PennyPurple said:

onlyforaminute said:

PennyPurple said: Smart move but if he's taking it because of stage fright given his work schedule being on stage so much, and a drug dealer claiming he knows he died of fentanyl overdose because he had been supplying him for years starting back in the 80s. Reading the literature knowing one becomes addicted in just a couple of weeks on opioids. Knowing he was having issues with just taking anything with a far lesser strength in later years. Knowing that the pills found in his possession were marked as Vicodin, Knowing addicts don't increase their addiction going towards weaker drugs. Knowing that fentanyl is the very top of the opioid chain. Then the idea that Prince got addicted to fentanyl in his 20s yet switched to illegal Hydro later, taking everything into consideration, is just plan dumb.

See I don't think he was addicted for 30 years. I think he used on and off for years. I think he has used since his hip surgery. One does become tolerant to the drugs, no matter what your size or weight is. After 6 years of being on the codone I feel he moved up to the morphone and onto the fentanyl.

Where are you getting that he switched to a weaker drug? The results show if anything he switched to a stronger drug. I didn't see anything in the paperwork if they found any of the pills had the morphone in them, but his UA from Dr. S office the day before had codene and morphone in it.

Penny, I don't see anything that would show he switched to fentanyl either. DEA, LE, all are saying that the fentanyl is being added to these pills without the seller or buyer knowing that it's being cut with fentanyl. I think he purchased what he thought was Vicodin, knew they were stronger than the Percocets and kept them separated. He may have used the Vicodin only if the Percs didn't help. It's also possible that he thought he had taken a combination of drugs on the plane, maybe he took both the Percs and Vidodins, and maybe something to help him relax after performing two shows back to back, and he thought it was all of those combined that caused the incident on the plane, not realizing that it was actually just the one pill that had fentanyl in it. That's why he thought he was safe just taking the vicodin a week later, it wasn't the combination of drugs that he thought causes the previous episode. Yes, the other drugs were in his system, but what is their half life? Could he have taken them earlier in the night and they weren't helping, and that's why he thought that after a few hours he would be safe to take the vicodin and wouldn't have a repeat of the plane incident?

PennyPurple said:

In March 2017, investigators sent 64.5 counterfeit Vicodin pills Prince stored in a Bayer aspirin bottle to the DEA's Chicago lab for testing. The DEA wanted to see if the illicit pills matched samples seized elsewhere around the country.

Kenneth Solek, assistant special agent in charge of the DEA's Twin Cities division, said Friday that the DEA looked for clues like binding and coloring agents or unique marks left behind by pill presses. DEA scientists also tried to find chemical impurities to see if they matched the "signature" of other seized pills, Solek said.

According to Carver County investigative records, a DEA investigator reported that Prince's death was the only one traced by the agency to a fentanyl pill in Minnesota in 2016. That year, fentanyl-related deaths in the state exceeded 100 for the first time, but investigators found most cases involved powdered fentanyl laced into other drugs like heroin or cocaine.

By July 2017, the DEA reported that it could not turn up any pills tested in its database with a similar composition to the ones found at Paisley Park. Authorities weren't surprised because "they are seeing these types of pills being mixed with whatever is around or whatever is easily available," a Carver County detective wrote.

www.startribune.com/those...480428763/

Which increases the thought, that the drugs were coming from out of state. Who was close and from out of state?

onlyforaminute said:

And IF he had never been born he wouldn’t have died of an overdose. If you had written him a letter and convinced him not to take the pills he wouldn’t have died so it’s really your fault he died. No no no The reason he died is because of the high dose of fentanyl.

PennyPurple said:

It's still ass backwards to get addicted to the most powerful opioid there is, yet able to find the necessary relief as an addict from one of the weakest opioids there is. Where's the literature for that? Personally I think that's why he took his counterfeits and died. If he had been taking mildly laced fentanyl pills for a few weeks, a few months then he was getting amazing pain relief while getting hooked unknowingly to this stronger opioid. The withdrawals would have been the worse he'd ever experienced in his life because NOW he's addicted to the most powerful opioid there is. Of course the stuff KJ got him wouldn't do the trick in taking the edge off. His body wanted fentanyl, he's craving the stuff he's been taking. I think that's a pretty valid speculation when everything is considered. Which is why I think the family wants to sue the hospital because if they'd have actually tested the pill the mystery of why he was going through this kind of withdrawal would have been answered. He'd of been in a shitload of legal trouble but he might be alive.

onlyforaminute said:

PennyPurple said:

In March 2017, investigators sent 64.5 counterfeit Vicodin pills Prince stored in a Bayer aspirin bottle to the DEA's Chicago lab for testing. The DEA wanted to see if the illicit pills matched samples seized elsewhere around the country.

Kenneth Solek, assistant special agent in charge of the DEA's Twin Cities division, said Friday that the DEA looked for clues like binding and coloring agents or unique marks left behind by pill presses. DEA scientists also tried to find chemical impurities to see if they matched the "signature" of other seized pills, Solek said.

According to Carver County investigative records, a DEA investigator reported that Prince's death was the only one traced by the agency to a fentanyl pill in Minnesota in 2016. That year, fentanyl-related deaths in the state exceeded 100 for the first time, but investigators found most cases involved powdered fentanyl laced into other drugs like heroin or cocaine.

By July 2017, the DEA reported that it could not turn up any pills tested in its database with a similar composition to the ones found at Paisley Park. Authorities weren't surprised because "they are seeing these types of pills being mixed with whatever is around or whatever is easily available," a Carver County detective wrote.

www.startribune.com/those...480428763/

I wonder why the authorities weren't surprised? Is it common for them to come across counterfeit pills that don't match what's in the database? Seems to me they would be surprised if it was rare for pills found don't match others in their database. Loads of questions.

Yes, loads of questions of which we are trying to find answers.

benni said:

Yes thank you, this helps me understand better.

PennyPurple said:

Im not knocking the the search.

Rev said:

PennyPurple said:

In March 2017, investigators sent 64.5 counterfeit Vicodin pills Prince stored in a Bayer aspirin bottle to the DEA's Chicago lab for testing. The DEA wanted to see if the illicit pills matched samples seized elsewhere around the country.

Kenneth Solek, assistant special agent in charge of the DEA's Twin Cities division, said Friday that the DEA looked for clues like binding and coloring agents or unique marks left behind by pill presses. DEA scientists also tried to find chemical impurities to see if they matched the "signature" of other seized pills, Solek said.

According to Carver County investigative records, a DEA investigator reported that Prince's death was the only one traced by the agency to a fentanyl pill in Minnesota in 2016. That year, fentanyl-related deaths in the state exceeded 100 for the first time, but investigators found most cases involved powdered fentanyl laced into other drugs like heroin or cocaine.

By July 2017, the DEA reported that it could not turn up any pills tested in its database with a similar composition to the ones found at Paisley Park. Authorities weren't surprised because "they are seeing these types of pills being mixed with whatever is around or whatever is easily available," a Carver County detective wrote.

www.startribune.com/those...480428763/

Which increases the thought, that the drugs were coming from out of state. Who was close and from out of state?

Well with the DEA release this week they were checking the packages that were received at The Inn, so they were looking at they were coming from somewhere.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

And if he had taken a normal dose of fentanyl *oh wait someone accidentally put too much fentanyl in those pills dang* he might still be alive.

muchtoofast said:

onlyforaminute said:

Well I think if Prince wasn't having a drug abuse problem he'd have had no problem seeing a physician, getting a prescription and going to any number of certified pharmacies spread out all over the world. We got pictures of him at Walgreens I think we can assume he knew where one was. Those pills were stamped as Vicodin the most commonly prescribed opioid in America. Not that hard to access especially for a pretty freakin rich superstar. If you drive your car full speed down the opposite direction on the freeway your chances of having an accident increase many many times. One may not know they're driving on the wrong side but it doesn't change the stats of total destruction. I think that's what his core fans are grappling with. I am. WTF.

And IF he had never been born he wouldn’t have died of an overdose. If you had written him a letter and convinced him not to take the pills he wouldn’t have died so it’s really your fault he died. No no no The reason he died is because of the high dose of fentanyl.

...And there wouldn't be a fentanyl problem, had he obtained the legal pills with a legal script.

muchtoofast said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Its not irrelevant.

His autopsy showed Oxy (Perc's) and Hydro (Vicodin) in his urine. Which means P took these pills and they were not doing the job for him = Tolerance level.

So then Prince went to the Bayer bottle which contained the stronger Fentanyl to take because he knew they were stronger than the Oxy and Hydro.

Or... Prince took the pills from the Bayer bottle because he knew it would end his life.

[Edited 8/4/18 20:40pm]

And if he had taken a normal dose of fentanyl *oh wait someone accidentally put too much fentanyl in those pills dang* he might still be alive.

Unfortunately, he was relying on the " integrity"

of counterfeit drug-makers. He was playing Russian Roulette at this point

[Edited 8/4/18 22:24pm]

PennyPurple said:

You can’t keep on with the IF IF IF IF IF, it’s pointless. If he knew he really needed fentanyl why the hell the need to disguise them as Vicodin???

onlyforaminute said:

PennyPurple said:

See I don't think he was addicted for 30 years. I think he used on and off for years. I think he has used since his hip surgery. One does become tolerant to the drugs, no matter what your size or weight is. After 6 years of being on the codone I feel he moved up to the morphone and onto the fentanyl.

Where are you getting that he switched to a weaker drug? The results show if anything he switched to a stronger drug. I didn't see anything in the paperwork if they found any of the pills had the morphone in them, but his UA from Dr. S office the day before had codene and morphone in it.

It's still ass backwards to get addicted to the most powerful opioid there is, yet able to find the necessary relief as an addict from one of the weakest opioids there is. Where's the literature for that? Personally I think that's why he took his counterfeits and died. If he had been taking mildly laced fentanyl pills for a few weeks, a few months then he was getting amazing pain relief while getting hooked unknowingly to this stronger opioid. The withdrawals would have been the worse he'd ever experienced in his life because NOW he's addicted to the most powerful opioid there is. Of course the stuff KJ got him wouldn't do the trick in taking the edge off. His body wanted fentanyl, he's craving the stuff he's been taking. I think that's a pretty valid speculation when everything is considered. Which is why I think the family wants to sue the hospital because if they'd have actually tested the pill the mystery of why he was going through this kind of withdrawal would have been answered. He'd of been in a shitload of legal trouble but he might be alive.

Then you take Moline in consideration, and the 2 Narcan shots sent him reeling.

As far as the family suing, it's not the hospital's fault. He wouldn't allow them to do anything. He left against their advice.

If I get these details wrong, let me know...

Kirk took the Bayer bottle out into the hallway with the doctor and told her that the overdose might have resulted from those pills. The pills were then taken to a pharmacist for identification. The pharmacist had the pills in his hands, right? Prince couldn't leave right away due to the next plane being unavailable. How many hours was he there?? I can't recall. But I know it was longer than a couple hours. The pharmacist, if he had been given the info about the 2 narcan shots, should have known that hydrocodone could not have caused that kind vof overdose. He looks at the engraving and misindentifies it as hydro. Either he was told and didn't bother or didn't have time to test it further (something he should have mentioned) OR he wasn't told any details and he just took a quick glance. But it was a pretty silly way to identify a pill strong enough to require two narcan shots to revive/save a man's life. I don't know if they can sue but something seemed a bit lazy or unprofesional about that element of his treatment. As for the pharmacy (Walgreens) that lawsuit seems completely pointless.

PennyPurple said:

onlyforaminute said:

PennyPurple said: It's still ass backwards to get addicted to the most powerful opioid there is, yet able to find the necessary relief as an addict from one of the weakest opioids there is. Where's the literature for that? Personally I think that's why he took his counterfeits and died. If he had been taking mildly laced fentanyl pills for a few weeks, a few months then he was getting amazing pain relief while getting hooked unknowingly to this stronger opioid. The withdrawals would have been the worse he'd ever experienced in his life because NOW he's addicted to the most powerful opioid there is. Of course the stuff KJ got him wouldn't do the trick in taking the edge off. His body wanted fentanyl, he's craving the stuff he's been taking. I think that's a pretty valid speculation when everything is considered. Which is why I think the family wants to sue the hospital because if they'd have actually tested the pill the mystery of why he was going through this kind of withdrawal would have been answered. He'd of been in a shitload of legal trouble but he might be alive.

Then you take Moline in consideration, and the 2 Narcan shots sent him reeling.

As far as the family suing, it's not the hospital's fault. He wouldn't allow them to do anything. He left against their advice.

PennyPurple said:

I've read reports that all Narcan does is keep one breathing until the opioid naturally flushes the system . I've read reports Narcan flushes all the opioid out your system in one swoop. beats me. The chefs said hed been having stomach problems since Feb. that was long before the Narcan shot. He seemed to have lost quite a few pounds. Mani was shocked at his final weight. Mayte even had him at 7lbs heavier. Hard to lose THAT much weight in 6 days.

:shrug: I'm just spectating at this point and curious what the court rules.

I hate to bring up the imfamous Dr. D again. But when asked about this factor in a second interview, he speculated that Prince knew there was fentanyl in the pills but wasn't used to taking it in a pill form. So, he may not have known its potency. Is it possible that Prince knew it had some fentanyl but was still surprised about its strength. He wanted to hide what he was taking but for a brief moment thought he should inform Kirk due to the fact that he was surprised at its strength. Maybe for a brief moment, he thought "Damn, how much fentanyl is in that stuff? Kirk took it in the hallway but results came back as hydrocodone. Prince thought "Well, I guess I will never find out." He then eases off or stops using the stronger pills for a while but the night of his death, says to himself "Screw it. I am taking it anyway. Who cares what happens?" However, that still doesn't explain the fact that P had no pills in his stomach (only fentanyl). If he was drinking some kind of substance or dissolving in liquid, he didn't care anymore about its potency on the 21st. I don't know -- maybe the stain that Kirk was cleaning up was a fentanly laced drink that Prince was consuming. Maybe, they thought an accidental pill mistake would look better than an intentional fentanyl drink. Going back to my hiding a suicide theory. But then again, why hide it from family? Who knows? Maybe, they are suing not because of what Prince knew or didn't know but because his staff not having proof of what he was consuming made it harder for them to figure out the urgency for immediate help.

muchtoofast said:

PennyPurple said:

...And there wouldn't be a fentanyl problem, had he obtained the legal pills with a legal script.

You can’t keep on with the IF IF IF IF IF, it’s pointless. If he knew he really needed fentanyl why the hell the need to disguise them as Vicodin???

SkipperLove said:

I hate to bring up the imfamous Dr. D again. But when asked about this factor in a second interview, he speculated that Prince knew there was fentanyl in the pills but wasn't used to taking it in a pill form. So, he may not have known its potency. Is it possible that Prince knew it had some fentanyl but was still surprised about its strength. He wanted to hide what he was taking but for a brief moment thought he should inform Kirk due to the fact that he was surprised at its strength. Maybe for a brief moment, he thought "Damn, how much fentanyl is in that stuff? Kirk took it in the hallway but results came back as hydrocodone. Prince thought "Well, I guess I will never find out." He then eases off or stops using the stronger pills for a while but the night of his death, says to himself "Screw it. I am taking it anyway. Who cares what happens?" However, that still doesn't explain the fact that P had no pills in his stomach (only fentanyl). If he was drinking some kind of substance or dissolving in liquid, he didn't care anymore about its potency on the 21st. I don't know -- maybe the stain that Kirk was cleaning up was a fentanly laced drink that Prince was consuming. Maybe, they thought an accidental pill mistake would look better than an intentional fentanyl drink. Going back to my hiding a suicide theory. But then again, why hide it from family? Who knows? Maybe, they are suing not because of what Prince knew or didn't know but because his staff not having proof of what he was consuming made it harder for them to figure out the urgency for immediate help.

No, the ME said the stomach contents revealed that it was consumed in pill form.

SkipperLove said:

You can’t go in on the hospital like this unless you also add “Prince should not have been taking illicit drugs” and He KNEW they were illicit.

onlyforaminute said:

PennyPurple said:

Then you take Moline in consideration, and the 2 Narcan shots sent him reeling.

As far as the family suing, it's not the hospital's fault. He wouldn't allow them to do anything. He left against their advice.

I've read reports that all Narcan does is keep one breathing until the opioid naturally flushes the system . I've read reports Narcan flushes all the opioid out your system in one swoop. beats me. The chefs said hed been having stomach problems since Feb. that was long before the Narcan shot. He seemed to have lost quite a few pounds. Mani was shocked at his final weight. Mayte even had him at 7lbs heavier. Hard to lose THAT much weight in 6 days. I'm just spectating at this point and curious what the court rules.

I thought I seen where the hospital said his weight was 117 but the autopsy report showed 112. That would be about a loss of 1 pound a day.

If he was taking hydrocodone that was as strong as fentanyl, why the need for Percocet? Which I believe is stronger than hydrocodone. Why get counterfit hydrocodone if he could get prescription percocet?? I speculate that he knew he was taking some stronger stuff (a cocktail) but wanted to soften it with percocet. Or maybe Kirk knew he was taking some counterfit stuff and got P to agree to take prescription percocet instead not knowing exactly what was in the stronger counterfit stuff and thinking that if he got percocet, P would get rid of the stronger illicit stuff.

muchtoofast said:

PennyPurple said:

...And there wouldn't be a fentanyl problem, had he obtained the legal pills with a legal script.

You can’t keep on with the IF IF IF IF IF, it’s pointless. If he knew he really needed fentanyl why the hell the need to disguise them as Vicodin???

SkipperLove said:

I would love to read that second interview, do you have a link?

I thought they said that all they could to determine was that he consumed the drug. I thought that they were looking at his eyeddrops and enemas because they literally could not find pills in his stomach...only the drug was in his stomach. Did I imagine reading that on here? Its CONFUSING.

PennyPurple said:

SkipperLove said:

I hate to bring up the imfamous Dr. D again. But when asked about this factor in a second interview, he speculated that Prince knew there was fentanyl in the pills but wasn't used to taking it in a pill form. So, he may not have known its potency. Is it possible that Prince knew it had some fentanyl but was still surprised about its strength. He wanted to hide what he was taking but for a brief moment thought he should inform Kirk due to the fact that he was surprised at its strength. Maybe for a brief moment, he thought "Damn, how much fentanyl is in that stuff? Kirk took it in the hallway but results came back as hydrocodone. Prince thought "Well, I guess I will never find out." He then eases off or stops using the stronger pills for a while but the night of his death, says to himself "Screw it. I am taking it anyway. Who cares what happens?" However, that still doesn't explain the fact that P had no pills in his stomach (only fentanyl). If he was drinking some kind of substance or dissolving in liquid, he didn't care anymore about its potency on the 21st. I don't know -- maybe the stain that Kirk was cleaning up was a fentanly laced drink that Prince was consuming. Maybe, they thought an accidental pill mistake would look better than an intentional fentanyl drink. Going back to my hiding a suicide theory. But then again, why hide it from family? Who knows? Maybe, they are suing not because of what Prince knew or didn't know but because his staff not having proof of what he was consuming made it harder for them to figure out the urgency for immediate help.

No, the ME said the stomach contents revealed that it was consumed in pill form.

http://www.dailymail.co.u...d-him.html

muchtoofast said:

SkipperLove said:

I hate to bring up the imfamous Dr. D again. But when asked about this factor in a second interview, he speculated that Prince knew there was fentanyl in the pills but wasn't used to taking it in a pill form. So, he may not have known its potency. Is it possible that Prince knew it had some fentanyl but was still surprised about its strength. He wanted to hide what he was taking but for a brief moment thought he should inform Kirk due to the fact that he was surprised at its strength. Maybe for a brief moment, he thought "Damn, how much fentanyl is in that stuff? Kirk took it in the hallway but results came back as hydrocodone. Prince thought "Well, I guess I will never find out." He then eases off or stops using the stronger pills for a while but the night of his death, says to himself "Screw it. I am taking it anyway. Who cares what happens?" However, that still doesn't explain the fact that P had no pills in his stomach (only fentanyl). If he was drinking some kind of substance or dissolving in liquid, he didn't care anymore about its potency on the 21st. I don't know -- maybe the stain that Kirk was cleaning up was a fentanly laced drink that Prince was consuming. Maybe, they thought an accidental pill mistake would look better than an intentional fentanyl drink. Going back to my hiding a suicide theory. But then again, why hide it from family? Who knows? Maybe, they are suing not because of what Prince knew or didn't know but because his staff not having proof of what he was consuming made it harder for them to figure out the urgency for immediate help.

I would love to read that second interview, do you have a link?

Didn't the hospital state that he was 5'4 and 56 years old. It seems like they got a lot wrong.

PennyPurple said:

onlyforaminute said:

PennyPurple said: I've read reports that all Narcan does is keep one breathing until the opioid naturally flushes the system . I've read reports Narcan flushes all the opioid out your system in one swoop. beats me. The chefs said hed been having stomach problems since Feb. that was long before the Narcan shot. He seemed to have lost quite a few pounds. Mani was shocked at his final weight. Mayte even had him at 7lbs heavier. Hard to lose THAT much weight in 6 days. I'm just spectating at this point and curious what the court rules.

I thought I seen where the hospital said his weight was 117 but the autopsy report showed 112. That would be about a loss of 1 pound a day.

muchtoofast said:

LOL well if he hadn't been born we sure as heck wouldn't be sitting up in here this moment. I'm accepting he had addiction issues, others don't. Personally I can't wrap my head around counterfeit pills without accepting a problem. I'm mad at him as I work it through but I'm in too deep to ever walk away. So I'm going leave you to yours and hopefully you'll leave me to mine.

onlyforaminute said:

Sure I will unless I want to make a comment then I’ll make a comment.

muchtoofast said:

Fair enough

I don't know why but I have never been one to be angry at addicts. I don't have any in my famiy. I have alcoholics in my family. We all have our vices and insecurities and coping mechanisms. They don't define us though.

onlyforaminute said:

muchtoofast said:

And IF he had never been born he wouldn’t have died of an overdose. If you had written him a letter and convinced him not to take the pills he wouldn’t have died so it’s really your fault he died. No no no The reason he died is because of the high dose of fentanyl.

LOL well if he hadn't been born we sure as heck wouldn't be sitting up in here this moment. I'm accepting he had addiction issues, others don't. Personally I can't wrap my head around counterfeit pills without accepting a problem. I'm mad at him as I work it through but I'm in too deep to ever walk away. So I'm going leave you to yours and hopefully you'll leave me to mine.

I'd have to go back and check Skipper, I believe that the fentanyl count was so high in either the blood or the liver, that they thought it might have been because of a liquid or spray, but when they got the stomach contents back, it was def in pill form.

SkipperLove said:

I thought they said that all they could to determine was that he consumed the drug. I thought that they were looking at his eyeddrops and enemas because they literally could not find pills in his stomach...only the drug was in his stomach. Did I imagine reading that on here? Its CONFUSING.

PennyPurple said:

No, the ME said the stomach contents revealed that it was consumed in pill form.

onlyforaminute said:

I’m befuddled like everyone else. I can’t figure out why he didn’t just take the Percocets. I am convinced he did not know there was any fentanyl in those fake Vicodins. I can’t remember what other drugs were in his system when he died so I’m going to look it up. I also think those suckers he ate in the nineties might have been fentanyl suckers. I also think that time we saw him lick his hand during a concert was suspect, it was just plain weird. Had he rubbed a fentanyl patch on his hand so he could lick it later? So questions remain for me too.