Bodhitheblackdog said:

peggyon said:

I posted this but it got lost a couple of posts back.

I think the paramedics decided to resuscitate Prince because of the warmth of his skin.(Heating system) Once resuscitation began they noted his rigor.

Often emergency crews begin resuscitation and need to call in their findings to an MD who will provide more guidance/decisions. They may have acted more conservatively as this was a high profile case.

Regarding the "vomit" on the control panels in the elevator: I should be more accurate; it looked like some kind of fluid that dripped down the wall and pooled...saliva before actual vomit??

As Penny mentioned, he did have vomit in his mouth and he could have more on his clothing.

I think K&M likely turned the clothes inside out to make him more presentable as the media would be photographing (This was Purplerabbithole's hypothesis and it feels best to me)

Paramedics were called afterwards

I respectfully disagree. I can't picture K&M finding Prince DEAD, internalizing that fact that PRINCE IS DEAD...and then being able to (OR EVEN INTERESTED IN )wrangle his stiff body out of and back into clothes?!?while screaming, being hysterical, hyper-ventilating, crying, praying, cursing...whatever. I think any normal person would pull out a phone and call 911.....at that point, it was obvious that his 'vanity' needed to take a back seat to reality.

Also, if there was biological fluid inside his clothes, it would have been located, analyized and identified.....Penny: were his clothes analyized for chemistry/drugs/vomit/blood, etc? Were any results published?

So glad the thread is back on track!

I read something about the clothes, I think the ME asked about them for evidence.

I don't think they could've possibly dressed him or anything of the like because of rigor and the way that one arm was bent.

Krystalkisses said:

Nola said:

No, if by some chance it was a suicide, I doubt he would have had this sort of discussion with his people at all. But at various times throughout the investigator's documentation, I found myself thinking that Kirk in particular, was taking a lot of liberties on Prince's behalf. Speaking "for" Prince ("Prince is fine") when the ER doctor in Moline was addressing Prince directly and asking questions, throwing medications away, etc. For sure, someone tampered with his computer - the only reason they would have done so is if there was some very sensitive or incriminating info on it. It was a bad mistake on the part of the investigators to leave it behind. Like I said earlier, just a lot of little bits and pieces that don't fit very well.

[Edited 6/19/18 10:13am]

Yes I agree. I was also wondering how do investigators rule out a suicide in this kind of case. My brother in law even asked me about a month ago, why would he take stuff that he knew almost killed him on the plane?

Because nothing showed them it was a suicide, no letter, no signs and such.

As far as the plane goes, he thought his troubles were brought on by the Narcan because he was obsessing over it.

I agree -- I can't imagine someone coming upon the stiff dead body of their friend and their first course of action is to wrestle some of his clothes off and dress him again to avoid the embarrasment of someone down the line noticing some vomit on his attire in photos of his corpse lying on the floor. Vomit would rank about 100 on the list of horrifying things about the situation.

PennyPurple said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I respectfully disagree. I can't picture K&M finding Prince DEAD, internalizing that fact that PRINCE IS DEAD...and then being able to (OR EVEN INTERESTED IN )wrangle his stiff body out of and back into clothes?!?while screaming, being hysterical, hyper-ventilating, crying, praying, cursing...whatever. I think any normal person would pull out a phone and call 911.....at that point, it was obvious that his 'vanity' needed to take a back seat to reality.

Also, if there was biological fluid inside his clothes, it would have been located, analyized and identified.....Penny: were his clothes analyized for chemistry/drugs/vomit/blood, etc? Were any results published?

So glad the thread is back on track!

I read something about the clothes, I think the ME asked about them for evidence.

I don't think they could've possibly dressed him or anything of the like because of rigor and the way that one arm was bent.

TrevorAyer said:

1Sasha said:

Organized religions prohibit a lot of things. But Prince, being Prince, was going to do whatever the hell he wanted to do, when he wanted to do it. I don't know if he was under the JW spell toward the end of his life. Some people said he wasn't. Who knows?

I’m just sayin ... for a guy that spelled out doctrine on albums include page and verse numbers as lyrics ... for a guy who appeared to have a pretty devote take on his religion even on his worst behavior .. it seams odd to throw away his belief in the after life by defying a rule that in doing so, apparently keeps you out of heaven

I thought the JWs believe when you die, you do not go to Heaven. You disappear. Then, at a later time, you may be re-conjured in Paradise. Anyone here an expert on JW?

1Sasha said:

TrevorAyer said:

1Sasha said: I’m just sayin ... for a guy that spelled out doctrine on albums include page and verse numbers as lyrics ... for a guy who appeared to have a pretty devote take on his religion even on his worst behavior .. it seams odd to throw away his belief in the after life by defying a rule that in doing so, apparently keeps you out of heaven

I thought the JWs believe when you die, you do not go to Heaven. You disappear. Then, at a later time, you may be re-conjured in Paradise. Anyone here an expert on JW?

no expert but in my teen years i had a mini-addiction to their doctrines for some strange reason. they believe when you die you are dead, nothing until the ressurection, then for a thousand years people will be allowed to prove themselves and after that only 144,000 will be judged righteous enough to live forever, kinda screwy and I might have a detail or two wrong, it's been over 30 years but that's the gist of it. i'm sure we have some JW or former JW in here somewhere.

peggyon said:

Happy sleuthing y'all. I have given up all of my ideas. Hopefully you guys solve this case. Good to have fresh eyes as well.

Taking a break from this ever-fascinating Prince mystery. Gotta get back to the remodel.

know what you mean. Damn you Prince wherever you are, you did it again, even in death left people wondering about this or that or that or this. when i get there, i'm gonna give you a piece of my mind.

Krystalkisses said:

Nola said:

Yes, exactly right. (Well...I'm not 100% convinced about the 'no note' part - if someone on his staff (or a family member) thought they had the right to erase potentially critical information from his computer, they may well have thought it was in Prince's best interest (legacy-wise) to help themselves to any written note found on that day and destroy it). Theory.

[Edited 6/19/18 8:55am]

[Edited 6/19/18 9:07am]

So do you think Prince discussed what he was going to do prior with his people and told them to make it look like something else or they took it upon themselves to cover it up?

the idea that people always leave a note for a suicide has been said to be a myth, i forget exact stats but it's common for no note to be found.

My understanding (From wikipedia) is that the 144,000 will go directly to heaven with God. The rest of the world will die, get a second resurrection (along with anyone else who had ever died in the past who was not in open conflict with God, or deemed unforgivable (depending on which school of jW thought you follow) , be given 1000 years under Jesus and the witness's tutelage to become the good people they are supposed to be, then the Devil will come and tempt people, those who give in to the devil will just die (no hell. dead soul) and the rest will live forever on an utopian earth. There are also apparently two different schools of thought within that church..one much more forgiving than the other one. the Orignal JW's were more forgiving. NOt sure what Prince believed or if he went back and forth between the two.

PeteSilas said:

1Sasha said:

I thought the JWs believe when you die, you do not go to Heaven. You disappear. Then, at a later time, you may be re-conjured in Paradise. Anyone here an expert on JW?

no expert but in my teen years i had a mini-addiction to their doctrines for some strange reason. they believe when you die you are dead, nothing until the ressurection, then for a thousand years people will be allowed to prove themselves and after that only 144,000 will be judged righteous enough to live forever, kinda screwy and I might have a detail or two wrong, it's been over 30 years but that's the gist of it. i'm sure we have some JW or former JW in here somewhere.

[Edited 6/19/18 12:34pm]

[Snip - luv4u]

purplerabbithole said:

My understanding (From wikipedia) is that the 144,000 will go directly to heaven with God. The rest of the world will die, get a second resurrection (along with anyone else who had ever died in the past who was not in open conflict with God) , be given 1000 years under Jesus and the witness's tutelage to become the good people they are supposed to be, then the Devil will come and tempt people, those who give in to the devil will just die (no hell. dead soul) and the rest will live forever on an utopian earth.

PeteSilas said:

no expert but in my teen years i had a mini-addiction to their doctrines for some strange reason. they believe when you die you are dead, nothing until the ressurection, then for a thousand years people will be allowed to prove themselves and after that only 144,000 will be judged righteous enough to live forever, kinda screwy and I might have a detail or two wrong, it's been over 30 years but that's the gist of it. i'm sure we have some JW or former JW in here somewhere.

ya thats it

Also there were two schools of thought---Russell (the original more forgiving version of who gets to live forever) and Rutherford (the more judgmental and exclusive, later version of who gets a second resurrection). I suspect that P might have started with Rutherford (thus the treatment of W and L) and then maybe stepped back and followed the original Russell interpretation (which was more inclusive and forgiving--thus the reunion of sorts with W and L.) In the last five years of his life, He seemed to be totally following the Russell version due to his lack of preaching, less usage of WatchTower brochures, and his friendships with other christians (but he still went to Kingdom hall sometimes.)

PeteSilas said:

purplerabbithole said:

My understanding (From wikipedia) is that the 144,000 will go directly to heaven with God. The rest of the world will die, get a second resurrection (along with anyone else who had ever died in the past who was not in open conflict with God) , be given 1000 years under Jesus and the witness's tutelage to become the good people they are supposed to be, then the Devil will come and tempt people, those who give in to the devil will just die (no hell. dead soul) and the rest will live forever on an utopian earth.

ya thats it

[Edited 6/19/18 13:13pm]

peggyon said:

TrevorAyer said:

Isn’t suicide stricly forbidden in the christian jw religion? Are you suggesting that the prince religious persona was as fake as the anti drug persona?

I don't understand why people assumed that person practiced religion they would never commit suicide. I know two people who were strong Christians and they still committed suicide one for depression and the other for physical illness because they can't take the suffering anymore. I also knew Christians too who had several attempts at ending their life but they got the help they needed. Now I am going to stress my suicide theory remains that until confirmation...

And Prince was so private and I don't know who he is anymore especially after I came to terms he was a high functional drug user and yet always preached about anti-drug because he looked down on people who took illicit drugs. But I also believed until the family members tell more, I am going to try my best to understand him through his music like he tried to tell us.

Sheila E did hint in one of her interviews that Prince stopped believing at one point and she was relieved he believed in something once he converted to JW but I also picked up she thought it was interesting of him convert to JW. I think Prince was searching for answers too even though he was JW until the end because he was dabbing into some metaphysics and possibly Eastern thought.

I can imagine so many reasons...physical pain, feeling alone, knowing your musicial capacities will be limited, no wife, no children, casual friends and some off-and-on older friends but no friends you feel close enough to trust, no parents, judgemental public/"fans"...(having to face all of this stuff with no pharmacutical relief and everyone in the world eventually seeing how vulnerable you really were the whole time.). Don't get me wrong..he had a lot to live for (mentorship with young musicians, online friends, his good looks still intact, his talent still there, a respectable legacy, friends who would forgive him if he let them see his truth and be a bit more generous, fame, fortune---but all of that is still not enough obviously when the other more crucial aspects of happiness are there for others but not yourself.)

Krystalkisses said:

peggyon said:

Happy sleuthing y'all. I have given up all of my ideas. Hopefully you guys solve this case. Good to have fresh eyes as well.

Taking a break from this ever-fascinating Prince mystery. Gotta get back to the remodel.

Yes for real. I guess I'm going to have to read all of the files and parts of this thread before I contribute anything else because I am way behind. But I did want to say sorry for taking the thread off topic. Despite what some here may want to believe I have no ulterior motives in trying to lead the convo away from intended revelations. I just g ot caught up thats all. I am probably the most confused here and know the least. I guess if Prince did take his own life my next question is why? That was why I was asking about possible depression but maybe that isn't it all. We may never know. Either way it is heartbreaking as I considered him my first love and I miss him . I hope you all can solve this mystery. Peace

Prince seemed to stop looking down on drug users years ago. Whether he was a hypocrite at one point is hard to know. But when MJ died from drugs he was compassionate. He was compassionate about Amy Winehouse and even worked with her at the height of her addiction. From 2015 interview...(does this sound like judgment of drug addicts???--he doesn't say himself but he might as well as...)

It’s speaking about Michael Jackson, however, that he was at his most vulnerable. “I don’t want to talk about it. I’m too close to it,” Prince began when asked if he could have helped the King of Pop before his death in 2009.

He added, however: “He is just one of many who have gone through that door—Amy Winehouse and folks. We’re all connected, right, we’re all brothers and sisters, and the minute we lock that in, we wouldn’t let anybody in our family fall.”

ladygirl99 said:

TrevorAyer said:

Isn’t suicide stricly forbidden in the christian jw religion? Are you suggesting that the prince religious persona was as fake as the anti drug persona?

I don't understand why people assumed that person practiced religion they would never commit suicide. I know two people who were strong Christians and they still committed suicide one for depression and the other for physical illness because they can't take the suffering anymore. I also knew Christians too who had several attempts at ending their life but they got the help they needed. Now I am going to stress my suicide theory remains that until confirmation...

And Prince was so private and I don't know who he is anymore especially after I came to terms he was a high functional drug user and yet always preached about anti-drug because he looked down on people who took illicit drugs. But I also believed until the family members tell more, I am going to try my best to understand him through his music like he tried to tell us.

Sheila E did hint in one of her interviews that Prince stopped believing at one point and she was relieved he believed in something once he converted to JW but I also picked up she thought it was interesting of him convert to JW. I think Prince was searching for answers too even though he was JW until the end because he was dabbing into some metaphysics and possibly Eastern thought.

[Edited 6/19/18 13:51pm]

How do we know he ever "looked down on drug users"? He sang occasionally about the perils of drugs, and he supposedly didn't like people who worked for him to use, in the sense that it might interfere with his high-intensity work schedule and it might reflect poorly to the public. But he certainly associated with plenty of people who use drugs, some of whom quite heavily, and I haven't heard that he cut them out of his life because of that.

-

I think the idea that he was ever some anti-drug crusader is overblown. Not that he was "pro-drug" or anything, but his stance on drug use was never a big part of his public persona or his music, compared to, say, his religious or sexual explorations.

purplerabbithole said:

Prince seemed to stop looking down on drug users years ago. Whether he was a hypocrite at one point is hard to know. But when MJ died from drugs he was compassionate. He was compassionate about Amy Winehouse and even worked with her at the height of her addiction. From 2015 interview...(does this sound like judgment of drug addicts???--he doesn't say himself but he might as well as...)

It’s speaking about Michael Jackson, however, that he was at his most vulnerable. “I don’t want to talk about it. I’m too close to it,” Prince began when asked if he could have helped the King of Pop before his death in 2009.

He added, however: “He is just one of many who have gone through that door—Amy Winehouse and folks. We’re all connected, right, we’re all brothers and sisters, and the minute we lock that in, we wouldn’t let anybody in our family fall.”

I don't understand why people assumed that person practiced religion they would never commit suicide. I know two people who were strong Christians and they still committed suicide one for depression and the other for physical illness because they can't take the suffering anymore. I also knew Christians too who had several attempts at ending their life but they got the help they needed. Now I am going to stress my suicide theory remains that until confirmation...

And Prince was so private and I don't know who he is anymore especially after I came to terms he was a high functional drug user and yet always preached about anti-drug because he looked down on people who took illicit drugs. But I also believed until the family members tell more, I am going to try my best to understand him through his music like he tried to tell us.

Sheila E did hint in one of her interviews that Prince stopped believing at one point and she was relieved he believed in something once he converted to JW but I also picked up she thought it was interesting of him convert to JW. I think Prince was searching for answers too even though he was JW until the end because he was dabbing into some metaphysics and possibly Eastern thought.

[Edited 6/19/18 13:51pm]

That's because long-term Opioid abuse impairs one's judgment and distorts your thinking. "Drug-induced changes in brain function can have many behavioral consequences, including an inability to exert control over the impulse to use drugs despite adverse consequences."

PennyPurple said:

Krystalkisses said:

Nola said: Yes I agree. I was also wondering how do investigators rule out a suicide in this kind of case. My brother in law even asked me about a month ago, why would he take stuff that he knew almost killed him on the plane?

Because nothing showed them it was a suicide, no letter, no signs and such.

As far as the plane goes, he thought his troubles were brought on by the Narcan because he was obsessing over it.

About the narcan. I was contemplating this. Some believe that the plane was supposed to be his final act (the od). It has been mentioned here.

I wonder if Prince was focused on the narcan because he was trying to figure out how it worked and perhaps how far it can work.

I find it odd that Prince refused blood tests as far back as 1996, 2010 (?) and even in Moline. Then, the night before he passes, he submits to one.

I do not think there is 1 factor to cause his passing, but a multitude of factors. His physical pain and I think at this point, Prince was in a serious depression. Moline leaked his open secret to the fans.

I also think that the remark Prince made to Kirk, (paraphasing) I can't kick this, was his way of saying he was done. Kirk did not pick up on it. Kirk said he removed everything. That didn't matter. Prince had a stash in the bottles and tissue. Fentanyl laced pills were separate from those that did not contain fentanyl.

I don't think Prince was in his room. At some point, Prince took pill(s) and got in the elevator. I think the substance on the panel was him drooling/vomit from leaning on the wall in a state of mind like on the plane. Eventually, the pills took effect and he fell to the floor.

Most elevators stay at the level that is last used. The doors always close for safety. If the elevator was on the 1st floor, either Princed arrived there or called it from the 2nd floor, entered, succumbed to the pills and never pushed the buttons.

As for the clothes, I have no idea.

One thing that is bothering me is that Meron did not leave till 10:30. Unless it is part of the withheld interview, LE did not press her on what was going on at PP from 8 to 10:30. We also know that the last email was sent at 10:03 i think (I could be wrong).

If Prince was found at 9:45 (for a clean time), and rigor was setting in (3-6 hours), that means this could have happened anytime from 3:45-6:45 am.

Sorry to ramble.

[Snip - luv4u]

Because he didn't know what almost killed him on the plane. He knew he took a few different pills and that he lost consciousness. Neither he nor the pills were tested at that time, so he didn't have any of the info that we have now about fentanyl.

SilverNight said:

Yes I agree. I was also wondering how do investigators rule out a suicide in this kind of case. My brother in law even asked me about a month ago, why would he take stuff that he knew almost killed him on the plane?

That's because long-term Opioid abuse impairs one's judgment and distorts your thinking. "Drug-induced changes in brain function can have many behavioral consequences, including an inability to exert control over the impulse to use drugs despite adverse consequences."

people go against there religion whenever they feel like it,maybe feel guilt, maybe the don't, maybe they have that wierd christian thing that they can be forgiven by the blood of christ no matter what they do. So, as a person who lived with christians and was just fascinated by how inconsistent they were. So.., I don't think that would stop people from suicide necessarily. though, i'm sure it has for a lot of people. Marvin Gaye was said to have orchestrated the actions of his family so that he could end up murdered so that he wouldn't have to kill himself. His own brother said his dying words were to the effect "it's better this way". Why these guys can't be happy? I don't really know, I'm a fellow musician/artist, with depression and issues and I don't quite get it. I know it's undeniable though, many of the great stars were miserable. Even Bruce Springsteen talks about how he had dark bouts of depression in his mid-sixties that were crippling. I really don't get it, i'm familiar with depression but personally, a lot of it is because I've sacrificed everything for nothing to be a musician, that is heavy. These other guys had the best of everything. so, ya, it's a head scratcher.

ladygirl99 said:

TrevorAyer said:

Isn’t suicide stricly forbidden in the christian jw religion? Are you suggesting that the prince religious persona was as fake as the anti drug persona?

I don't understand why people assumed that person practiced religion they would never commit suicide. I know two people who were strong Christians and they still committed suicide one for depression and the other for physical illness because they can't take the suffering anymore. I also knew Christians too who had several attempts at ending their life but they got the help they needed. Now I am going to stress my suicide theory remains that until confirmation...

And Prince was so private and I don't know who he is anymore especially after I came to terms he was a high functional drug user and yet always preached about anti-drug because he looked down on people who took illicit drugs. But I also believed until the family members tell more, I am going to try my best to understand him through his music like he tried to tell us.

Sheila E did hint in one of her interviews that Prince stopped believing at one point and she was relieved he believed in something once he converted to JW but I also picked up she thought it was interesting of him convert to JW. I think Prince was searching for answers too even though he was JW until the end because he was dabbing into some metaphysics and possibly Eastern thought.

fortuneandserendipity said:

pricetag said:

[Snip - luv4u]

[Snip - luv4u]

are you two lovebirds still quarreling?

in the eighties the publicity, the songs, his statements were blatantly anti-drug, how true it was then or throughout the years is a major question mark.

disch said:

How do we know he ever "looked down on drug users"? He sang occasionally about the perils of drugs, and he supposedly didn't like people who worked for him to use, in the sense that it might interfere with his high-intensity work schedule and it might reflect poorly to the public. But he certainly associated with plenty of people who use drugs, some of whom quite heavily, and I haven't heard that he cut them out of his life because of that.

-

I think the idea that he was ever some anti-drug crusader is overblown. Not that he was "pro-drug" or anything, but his stance on drug use was never a big part of his public persona or his music, compared to, say, his religious or sexual explorations.

purplerabbithole said:

Prince seemed to stop looking down on drug users years ago. Whether he was a hypocrite at one point is hard to know. But when MJ died from drugs he was compassionate. He was compassionate about Amy Winehouse and even worked with her at the height of her addiction. From 2015 interview...(does this sound like judgment of drug addicts???--he doesn't say himself but he might as well as...)

I don't understand why people assumed that person practiced religion they would never commit suicide. I know two people who were strong Christians and they still committed suicide one for depression and the other for physical illness because they can't take the suffering anymore. I also knew Christians too who had several attempts at ending their life but they got the help they needed. Now I am going to stress my suicide theory remains that until confirmation...

And Prince was so private and I don't know who he is anymore especially after I came to terms he was a high functional drug user and yet always preached about anti-drug because he looked down on people who took illicit drugs. But I also believed until the family members tell more, I am going to try my best to understand him through his music like he tried to tell us.

Sheila E did hint in one of her interviews that Prince stopped believing at one point and she was relieved he believed in something once he converted to JW but I also picked up she thought it was interesting of him convert to JW. I think Prince was searching for answers too even though he was JW until the end because he was dabbing into some metaphysics and possibly Eastern thought.

[Edited 6/19/18 13:51pm]

But it was never a big part of what he was all about. If you asked people at that time what they associated with prince, it would be sexy stuff, or religous stuff, not anti-drug stuff. He rarely gave interviews in the 80s, and there was no social media back then, so it's not like his opinions about drugs (or any other topic) had much of an outlet.

-

Now what he actually thought then or later I have no idea and it doesn't matter to me a whole lot. But it wasn't some he chose to centralize in his pubic persona.

PeteSilas said:

in the eighties the publicity, the songs, his statements were blatantly anti-drug, how true it was then or throughout the years is a major question mark.

disch said:

How do we know he ever "looked down on drug users"? He sang occasionally about the perils of drugs, and he supposedly didn't like people who worked for him to use, in the sense that it might interfere with his high-intensity work schedule and it might reflect poorly to the public. But he certainly associated with plenty of people who use drugs, some of whom quite heavily, and I haven't heard that he cut them out of his life because of that.

-

I think the idea that he was ever some anti-drug crusader is overblown. Not that he was "pro-drug" or anything, but his stance on drug use was never a big part of his public persona or his music, compared to, say, his religious or sexual explorations.

[Edited 6/19/18 13:51pm]

his anti-drug image in those years were enough that i had several people ask me after he died, non-fans, "but I thought he was clean?". Let's go crazy's lyrics were assumed to be anti drug, the lovesexy opening about smack, now, we know he started to soften on his stance but I was never convinced that he was anywhere close to Elvis type stuff up until the last few years, i'm still not convinced of that.

disch said:

But it was never a big part of what he was all about. If you asked people at that time what they associated with prince, it would be sexy stuff, or religous stuff, not anti-drug stuff. He rarely gave interviews in the 80s, and there was no social media back then, so it's not like his opinions about drugs (or any other topic) had much of an outlet.

-

Now what he actually thought then or later I have no idea and it doesn't matter to me a whole lot. But it wasn't some he chose to centralize in his pubic persona.

PeteSilas said:

in the eighties the publicity, the songs, his statements were blatantly anti-drug, how true it was then or throughout the years is a major question mark.

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

I get it. But then the thread should be "Theories On Why Prince Took Opioids" or "Prince's Death: Suicide Or Accident?" Because this has nothing to do with the facts or the investigation.

It has everything to do with the investigation, investigation documents have even been posted. If you are unhappy about this thread, stop spamming it.

I would say the actual "spamming" would be all of the theories and conjecture running amuck here. Going to follow Peggy and exit this thread in order to focus on his music, and all of those who played, worked, and shared his life with him. Oh, I know Penny, this will make your day

*

[Snip - luv4u]

PeteSilas said:

people go against there religion whenever they feel like it,maybe feel guilt, maybe the don't, maybe they have that wierd christian thing that they can be forgiven by the blood of christ no matter what they do. So, as a person who lived with christians and was just fascinated by how inconsistent they were. So.., I don't think that would stop people from suicide necessarily. though, i'm sure it has for a lot of people. Marvin Gaye was said to have orchestrated the actions of his family so that he could end up murdered so that he wouldn't have to kill himself. His own brother said his dying words were to the effect "it's better this way". Why these guys can't be happy? I don't really know, I'm a fellow musician/artist, with depression and issues and I don't quite get it. I know it's undeniable though, many of the great stars were miserable. Even Bruce Springsteen talks about how he had dark bouts of depression in his mid-sixties that were crippling. I really don't get it, i'm familiar with depression but personally, a lot of it is because I've sacrificed everything for nothing to be a musician, that is heavy. These other guys had the best of everything. so, ya, it's a head scratcher.

ladygirl99 said:

I don't understand why people assumed that person practiced religion they would never commit suicide. I know two people who were strong Christians and they still committed suicide one for depression and the other for physical illness because they can't take the suffering anymore. I also knew Christians too who had several attempts at ending their life but they got the help they needed. Now I am going to stress my suicide theory remains that until confirmation...

And Prince was so private and I don't know who he is anymore especially after I came to terms he was a high functional drug user and yet always preached about anti-drug because he looked down on people who took illicit drugs. But I also believed until the family members tell more, I am going to try my best to understand him through his music like he tried to tell us.

Sheila E did hint in one of her interviews that Prince stopped believing at one point and she was relieved he believed in something once he converted to JW but I also picked up she thought it was interesting of him convert to JW. I think Prince was searching for answers too even though he was JW until the end because he was dabbing into some metaphysics and possibly Eastern thought.

Yes that is true.

PeteSilas said:

are you two lovebirds still quarreling?

disch said:

Because he didn't know what almost killed him on the plane. He knew he took a few different pills and that he lost consciousness. Neither he nor the pills were tested at that time, so he didn't have any of the info that we have now about fentanyl.

I question whether he knew or not.

If you recall, the investigation stated the pills were disbursed in the bottles by what they contained.

The Bayer bottle, which was the same bottle that contained the pill which was given to the doctor in Moline, consisted of Fentanyl and Lidocaine. There were 64 1/4 pills in the Bayer bottle.

The Aleve bottle contained Lidocaine only pills. There were 21 1/2 pills in the Aleve bottle.

I think P knew which bottle contained the stronger substance.