violetcrush said:

Doozer said:

That was kind of my point - it wasn’t “all Prince.” He had a story but it molded into something that would work as a movie with the help of someone else. To the O.P.’s question as to whether or not the character is a VERY accurate portrayal of Prince (with VERY in all caps), the answer is no. It came from his mind, was brought to life on screen by him and many others, but doesn’t hinge itself on the reality of who Prince was as a person. OldFriends4Sale said:

I don't think the story and concept was brought to the screen by "many others" though. It was mainly his inspiration, idea, and story. Susannah was going to be the lead with him, so I think in his mind the story was sort of a parallel to his experience - albeit a dramatic one set in a different place and time period. She said he just wanted to make another movie, and he began writing the scenes and devloping the music for the film. I actually think they should have given Susannah a try at the role - at least the romantic scenes would have been real. The kissing scenes are just not good, and are very forced.

Just found a more recent article by Balder & Dash - "New Position: A Defense Of Under The Cherry Moon" - published 5/16, and discussing the better aspects of the film. Here is a portion of the article. I bolded the comments relating to the concept for the film:

*

"However, the throwback visuals are more than just a stylistic ploy. By taking a film that looks and feels as if Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers will be popping up for a musical number and then placing someone like Prince—a creature who would never have been admitted into the star pantheon of that era for any number of reasons—in the middle of it all, it offers up a subtextual tension that plays nicely with the more overt conflict between the outside Christopher and the closed world of money and privilege in which Mary resides, even if she herself does not completely embody it.

The music was perversely released on vinyl with the title “Parade” rather than the name of the film it was featured in. The blend of funk, rock and dance sounds mixed together with both American and European sensibilities was underrated at the time (although a hit by any normal standards, "Parade" did not come close to the sales of “Purple Rain,’” and the electrifying “Kiss” was the only big single off of it) but it plays beautifully today. Oddly, the music was de-emphasized in the film—Thomas gets to perform an on-screen musical number before Prince does—and it is only when you listen to the full album that you can fully realize how strong the songs are. (This is most evident with “Sometimes It Snows In April,” which in the film underscores one of the most awkward moments but comes to full emotional life when heard on its own.) The lack of full-scale musical numbers is especially strange when you consider that this is a movie practically begging to burst out into full-scale production numbers throughout. Like the film, the soundtrack is a strange and lovely meditation of life, love and death that is shot through with a lot of humor and which finds Prince pursuing his own distinct personal vision, no matter what the possible commercial repercussions might have been.

As it turned out, those repercussions would prove to be somewhat severe because when “Under the Cherry Moon” premiered, it was largely lambasted by critics (though a few critics, including J. Hoberman, were brave enough to defend it); when audiences discovered that it was a Prince film that was in black-and-white, that he didn’t sing much and that wasn’t “Purple Rain 2,” they stayed away. To be fair, even if the film had been a more conventional outing, there is a good chance that it still would have failed, as while “Purple Rain” was released at a time when the Hollywood/MTV crossover was at its zenith, this one happened to come at a time when the marketplace was glutted with films starring rock stars who were being rejected by even their most ardent fans—it came out a couple of weeks afterDavid Bowie turned up in the Jim Henson fantasy “Labyrinth” and a few weeks before the infamous Madonna bomb “Shanghai Surprise.”

[Edited 7/5/18 10:22am]

Doozer said:

That was kind of my point - it wasn’t “all Prince.” He had a story but it molded into something that would work as a movie with the help of someone else. To the O.P.’s question as to whether or not the character is a VERY accurate portrayal of Prince (with VERY in all caps), the answer is no. It came from his mind, was brought to life on screen by him and many others, but doesn’t hinge itself on the reality of who Prince was as a person. OldFriends4Sale said:

yeah, but she just took when Prince composed and put it in screenplay. Just like was done with Purple Rain.
Susannah Melvoin talked about being with Prince in France writing it and putting it together. That is also why Prince originally wanted Susannah in the film.

Under the Cherry Moon could only be created by Prince.

It pretty much was 95% Prince though.

.

No I don't think the character is an accurate portrait of Prince either.

I think he sorta pulled from Morris Day & Jerome from Purple Rain.
The movie UTCM would have been way better if he was a struggling artist in France with a band of artists/musicians. Have Mary Sharon go 'uptown' instead of Prince trying to break into the upper class.

The video for Girls & Boys would have been perfect in the movie.

Christopher and his band of musicians hired to work Mary's Birthday party would make more sense at him and Tricky being there, than them just showing up.
Prince & The Family perform High Fashion
Prince & the Revolution perform New Position, with Jill perform Mia Bocca

Have his musicians working at Venus De Milo, performing Alexa de Paris in the background while Christopher tries to dance with Mary.
Sheila E and band in a dark bar on the other side of town performing A Love Bizarre, maybe in that bar where they saw the bats

OldFriends4Sale said:

Doozer said:

That was kind of my point - it wasn’t “all Prince.” He had a story but it molded into something that would work as a movie with the help of someone else. To the O.P.’s question as to whether or not the character is a VERY accurate portrayal of Prince (with VERY in all caps), the answer is no. It came from his mind, was brought to life on screen by him and many others, but doesn’t hinge itself on the reality of who Prince was as a person. OldFriends4Sale said:

It pretty much was 95% Prince though.

.

No I don't think the character is an accurate portrait of Prince either.

I think he sorta pulled from Morris Day & Jerome from Purple Rain.
The movie UTCM would have been way better if he was a struggling artist in France with a band of artists/musicians. Have Mary Sharon go 'uptown' instead of Prince trying to break into the upper class.

The video for Girls & Boys would have been perfect in the movie.

Christopher and his band of musicians hired to work Mary's Birthday party would make more sense at him and Tricky being there, than them just showing up.
Prince & The Family perform High Fashion
Prince & the Revolution perform New Position, with Jill perform Mia Bocca

Have his musicians working at Venus De Milo, performing Alexa de Paris in the background while Christopher tries to dance with Mary.
Sheila E and band in a dark bar on the other side of town performing A Love Bizarre, maybe in that bar where they saw the bats

I think he wanted the film to be a love story from his perspective - he was focusing on the two characters - boy from the hood vs. girl from a more priviledged backround. He didn't want another band focused movie. It was sort of his personal story at the time, minus the extra dramatic pieces. Purple Rain was the same - minus some of the fictional family drama. Prince developed that idea too, but had to allow (thankfully) a more experienced screenwriter and director to help him tell his story. I know Becky Johnston was the Screenwriter, but I have no doubt her work followed his vision for the film.

violetcrush said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

It pretty much was 95% Prince though.

.

No I don't think the character is an accurate portrait of Prince either.

I think he sorta pulled from Morris Day & Jerome from Purple Rain.
The movie UTCM would have been way better if he was a struggling artist in France with a band of artists/musicians. Have Mary Sharon go 'uptown' instead of Prince trying to break into the upper class.

The video for Girls & Boys would have been perfect in the movie.

Christopher and his band of musicians hired to work Mary's Birthday party would make more sense at him and Tricky being there, than them just showing up.
Prince & The Family perform High Fashion
Prince & the Revolution perform New Position, with Jill perform Mia Bocca

Have his musicians working at Venus De Milo, performing Alexa de Paris in the background while Christopher tries to dance with Mary.
Sheila E and band in a dark bar on the other side of town performing A Love Bizarre, maybe in that bar where they saw the bats

I think he wanted the film to be a love story from his perspective - he was focusing on the two characters - boy from the hood vs. girl from a more priviledged backround. He didn't want another band focused movie. It was sort of his personal story at the time, minus the extra dramatic pieces. Purple Rain was the same - minus some of the fictional family drama. Prince developed that idea too, but had to allow (thankfully) a more experienced screenwriter and director to help him tell his story. I know Becky Johnston was the Screenwriter, but I have no doubt her work followed his vision for the film.

Apparently, I"m not alone on my opinion of the lackluster love scenes - here's a piece about that from the Balder & Dash article:

*

"The performances are all over the place, ranging from the barely-there underacting by Kristin Scott Thomas (who was a replacement for Prince’s then-girlfriend Susannah Melvin, originally cast in the part—a rumor that Madonna was considered for the part as sends the mind reeling) to the scenery-chewing histrionics of Berkoff (who was also a replacement when the originally cast Terrence Stamp quit early in the production). The romantic chemistry between the two leads is practically nonexistent, which works in the early scenes when Mary is keeping Christopher at arms length, but not so much in the later scenes when they are supposed to be in love. Frankly, there is more genuine chemistry between Christopher and his cohort Tricky throughout, which adds an intriguing layer to the proceedings (and there is the insinuation that they have engaged in threesomes with their sexy landlord in order to beat paying the rent), it has the effect of making Mary seem like the beard than the object of desire."

it's still crazy that he was allowed to run rampant with the production. He did have the hit with PR but that wasn't all him, he had a screenwriter, a director there. UTCM is what's called in hollywood a "vanity project" which is a project that the studios threw at a big star just to keep him happy but not really expecting much of it. the strange thing is, it usually takes a big track record to get one of those, Eddie Murphy did his with Harlem Nights which was killed by the critics, and he also had a slew of blockbuster hits before that. Bruce Lee, in hong kong had to have two huge hits before he was given the chance to make his hong kong version of a vanity film, because of course everyone imitates how it's done in hollywood. Prince only had one hit film, it's amazing he was given that much leeway.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Doozer said:

That was kind of my point - it wasn’t “all Prince.” He had a story but it molded into something that would work as a movie with the help of someone else. To the O.P.’s question as to whether or not the character is a VERY accurate portrayal of Prince (with VERY in all caps), the answer is no. It came from his mind, was brought to life on screen by him and many others, but doesn’t hinge itself on the reality of who Prince was as a person. OldFriends4Sale said:

It pretty much was 95% Prince though.

.

No I don't think the character is an accurate portrait of Prince either.

I think he sorta pulled from Morris Day & Jerome from Purple Rain.
The movie UTCM would have been way better if he was a struggling artist in France with a band of artists/musicians. Have Mary Sharon go 'uptown' instead of Prince trying to break into the upper class.

The video for Girls & Boys would have been perfect in the movie.

Christopher and his band of musicians hired to work Mary's Birthday party would make more sense at him and Tricky being there, than them just showing up.
Prince & The Family perform High Fashion
Prince & the Revolution perform New Position, with Jill perform Mia Bocca

Have his musicians working at Venus De Milo, performing Alexa de Paris in the background while Christopher tries to dance with Mary.
Sheila E and band in a dark bar on the other side of town performing A Love Bizarre, maybe in that bar where they saw the bats

PeteSilas said:

it's still crazy that he was allowed to run rampant with the production. He did have the hit with PR but that wasn't all him, he had a screenwriter, a director there. UTCM is what's called in hollywood a "vanity project" which is a project that the studios threw at a big star just to keep him happy but not really expecting much of it. the strange thing is, it usually takes a big track record to get one of those, Eddie Murphy did his with Harlem Nights which was killed by the critics, and he also had a slew of blockbuster hits before that. Bruce Lee, in hong kong had to have two huge hits before he was given the chance to make his hong kong version of a vanity film, because of course everyone imitates how it's done in hollywood. Prince only had one hit film, it's amazing he was given that much leeway.

OldFriends4Sale said:

It pretty much was 95% Prince though.

.

No I don't think the character is an accurate portrait of Prince either.

I think he sorta pulled from Morris Day & Jerome from Purple Rain.
The movie UTCM would have been way better if he was a struggling artist in France with a band of artists/musicians. Have Mary Sharon go 'uptown' instead of Prince trying to break into the upper class.

The video for Girls & Boys would have been perfect in the movie.

Christopher and his band of musicians hired to work Mary's Birthday party would make more sense at him and Tricky being there, than them just showing up.
Prince & The Family perform High Fashion
Prince & the Revolution perform New Position, with Jill perform Mia Bocca

Have his musicians working at Venus De Milo, performing Alexa de Paris in the background while Christopher tries to dance with Mary.
Sheila E and band in a dark bar on the other side of town performing A Love Bizarre, maybe in that bar where they saw the bats

But remember also - WB spent only $7 mill to make PR, but it grossed $80 mill worldwide. That is HUGE, especially for that time period. Prince was then able to say "jump", and the WB execs were saying, "how high?". Also, the basic storyline for PR was still Prince working with Albert Magnoli to approve his vision, however, I think the big difference was how they filmed the story, and of course, the amazing work with the "live" performance scenes.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

it's still crazy that he was allowed to run rampant with the production. He did have the hit with PR but that wasn't all him, he had a screenwriter, a director there. UTCM is what's called in hollywood a "vanity project" which is a project that the studios threw at a big star just to keep him happy but not really expecting much of it. the strange thing is, it usually takes a big track record to get one of those, Eddie Murphy did his with Harlem Nights which was killed by the critics, and he also had a slew of blockbuster hits before that. Bruce Lee, in hong kong had to have two huge hits before he was given the chance to make his hong kong version of a vanity film, because of course everyone imitates how it's done in hollywood. Prince only had one hit film, it's amazing he was given that much leeway.

But remember also - WB spent only $7 mill to make PR, but it grossed $80 mill worldwide. That is HUGE, especially for that time period. Prince was then able to say "jump", and the WB execs were saying, "how high?". Also, the basic storyline for PR was still Prince working with Albert Magnoli to approve his vision, however, I think the big difference was how they filmed the story, and of course, the amazing work with the "live" performance scenes.

Also, he had the "double whammy" of the huge album sales. He was a money making machine for WB at that time....

one film is still kinda unheard of, look at Eddie murphy or anyone else, they had a ton of films before they were just handed something to fuck up.

PeteSilas said:

one film is still kinda unheard of, look at Eddie murphy or anyone else, they had a ton of films before they were just handed something to fuck up.

Yes, but Prince also had his huge recording success along with it, so I think they were more willing to give him more control. Although, it has been written that they were extremely worried during the filming process, but it was too late by that point. His Italian managment trio sure took advantage of the cash flow with the Yacht purchase and renting a celebrity's Villa in St Vincent De Paul

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

one film is still kinda unheard of, look at Eddie murphy or anyone else, they had a ton of films before they were just handed something to fuck up.

Yes, but Prince also had his huge recording success along with it, so I think they were more willing to give him more control. Although, it has been written that they were extremely worried during the filming process, but it was too late by that point. His Italian managment trio sure took advantage of the cash flow with the Yacht purchase and renting a celebrity's Villa in St Vincent De Paul

where did you hear that? about the management? you think he was ripped off by them?

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, but Prince also had his huge recording success along with it, so I think they were more willing to give him more control. Although, it has been written that they were extremely worried during the filming process, but it was too late by that point. His Italian managment trio sure took advantage of the cash flow with the Yacht purchase and renting a celebrity's Villa in St Vincent De Paul

where did you hear that? about the management? you think he was ripped off by them?

Oh no, I don't think they ripped him off. I'm sure they used their money, but because they were in Nice, Bob Cavallo was able to get some kind of great deal with the Yacht, and then had it moved to Miami when filming was done. The Villa was actually used by Prince and his group, but the budget was paying for it. I think Jerome said it was Joan Collins or Jackie Collins private home. The information about the Yacht purchase was written in Alan Light's or Matt Thorne's book - can't remember which one - I think Alan's, because he interviewed Bob for the Purple Rain details.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

where did you hear that? about the management? you think he was ripped off by them?

Oh no, I don't think they ripped him off. I'm sure they used their money, but because they were in Nice, Bob Cavallo was able to get some kind of great deal with the Yacht, and then had it moved to Miami when filming was done. The Villa was actually used by Prince and his group, but the budget was paying for it. I think Jerome said it was Joan Collins or Jackie Collins private home. The information about the Yacht purchase was written in Alan Light's or Matt Thorne's book - can't remember which one - I think Alan's, because he interviewed Bob for the Purple Rain details.

it has been said that he was ripped off, i guess with that much money, someone is always going to claim that and there is always going to be a kernel of truth to it for the people that aren't actually under the lights.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

where did you hear that? about the management? you think he was ripped off by them?

Oh no, I don't think they ripped him off. I'm sure they used their money, but because they were in Nice, Bob Cavallo was able to get some kind of great deal with the Yacht, and then had it moved to Miami when filming was done. The Villa was actually used by Prince and his group, but the budget was paying for it. I think Jerome said it was Joan Collins or Jackie Collins private home. The information about the Yacht purchase was written in Alan Light's or Matt Thorne's book - can't remember which one - I think Alan's, because he interviewed Bob for the Purple Rain details.

Paul Petereson and Susannah, along with Jerome did a Facebook Live stream back in February. Really great video if you haven't seen it. It's on the fDeluxe FB page. They were talking about the past and taking questions from FB viewers. They were asked about filming UTCM. Jerome mentioned the Villa in St Vincent De Paul, and Susannah said she has a really funny story about snorkeling with Prince in Nice. I would LOVE to hear that story - CANNOT picture him frollicking in the water looking at marine life

erik319 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

It's very accurate, except:

He didn't hustle people out of their money

Nah that took another 20 years. Just ask the makers of the 3121 perfume & the 37 people who signed up to L0tu$£uckup.com

100% ACCURATE

Doozer said:

Prince himself said of UTCM: “I learned that I can’t direct.”

I fixed it for him.

steakfinger said:

Doozer said:

Prince himself said of UTCM: “I learned that I can’t direct.”

I fixed it for him.

When did Prince give that comment? Just curious...

violetcrush said:

steakfinger said:

I fixed it for him.

When did Prince give that comment? Just curious...

Steakfinger is having fun editing my post, which originally read that Prince made the comment, "I learned that I can't direct what I didn't write." Steakfinger omitted "what I didn't write" to make a point about Prince's directorial skills.

Prince's quote is from a news article with him relfecting on the UTCM film, I believe from 89/90 when he was working on Grafitti Bridge. Here's a link to the pull quote:

https://books.google.com/...Q6AEILTAB

[Edited 7/5/18 15:07pm]

Doozer said:

violetcrush said:

When did Prince give that comment? Just curious...

Steakfinger is having fun editing my post, which originally read that Prince made the comment, "I learned that I can't direct what I didn't write." Steakfinger omitted "what I didn't write" to make a point about Prince's directorial skills.

Prince's quote is from a news article with him relfecting on the UTCM film, I believe from 89/90 when he was working on Grafitti Bridge. Here's a link to the pull quote:

https://books.google.com/...Q6AEILTAB

[Edited 7/5/18 15:07pm]

Ahhh, okay. Missed that edit..

Doozer said:

violetcrush said:

When did Prince give that comment? Just curious...

Steakfinger is having fun editing my post, which originally read that Prince made the comment, "I learned that I can't direct what I didn't write." Steakfinger omitted "what I didn't write" to make a point about Prince's directorial skills.

Prince's quote is from a news article with him relfecting on the UTCM film, I believe from 89/90 when he was working on Grafitti Bridge. Here's a link to the pull quote:

https://books.google.com/...Q6AEILTAB

[Edited 7/5/18 15:07pm]

it's funny but stephen berkoff, a professional actor said that Prince directed well. He also described him as pretty demanding with the script, wanting every word in and that the sound of Prince's heels began to get on his nerves because he knew it was him coming over to fuck with him.

PeteSilas said:

I actually find the character incredibly annoying for the most part!

PeteSilas said:

Doozer said:

Steakfinger is having fun editing my post, which originally read that Prince made the comment, "I learned that I can't direct what I didn't write." Steakfinger omitted "what I didn't write" to make a point about Prince's directorial skills.

Prince's quote is from a news article with him relfecting on the UTCM film, I believe from 89/90 when he was working on Grafitti Bridge. Here's a link to the pull quote:

https://books.google.com/...Q6AEILTAB

[Edited 7/5/18 15:07pm]

it's funny but stephen berkoff, a professional actor said that Prince directed well. He also described him as pretty demanding with the script, wanting every word in and that the sound of Prince's heels began to get on his nerves because he knew it was him coming over to fuck with him.

Great story Pete.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

I actually find the character incredibly annoying for the most part!

It was just a bit over-the-top, and amateur acting. The storyline was too sophisticated for Prince's acting ability. Here is how Prince responded during an AOL online interview with fans when asked about the film:

*

Question: What inspired your storyline in your film “Under the Cherry Moon” ? My wife and I consider it our favorite.
TheArtist: that film went thru many drafts..much was lost in the shuffle
TheArtist: ..but i must admit..
TheArtist: there r some very funny scenes..
TheArtist: it was inspired by the comedies..
TheArtist: of the 4ties

i thought jerome benton was the best actor by far out of the whole pr,utcm crew.

PeteSilas said:

i thought jerome benton was the best actor by far out of the whole pr,utcm crew.

Yes, he was the best. Very expressive, and he had good timing. For PR, I thought he and Morris as a team were great. His more serious scene -when he gives Prince the Appollonia 6 Tickets - was done very well too. I read that their "who's on first" password bit in PR was done in one take.

soladeo1 said:

I think the real Prince was a lot moodier and was sort of a workaholic.

I agree I think he had too much control on the movie to give away too much about himself.

kekepania said:

I hope not because that character is smug, arrogant, off putting and totally insufferable - even by Prince's standards. I loathe UTCM with a passion and find it stupid, unfunny and patently ridiculous. It's not even interesting enough to be "good in a bad way" like GB is in the tradition of Mystery Science Theater and "bad movies are fun". UTCM is just ebarrasingly bad and it's protagonist is completely unlikable.

We're meant to find this narccisitic, egocentric, mysoganistic, unfunny, boorish, vampy, preening goofball hip, cool, romantic and sympathetic somehow? At least in PR, even though The Kid shared a lot of those traits, we were shown his abusive home life, why he was the way he was and his struggle to break free of that pattern. With Christopher, there's no arc, and we're automatically supposed to identify with him simply by virtue of him being Prince and him being just sooooo cooolllll and unlike those "uptight white squares", even though he acts like a total asshole throughout the whole film.

God, what a shitty film and terrible character.

I think he and the character are funny. Go Figure.

herb4 said:

I hope not because that character is smug, arrogant, off putting and totally insufferable - even by Prince's standards. I loathe UTCM with a passion and find it stupid, unfunny and patently ridiculous. It's not even interesting enough to be "good in a bad way" like GB is in the tradition of Mystery Science Theater and "bad movies are fun". UTCM is just ebarrasingly bad and it's protagonist is completely unlikable.

We're meant to find this narccisitic, egocentric, mysoganistic, unfunny, boorish, vampy, preening goofball hip, cool, romantic and sympathetic somehow? At least in PR, even though The Kid shared a lot of those traits, we were shown his abusive home life, why he was the way he was and his struggle to break free of that pattern. With Christopher, there's no arc, and we're automatically supposed to identify with him simply by virtue of him being Prince and him being just sooooo cooolllll and unlike those "uptight white squares", even though he acts like a total asshole throughout the whole film.

God, what a shitty film and terrible character.

I disagree. I think Clarence Williams III is the best. Jerome Benton has great comic instincts but his crying scene in UTCM when Tracy dies is really bad.

PeteSilas said:

i thought jerome benton was the best actor by far out of the whole pr,utcm crew.