paulludvig said:

PennyPurple said:

Really? And people who also knew Prince have said that he did have a drug problem. It's in those same files that you are referencing too.

You can't just pick and choose whst to believe.

And neither can you.

Demi Lovato Agrees To Rehab To The Relief Of Wilmer Valderrama & Family Following Overdose.

https://hollywoodlife.com/2018/08/02/demi-lovato-agrees-rehab-overdose-family/

PennyPurple said:

PennyPurple said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Demi Lovato Agrees To Rehab To The Relief Of Wilmer Valderrama & Family Following Overdose.

https://hollywoodlife.com/2018/08/02/demi-lovato-agrees-rehab-overdose-family/

Glad to hear that.

PennyPurple said:

OperatingThetan said:

paulludvig said:

PennyPurple said:

The investigative files show that he didn't have major pain complaints. It's never been proven that he had any pain. Again, if 1 has sooo much pain, they seek help from a Dr., not a drug dealer.

Prince suffering physical pain is something the files actually show evidence for in the form of numerous testimonies from people who knew Prince.

Are we talking about the reported hip pain? One can undergo a routine hip replacement surgery which after a 6 week recovery renders one essentially pain-free. I have cared for many of these patients.

Prince could have chosen to undergo surgery on the other hip as well. I feel he "milked" the hip pain thing. (One can undergo these surgeries with very little blood loss and there is a blood-like product which is approved by JW if needed)

Hand pain, take a few days off from the piano, take Advil, ice and elevate said hands. This does not require narcotics.

When he was observed walking to meet with Dr. S., he showed no signs of limping or favoring a sore hip.

peggyon said:

Are we talking about the reported hip pain? One can undergo a routine hip replacement surgery which after a 6 week recovery renders one essentially pain-free. I have cared for many of these patients.

Prince could have chosen to undergo surgery on the other hip as well. I feel he "milked" the hip pain thing. (One can undergo these surgeries with very little blood loss and there is a blood-like product which is approved by JW if needed)

Hand pain, take a few days off from the piano, take Advil, ice and elevate said hands. This does not require narcotics.

When he was observed walking to meet with Dr. S., he showed no signs of limping or favoring a sore hip.

And on that visit where he was videoed going into the office, he didn't complain of pain either. And I believe that Dr. S even stated that on the 2nd visit, all complaints from the 1st visit had corrected themselves.

muchtoofast said:

PennyPurple said:

I don't think she has an agenda.

How does it look for Prince to be running around on his pregnant wife?

Penny, your negative opinion of him IS her agenda. She is bringing up rumors about him and his wife out of anger, anger at being used for sex or a place to stay or to make his wife jealous or whatever, and she’s manipulating you to also be angry at him or “not like him”. Her anger at him doesn’t have a place on this Prince FAN SITE.

So you wanna say that there shouldn't be negative stuff on a fan site, just because it is a fan site? You do realize that we can criticize him for cheating on his pregnant wife and still love him at the same time? Or do you never critize the people you like/love? Prince will always be our favourite artist. But like Penny said, it takes two, Prince chose to cheat on his girlfriends and wifes.

[Edited 8/2/18 17:14pm]

muchtoofast said:

PennyPurple said:

I don't think she has an agenda.

How does it look for Prince to be running around on his pregnant wife?

Penny, your negative opinion of him IS her agenda. She is bringing up rumors about him and his wife out of anger, anger at being used for sex or a place to stay or to make his wife jealous or whatever, and she’s manipulating you to also be angry at him or “not like him”. Her anger at him doesn’t have a place on this Prince FAN SITE.

I don't see any anger in her posts. And why are you just blaming her for Prince cheating? It's all her fault, right? But where does Princes fault lie? He was never faithful to his wives or lovers. I see anger in your posts concerning Cat. And let's be honest. Why wasn't he home with his pregnant wife? The Drs, told them that there were problems with the baby before she even had the baby, he didn't even want her to get help from the Drs. So maybe he should've been home with his wife and unborn baby and worrying about them, instead of out catting around (no pun intended). Mayte gave us the story in her book, about the P and the baby, you can use that as your reference.

My negative opinion of him? I'm just a realist. It takes 2 to tango.

I also suggest that if you want to hold up for Mayte or diss Mayte, you have the freedom to start a thread in the Associate Artist forum.

This thread has been derailed enough, lets get back to the investigation.

peggyon said:

paulludvig said:

peggyon said:

Are we talking about the reported hip pain? One can undergo a routine hip replacement surgery which after a 6 week recovery renders one essentially pain-free. I have cared for many of these patients.

Prince could have chosen to undergo surgery on the other hip as well. I feel he "milked" the hip pain thing. (One can undergo these surgeries with very little blood loss and there is a blood-like product which is approved by JW if needed)

Hand pain, take a few days off from the piano, take Advil, ice and elevate said hands. This does not require narcotics.

When he was observed walking to meet with Dr. S., he showed no signs of limping or favoring a sore hip.

He wouldn't have undergone surgery if there wasn't an issue with pain, so saying Prince never suffered physical pain makes very little sense.

He could have undergone surgery much sooner

peggyon said:

peggyon said:

paulludvig said:

PennyPurple said: Prince suffering physical pain is something the files actually show evidence for in the form of numerous testimonies from people who knew Prince.

Are we talking about the reported hip pain? One can undergo a routine hip replacement surgery which after a 6 week recovery renders one essentially pain-free. I have cared for many of these patients.

Prince could have chosen to undergo surgery on the other hip as well. I feel he "milked" the hip pain thing. (One can undergo these surgeries with very little blood loss and there is a blood-like product which is approved by JW if needed)

Hand pain, take a few days off from the piano, take Advil, ice and elevate said hands. This does not require narcotics.

When he was observed walking to meet with Dr. S., he showed no signs of limping or favoring a sore hip.

And one can also undergo hip replacement surgery (which it has been reported was not the type of surgery Prince had) and continue to have a lot of pain and problems. I work with clients now that still have a lot of pain and have never fully recovered from their hip replacement surgeries. I also still work with patients that have peripheral neuropathy that was a result of the surgery they underwent. As for hand pain, it depends upon the kind of injury to the hand whether RICE would be an effective form of treatment, or the extent of that injury. If the damage is severe enough, RICE will not be effective.

Hip replacement surgery is 90 to 95% effective, which means 5 to 10% of patients continue to have problems following hip replacement surgery. But again, Prince didn't have hip replacement surgery by what has been reported. He had hip surgery, but we do not know what kind of hip surgery, and therefore we do not know the success rate of said surgery.

As for the video, it was a very short video. And if you look at the video when Prince is leaving, it appears that he is favoring his right side. (Can't remember which side it was said that he had the surgery on, but he is definitely favoring that right side. His steps are small, and they are more tentative on the right leg. I know that walk because I do the same thing with my left leg when it is hurting from the blood clots I've had. It's very subtle, but it is there.)

PennyPurple said:

OperatingThetan said:

There is a difference between taking recreational drugs and medicating for pain (whether that pain medication was sourced illegally or not). I won't 'lighten up' on requiring facts, evidence and a credible level of discourse before arriving at a conclusion. Some of the jumps in logic displayed on this thread are frankly laughable and an insult to anyone of average intelligence. Major claims require major proof. Otherwise make the statements as speculation or conjecture but don't try to pass them as 'truth' or as having any factual basis.

The investigative files show that he didn't have major pain complaints. It's never been proven that he had any pain. Again, if 1 has sooo much pain, they seek help from a Dr., not a drug dealer.

Penny, for most people, yes, if we have pain we're going to to go to the doctor. But this is Prince we're talking about. Prince needed to be in control of his image, so much so that he even when he was just starting out he told the band members they were always on and had to dress the part at all times. A part of Prince's image was that he was a healthy man, who looked after himself. While we would have understood him having pain and seeking help for that pain, considering what he gave us in his performances over the years, to Prince, that would not have been in keeping with the image he tried to portray.

Also, as I stated previously, as a black man and a rock star, he might have been seen by doctors as "drug seeking" and the doctors would have tried other methods of treating his pain, such as physical therapy. Can you see Prince agreeing to physical therapy? This is something that he would have had to schedule, would have had to seen them during regular working hours (which Prince did not keep regular working hours), and it would have seemed like a mark against that image he tried to keep if it got out.

Back when he did have hip surgery, the doctors could have told him that the only real way to deal with his pain would be a hip replacement surgery, or some other more invasive surgery, and Prince may have decided that he was going to seek alternative methods of dealing wth the pain besides having the doctors recommend further surgery. OR it could be that the original surgery was not as successful as Prince thought it should be and he felt like the doctor that did the original surgery botched it somehow, and decided he didn't trust doctors any more, so was going to take care of himself without resorting to doctors.

It could be any number of scenarios that prevented him from going back to the doctors. PT would have taken too much time and would have had to be regulated (scheduled) on their terms, and Prince didn't do schedules on anyone's terms but his owns. More surgery may not have been an option to Prince because receovery time would have taken longer than he wanted to dedicate to it, or be more time than he was willing to give to not tour. There are so many things that could have gone on in his mind that prevented him from seeking medical assistance with his pain. But there have been too many people that mentioned his pain, and logically, if you watch the way he performed and how often he performed over the years, to think he had no pain just boggles the mind. I don't perform and I'm seven years younger than Prince and I have aches and pains galore just from the work I've done over the years. I cannot imagine that Prince was pain free, at all.

benni said:

PennyPurple said:

The investigative files show that he didn't have major pain complaints. It's never been proven that he had any pain. Again, if 1 has sooo much pain, they seek help from a Dr., not a drug dealer.

Penny, for most people, yes, if we have pain we're going to to go to the doctor. But this is Prince we're talking about. Prince needed to be in control of his image, so much so that he even when he was just starting out he told the band members they were always on and had to dress the part at all times. A part of Prince's image was that he was a healthy man, who looked after himself. While we would have understood him having pain and seeking help for that pain, considering what he gave us in his performances over the years, to Prince, that would not have been in keeping with the image he tried to portray.

Also, as I stated previously, as a black man and a rock star, he might have been seen by doctors as "drug seeking" and the doctors would have tried other methods of treating his pain, such as physical therapy. Can you see Prince agreeing to physical therapy? This is something that he would have had to schedule, would have had to seen them during regular working hours (which Prince did not keep regular working hours), and it would have seemed like a mark against that image he tried to keep if it got out.

Back when he did have hip surgery, the doctors could have told him that the only real way to deal with his pain would be a hip replacement surgery, or some other more invasive surgery, and Prince may have decided that he was going to seek alternative methods of dealing wth the pain besides having the doctors recommend further surgery. OR it could be that the original surgery was not as successful as Prince thought it should be and he felt like the doctor that did the original surgery botched it somehow, and decided he didn't trust doctors any more, so was going to take care of himself without resorting to doctors.

It could be any number of scenarios that prevented him from going back to the doctors. PT would have taken too much time and would have had to be regulated (scheduled) on their terms, and Prince didn't do schedules on anyone's terms but his owns. More surgery may not have been an option to Prince because receovery time would have taken longer than he wanted to dedicate to it, or be more time than he was willing to give to not tour. There are so many things that could have gone on in his mind that prevented him from seeking medical assistance with his pain. But there have been too many people that mentioned his pain, and logically, if you watch the way he performed and how often he performed over the years, to think he had no pain just boggles the mind. I don't perform and I'm seven years younger than Prince and I have aches and pains galore just from the work I've done over the years. I cannot imagine that Prince was pain free, at all.

Perhaps we need to agree to disagree and return to the death investigation

Delete due to off topic a bit.

benni said:

peggyon said:

Are we talking about the reported hip pain? One can undergo a routine hip replacement surgery which after a 6 week recovery renders one essentially pain-free. I have cared for many of these patients.

Prince could have chosen to undergo surgery on the other hip as well. I feel he "milked" the hip pain thing. (One can undergo these surgeries with very little blood loss and there is a blood-like product which is approved by JW if needed)

Hand pain, take a few days off from the piano, take Advil, ice and elevate said hands. This does not require narcotics.

When he was observed walking to meet with Dr. S., he showed no signs of limping or favoring a sore hip.

And one can also undergo hip replacement surgery (which it has been reported was not the type of surgery Prince had) and continue to have a lot of pain and problems. I work with clients now that still have a lot of pain and have never fully recovered from their hip replacement surgeries. I also still work with patients that have peripheral neuropathy that was a result of the surgery they underwent. As for hand pain, it depends upon the kind of injury to the hand whether RICE would be an effective form of treatment, or the extent of that injury. If the damage is severe enough, RICE will not be effective.

Hip replacement surgery is 90 to 95% effective, which means 5 to 10% of patients continue to have problems following hip replacement surgery. But again, Prince didn't have hip replacement surgery by what has been reported. He had hip surgery, but we do not know what kind of hip surgery, and therefore we do not know the success rate of said surgery.

As for the video, it was a very short video. And if you look at the video when Prince is leaving, it appears that he is favoring his right side. (Can't remember which side it was said that he had the surgery on, but he is definitely favoring that right side. His steps are small, and they are more tentative on the right leg. I know that walk because I do the same thing with my left leg when it is hurting from the blood clots I've had. It's very subtle, but it is there.)

[Edited 8/2/18 19:24pm]

[Edited 8/2/18 19:27pm]

SkipperLove said:

Can I ask you a question (seeing as you are a medical professional), other than dislocation due to improper exercise, are there any other pain issues that can pop up after hip replacements especially in an active man? I just did some reading about how high impact or strenous exercise can dislocate the hip.

Also, another question when Prince emailed KJ about canceling the chiropactor because "it went back in place", could he be talking about his hip dislocation popping back into place or would that be impossible without a doctor?

Thank YOU.

benni said:

And one can also undergo hip replacement surgery (which it has been reported was not the type of surgery Prince had) and continue to have a lot of pain and problems. I work with clients now that still have a lot of pain and have never fully recovered from their hip replacement surgeries. I also still work with patients that have peripheral neuropathy that was a result of the surgery they underwent. As for hand pain, it depends upon the kind of injury to the hand whether RICE would be an effective form of treatment, or the extent of that injury. If the damage is severe enough, RICE will not be effective.

Hip replacement surgery is 90 to 95% effective, which means 5 to 10% of patients continue to have problems following hip replacement surgery. But again, Prince didn't have hip replacement surgery by what has been reported. He had hip surgery, but we do not know what kind of hip surgery, and therefore we do not know the success rate of said surgery.

As for the video, it was a very short video. And if you look at the video when Prince is leaving, it appears that he is favoring his right side. (Can't remember which side it was said that he had the surgery on, but he is definitely favoring that right side. His steps are small, and they are more tentative on the right leg. I know that walk because I do the same thing with my left leg when it is hurting from the blood clots I've had. It's very subtle, but it is there.)

Skipper, I'm a medical social worker that works with elderly and disabled adults (of all ages). Some of the problems that I've seen develop with my clients after hip replacement surgeries are blood clots, dislocations, loosening of the joint which creates a lot of pain, and infections. I've got a couple that developed peripheral neuropathy due to nerve damage that resulted during the surgery. But some other issues that can arise from hip replacements are fractures and a change in leg length. I watched a documentary recently that also talked about some of the problems that have developed with metal on metal hip replacements, the metal (cobalt especially) leeches into the blood stream and can cause neurological issues, including misdiagnosis of dementia or Parkinson's a few years after the surgery. In that situation, it's correctible with another surgery to replace the metal ball with a ceramic one.

As for Prince's email, there isn't any way of knowing for certain what he meant by that without full context. He could have been talking about a hip dislocation, or his kink in his neck, or any number of things.

SkipperLove said:

Can I ask you a question (seeing as you are a medical professional), other than dislocation due to improper exercise, are there any other pain issues that can pop up after hip replacements especially in an active man? I just did some reading about how high impact or strenous exercise can dislocate the hip.

Also, another question when Prince emailed KJ about canceling the chiropactor because "it went back in place", could he be talking about his hip dislocation popping back into place or would that be impossible without a doctor?

Thank YOU.

benni said:

And one can also undergo hip replacement surgery (which it has been reported was not the type of surgery Prince had) and continue to have a lot of pain and problems. I work with clients now that still have a lot of pain and have never fully recovered from their hip replacement surgeries. I also still work with patients that have peripheral neuropathy that was a result of the surgery they underwent. As for hand pain, it depends upon the kind of injury to the hand whether RICE would be an effective form of treatment, or the extent of that injury. If the damage is severe enough, RICE will not be effective.

Hip replacement surgery is 90 to 95% effective, which means 5 to 10% of patients continue to have problems following hip replacement surgery. But again, Prince didn't have hip replacement surgery by what has been reported. He had hip surgery, but we do not know what kind of hip surgery, and therefore we do not know the success rate of said surgery.

As for the video, it was a very short video. And if you look at the video when Prince is leaving, it appears that he is favoring his right side. (Can't remember which side it was said that he had the surgery on, but he is definitely favoring that right side. His steps are small, and they are more tentative on the right leg. I know that walk because I do the same thing with my left leg when it is hurting from the blood clots I've had. It's very subtle, but it is there.)

By the time Prince had his total hip replacement in 2010, he was no longer performing as acrobatically and he was 52 as well. Some hips can dislocate right after surgery but most patients receive physical therapy and follow instructions as to avoid that with proper range of motion and increasing strengthening exercises. Part of my job is to teach these patients what to expect prior to and post-surgery so I am very familiar with it. Also, most folks do not wait until they were as symptomatic as Prince to have the surgery. There are very few post-op problems and they would be evaluated especially for someone of Prince's stature.

Our hip patients go home the same day. It is not a difficult surgery.

This is why I scratch my head about the years of hip pain?

peggyon said:

SkipperLove said:

Can I ask you a question (seeing as you are a medical professional), other than dislocation due to improper exercise, are there any other pain issues that can pop up after hip replacements especially in an active man? I just did some reading about how high impact or strenous exercise can dislocate the hip.

Also, another question when Prince emailed KJ about canceling the chiropactor because "it went back in place", could he be talking about his hip dislocation popping back into place or would that be impossible without a doctor?

Thank YOU.

By the time Prince had his total hip replacement in 2010, he was no longer performing as acrobatically and he was 52 as well. Some hips can dislocate right after surgery but most patients receive physical therapy and follow instructions as to avoid that with proper range of motion and increasing strengthening exercises. Part of my job is to teach these patients what to expect prior to and post-surgery so I am very familiar with it. Also, most folks do not wait until they were as symptomatic as Prince to have the surgery. There are very few post-op problems and they would be evaluated especially for someone of Prince's stature.

Our hip patients go home the same day. It is not a difficult surgery.

This is why I scratch my head about the years of hip pain?

peggy, can you verify where you are getting the information that he had total hip replacement surgery in 2010? I have never found anything to verify that information. In fact, those close to Prince have reported hip surgery, but not replacement.

He danced more in 2011 Welcome to America Tour than he did many years prior.. Not sure what that indicates, but he went from just standing in 2009 during performances to 2 minute dance solos with pop-n-lock hip girations in 2011, eventually back to limited motion, and finally mostly the piano. Could hip pain be masked by the drugs he was already on?

peggyon said:

SkipperLove said:

Can I ask you a question (seeing as you are a medical professional), other than dislocation due to improper exercise, are there any other pain issues that can pop up after hip replacements especially in an active man? I just did some reading about how high impact or strenous exercise can dislocate the hip.

Also, another question when Prince emailed KJ about canceling the chiropactor because "it went back in place", could he be talking about his hip dislocation popping back into place or would that be impossible without a doctor?

Thank YOU.

By the time Prince had his total hip replacement in 2010, he was no longer performing as acrobatically and he was 52 as well. Some hips can dislocate right after surgery but most patients receive physical therapy and follow instructions as to avoid that with proper range of motion and increasing strengthening exercises. Part of my job is to teach these patients what to expect prior to and post-surgery so I am very familiar with it. Also, most folks do not wait until they were as symptomatic as Prince to have the surgery. There are very few post-op problems and they would be evaluated especially for someone of Prince's stature.

Our hip patients go home the same day. It is not a difficult surgery.

This is why I scratch my head about the years of hip pain?

benni said:

peggyon said:

By the time Prince had his total hip replacement in 2010, he was no longer performing as acrobatically and he was 52 as well. Some hips can dislocate right after surgery but most patients receive physical therapy and follow instructions as to avoid that with proper range of motion and increasing strengthening exercises. Part of my job is to teach these patients what to expect prior to and post-surgery so I am very familiar with it. Also, most folks do not wait until they were as symptomatic as Prince to have the surgery. There are very few post-op problems and they would be evaluated especially for someone of Prince's stature.

Our hip patients go home the same day. It is not a difficult surgery.

This is why I scratch my head about the years of hip pain?

peggy, can you verify where you are getting the information that he had total hip replacement surgery in 2010? I have never found anything to verify that information. In fact, those close to Prince have reported hip surgery, but not replacement.

Yes, it was mentioned indirectly in the investigative files. His manager at the time stated that Prince

was "running around Paisley Park" naked after his hip replacement 2010 He had a "reaction" to Percocet. Not sure if he was withdrawing but he stated he felt hot which is why he took his clothes off. He sounded disoriented.

OK, let's get back to the thread. I think someone else started another thread related to Prince and his pain. That would be a great place to share ideas about his pain.

peggyon said:

benni said:

peggy, can you verify where you are getting the information that he had total hip replacement surgery in 2010? I have never found anything to verify that information. In fact, those close to Prince have reported hip surgery, but not replacement.

Yes, it was mentioned indirectly in the investigative files. His manager at the time stated that Prince

was "running around Paisley Park" naked after his hip replacement 2010 He had a "reaction" to Percocet. Not sure if he was withdrawing but he stated he felt hot which is why he took his clothes off. He sounded disoriented.

Thank you. I wanted to see where you were getting that from, because Billy Sparks stated that he had hip surgery and very specifically that it was not a hip replacement, back after Prince passed in 2016.

benni said:

Thank you. I wanted to see where you were getting that from, because Billy Sparks stated that he had hip surgery and very specifically that it was not a hip replacement, back after Prince passed in 2016.

On page 143 of the DEA files, Prince answered "none" to the question of surgical history. Interesting, yes?

Mumio said:

benni said:

Thank you. I wanted to see where you were getting that from, because Billy Sparks stated that he had hip surgery and very specifically that it was not a hip replacement, back after Prince passed in 2016.

On page 143 of the DEA files, Prince answered "none" to the question of surgical history. Interesting, yes?

Mumio, can you post that? But yes, very interesting. If it was an outpatient type of thing, he may not have seen it as a surgery. I always forget to list those things on questionaires at doctor's offices, too, and when I mention I have a vena cava filter in place or had 3 stents implanted....they say, "We don't see that listed under your surgeries." oops