thedance said:

NorthC said:

NorthC said:

Oh yeah, the Nude Tour sold like hotcakes, but that was because of the reputation Prince had built with his 1980s tours. Tickets went on sale in the winter of 1989 when the Batman album was past it's peak and there was no new album announced just yet. So it was Prince's reputation as a live artist that sold the tickets. And it's been like that ever since until the day he left us.

Prince always had huge success with his Euro tours though - beginning with the Parade Hit-n-Run shows. Folks there always showed him much love.

rdhull said:

james said:

GB is probably his worst album. Lovesexy one of his best. Seems simple to understand to me!

.

"Lay down your funky weapon"... nuff said!

Many worse than GB... Newpowersoul, Planet Earth, 2010, Musicology

Many better than Lovesexy too, contains too much filler and cheesy songs/ lyrics.

A Prince only GB would be better than those listed, I agree. Certainly waaay better than Newpowersoul!!!

KAB said:

rdhull said:

james said: Many worse than GB... Newpowersoul, Planet Earth, 2010, Musicology

Many better than Lovesexy too, contains too much filler and cheesy songs/ lyrics.

A Prince only GB would be better than those listed, I agree. Certainly waaay better than Newpowersoul!!!

Wasted Kisses.....best song on Newpowersoul

No. Graffiti Bridge has filler. Even if its highs are really great.

TKO said:

No. Graffiti Bridge has filler. Even if its highs are really great.

And even those are rehashes.

Graffiti Bridge is the dawning of Prince's paranoia: "Pardon me for living", "Pardon me for breathing",
"The problem with you and your kind", "The only thing that's in our way is you"...
Who is "you"? Warner? Everyone not listening to Prince?
Lovesexy never had to get belligerent to make its point.

I'll take the fun, frantic, joyful original "Can't Stop This Feeling I Got" any day
instead of the pompous, even if pyrotechnically impressive, version that opens the album.
Prince himself recognizes his blank page crisis, his lack of inspiration
and subsequent frustration ("things didn't turn like I wanted them to").

Not only he had to go back to the Vault in search of songs, but he also explicitly cited Lovesexy
to try giving GB more spiritual cred: The "Alphabet St." intro (ruining the beginning
of "Joy In Repetition" — I need my low toms intro!), and the very end of the album,
going after the rushing waters outro of "Positivity".
Except the synth choir preset sound corny as hell nowadays.
The New Power Generation has taken control, but of what?
Thank God, "The Exodus Has Begun" washed away this presomptuous shit,
with clever, truly vengeful lyrics and a production that doesn't try to bend his ass
to gain a Billboard position. You can't serve two masters.

The fillers have aged pretty bad. Can you listen to The Time songs on GB and not cringe?
Who still has "Round And Round" in her playlist?

In defense of GB, it was a crazy, suicidal move. It sticked to Prince's Lovesexy promise:
"I'll tell your story, no matter how long". It's kinda disappointing he didn't keep it.
Diamonds and Pearls turned his back on spirituality and went for the dollars,
even if "Thunder" tried to convince us otherwise.

The more I think about it, the more I think someone should have kicked Ingrid out of PP right away.
The damages caused to Prince's career by this talentless, savorless woman are drastic.

[Edited 7/21/18 19:07pm]

whenever I hear the song "Can't Stop This Feeling I Got",I sorta expect to hear the line "are we gonna let the elevator bring us down?" the song is very reminscent of Let's Go Crazy.

...

[Edited 7/22/18 11:29am]

PeteSilas said:

NorthC said:

PeteSilas said: I agree that most of the songs on Lovesexy aren't that great, but the music more than makes up for that. I don't see it as a collection of songs, but as one piece of music. "This is not music, this is a trip." Which is why I never understood the folks complaining about the 1 track CD. That's the whole idea behind it! I also agree about Joy In Repetition being great. I heard The Question of U live before the album was out, so I never cared much for the album version. I also love Thieves In the Temple and Still Would Stand All Time, but four great songs on a 17 track album isn't enough to make it a good album in my not-so-humble opinion. Also, being rushed isn't a bad thing. Bob Dylan once recorded an album in one evening.

i hear you, there are some clunkers on graffiti bridge, as far as lovesexy being one track, i assumed it was prince playing his power games, if he was serious about one track, he'd have never released singles. and bob dylan recorded an album in one eveing? was it any good? I can't write a good song without a lot of hard work, either hours or weeks or months i'm talking, before i'm satisfied. I don't know how some people like prince just write songs and release it, i don't get it. they said controversy was done in a week, i'd be very curious to know when the songs were actually written and how much time he had to work on them before he recorded them. If he could, more power to him, but I can't. My best songs on average take two weeks to do all the parts and really, they are never done.

Based on what I have read - most recently in Duane Tudahl's book - Prince often wrote or came up with lyrics while he was recording the instrumental in the studio. Although, I'm guessing with his more complex and elaborate songs, such as Condition Of The Heart, Joy In Repetition, Sometimes It Snows In April, etc, he took more time to pen the words. He wrote and recorded Sheila's album Glamorous Life in one week, per the book. Obviously, it wouldn't be considered his highest quality record, but it was a big success with regard to sales. Many in his camp have said his output was "super human" during that time.

bonatoc said:

TKO said:

No. Graffiti Bridge has filler. Even if its highs are really great.

And even those are rehashes.

Graffiti Bridge is the dawning of Prince's paranoia: "Pardon me for living", "Pardon me for breathing",
"The problem with you and your kind", "The only thing that's in our way is you"...
Who is "you"? Warner? Everyone not listening to Prince?
Lovesexy never had to get belligerent to make its point.

I'll take the fun, frantic, joyful original "Can't Stop This Feeling I Got" any day
instead of the pompous, even if pyrotechnically impressive, version that opens the album.
Prince himself recognizes his blank page crisis, his lack of inspiration
and subsequent frustration ("things didn't turn like I wanted them to").

Not only he had to go back to the Vault in search of songs, but he also explicitly cited Lovesexy
to try giving GB more spiritual cred: The "Alphabet St." intro (ruining the beginning
of "Joy In Repetition" — I need my low toms intro!), and the very end of the album,
going after the rushing waters outro of "Positivity".
Except the synth choir preset sound corny as hell nowadays.
The New Power Generation has taken control, but of what?
Thank God, "The Exodus Has Begun" washed away this presomptuous shit,
with clever, truly vengeful lyrics and a production that doesn't try to bend his ass
to gain a Billboard position. You can't serve two masters.

The fillers have aged pretty bad. Can you listen to The Time songs on GB and not cringe?
Who still has "Round And Round" in her playlist?

In defense of GB, it was a crazy, suicidal move. It sticked to Prince's Lovesexy promise:
"I'll tell your story, no matter how long". It's kinda disappointing he didn't keep it.
Diamonds and Pearls turned his back on spirituality and went for the dollars,
even if "Thunder" tried to convince us otherwise.

The more I think about it, the more I think someone should have kicked Ingrid out of PP right away.
The damages caused to Prince's career by this talentless, savorless woman are drastic.

[Edited 7/21/18 19:07pm]

Was Ingrid really to blame, or was his infamous trip with Ectasy responsible for his directional change? If the accounts from his camp are true, he met her that night, while in the midst of his mind-altering trip. I tend to think she just happened to show up at that particular time, and went along for the ride. However, it appears that her poetic waxing did play a part in his world at that time, so she may be partly to blame for some of the music, but he was writing the film and planning the music well before she arrived on the scene.

*

Another thing to note is that Prince discussed his plans for the GB movie as far back as 1985, during his interview with RS. He was describing an "experience" he had with God during the Dirty Mind tour. He stated, "I'm going to make a movie about it - not the next one, but the one after that".

*

Well, it's true - he sort of "sold out" on D&P, but it wasn't too long before he moved back to the good raunchy music. I love the Come album

violetcrush said:

Was Ingrid really to blame, or was his infamous trip with Ectasy responsible for his directional change?

If the accounts from his camp are true, he met her that night, while in the midst of his mind-altering trip. I tend to think she just happened to show up at that particular time, and went along for the ride.

However, it appears that her poetic waxing did play a part in his world at that time, so she may be partly to blame for some of the music, but he was writing the film and planning the music well before she arrived on the scene.

I don't held her responsible. I think Prince was in a fragile emotional state, and I don't think she maneuvered him,
only that she was not what he needed at this point in his life.
Hey, if Prince digs you, you'd be a fool not to indulge in the situation.

Prince's work ethics have been often more a curse than a blessing. This incapacity to stay put for a while and digest things
resulted in incoherent U-turns and distorted views, both in his career choices and his personal life.

While I'm thankful for Lovesexy and the Xanadu/TAFKAP years, for their optimistic naiveness and their brash doctrine,
I can't help but think it's the decade Prince mentions in "The Breakdown". The nineties are fascinating if you consider
the energy Prince put in them, but they are also creepy because of all the paranoia and self-righteousness.
GB started this "us vs. them" (more like "me vs. them") thing, and it's really not the best aspect of Prince's career.

A lot of the nineties studio work produced is great just to fans,
because they're unseparable from his evolution, from the whole journey.
But we can appreciate them in a proper fashion only because of what happened before and what followed.
To a non-fan, this decade is kind of repelling and ludicrous.
And let's admit it, we were all glad to see him finally overcoming
his megalomania as the new millenium began. Apart from the zealots,
the fanbase reaction was largely "he lost it", and with good reasons.

It's like it took him a decade to actually become
the spiritual-awaken human being he claimed to have become in GB, or as far as 1985.
The theorics were there early, but it took a decade to really turn them into practice.

Then again, when surrounded by enablers, yes men and everyone else still hailing you as the sole pop genius
even when your production is so-so, I don't see how Prince could have distanced from himself.
You could hold his work ethics as solely responsible for him spending his whole life in the studio,
but there's also a less pretty possibility: the real world scared the shit out of him
because of his incapacity to control it, and spending all day, all night in the studio
to vicariously living imaginary life episodes through songs was the perfect way to shun life as we "mere mortals" know it.

[Edited 7/22/18 8:08am]

bonatoc said:

violetcrush said:

Was Ingrid really to blame, or was his infamous trip with Ectasy responsible for his directional change?

If the accounts from his camp are true, he met her that night, while in the midst of his mind-altering trip. I tend to think she just happened to show up at that particular time, and went along for the ride.

However, it appears that her poetic waxing did play a part in his world at that time, so she may be partly to blame for some of the music, but he was writing the film and planning the music well before she arrived on the scene.

A lot of the nineties studio work produced is great just to fans,
because they're an unseparable from his evolution, from the whole journey.
But we can appreciate it in a proper fashion only because of what happened before and what followed.
To a non-fan, this decade is kind of repelling and ludicrous.
And let's admit it, we were all glad to see him finally overcoming
his megalomania as the new millenium began.

Wrong. The 90's were deplorable to longtime fans. Who were there in the 80's. That's why everbody creams their jeans regarding The Gold Experience, because it seemed a touch of the 80's Prince in it's inspiration. Most of yall are mama jammas who came up in the 90's with Prince and didnt experience the mystery/magic of the integral 80's material...AS IT HAPPENED. There's something to that.

rdhull said:

Wrong. The 90's were deplorable to longtime fans. Who were there in the 80's.

That's why everbody creams their jeans regarding The Gold Experience, because it seemed a touch of the 80's Prince in it's inspiration. Most of yall are mama jammas who came up in the 90's with Prince and didnt experience the mystery/magic of the integral 80's material...AS IT HAPPENED. There's something to that.

I just said so.
When I say "great", it's in retrospective. It was a fucked-up, but nonetheless enjoyable ride.
When Prince misstepped, he always did it in a flamboyant way.
You didn't leave the building yourself, or you wouldn't be here.

And for the record, I was there "as it happened", mama. "Purple Rain" is the first LP I bought.
What is it with you always in my hair? You really like me that much, huh?

The only problem is GB is a soundtrack with many associates artists tracks. Whereas Lovesexy was a cohesive Prince album. I love GB too but it is third to PR and UTCM. I kinda wish Ingrid Chavez had another album to promote that tied into GB.

rdhull said:

paulludvig said:

rdhull said:

Wrong. The 90's were deplorable to longtime fans. Who were there in the 80's. That's why everbody creams their jeans regarding The Gold Experience, because it seemed a touch of the 80's Prince in it's inspiration. Most of yall are mama jammas who came up in the 90's with Prince and didnt experience the mystery/magic of the integral 80's material...AS IT HAPPENED. There's something to that.

What's great about The Gold Experience? A low point in his career imo.

I've already said why. In the quote you just replied to.

bonatoc said:

rdhull said:

Wrong. The 90's were deplorable to longtime fans. Who were there in the 80's.

That's why everbody creams their jeans regarding The Gold Experience, because it seemed a touch of the 80's Prince in it's inspiration. Most of yall are mama jammas who came up in the 90's with Prince and didnt experience the mystery/magic of the integral 80's material...AS IT HAPPENED. There's something to that.

I just said so.
When I say "great", it's in retrospective. It was a fucked-up, but nonetheless enjoyable ride.
When Prince misstepped, he always did it in a flamboyant way.
You didn't leave the building yourself, or you wouldn't be here.

And for the record, I was there "as it happened", mama. "Purple Rain" is the first LP I bought.
What is it with you always in my hair? You really like me that much, huh?

Always in your hair? Dude, your everywhere saying ridiculous things! Dont makei t seem like your being stalked cause you post all over the place and I responded only twice to some crazy things you said.

rdhull said:

paulludvig said:

rdhull said:

I've already said why. In the quote you just replied to.

But it doesn't sound inspired at all? One of his most conventional albums.

It sounded like he actually gave a shit especially after the lackluster C&D, COME (I dont care how the org rewrites history lol), bland D&P, etc. It's anything BUT conventional. D&P and Symbol are conventonal collection songs imho. GOLD had more inspiration thn the others which were simply de rigueur of his contract.

rdhull said:

bonatoc said:

rdhull said:

Wrong. The 90's were deplorable to longtime fans. Who were there in the 80's.

That's why everbody creams their jeans regarding The Gold Experience, because it seemed a touch of the 80's Prince in it's inspiration. Most of yall are mama jammas who came up in the 90's with Prince and didnt experience the mystery/magic of the integral 80's material...AS IT HAPPENED. There's something to that.

I just said so.
When I say "great", it's in retrospective. It was a fucked-up, but nonetheless enjoyable ride.
When Prince misstepped, he always did it in a flamboyant way.
You didn't leave the building yourself, or you wouldn't be here.

And for the record, I was there "as it happened", mama. "Purple Rain" is the first LP I bought.
What is it with you always in my hair? You really like me that much, huh?

rdhull: I was in highschool when Purple Rain was released, so I was also around as the Prince explosion happened. I was blasting Little Red Corvette and 1999 in the car well before PR came out as well. Loved the MTV videos for those songs too. I actually left his music duirng the 90's, because like many, I didn't get or like what he was doing. However, going back and really listening to Gold Exp, there are a couple of great tracks on that album - 319, and I Hate U are really good in my opinion. I also love the Come album, but don't care for the Love Symbol album. But yes, his good output was few and far between compared to the 80's.

*

Looking back at the footage of him during the 90's, he really did have an F you attitude. He just looked pissed all the time. A complete 180 from his stage presence in the 80's - just night and day. He was really struggling with no longer being on top, and losing many of his fans.

[Edited 7/22/18 9:52am]

violetcrush said:

bonatoc said:

I just said so.
When I say "great", it's in retrospective. It was a fucked-up, but nonetheless enjoyable ride.
When Prince misstepped, he always did it in a flamboyant way.
You didn't leave the building yourself, or you wouldn't be here.

And for the record, I was there "as it happened", mama. "Purple Rain" is the first LP I bought.
What is it with you always in my hair? You really like me that much, huh?

rdhull: I was in highschool when Purple Rain was released, so I was also around as the Prince explosion happened. I was blasting Little Red Corvette and 1999 in the car well before PR came out as well. Loved the MTV videos for those songs too. I actually left his music duirng the 90's, because like many, I didn't get or like what he was doing. However, going back and really listening to Gold Exp, there are a couple of great tracks on that album - 319, and I Hate U are really good in my opinion. I also love the Come album, but don't care for the Love Symbol album. But yes, his good output was few and far between compared to the 80's.

*

Looking back at the footage of him during the 90's, he really did have an F you attitude. He just looked pissed all the time. A complete 180 from his stage presence in the 80's - just night and day. He was really struggling with no longer being on top, and losing many of his fans.

[Edited 7/22/18 9:52am]

That battle with WB took a toll on him and influenced his music/performances. Not to mention he caved to hip-hop where before he criticized it (Dead On t Krush Groove ). It wasn't just an F you attitude but almost a "walls are closing in, where do I stand in this brve new world" state of being.

To be honest, his 90's material could be entirely erased and his legen would still stand. There's nothing in the 90's that became integral to his make up. Yeah its all "part of his/our journey" but ...

rdhull said:

rdhull said:

That battle with WB took a toll on him and influenced his music/performances. Not to mention he caved to hip-hop where before he criticized it (Dead On t Krush Groove ). It wasn't just an F you attitude but almost a "walls are closing in, where do I stand in this brve new world" state of being.

To be honest, his 90's material could be entirely erased and his legen would still stand. There's nothing in the 90's that became integral to his make up. Yeah its all "part of his/our journey" but ...

The battle with WB really got heated around Sign o the Times. That was straight from Prince's mouth. In my opinion, if the internet was in full blossom around the time he signed the 90s deal with WB he may have never signed and gone independent. I think we all felt like he was handing over subpar material to get out of WB deal. WB mishandled the entire battle as well. I believe if they set up where Prince could release as much material as possible it would not have sold as well and eventually, Prince would have understood the problem with releasing whatever, whenever or possibly he would not have tried to release subpar material. True the 90s material could have never happened and he would still be a legend but the entire name change and the battle for independence from record cos will go down as a huge part of Prince's legend and story. It is sort of like Lovesexy has a story to it with black album and trip and WB pulling an album which adds to Legend. GB, on the other hand, could have never happened and is on par with 90s material not released.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

rdhull said:

That battle with WB took a toll on him and influenced his music/performances. Not to mention he caved to hip-hop where before he criticized it (Dead On t Krush Groove ). It wasn't just an F you attitude but almost a "walls are closing in, where do I stand in this brve new world" state of being.

To be honest, his 90's material could be entirely erased and his legen would still stand. There's nothing in the 90's that became integral to his make up. Yeah its all "part of his/our journey" but ...

The battle with WB really got heated around Sign o the Times. That was straight from Prince's mouth. In my opinion, if the internet was in full blossom around the time he signed the 90s deal with WB he may have never signed and gone independent. I think we all felt like he was handing over subpar material to get out of WB deal. WB mishandled the entire battle as well. I believe if they set up where Prince could release as much material as possible it would not have sold as well and eventually, Prince would have understood the problem with releasing whatever, whenever or possibly he would not have tried to release subpar material. True the 90s material could have never happened and he would still be a legend but the entire name change and the battle for independence from record cos will go down as a huge part of Prince's legend and story. It is sort of like Lovesexy has a story to it with black album and trip and WB pulling an album which adds to Legend. GB, on the other hand, could have never happened and is on par with 90s material not released.

He was definitely not happy with WB regarding the decision with Crystal Ball, but I don't think that is when the major battles started. He signed that huge deal, because Madonna and someone else (can't remember who) had just signed huge deals, and he wanted a bigger headline. As most people in his camp have stated, he was extremely competitive. He wanted the biggest deal. The records were not making the sales numbers that had been projected, so he began blaming WB for how they were marketing the music as the cause for the lower sales volume. The real battle started when WB told him he would not have ownership of his prior recordings. Then he began writing "slave" on his face, and publicly speaking out about musicians having ownership of their work - "if you don't own your masters, your masters own you"....and on that front he was correct.

rdhull said:

violetcrush said:

rdhull: I was in highschool when Purple Rain was released, so I was also around as the Prince explosion happened. I was blasting Little Red Corvette and 1999 in the car well before PR came out as well. Loved the MTV videos for those songs too. I actually left his music duirng the 90's, because like many, I didn't get or like what he was doing. However, going back and really listening to Gold Exp, there are a couple of great tracks on that album - 319, and I Hate U are really good in my opinion. I also love the Come album, but don't care for the Love Symbol album. But yes, his good output was few and far between compared to the 80's.

*

Looking back at the footage of him during the 90's, he really did have an F you attitude. He just looked pissed all the time. A complete 180 from his stage presence in the 80's - just night and day. He was really struggling with no longer being on top, and losing many of his fans.

[Edited 7/22/18 9:52am]

That battle with WB took a toll on him and influenced his music/performances. Not to mention he caved to hip-hop where before he criticized it (Dead On t Krush Groove ). It wasn't just an F you attitude but almost a "walls are closing in, where do I stand in this brve new world" state of being.

To be honest, his 90's material could be entirely erased and his legen would still stand.

There's nothing in the 90's that became integral to his make up. Yeah its all "part of his/our journey" but ...

We tend to forget it because it seems like aeons ago, but we can't underestimate his pioneering in independent digital music distribution. Some lost $ 77.77 in the adventure, but still, at the time, it was revolutionary.
And the first websites were really something, technically speaking.

bonatoc said:

rdhull said:

That battle with WB took a toll on him and influenced his music/performances. Not to mention he caved to hip-hop where before he criticized it (Dead On t Krush Groove ). It wasn't just an F you attitude but almost a "walls are closing in, where do I stand in this brve new world" state of being.

To be honest, his 90's material could be entirely erased and his legen would still stand.

There's nothing in the 90's that became integral to his make up. Yeah its all "part of his/our journey" but ...

We tend to forget it because it seems like aeons ago, but we can't underestimate his pioneering in independent digital music distribution. Some lost $ 77.77 in the adventure, but still, at the time, it was revolutionary.
And the first websites were really something, technically speaking.

Yes, his energy and focus was less on making the music, and more on the business of distributing his music. Michael Bland stated they would get to PP for rehearsal, and it would end up being Prince talking for hours about the conflict with WB, and how to get the music out without them.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

rdhull said:

That battle with WB took a toll on him and influenced his music/performances. Not to mention he caved to hip-hop where before he criticized it (Dead On t Krush Groove ). It wasn't just an F you attitude but almost a "walls are closing in, where do I stand in this brve new world" state of being.

To be honest, his 90's material could be entirely erased and his legen would still stand. There's nothing in the 90's that became integral to his make up. Yeah its all "part of his/our journey" but ...

The battle with WB really got heated around Sign o the Times.

No, it got really heated in the 90's. Hence the infamous battle/slave era. SOTT may have been the beginnings but it was nothing like the 90's. C'mon.