1Sasha said:

Camileyun said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

His denial was so strong, even as to how the Narcan would affect him which I'm sure the doc in Moline explained in detail. HOW could Judith, who was there and likely heard the same warnings, merrily go on her way back to CA? Some 'girlfriend.'

I get the impression that Judith was just along for the ride...a bit naive, and loving the attention from P. (who wouldn't?) Don't rock the boat. P. probably convinced her he was fine and she was ill equipped to stand up to him.

so true....and just another example of how 1) he really didn't have anyone close to him who was Ride or Die,2) he chose people to interact with for the wrong reasons: his ability to control them rather than for their authenticity and 3) he was surrounded by users who he, in turn, used.

Did Prince live 'his best life'? Not when it came to interacting with other human beings. So sad.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Camileyun said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

so true....and just another example of how 1) he really didn't have anyone close to him who was Ride or Die,2) he chose people to interact with for the wrong reasons: his ability to control them rather than for their authenticity and 3) he was surrounded by users who he, in turn, used.

Did Prince live 'his best life'? Not when it came to interacting with other human beings. So sad.

Exactly.

I thought I read that he wanted her to stay and watch a movie with him. Not certain if that meant staying longer. I got the sense he wanted her to stay, though he may decided to send her back to LA as he was in damage control at that point.I got the impression that she was a nice, straighforward person.

leec1 said:

PennyPurple said:

It's a living hell.

Drs know how to prescribe it, but don't know how to fix the problem once they get the patients hooked.

After listening to this video and his mention of the CDC guidelines, it made to curious to see what the CDC recommends for withdrawal. Below is the link to the CDC guidelines.

https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/pdf/clinical_pocket_guide_tapering-a.pdf

supposedly no more than a 10 % step down per week.- there is a chart- watched this awhile back- thanks ISLIJAG for posting here

Did I read that wrong, Penny- after I posted this I read your husband tapered 10%/6 months..I could've sworn this guy giving the lecture stated to not wean more than 10 % per week- correct me, as I don't want to accidentally put incorrect info out there- ESPECIALLY if people who are reading this (and may try to wean themselves), take our word for it.

[Edited 7/29/18 10:24am]

AnnaStesia10 said:

I can personally attest to the facts that opiods are a hell of a drug. My best friend was addicted to dilaudid pain pills due to a bad back. This damn doctor had him on vicodin then percocet then dilaudid which is the top of the tops in pain pills. Not to mention early on was on a fentanyl pain patch. All for lower back pain-perforated discs. This was around 2011-13 before more of the smack downs on prescriptions. But this doc did not warn or think of the ramifications of these pain meds on my friend. He had to kick fentanyl addiction which taking anything less is not enough cuz tolerance is built up so he was taking more dilaudid pills to make up for it. My friend had to go to rehab and not work for 5 months to kick this shit. And trust he tried and tried on his own. It was hell. This shit is poison and it does have a place for surgeries and for terminal illnesses. But it was and at times still is given out without a plan to ween the patient off of it. My step dad had hip surgery and now is hooked on percocet and they keep giving it to him. All of us his fam and friends are trying to get him off of it and switch to marijuana but he does not want to listen, thinks he is fine and has no problem and has admited he likes that the pills make him feel good with his emotions. These pills are making his pain worse that is what they do and he is not facing his problems my mom died 3 yrs back now he is spiraling. He is stubborn just like I am sure Prince was and the more we try to intervene the more he pulls away from us. A person wont stop no matter what friends and fam try to do because the drugs can take over the mind. Its hard to watch and deal with. These pills are like a double edged sword.

Bolding for emphasis!!! Thank you for verifying what I've been yelling for quite some time now!

AnnaStesia10 said:

I can personally attest to the facts that opiods are a hell of a drug. My best friend was addicted to dilaudid pain pills due to a bad back. This damn doctor had him on vicodin then percocet then dilaudid which is the top of the tops in pain pills. Not to mention early on was on a fentanyl pain patch. All for lower back pain-perforated discs. This was around 2011-13 before more of the smack downs on prescriptions. But this doc did not warn or think of the ramifications of these pain meds on my friend. He had to kick fentanyl addiction which taking anything less is not enough cuz tolerance is built up so he was taking more dilaudid pills to make up for it. My friend had to go to rehab and not work for 5 months to kick this shit. And trust he tried and tried on his own. It was hell. This shit is poison and it does have a place for surgeries and for terminal illnesses. But it was and at times still is given out without a plan to ween the patient off of it. My step dad had hip surgery and now is hooked on percocet and they keep giving it to him. All of us his fam and friends are trying to get him off of it and switch to marijuana but he does not want to listen, thinks he is fine and has no problem and has admited he likes that the pills make him feel good with his emotions. These pills are making his pain worse that is what they do and he is not facing his problems my mom died 3 yrs back now he is spiraling. He is stubborn just like I am sure Prince was and the more we try to intervene the more he pulls away from us. A person wont stop no matter what friends and fam try to do because the drugs can take over the mind. Its hard to watch and deal with. These pills are like a double edged sword.

Can I ask you aquestion? What was your friend's demanor whilst on Fent patched / dilaudid...could you tell towards the end before treatment/what was the demeanor in the beginning. Thanks for sharing your experience with your friend and congratulations to him for sticking with it and plowing through. MUCH RESEPECT

Camileyun said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

His denial was so strong, even as to how the Narcan would affect him which I'm sure the doc in Moline explained in detail. HOW could Judith, who was there and likely heard the same warnings, merrily go on her way back to CA? Some 'girlfriend.'

I get the impression that Judith was just along for the ride...a bit naive, and loving the attention from P. (who wouldn't?) Don't rock the boat. P. probably convinced her he was fine and she was ill equipped to stand up to him.

Don't let that fool you- she's a black widow

precioux said:

AnnaStesia10 said:

I can personally attest to the facts that opiods are a hell of a drug. My best friend was addicted to dilaudid pain pills due to a bad back. This damn doctor had him on vicodin then percocet then dilaudid which is the top of the tops in pain pills. Not to mention early on was on a fentanyl pain patch. All for lower back pain-perforated discs. This was around 2011-13 before more of the smack downs on prescriptions. But this doc did not warn or think of the ramifications of these pain meds on my friend. He had to kick fentanyl addiction which taking anything less is not enough cuz tolerance is built up so he was taking more dilaudid pills to make up for it. My friend had to go to rehab and not work for 5 months to kick this shit. And trust he tried and tried on his own. It was hell. This shit is poison and it does have a place for surgeries and for terminal illnesses. But it was and at times still is given out without a plan to ween the patient off of it. My step dad had hip surgery and now is hooked on percocet and they keep giving it to him. All of us his fam and friends are trying to get him off of it and switch to marijuana but he does not want to listen, thinks he is fine and has no problem and has admited he likes that the pills make him feel good with his emotions. These pills are making his pain worse that is what they do and he is not facing his problems my mom died 3 yrs back now he is spiraling. He is stubborn just like I am sure Prince was and the more we try to intervene the more he pulls away from us. A person wont stop no matter what friends and fam try to do because the drugs can take over the mind. Its hard to watch and deal with. These pills are like a double edged sword.

Can I ask you aquestion? What was your friend's demanor whilst on Fent patched / dilaudid...could you tell towards the end before treatment/what was the demeanor in the beginning. Thanks for sharing your experience with your friend and congratulations to him for sticking with it and plowing through. MUCH RESEPECT

co-sign...big thanks for sharing your personal experience.

Tilikum1983 said:

CatB said:

Just for the sake of clarity: She didn't find him, it was a security guy, who was also the one who took him to hospital.

It was also never said that it happened 21 April. That was added later for dramatic value.

No I noticed this tpo I forget how it is worded but it was April 21st 1996

I wanted to respond to this when CatB first posted this- lest we not forget (bolded), that security guy on 4/21/96....wanna guess who it was? Yep, good ole Kirky J, same 'security gaurd' who carried Prince off of the plane in Moline. FACT

peggyon said:

precioux said:

Don't let that fool you- she's a black widow

X3. MJ, Prince and I forgot who the other one was.

precioux said:

PennyPurple said:

precioux said:

Don't let that fool you- she's a black widow

X3. MJ, Prince and I forgot who the other one was.

yes ma'am. Need to look for the other one. She was a well know Jazz musician, it was brought out on one of JH youtube videos. Whoever posted it had ALOT of knowledge being ALL who died within her grips

[Edited 7/29/18 10:50am]

Camileyun said:

precioux said:

Don't let that fool you- she's a black widow

Are you thinking she was diabolical enough to be involved in his death, and then act like the naive and clueless girlfriend to the police?

could be - same stunt with MJ- and like I've said many of times on here, I don't believe in coincidences. Don't get my words wrong here- I am not of the thought that Prince was murdered, but her background is that of a blackwidow, and Prince is now on that list. I thought she was 'Prince's gf?'...then there were rumors that she was dating KJ after Prince's death. I do not want to derail this thread, but wanted to give you an answer on my thoughts of the situation

precioux said:

Camileyun said:

precioux said:

Camileyun said:

precioux said:

Don't let that fool you- she's a black widow

Are you thinking she was diabolical enough to be involved in his death, and then act like the naive and clueless girlfriend to the police?

could be - same stunt with MJ- and like I've said many of times on here, I don't believe in coincidences. Don't get my words wrong here- I am not of the thought that Prince was murdered, but her background is that of a blackwidow, and Prince is now on that list. I thought she was 'Prince's gf?'...then there were rumors that she was dating KJ after Prince's death. I do not want to derail this thread, but wanted to give you an answer on my thoughts of the situation

It would explain how someone could be with someone, up close and personal, for two weeks out of every month for over a year and have no clue about ANY drug use at all. Acting. She has the naive act down, I'll give her that.
[Edited 7/29/18 11:14am]

Camileyun said:

As hard as it is to say, I think we should consider the fact that P. suffered from hypoxia on the plane. Judith said numerous times, she thought he was dead and that KJ had to keep checking for a pulse (you'd think CPR may have been appropriate at this point, but none was performed). She said it took what seemed like forever to land the plane, then the logistics of getting him off the plane. With shallow breathing for so long, his brain was lacking enough oxygen for quite some time. As I stated earlier, this can have "long term impacts on the brain and can trigger psychological and neurological problems." "Permanent damage is a very real possibility as well." (americanaddictioncenters.org)

And when you consider this was probably not Ps first od based on KJ s statement to him in the hospital, it would be naive to think he was not suffering from some sort of neurological damage. This means he probably was not in his right mind that night and not thinking straight.

We never saw him play anything again after the plane incident, did we?

Strawberrylova123 said:

Camileyun said:

As hard as it is to say, I think we should consider the fact that P. suffered from hypoxia on the plane. Judith said numerous times, she thought he was dead and that KJ had to keep checking for a pulse (you'd think CPR may have been appropriate at this point, but none was performed). She said it took what seemed like forever to land the plane, then the logistics of getting him off the plane. With shallow breathing for so long, his brain was lacking enough oxygen for quite some time. As I stated earlier, this can have "long term impacts on the brain and can trigger psychological and neurological problems." "Permanent damage is a very real possibility as well." (americanaddictioncenters.org)

And when you consider this was probably not Ps first od based on KJ s statement to him in the hospital, it would be naive to think he was not suffering from some sort of neurological damage. This means he probably was not in his right mind that night and not thinking straight.

We never saw him play anything again after the plane incident, did we?

You don't perform CPR on a person who's heart is still beating and still breathing. Doing cpr on prince would be pointless because he was just unconscious

Camileyun said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

You don't perform CPR on a person who's heart is still beating and still breathing. Doing cpr on prince would be pointless because he was just unconscious

The flight crew gave him oxygen. Is that all you can do even when someone is barely breathing, and the pulse is very weak?

yes, administer 2 narcan shots, if required. Which is what was done. Not being sarcastic, that is what was required to bring him 'round.

Camileyun said:

Pay attention to the words "he only just..." I think maybe they were afraid to push him too much or he might double down on his denial to protect his pride etc. This was a confusing chaotic situation and I think everyone wanted Prince to think he was in control so he would get help. Just a hunch. I dont go for conspiracy theories or assumptions about being 'not caring'. So, I avoid them as much as possible until I can't anymore--that's why I sound like I play devil's advocate all the time. Having had two uncles who died as indirect results of alcoholism..there were probably a lot of things my family could have down differently. But my uncles were loved.

Camileyun said:

peggyon said:

I thought I read that he wanted her to stay and watch a movie with him. Not certain if that meant staying longer. I got the sense he wanted her to stay, though he may decided to send her back to LA as he was in damage control at that point.I got the impression that she was a nice, straighforward person.

When LE asked her if, after she left, P. said anything about his future plans to deal with his drug issue, she said "Um well I just kept, I was like telling Phaedra make sure he goes to the doc, like that was...but from him I didn't push it, he only just...these last words from me is you know, something tells me or it feels like your stay here was too short, that's what he told me." This doesn't sound like someone with the confidence to push back on P. Those last words he said to her sound like a cry for help, but I think she was too naive to pick up on it. She did stay and watch movies with him, but later, had to catch a flight. [Edited 7/29/18 10:33am]

The flight crew knew what they were doing. I doubt they wanted the man dead.

Camileyun said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

You don't perform CPR on a person who's heart is still beating and still breathing. Doing cpr on prince would be pointless because he was just unconscious

The flight crew gave him oxygen. Is that all you can do even when someone is barely breathing, and the pulse is very weak?

Strawberrylova123 said:

SkipperLove said:

Thanks for the nuanced account of what its like to deal with addicts. That underlined section is exactly why I don't jump to conclusions about Prince's associates due to the way it turned out. There are a few things I wish I understood better (the secrecy after his death, the leaving him alone) but there might be reasonable explanations.

AnnaStesia10 said:

I can personally attest to the facts that opiods are a hell of a drug. My best friend was addicted to dilaudid pain pills due to a bad back. This damn doctor had him on vicodin then percocet then dilaudid which is the top of the tops in pain pills. Not to mention early on was on a fentanyl pain patch. All for lower back pain-perforated discs. This was around 2011-13 before more of the smack downs on prescriptions. But this doc did not warn or think of the ramifications of these pain meds on my friend. He had to kick fentanyl addiction which taking anything less is not enough cuz tolerance is built up so he was taking more dilaudid pills to make up for it. My friend had to go to rehab and not work for 5 months to kick this shit. And trust he tried and tried on his own. It was hell. This shit is poison and it does have a place for surgeries and for terminal illnesses. But it was and at times still is given out without a plan to ween the patient off of it. My step dad had hip surgery and now is hooked on percocet and they keep giving it to him. All of us his fam and friends are trying to get him off of it and switch to marijuana but he does not want to listen, thinks he is fine and has no problem and has admited he likes that the pills make him feel good with his emotions. These pills are making his pain worse that is what they do and he is not facing his problems my mom died 3 yrs back now he is spiraling. He is stubborn just like I am sure Prince was and the more we try to intervene the more he pulls away from us. A person wont stop no matter what friends and fam try to do because the drugs can take over the mind. Its hard to watch and deal with. These pills are like a double edged sword.

SkipperLove said:

Camileyun said:

precioux said:

Tilikum1983 said:

CatB said: No I noticed this tpo I forget how it is worded but it was April 21st 1996

I wanted to respond to this when CatB first posted this- lest we not forget (bolded), that security guy on 4/21/96....wanna guess who it was? Yep, good ole Kirky J, same 'security gaurd' who carried Prince off of the plane in Moline. FACT

Makes you wonder exactly how many times KJ carried an unconscious Prince to medical help.

Strawberrylova123 said: