I was listening to the last Questlove interview and his old manager stated that P was like a kid and an adult at the same time. She said it in a protective type of way. the investigative files said something about P not knowing where his money was going sometimes. He tried to have control by having folks paying for stuff for him with their credit cards and then he would pay them back. But then they would take cash and do what they wanted. Mayte mentioned him not knowing how underpaid some folks were. Many fans didn't buy it. But really could a man that busy really be as omnipresent as people made him out--even if he tried to be in control and always aware, he had to delegate tasks to a great many others. . But when it comes to his career and management skills, there is a lot of unfinished projects, over-credited people, under-credited people, people paid relatively little, people paid quite well, websites started and stopped, weird distribution deals, changing inconsistent attitudes about the internet, lots of mistakes. Maybe a pop star should just focus on his music and band-leadership and not try to make videos from his home, direct movies, run a production company etc. I think he might have took on way too much, hired too many people (some of whom he didn't know whether to trust or not), spread his budget too thin (sometimes on over-lavish homes he never got to enjoy that seemed more like show places than real homes--3121 parties really were less about fun than about promoting an album). People like some sound engineers, Candy Dulfer, Mara Washington, John BLackwell, Larry Graham (I suspect), Elise Fiorillo and others all said they were paid really well. Others believe they should have been paid and credited more. I wonder if he finally realized at the end of his life that he had taken on too much and tried to downsize..(but it was too late). I reckon Prince was not a particularly good business man and inconsistent and should have just been a musician who worked with studio musicians to get his musical ideas out.

Think about it. This man's music leaked constantly. How much control did he really have? Its like the only thing he really controlled was what he recorded and his ability to be isolated/confounding to those around him ( probably due to trust issues and possible hidden addictions). ..Everything else seemed to be done by decree/delegation and dropped the second he realized it wasn't going well. The fame machine at times seemed to be running without his direct involvement. Remember that interview with Brenda Bennett when she said seeing Prince was difficult even when he wanted to see you (the circles swarming). She did get to see him and had a nice reunion apparently.

[Edited 7/9/18 13:09pm]

SkipperLove said:

I was listening to the last Questlove interview and his old manager stated that P was like a kid and an adult at the same time. She said it in a protective type of way. the investigative files said something about P not knowing where his money was going sometimes. He tried to have control by having folks paying for stuff for him with their credit cards and then he would pay them back. But then they would take cash and do what they wanted. Mayte mentioned him not knowing how underpaid some folks were. Many fans didn't buy it. But really could a man that busy really be as omnipresent as people made him out--even if he tried to be in control and always aware, he had to delegate tasks to a great many others. . But when it comes to his career and management skills, there is a lot of unfinished projects, over-credited people, under-credited people, people paid relatively little, people paid quite well, websites started and stopped, weird distribution deals, changing inconsistent attitudes about the internet, lots of mistakes. Maybe a pop star should just focus on his music and band-leadership and not try to make videos from his home, direct movies, run a production company etc. I think he might have took on way too much, hired too many people (some of whom he didn't know whether to trust or not), spread his budget too thin (sometimes on over-lavish homes he never got to enjoy that seemed more like show places than real homes--3121 parties really were less about fun than about promoting an album). People like some sound engineers, Candy Dulfer, Mara Washington, John BLackwell, Larry Graham (I suspect), Elise Fiorillo and others all said they were paid really well. Others believe they should have been paid and credited more. I wonder if he finally realized at the end of his life that he had taken on too much and tried to downsize..(but it was too late). I reckon Prince was not a particularly good business man and inconsistent and should have just been a musician who worked with studio musicians to get his musical ideas out.

Think about it. This man's music leaked constantly. How much control did he really have? Its like the only thing he really controlled was what he recorded and his ability to be isolated/confounding to those around him ( probably due to trust issues and possible hidden addictions). ..Everything else seemed to be done by decree/delegation and dropped the second he realized it wasn't going well. The fame machine at times seemed to be running without his direct involvement. Remember that interview with Brenda Bennett when she said seeing Prince was difficult even when he wanted to see you (the circles swarming). She did get to see him and had a nice reunion apparently.

well, thought out post...on the other hand, somewhere along the line he got rid of the "experts" that really knew about his businesses and he had plenty of them, enough to go around for rhose that worked for him. He ended up hiring friends when the other ones that had worked for him during his early career had left or he fired. Yes, I believe he took on too much...bought too much, etc...jmo

[Edited 7/9/18 13:09pm]

No one can be good at everything. Even Prince.

Genesia said:

No one can be good at everything. Even Prince.

That's not even the problem here.
We just have to remember how much we're able to pack in one day.
The more busy you are, the more the hours seem to fly by, etc.
The point is: if you're always in the studio, you're always in the studio.
The rest is fatally up to those in charge.


You can't fill both vaults.
You can't serve two masters, etc.
I think he naively set a working system where total openness (well, at least going Prince's direction) or honesty (cough cough) was taking for granted, and whomever would see a bill to pay or something to say would act accordingly.


I never understood why he went after fans instead of embracing them.
The Purple Army would have been a much more effective and commited workforce:
an international network

composed of folks able to say no, because they're on the ground
and know what's currently and actually possible/doable.
That's a lot of trust to put in and a lot power to let go.
But Prince is someone who ended up building his own house, his own life.
I can understand the trauma. That's pretty solitary.
Still, the things we could have done together.

Well, I guess you can't recruit The Most Beautiful Girl In The World
and The Most Beautiful Graphics Designer In The World at the same time, Narcissus.

Some inner circle stupid fuck gained his ear
just by the fact that SKipper was looking at the world through a dormer, or his mirror.
Paisley Park Studios got a baseball court, but it lacked a garden chessboard.
You sometimes gotta seemingly lose some pieces in order to win the game.
MP3 got him all scared. Trojan horses, SKipper. Trojan Horses.
But you knew that. You were just at fault to grow bored of it.


You let them eat you first, it seems you're the loser at first, then a decade later
you're everywhere in their hard drives. Their hearts.

Their body, mind and soul, because that's what music is about. Reaching out.
It was right under your pentip. If you only took time for some actual mountain-climbing,
all by yourself. Was silence such a frightening sight to you?


During the last two years I have the feeling he finally learned the thin difference:
it is a greater and better rewarding challenge to deal, compose, struggle with reality
instead of trying to (hell, foolishly persuading yourself you can) bend it.


In his defence, let's remember how reality must have been a blur to SKipper
since the first stage lights hit him in the .

Life episodes such as Kim Basinger (Kim-fucking-Basinger!) throwing herself at your feet
sounds a bit like sci-fi, Boy or Girl, admit it.
Had they become the norm by then? Of course my friend.


« — Let's Go Craaazay... Less'get nu-uuuuuts...
[A little walk]
— How's the family? »

To stay true to himself and only himself was a survival strategy here.
SKipper got betrayed by BOTH his parents.

Most of us usually get pissed at just one.
A thirteen year old boy got his guts open on the sidewalk
and swore he would never cry again.

Special thanks 2 God, SKipper perjured himself.
No thanks to Prince the previously assumed (formerly known as) control freak.

[Edited 7/10/18 4:06am]

[Edited 7/10/18 4:10am]

[Edited 7/10/18 4:12am]

[Edited 7/10/18 4:30am]

[Edited 7/10/18 4:47am]

SkipperLove said:

I was listening to the last Questlove interview and his old manager stated that P was like a kid and an adult at the same time. She said it in a protective type of way. the investigative files said something about P not knowing where his money was going sometimes. He tried to have control by having folks paying for stuff for him with their credit cards and then he would pay them back. But then they would take cash and do what they wanted. Mayte mentioned him not knowing how underpaid some folks were. Many fans didn't buy it. But really could a man that busy really be as omnipresent as people made him out--even if he tried to be in control and always aware, he had to delegate tasks to a great many others. . But when it comes to his career and management skills, there is a lot of unfinished projects, over-credited people, under-credited people, people paid relatively little, people paid quite well, websites started and stopped, weird distribution deals, changing inconsistent attitudes about the internet, lots of mistakes. Maybe a pop star should just focus on his music and band-leadership and not try to make videos from his home, direct movies, run a production company etc. I think he might have took on way too much, hired too many people (some of whom he didn't know whether to trust or not), spread his budget too thin (sometimes on over-lavish homes he never got to enjoy that seemed more like show places than real homes--3121 parties really were less about fun than about promoting an album). People like some sound engineers, Candy Dulfer, Mara Washington, John BLackwell, Larry Graham (I suspect), Elise Fiorillo and others all said they were paid really well. Others believe they should have been paid and credited more. I wonder if he finally realized at the end of his life that he had taken on too much and tried to downsize..(but it was too late). I reckon Prince was not a particularly good business man and inconsistent and should have just been a musician who worked with studio musicians to get his musical ideas out.

Think about it. This man's music leaked constantly. How much control did he really have? Its like the only thing he really controlled was what he recorded and his ability to be isolated/confounding to those around him ( probably due to trust issues and possible hidden addictions). ..Everything else seemed to be done by decree/delegation and dropped the second he realized it wasn't going well. The fame machine at times seemed to be running without his direct involvement. Remember that interview with Brenda Bennett when she said seeing Prince was difficult even when he wanted to see you (the circles swarming). She did get to see him and had a nice reunion apparently.

[Edited 7/9/18 13:09pm]

I'm really not sure that's the case. The parties were happening through 2005 without any particular promotion.

Another interesting narrative on Prince, the man(child). He did seem to be rather scattered in his approaches to some things like restitutions, project follow-through, assigning people to turn the lights on & vaccum, his women, the particular assignment of religious observances, etc., but like all geniuses, there was a certain method to his madness.

>

He was merely a man. That llittle guy was a mack, though, and did get a lot of things done and kept people moving. He would probably himself admit that he did not have as much "control" over things as he had ever wanted, let alone to consider the amount of control over things that anyone else wanted (or didn't want) of him.

>

At any rate, already he may have admitted this lack of control to ALL of us with the current given affairs of his estate and leaving no will or directives toward "what to do" after was gone. Is that a problem? To some around here, it is, I guess. Such is life!

[Edited 7/10/18 4:34am]

Germanegro said:

Another interesting narrative on Prince, the man(child). He did seem to be rather scattered in his approaches to some things like restitutions, project follow-through, assigning people to turn the lights on & vaccum, his women, the particular assignment of religious observances, etc., but like all geniuses, there was a certain method to his madness.

>

He was merely a man. That llittle guy was a mack, though, and did get a lot of things done and kept people moving. He would probably himself admit that he did not have as much "control" over things as he had ever wanted, let alone to consider the amount of control over things that anyone else wanted (or didn't want) of him.

>

At any rate, already he may have admitted this lack of control to ALL of us with the current given affairs of his estate and leaving no will or directives toward "what to do" after was gone. Is that a problem? To some around here, it is, I guess. Such is life!

[Edited 7/10/18 4:34am]

That's a lighter take than mine.
Go German.

Prince sucked at business.

He assumed that the people he hired were taking care of him and put all of his energy into his work/fantasy world. Even when he realized that he was being taken advantage of, he had no idea how to stop that from happening. He just assumed that everybody was out to rip him off except for the few people that passed his internal test.

Which is kind of funny since the test seemed to be "Can you talk to Prince without an agenda and wait until he gives you a task to do?"

bonatoc said:

Genesia said:

No one can be good at everything. Even Prince.

That's not even the problem here.
We just have to remember how much we're able to pack in one day.
The more busy you are, the more the hours seem to fly by, etc.
The point is: if you're always in the studio, you're always in the studio.
The rest is fatally up to those in charge.


You can't fill both vaults.
You can't serve two masters, etc.
I think he naively set a working system where total openness (well, at least going Prince's direction) or honesty (cough cough) was taking for granted, and whomever would see a bill to pay or something to say would act accordingly.


I never understood why he went after fans instead of embracing them.
The Purple Army would have been a much more effective and commited workforce:
an international network

composed of folks able to say no, because they're on the ground
and know what's currently and actually possible/doable.
That's a lot of trust to put in and a lot power to let go.
But Prince is someone who ended up building his own house, his own life.
I can understand the trauma. That's pretty solitary.
Still, the things we could have done together.

Well, I guess you can't recruit The Most Beautiful Girl In The World
and The Most Beautiful Graphics Designer In The World at the same time, Narcissus.

Some inner circle stupid fuck gained his ear
just by the fact that SKipper was looking at the world through a dormer, or his mirror.
Paisley Park Studios got a baseball court, but it lacked a garden chessboard.
You sometimes gotta seemingly lose some pieces in order to win the game.
MP3 got him all scared. Trojan horses, SKipper. Trojan Horses.
But you knew that. You were just at fault to grow bored of it.


You let them eat you first, it seems you're the loser at first, then a decade later
you're everywhere in their hard drives. Their hearts.

Their body, mind and soul, because that's what music is about. Reaching out.
It was right under your pentip. If you only took time for some actual mountain-climbing,
all by yourself. Was silence such a frightening sight to you?


During the last two years I have the feeling he finally learned the thin difference:
it is a greater and better rewarding challenge to deal, compose, struggle with reality
instead of trying to (hell, foolishly persuading yourself you can) bend it.


In his defence, let's remember how reality must have been a blur to SKipper
since the first stage lights hit him in the .

Life episodes such as Kim Basinger (Kim-fucking-Basinger!) throwing herself at your feet
sounds a bit like sci-fi, Boy or Girl, admit it.
Had they become the norm by then? Of course my friend.


« — Let's Go Craaazay... Less'get nu-uuuuuts...
[A little walk]
— How's the family? »

To stay true to himself and only himself was a survival strategy here.
SKipper got betrayed by BOTH his parents.

Most of us usually get pissed at just one.
A thirteen year old boy got his guts open on the sidewalk
and swore he would never cry again.

Special thanks 2 God, SKipper perjured himself.
No thanks to Prince the previously assumed (formerly known as) control freak.

[Edited 7/10/18 4:06am]

[Edited 7/10/18 4:10am]

[Edited 7/10/18 4:12am]

[Edited 7/10/18 4:30am]

[Edited 7/10/18 4:47am]

He hated the nickname skipper not just hated it...HATED IT, so if you are trying to insult him use it I guess. I'm not sure that you go to such lengths to take care of someone that betrayed you as Prince did in his mother's final years.

Strive said:

Except the part where he hired a private investigator to figure out how City Lights leaked. And suing everybody online to control his image. And suing people who were spreading boots for free. And accusing Alan Leeds of stealing tapes from the vault. And openly pondering if he could sue a former employee he thought was trying to liberate the vault so it wouldn't be lost to time.

Besides all that, he was right on the edge of acceptance.

But all this behavior of Prince's was paranoid reactions to things that he failed to control earlier. HE was not in control no matter how much at times he tried to have it. Plus, who knows if people were bending his ear and encouraging him to place his blame on other people and things than the people and things who were really responsible in the first place. Wanting control is not the same thing as being in control.

Strive said:

Except the part where he hired a private investigator to figure out how City Lights leaked. And suing everybody online to control his image. And suing people who were spreading boots for free. And accusing Alan Leeds of stealing tapes from the vault. And openly pondering if he could sue a former employee he thought was trying to liberate the vault so it wouldn't be lost to time. Besides all that, he was right on the edge of acceptance.

He needed a therapist. A good one. The end.

I know you are being a bit snarky but I honestly agree. He needed help but his eccentricity, fame, etc made it tough.

rdhull said:

He needed a therapist. A good one. The end.

No, I'm not. He needed some long term therapy.

SkipperLove said:

I know you are being a bit snarky

rdhull said:

He needed a therapist. A good one. The end.

sorry.

It occurred to me that even a narcissist knows better than to sue fans, take his work off the internet, call himself a name that can't be spoken, and sabotage his own career. Why didn't people suspect mental illness years ago? I guess Prince was just so damned talented, persuasive, calm, physically "clean", hardworking, and charismatic sometimes that it was hard to believe he didn't know exactly what he was doing. HE didn't have that Wacko Jacko vibe. People thought he was just messing with folks. Maybe he was a little, but i now I suspect that often he wasn't.

rdhull said:

No, I'm not. He needed some long term therapy.

SkipperLove said:

I know you are being a bit snarky

[Edited 7/10/18 21:01pm]

SkipperLove said:

sorry.

It occurred to me that even a narcissist knows better than to sue fans, take his work off the internet, call himself a name that can't be spoken, and sabotage his own career. Why didn't people suspect mental illness years ago? I guess Prince was just so damned talented, persausive, hardworking, and charming sometimes that it was hard to believe he didn't know exactly what he was doing.

rdhull said:

No, I'm not. He needed some long term therapy.

I dont mean that he was psychotic. But he clearly had power and control issues with the etiology from his home life as a child. Not to mention his health issues as a youth and his short stature. A ball of emotional paranoia where he used work as a way to self soothe etc etc. Whereas other things could have been entered into his life. Sure, it gave us a LOT of good music/material, but for him, therapy and forging positive relationships etc were needed and should have been fostered instead imho.

rdhull said:

Sure, it gave us a LOT of good music/material, but for him, therapy and forging positive relationships etc were needed and should have been fostered instead imho.

I agree. He wouldn't be Prince anymore but perhaps a happy person and we might still have him.

Maybe we would have still had the good music and humor. But it would come less frequently and with more time between projects. HEll, maybe his lyrics would have been more profound. Maybe, PRince could have had on and off months. MOnths during which he threw himself completely and utterly into his work. And months in which he went to retreats, therapy sessions, traveled, read all kinds of books, did missionary work and spent time with just non-musicians away from any technology that could record his ideas.. Breaks and then back to the hard work with new insight and inspiration. He talked about studio rehab..but I suspect that just meant throwing himself into the bible and JW study for a couple weeks. He needed real studio rehab and much more frequently than he was apparently getting. .

CatB said:

rdhull said:

Sure, it gave us a LOT of good music/material, but for him, therapy and forging positive relationships etc were needed and should have been fostered instead imho.

I agree. He wouldn't be Prince anymore but perhaps a happy person and we might still have him.

[Edited 7/10/18 21:52pm]

[Edited 7/10/18 21:54pm]

SkipperLove said:

Maybe we would have still had the good music and humor. But it would come less frequently and with more time between projects. HEll, maybe his lyrics would have been more profound. Maybe, PRince could have had on and off months. MOnths during which he threw himself completely and utterly into his work. And months in which he went to retreats, therapy sessions, traveled, read all kinds of books, did missionary work and spent time with just non-musicians away from any technology that could record his ideas..

Yes to all of this. But what I'd always wished for him was a family. Not a musical family but his own family and kids. I think this is one of the saddest aspects of his life, that he never got to experience fatherhood and this unconditional love a child could've given him. Teach him true trust. He may not have been that restless anymore, not that driven to produce and put out music like mad (many musicians liken the studio process to pregnancy and giving birth). I mean good for us that we got all that incredible music but for him ... I so wanted him to be a dad and have that kind of happiness.

Do you think its possible he couldn't have kids? Or is it possible he thought he would be a bad dad? Or is it possible he thought God had punished him by taking his son away so therefore he shouldn't bother. I have read quite a few accounts of Prince liking and being sweet to kids at Paisley and elsewhere. So I don't think he disliked kids.

CatB said:

SkipperLove said:

Maybe we would have still had the good music and humor. But it would come less frequently and with more time between projects. HEll, maybe his lyrics would have been more profound. Maybe, PRince could have had on and off months. MOnths during which he threw himself completely and utterly into his work. And months in which he went to retreats, therapy sessions, traveled, read all kinds of books, did missionary work and spent time with just non-musicians away from any technology that could record his ideas..

Yes to all of this. But what I'd always wished for him was a family. Not a musical family but his own family and kids. I think this is one of the saddest aspects of his life, that he never got to experience fatherhood and this unconditional love a child could've given him. Teach him true trust. He may not have been that restless anymore, not that driven to produce and put out music like mad (many musicians liken the studio process to pregnancy and giving birth). I mean good for us that we got all that incredible music but for him ... I so wanted him to be a dad and have that kind of happiness.

[Edited 7/10/18 22:43pm]

He loved kids but the ones around him were other people's kids. That's not quite the same as the experience you can have with your own children only. Many people don't feel ready or think they might be bad parents but you become a mother/father the moment you actually become a mother/father. No matter what he believed (this theory with the punishment), I am convinced a child would have been good for him as he had been an "orphan" of some kind. Many people who never had loving or present parents say that by mothering their own children they also mothered themselves. It's that symbiosis between you and your child. No matter what fears he may have had, he wanted to be a father and I'm sure it would've been good for him.

SkipperLove said:

Do you think its possible he couldn't have kids? Or is it possible he thought he would be a bad dad? Or is it possible he thought God had punished him by taking his son away so therefore he shouldn't bother. I have read quite a few accounts of Prince liking and being sweet to kids at Paisley and elsewhere. So I don't think he disliked kids.

CatB said:

Yes to all of this. But what I'd always wished for him was a family. Not a musical family but his own family and kids. I think this is one of the saddest aspects of his life, that he never got to experience fatherhood and this unconditional love a child could've given him. Teach him true trust. He may not have been that restless anymore, not that driven to produce and put out music like mad (many musicians liken the studio process to pregnancy and giving birth). I mean good for us that we got all that incredible music but for him ... I so wanted him to be a dad and have that kind of happiness.

There's all kinds of therapy that Prince may have benefited from, had he commanded the will to submit to such plans. The physical-pharmaceutical therapy that he reached for at the very end would have potentially helped to extend his life, at least, had he flushed all the counterfiet pills and had time to submit to controlled treatment. Like many of us, however, his idea was to move mainly by his religious belief, work ethic, and trust in others--this perhaps to a fault at times that ran him into otherwise avoidable trouble. Some psychological therapy might have altered that, who knows? Also, maybe some of his strategies were more wise than some can perceive? At any rate, despite his faith in the great unknown universal order, a certain will to control helped propel him forth in his endeavors, however much some fans may have despised those efforts--a feeling that is coming through this thread like in thousands of others, I guess. Was his life more unbalanced than that of many others? Perhaps. He put the pressure to proceed on himself; some form of therapy might have alleviated that stress. Ultimately, however, his work was his life, despite how much some may regret this. Looking back at his history I'd wished that he'd have found a way to make up with his first wife and settle down a bit in his conquests, but sometimes things move in different directions, aided by the wind at one's back. In the end, we try our best to live our lives the best we can, and "different strokes for different folks" need apply.

SkipperLove said:

sorry.

It occurred to me that even a narcissist knows better than to sue fans, take his work off the internet, call himself a name that can't be spoken, and sabotage his own career. Why didn't people suspect mental illness years ago? I guess Prince was just so damned talented, persausive, hardworking, and charming sometimes that it was hard to believe he didn't know exactly what he was doing.

rdhull said:

No, I'm not. He needed some long term therapy.

I dont mean that he was psychotic. But he clearly had power and control issues with the etiology from his home life as a child. Not to mention his health issues as a youth and his short stature. A ball of emotional paranoia where he used work as a way to self soothe etc etc. Whereas other things could have been entered into his life. Sure, it gave us a LOT of good music/material, but for him, therapy and forging positive relationships etc were needed and should have been fostered instead imho.

rdhull said:

anangellooksdown said:

rogifan said:

anangellooksdown said:

It’s amazing how many people want someone else’s life to be different than it was.
None of us know what God’s will was for Prince.

Yes it is amazing. Perhaps those who can’t find closure over his death and keep beating a dead horse over questions only he can answer are the ones who need some therapy.