000 each for the months of May and June that year was included in a budget approved by executive Paul Gongaware.

benni said:

PennyPurple said:

I don't know Paul. Look it up.

Michael Jackson's lawyer made $300,000 for TWO month! I went into the wrong field!!!


An AEG finance executive Thursday verified a 2009 company budget that allotted $300,000 to be paid to Dr. Conrad Murray for two months of caring for Michael Jackson.

Julie Hollander, vice president/controller of event operations for AEG Live, testified in the wrongful death trial that Murray’s salary of $150,000 each for the months of May and June that year was included in a budget approved by executive Paul Gongaware.

Yeah, he was lucky and AEG paid for his Dr.. MJ was more needy then Prince.

PennyPurple said: