peggyon said:

The files are not the only thing being discussed. Everything involvkng bis death is. The experts in the investigation have even said that they believe Prince unknowingly ingested fentanyl laced pills but that is not what is being reflected around here on his fansite. Its really kind of interesting how people's mind works. I'm acclimating.

onlyforaminute said:

SkipperLove said:

We (for once...LOL) are in agreement here. I think it was both planned and the result of nervousness. I am starting to think more and more that P's public eccentricity was really just nervousness in disguise. Dez and Andre said it was planned. But others who knew Prince said that Prince told them it was nervousness. Ruth Arzate and Morris Hayes both said they discovered over time that some of Prince's OCD-like behavior and brooding distance before performances was really just nervousness before going out on stage. Stage fright comes and goes for people. I imagine some performances were nerve-free and other ones were completely nerve racking. After shows are casual, unfilmed and not obligatory--so therfore probably less stressful.

But I am sure things like the superbowl or natural broadcasts were a bit more stressful.

In the early days, Prince made the decision to be shocking on stage, this would take courage so I am sure he (like most human beings doing something outrageous and shocking in public) got nervous.

We can't ignore the fact that some of his early managers and contributors described a really skittish young man in the mid 1970's. I remember his music teacher stating that he was shocked that the flamboyant, sexually provokative extrovert he saw on stage was the same introverted kid he knew in high school. I reckon that his nerves decreased eventually but never entirely went away.

I kind of had hopes for you but naw nevermind. If getting nervous is your evidence that Dr. D is some legit source then your hopeless. A 130 pound Prince couldn't have been self dosing on fentanyl back in the 80s due to stage fright. But keeps overdosing on weaker hydro in the 90s. I really can't wait to see how this gets twisted around to insist that Dr D is a legit source. Especially given the countless interviews from all kinds of celebrities who say they get nervous. They all must be popping fentanyl to fix it. It's hilarious. [Edited 8/4/18 13:59pm]

Maybe you can help?...What do you think he overdosed on in 1996 (likley not aspirin and wine),

2011 and 2013?

peggyon said:

Hydrocodone.

There are plenty of stories of Prince's nervousness, shyness, whatever you want to call it, when he was just beginning his musical career. Can't remember the source (maybe someone here does?)....might be Husney or Moon....but Prince elected to be alone when recording vocal tracks, or in the dark, or facing a back wall. I also seem to recall a story of how he would not project his voice enough and had to be coached a bit. I feel he most likely had to overcome some initial stage fright. It's also very possible some of that continued through his decades long career.

onlyforaminute said:

peggyon said:

Maybe you can help?...What do you think he overdosed on in 1996 (likley not aspirin and wine),

2011 and 2013?

Hydrocodone.

Just saying that is a really weak opiate (Vicodin) Would have needed a handful.

I also wanted to address his tolerance. When he died, he weighed 112 lbs and requires 4 mg of IV Narcan to reverse the opiates in his system. That is @ least twice what a heavy opiate user would require. (This is in the investigative files). It is not someone's weight but their tolerance.

He had a major tolerance when he died which leads me to think he was a long-time user.

PennyPurple said:

paulludvig said:

PennyPurple said: ?

Paul, I thought the question was pretty clear. If he had pain, why would he need to self medicate?

I'll spell it out. If he had pain why would he need to self medicate with opioids, that he didn't have a script for?

If a person is in such severe pain, what's the 1st thing that person will do?

1. Go to a Dr for help?

2. Buy drugs off the street?

The body becomes tolerant to pains meds after a while, all medicine actually. So usually, you go stronger so you can feel relief from symtoms. This is what turns most people into addicts, their bodies become tolerant to pain, and doctors know this, this is why they make perscriptions for a certain amount, once the patient runs out they usually get a new script.... but no doctor will give you a new script if you are not taking the medicine as directed.

When a person uses up their medicine too quickly, it is then called drug abuse because they are taking too much. If Prince was in chronic pain, then over time, his body would have become tolerant to pain meds and he (like many before him) would turn to using more meds, and getting them any way he could.

paintedlady said:

The body becomes tolerant to pains meds after a while, all medicine actually. So usually, you go stronger so you can feel relief from symtoms. This is what turns most people into addicts, their bodies become tolerant to pain, and doctors know this, this is why they make perscriptions for a certain amount, once the patient runs out they usually get a new script.... but no doctor will give you a new script if you are not taking the medicine as directed.

When a person uses up their medicine too quickly, it is then called drug abuse because they are taking too much. If Prince was in chronic pain, then over time, his body would have become tolerant to pain meds and he (like many before him) would turn to using more meds, and getting them any way he could.

Thank you. That is exactly what I've been saying.

peggyon said:

Just saying that is a really weak opiate (Vicodin) Would have needed a handful.

I also wanted to address his tolerance. When he died, he weighed 112 lbs and requires 4 mg of IV Narcan to reverse the opiates in his system. That is @ least twice what a heavy opiate user would require. (This is in the investigative files). It is not someone's weight but their tolerance.

He had a major tolerance when he died which leads me to think he was a long-time user.

That's what I've been questioning too Peggy. Those aren't strong opioids out of everything out there, I don't know why these would be his drug of choice. Maybe that's all people could get from their Drs. to give to him. We can't forget morphone was found in his UA.

PennyPurple said:

paintedlady said:

The body becomes tolerant to pains meds after a while, all medicine actually. So usually, you go stronger so you can feel relief from symtoms. This is what turns most people into addicts, their bodies become tolerant to pain, and doctors know this, this is why they make perscriptions for a certain amount, once the patient runs out they usually get a new script.... but no doctor will give you a new script if you are not taking the medicine as directed.

When a person uses up their medicine too quickly, it is then called drug abuse because they are taking too much. If Prince was in chronic pain, then over time, his body would have become tolerant to pain meds and he (like many before him) would turn to using more meds, and getting them any way he could.

Thank you. That is exactly what I've been saying.

No problem ... I am reading the thread in reverse, (it's a whole lot ) and this question I could jump in on, and yes, I don't see why people do not see that Prince could have easily have resorted to taking street drugs if docs were not willing to enable his addiction.


Sucks knowing P was in pain like that, I don't judge him, he really must have beat up his body over the years, everything must of hurt some days... not just the hips. He'll always have my utmost respect.

PennyPurple said:

peggyon said:

Just saying that is a really weak opiate (Vicodin) Would have needed a handful.

I also wanted to address his tolerance. When he died, he weighed 112 lbs and requires 4 mg of IV Narcan to reverse the opiates in his system. That is @ least twice what a heavy opiate user would require. (This is in the investigative files). It is not someone's weight but their tolerance.

He had a major tolerance when he died which leads me to think he was a long-time user.

That's what I've been questioning too Peggy. Those aren't strong opioids out of everything out there, I don't know why these would be his drug of choice. Maybe that's all people could get from their Drs. to give to him. We can't forget morphone was found in his UA.

Can't prove it, but I think he may have graduated...Dilaudid? This is where Dr D comes in saying Prince liked Dilaudid as it gave him energy. This would be in line with supporting his creative output.

[Edited 8/4/18 14:52pm]

[Edited 8/4/18 14:52pm]

peggyon said:

PennyPurple said:

That's what I've been questioning too Peggy. Those aren't strong opioids out of everything out there, I don't know why these would be his drug of choice. Maybe that's all people could get from their Drs. to give to him. We can't forget morphone was found in his UA.

Can't prove it, but I think he may have graduated...Dilaudid? This is where Dr D comes in saying Prince liked Dilaudid as it gave him energy. This would be in line with supporting his creative output.

[Edited 8/4/18 14:52pm]

[Edited 8/4/18 14:52pm]

Yes, I agree with you.

peggyon said:

PennyPurple said:

That's what I've been questioning too Peggy. Those aren't strong opioids out of everything out there, I don't know why these would be his drug of choice. Maybe that's all people could get from their Drs. to give to him. We can't forget morphone was found in his UA.

Can't prove it, but I think he may have graduated...Dilaudid? This is where Dr D comes in saying Prince liked Dilaudid as it gave him energy. This would be in line with supporting his creative output.

[Edited 8/4/18 14:52pm]

[Edited 8/4/18 14:52pm]

Using process of elimination:

-Heroin makes one sleepy

-I think Morphine does as well

-Vicodin has aspirin in it. I don't think addicts like opiates with aspirin, causes liver damage etc.

-Oxycodone. This is the opiate in Percocet without the aspirin. I think he liked those too.

-Dilaudid(hydromorphone), stong with no aspirin.

-(Hydromorphone is stronger than oxycodone).

[Edited 8/4/18 15:01pm]

[Edited 8/4/18 15:08pm]

onlyforaminute said:

Prince would've been dead a LONG time ago if he was addicted to coke and pain pills for years like some claim. Cocaine is horrible in the cardiovascular system. Look what happened to people like rick james

PennyPurple said:

peggyon said:

Can't prove it, but I think he may have graduated...Dilaudid? This is where Dr D comes in saying Prince liked Dilaudid as it gave him energy. This would be in line with supporting his creative output.

[Edited 8/4/18 14:52pm]

[Edited 8/4/18 14:52pm]

Yes, I agree with you.

co-sign...it's obvious if you read the files.

Strawberrylova123 said:

onlyforaminute said:

I kind of had hopes for you but naw nevermind. If getting nervous is your evidence that Dr. D is some legit source then your hopeless. A 130 pound Prince couldn't have been self dosing on fentanyl back in the 80s due to stage fright. But keeps overdosing on weaker hydro in the 90s. I really can't wait to see how this gets twisted around to insist that Dr D is a legit source. Especially given the countless interviews from all kinds of celebrities who say they get nervous. They all must be popping fentanyl to fix it. It's hilarious. [Edited 8/4/18 13:59pm]

Prince would've been dead a LONG time ago if he was addicted to coke and pain pills for years like some claim. Cocaine is horrible in the cardiovascular system. Look what happened to people like rick james

I get the feeling Prince was health-conscious and smart and he likely successfully weaned from the pain pills intermittently. I noticed he had half pills which said to me that he was kind of careful.

Though I was not there, I think her had an intermittent history with coke; does not show up in his toxicology reports. (so perhaps that was a thing of the past)

He was careful with his diet and exercised at least during his performances.

Rick James struck me as a wild man. I do not get the sense he was a vegetarian, or exercised and perhaps he smoked. Prince was more careful, ie. had a chef who prepared healthy meals, he never smoked tobacco, he often worked out.

A bit off- topic so forgive me, but just received heartbreaking news that my cousin died of an overdose yesterday. She got hooked on pain pills years ago and had turned to street drugs somewhere along the way. Rehab more than once. The sweetest, kindest, "good" girl you could imagine. Please pray for my aunt and the rest of her family if you are the praying type. Thank you.
I guess this is why i have never judged Prince, or questioned whether he was a fraud. The struggle is real. I have only compassion for anyone dealing with addiction. And i must add i'm grateful for the fact my cousin was not famous and relieved her death won't be speculated about and discussed for years on a public forum. I can't even imagine how painful that would be for her loved ones.
[Edited 8/4/18 15:25pm]

sonshine said:

A bit off- topic so forgive me, but just received heartbreaking news that my cousin died of an overdose yesterday. She got hooked on pain pills years ago and had turned to street drugs somewhere along the way. Rehab more than once. The sweetest, kindest, "good" girl you could imagine. Please pray for my aunt and the rest of her family if you are the praying type. Thank you. I guess this is why i have never judged Prince, or questioned whether he was a fraud. The struggle is real. I have only compassion for anyone dealing with addiction. And i must add i'm grateful for the fact my cousin was not famous and relieved her death won't be speculated about and discussed for years on a public forum. I can't even imagine how painful that would be for her loved ones. [Edited 8/4/18 15:25pm]

sending loving thoughts...

sonshine said:

A bit off- topic so forgive me, but just received heartbreaking news that my cousin died of an overdose yesterday. She got hooked on pain pills years ago and had turned to street drugs somewhere along the way. Rehab more than once. The sweetest, kindest, "good" girl you could imagine. Please pray for my aunt and the rest of her family if you are the praying type. Thank you. I guess this is why i have never judged Prince, or questioned whether he was a fraud. The struggle is real. I have only compassion for anyone dealing with addiction. And i must add i'm grateful for the fact my cousin was not famous and relieved her death won't be speculated about and discussed for years on a public forum. I can't even imagine how painful that would be for her loved ones. [Edited 8/4/18 15:25pm]

I am so sorry, Sonshine. Please know that none of are judging Prince. We all continue to be amazed by him. Just trying to "get to know him better"

We are trying to lessen the stigma of drugs by talking about the "truth" of a person.

Thank you. I get it. Just wish the subject didn't exist at all, but its not a perfect world.

sonshine said:

A bit off- topic so forgive me, but just received heartbreaking news that my cousin died of an overdose yesterday. She got hooked on pain pills years ago and had turned to street drugs somewhere along the way. Rehab more than once. The sweetest, kindest, "good" girl you could imagine. Please pray for my aunt and the rest of her family if you are the praying type. Thank you. I guess this is why i have never judged Prince, or questioned whether he was a fraud. The struggle is real. I have only compassion for anyone dealing with addiction. And i must add i'm grateful for the fact my cousin was not famous and relieved her death won't be speculated about and discussed for years on a public forum. I can't even imagine how painful that would be for her loved ones. [Edited 8/4/18 15:25pm]

I'm sorry for your loss and hope that you and your family find a way to cope with the loss.

Nevermind, peggyon said it all.

[Edited 8/4/18 15:33pm]

[Edited 8/4/18 15:34pm]

Camileyun said:

PennyPurple said:

I hope not either. He's still my favorite artist.

You have to wonder who tipped the press off about the Moline incident. It was put out by Princes people that he had the flu. But how did TMZ get pictures of him on the tarmac getting worked on? Who was on that plane? The pilot, & copilot, 1 stewardess, KJ, Judith, Prince. Was it an airport worker who obtained the photos and sold them? After that the Press was on him hot and heavy and he knew it.

Did the pilots tell the tower it was Prince? Did one of the EMT's talk?

And I have to wonder if he really wanted rehab help, and if he knew that one of the Kornfields were on their way?

Interesting questions. I vote for someone at the airport. The emts were busy saving a life and KJ was watching them (didn't he check someone's phone to make sure no photos were taken?) They didn't know it was P when they landed, but possibly found out later and retrieved camera footage from security cameras when they found out...I'm just speculating. Some people also sit around listening to police scanners. A private jet landing with an unconscious passenger could be news...especially at an airport with no evening flights coming or going. [Edited 8/4/18 10:15am]

[Edited 8/4/18 19:52pm]

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Camileyun said:

PennyPurple said: Interesting questions. I vote for someone at the airport. The emts were busy saving a life and KJ was watching them (didn't he check someone's phone to make sure no photos were taken?) They didn't know it was P when they landed, but possibly found out later and retrieved camera footage from security cameras when they found out...I'm just speculating. Some people also sit around listening to police scanners. A private jet landing with an unconscious passenger could be news...especially at an airport with no evening flights coming or going. [Edited 8/4/18 10:15am]

I thought it was quite, kinda funny in a morbid way! Reading when one of the EMT'S spotted and described Kirk carrying Prince off the plane "like U carry a baby" and he thought Prince was an "older woman" judging from what he was wearing and how small he was. Until he saw his face and recognized him immediately.

An older woman...

sonshine said:

Thank you. I get it. Just wish the subject didn't exist at all, but its not a perfect world.

With this new information, I can understand how you may have felt this thread was harsh re: Prince.

paintedlady said:

he died because he ingested a poison level of fentanyl, not because he had built up a tolerance level. His tolerance level is irrelevant. The poison level could have been in one pill.

muchtoofast said:

paintedlady said:

The body becomes tolerant to pains meds after a while, all medicine actually. So usually, you go stronger so you can feel relief from symtoms. This is what turns most people into addicts, their bodies become tolerant to pain, and doctors know this, this is why they make perscriptions for a certain amount, once the patient runs out they usually get a new script.... but no doctor will give you a new script if you are not taking the medicine as directed.

When a person uses up their medicine too quickly, it is then called drug abuse because they are taking too much. If Prince was in chronic pain, then over time, his body would have become tolerant to pain meds and he (like many before him) would turn to using more meds, and getting them any way he could.

he died because he ingested a poison level of fentanyl, not because he had built up a tolerance level. His tolerance level is irrelevant. The poison level could have been in one pill.

When he landed in Moline it took 4 mg of IV Narcan to bring him back, That is twice the dose a hard-core opiate addict requires. His tolerance was off- the -chart in Moline. Tolerance is everything

Please read the investigative files. I'm going off duty

peggyon said:

muchtoofast said:

paintedlady said: he died because he ingested a poison level of fentanyl, not because he had built up a tolerance level. His tolerance level is irrelevant. The poison level could have been in one pill.

When he landed in Moline it took 4 mg of IV Narcan to bring him back, That is twice the dose a hard-core opiate addict requires. His tolerance was off- the -chart in Moline. Tolerance is everything

Please read the investigative files. I'm going off duty

Respectfully disagree in this instance. Tolerance is always bested by a decision to take a dose you know will be fatal...

Bodhitheblackdog said:

peggyon said:

When he landed in Moline it took 4 mg of IV Narcan to bring him back, That is twice the dose a hard-core opiate addict requires. His tolerance was off- the -chart in Moline. Tolerance is everything

Please read the investigative files. I'm going off duty

Respectfully disagree in this instance. Tolerance is always bested by a decision to take a dose you know will be fatal...

Yes, that is true.

muchtoofast said:

It can take you aback when you first see how tiny he was. You have this imagine in your mind you need to readjust.In truth he probably was a lightweight in how much he could tolerate compared to so many others. If people want to take some information while ignoring other information then nothing can be done about that. On marches the folklore and theories. Doesn't mean everyone is ignoring facts nor has kept track of the information that's been coming out. If he was exposed to toxic levels of fentanyl then of course it would have taken 2 Narcon shots to bring him around. The amount that killed him was enough to kill several large adults. It's not rocket science. Pretty easy to connect the dots.

sonshine said:

A bit off- topic so forgive me, but just received heartbreaking news that my cousin died of an overdose yesterday. She got hooked on pain pills years ago and had turned to street drugs somewhere along the way. Rehab more than once. The sweetest, kindest, "good" girl you could imagine. Please pray for my aunt and the rest of her family if you are the praying type. Thank you. I guess this is why i have never judged Prince, or questioned whether he was a fraud. The struggle is real. I have only compassion for anyone dealing with addiction. And i must add i'm grateful for the fact my cousin was not famous and relieved her death won't be speculated about and discussed for years on a public forum. I can't even imagine how painful that would be for her loved ones. [Edited 8/4/18 15:25pm]

Sorry for your loss Sonshine.

sonshine said:

Oh sonshine I am so sorry for your loss my heart goes out to u and your family!! I too have lost family to addiction (alcohol) and it is devastating. I am sure your cousin was a beautiful and awesome lady - these substances can take the smartest, best person down. I am a praying woman and I am praying for you and your family right now. U stay strong and remember the good times with your cousin she is still with u. Take care ❤🙏🌹💜