Thank you for this Menes. I'm a newcomer, so please bear with me if some of what I might say seems naive or redundant (I'm sure after 10 parts, it's all been said already). I've been waiting until the thread got back on track before jumping in. Prince was of my generation so his music was part of my life at certain times. Never a huge fan, never went to a concert, so certainly would never claim to 'know' the guy. But the death investigation is very intriguing to me, especially what you have to say about the drugs.

I don't believe he started dabbling late in life. I don't believe it started with hip pain (in fact, as someone mentioned not long ago, he didn't appear to be limping at all during his visit to KJ's doc the night before he died - never even mentioned hip pain). I don't believe opiate addicts are unable to function. I do believe he died of an overdose, not a suicide or a murder. I think it got away from him and as you say in your post, there is something hinky in the investigation reports about the drugs themselves. I'm not sure what to make of it, but the points you raise are only a few of the things that I found very jarring in those reports.

I was most interested in the behaviors and actions of his paid staff at PP (Kirk, Merone, in particular). Maybe I will ask my questions about all of that at a later time when some of you feel up to answering them for the 1000th time! I found the poor condition of his home very revealing - I'm sure he was paying someone very well to take care of it. He was no casual user treating pain - he had a lot of drugs stashed in his home in some very odd places (like the jewelry box - why...an emergency hidden stash just in case of a forced rehab or worse, a visit from police or some such?).

I thought it was interesting that several half-pills were found. Was he trying to wean down? Or was he bumping up a little at a time? He was (seemingly) trying to counteract the sedative qualities of the pills with the 5-hour energy shots - did he miscalculate? For sure the Narcan would have put him straight into withdrawals and like many addicts, he may have been too stubborn (or too stupid, frankly) to realize he couldn't step back into his usual dosage. And that's not even taking into consideration that some of his stash was tainted with fentanyl (with or without his knowledge). One thing I have known about drunks and addicts in my own life is that they cannot be told...they ALWAYS think they know best.

Did he purchase drugs himself, personally? I think that's a bit unlikely. Just as unlikely that Kirk, after decades of working with/for him, claimed no knowledge. I believe it was mentioned in one of the reports that he had to request 'petty cash' from Phaedra to give some gifts of cash. Do we really think he was using his debit card online with a dealer?

As to all the reports regarding his death, like I said, I have many thoughts and observations after reading them, but will save that for a later conversation if anyone is willing to engage. I just wanted to take advantage of the lull in the sidelined discussion to bring forward a few of my thoughts on the death investigation.

Thanks for listening! And thanks Menes for your observations...I'm a bit unsophisticated where drugs are concerned so I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at, but it's interesting as hell!

Menes said:

So, anyhoo, Prince consumed something from the same batch of pills that he OD'ed from in Moline. Unless of course you think that the man ran out when he returned to PP ( in stealth mode) and purchased a new and completely foreign batch that contained one damn pill that killed him. With that much scrutiny and eyes on him, Ummmmm, no.

It was in the stash, in the house , but was never revealed by "carver county finest" for obvious reasons.

As with everything, drug addicts prefer to purchase locally and trust locals. There was an epidemic brewing in 2015 in MN but it was kept secret for fear of alerting fellow addicts and dealers that a certain variety of opiates laced with deadly fentanyl was the "real deal". "Real deal " as in death ( or closer to your higher self). It is not amongst the opiates that were found @ PP. That mega-dose ( of fentanyl) has not been a focus of any investigation related to watson 853/385 . Research .

Furthermore, I have not been able to find any DEA reports or testing that was done for the additional pills that were found @ PP. Why the secrecy about which pill was tested and how much fentanyl it contained? How unlucky is Prince to pick out one pill out of a batch of about 100 damn 853/385 that contained an enormous amount of fentanyl? Not that damn lucky because it was already all over Minnesota in 2015. Point of interest: It wasn't 853/385's that contained exorbitant kill levels of fentanyl, distributed by dealers. Nor was there a high demand by users for such . Unlucky fellow eh?

They released the opiates that were found @ PP, but notice, nothing is revealed concerning the testing for an aggregate amount of fentanyl. Yet, he died of a fentanyl overdose from an opiate pill. Which one? The 853's? We have the records of every single pill collected. Or do we?

If you are law enforcement and you release the fact that watson 853/385's were found @ PP and you unequivocally state that this was the only opiate that was found, would you really say that this is the pill that contained the fentanyl? No. The iilicit market would have been flooded immediately. There was nothing moving the 853 opiate market, yet, they revealed this as the opiate of choice for Prince which more than likely, contained the fentanyl/carfentanil.

Hi again Menes - I've seen you say similar things before. They echo many of my suspicions about what really happened that night/day. Much of what was contained in the police reports (based on info given to them by the staff) simply doesn't pass the smell test IMO. Please don't go too far in to the bat cave, I find your thought processes fascinating and I'd like to know more.

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

To the bat cave... how far was the elevator from anything remotely close to where the pills were found?

You see, death was quick , or so they tell us ,based upon the exorbitant amount of fentanyl in his body.... Seconds they tell me. Can you get in there, and (punch a lower floor) which means you're still conscious? Was it going up or down? Jesus , I hope I don't sound like ... that vague person. I want to consider that my thinking needs some adjusting before declaring it unworkable. April was not the beginning.

Nola said:

Hi again Menes - I've seen you say similar things before. They echo many of my suspicions about what really happened that night/day. Much of what was contained in the police reports (based on info given to them by the staff) simply doesn't pass the smell test IMO. Please don't go too far in to the bat cave, I find your thought processes fascinating and I'd like to know more.

Menes said:

To the bat cave... how far was the elevator from anything remotely close to where the pills were found?

You see, death was quick , or so they tell us ,based upon the exorbitant amount of fentanyl in his body.... Seconds they tell me. Can you get in there, and (punch a lower floor) which means you're still conscious? Was it going up or down? Jesus , I hope I don't sound like ... that vague person. I want to consider that my thinking needs some adjusting before declaring it unworkable. April was not the beginning.

I can see that I'm probably not entering my responses quite right. They look a bit weird on my end. Sorry...newbie.

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

you noticed!!!!! let's get this puppy back in line (though I disagree re one point: personal narratives about opoid use are relevant and important...always thought-provoking)...other than that....OMG Menes, we have to stop meeting like this!!!!!!!!!

I can agree that opioid use is relevant and important , and always, thought provoking. I could run a scientific model on it (as it relates to the effect on the brain), but lordy, where will that take me? We will be full circle, talking about Bruce lee's death, Janis Joplin's last hit whilst aroused by a vision from her lover in Atlantis and Miles Davis' sexual encounter with a snow-bunny rabbit while on LSD.

funny you should mention bruce lee, i just got a new bio on him, and I'm reading how his father was an opium addict, a bad one, lost a lot by getting hooked, finally quit when he was bribed by police to not give him legal problems, chinese people have a thing with "face" a thing we are more likely to call "shame" anyway, it sounds lie a horrible addiction and he quit it with a rough two week stint, i thought of Prince and thought "well, it was doable". Bruce, ironically, always hated seeing his father hooked yet he turned around and became reliant on hashish to relax him, sometimes we can fall into traps even when we see them clear as day.

you do sound vague and it's very difficult to follow what you're saying.

-

You've implied many many times that there's something very telling about the distance between the elevator and locations where pills were found, but have never expanded about why that is.

-

Rather than asking again about the distance between those 2 points, why dont you tell us what that distance is and why you feel that's important?

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

To the bat cave... how far was the elevator from anything remotely close to where the pills were found?

You see, death was quick , or so they tell us ,based upon the exorbitant amount of fentanyl in his body.... Seconds they tell me. Can you get in there, and (punch a lower floor) which means you're still conscious? Was it going up or down? Jesus , I hope I don't sound like ... that vague person. I want to consider that my thinking needs some adjusting before declaring it unworkable. April was not the beginning.

[Edited 6/18/18 21:14pm]

Menes said:

I'm just asking questions. Because I don't understand why any of this happened. But you seem to know all. Can you spell it out for us?

purplerabbithole said:

I don't know if murder conspiracy is what you believe but I don't think the fast acting nature of the pill contradicts my belief that P deliberately took a pill(s) after he got into the elevator.

Menes said:

To the bat cave... how far was the elevator from anything remotely close to where the pills were found?

You see, death was quick , or so they tell us ,based upon the exorbitant amount of fentanyl in his body.... Seconds they tell me. Can you get in there, and (punch a lower floor) which means you're still conscious? Was it going up or down? Jesus , I hope I don't sound like ... that vague person. I want to consider that my thinking needs some adjusting before declaring it unworkable. April was not the beginning.

see, that's one reason we can figure shit out, we don't really know that much about this stuff. I've asked before if Prince would have had time from the moment of the pill intake to realize he was in trouble, i've heard that he would not but no one here can confirm that because none of you seem to have any expertise. so..., if he would have only had a few seconds, wouldn't it make sense that he got on the elevator first and then took the pills? rather than realized he was od'ing and tried to get help? if you only have a couple seconds you ain't making that far, not even out of his room probably unless he does a carl lewis. And even then, you'd think he'd try to get to a landline, not an elevator. those are the things that make me think it was suicide.

disch said:

I wonder if Menes believes as I do, that Prince didn’t die in the elevator at all? How’s that for a conspiracy theory? Just a strong intuition on my part, combined with bits and pieces in the investigative reports that don’t make any sense.

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

The silence is deafening. Lord, save me from my transgressions that I am wiling to commit this night. I feel so "dual".

Hey, it looks good on you...embrace it!

Nola said:

Thank you for this Menes. I'm a newcomer, so please bear with me if some of what I might say seems naive or redundant (I'm sure after 10 parts, it's all been said already). I've been waiting until the thread got back on track before jumping in. Prince was of my generation so his music was part of my life at certain times. Never a huge fan, never went to a concert, so certainly would never claim to 'know' the guy. But the death investigation is very intriguing to me, especially what you have to say about the drugs.

I don't believe he started dabbling late in life. I don't believe it started with hip pain (in fact, as someone mentioned not long ago, he didn't appear to be limping at all during his visit to KJ's doc the night before he died - never even mentioned hip pain). I don't believe opiate addicts are unable to function. I do believe he died of an overdose, not a suicide or a murder. I think it got away from him and as you say in your post, there is something hinky in the investigation reports about the drugs themselves. I'm not sure what to make of it, but the points you raise are only a few of the things that I found very jarring in those reports.

I was most interested in the behaviors and actions of his paid staff at PP (Kirk, Merone, in particular). Maybe I will ask my questions about all of that at a later time when some of you feel up to answering them for the 1000th time! I found the poor condition of his home very revealing - I'm sure he was paying someone very well to take care of it. He was no casual user treating pain - he had a lot of drugs stashed in his home in some very odd places (like the jewelry box - why...an emergency hidden stash just in case of a forced rehab or worse, a visit from police or some such?).

I thought it was interesting that several half-pills were found. Was he trying to wean down? Or was he bumping up a little at a time? He was (seemingly) trying to counteract the sedative qualities of the pills with the 5-hour energy shots - did he miscalculate? For sure the Narcan would have put him straight into withdrawals and like many addicts, he may have been too stubborn (or too stupid, frankly) to realize he couldn't step back into his usual dosage. And that's not even taking into consideration that some of his stash was tainted with fentanyl (with or without his knowledge). One thing I have known about drunks and addicts in my own life is that they cannot be told...they ALWAYS think they know best.

Did he purchase drugs himself, personally? I think that's a bit unlikely. Just as unlikely that Kirk, after decades of working with/for him, claimed no knowledge. I believe it was mentioned in one of the reports that he had to request 'petty cash' from Phaedra to give some gifts of cash. Do we really think he was using his debit card online with a dealer?

As to all the reports regarding his death, like I said, I have many thoughts and observations after reading them, but will save that for a later conversation if anyone is willing to engage. I just wanted to take advantage of the lull in the sidelined discussion to bring forward a few of my thoughts on the death investigation.

Thanks for listening! And thanks Menes for your observations...I'm a bit unsophisticated where drugs are concerned so I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at, but it's interesting as hell!

Menes said:

So, anyhoo, Prince consumed something from the same batch of pills that he OD'ed from in Moline. Unless of course you think that the man ran out when he returned to PP ( in stealth mode) and purchased a new and completely foreign batch that contained one damn pill that killed him. With that much scrutiny and eyes on him, Ummmmm, no.

It was in the stash, in the house , but was never revealed by "carver county finest" for obvious reasons.

As with everything, drug addicts prefer to purchase locally and trust locals. There was an epidemic brewing in 2015 in MN but it was kept secret for fear of alerting fellow addicts and dealers that a certain variety of opiates laced with deadly fentanyl was the "real deal". "Real deal " as in death ( or closer to your higher self). It is not amongst the opiates that were found @ PP. That mega-dose ( of fentanyl) has not been a focus of any investigation related to watson 853/385 . Research .

Furthermore, I have not been able to find any DEA reports or testing that was done for the additional pills that were found @ PP. Why the secrecy about which pill was tested and how much fentanyl it contained? How unlucky is Prince to pick out one pill out of a batch of about 100 damn 853/385 that contained an enormous amount of fentanyl? Not that damn lucky because it was already all over Minnesota in 2015. Point of interest: It wasn't 853/385's that contained exorbitant kill levels of fentanyl, distributed by dealers. Nor was there a high demand by users for such . Unlucky fellow eh?

They released the opiates that were found @ PP, but notice, nothing is revealed concerning the testing for an aggregate amount of fentanyl. Yet, he died of a fentanyl overdose from an opiate pill. Which one? The 853's? We have the records of every single pill collected. Or do we?

If you are law enforcement and you release the fact that watson 853/385's were found @ PP and you unequivocally state that this was the only opiate that was found, would you really say that this is the pill that contained the fentanyl? No. The iilicit market would have been flooded immediately. There was nothing moving the 853 opiate market, yet, they revealed this as the opiate of choice for Prince which more than likely, contained the fentanyl/carfentanil.

Nola, I will respond in kind. You mention many things that are overlooked by those who seem to be in the "know". We may not agree on whether it is suicide or murder, but they are subtle cues and clues. I have been resistant to revealing all, and as it is, I appear to be a transient who traffic in vague information to some. I admire those who seek. Moreso, I crave a challenge.

Hip pain is a farce. You can judge this quite clearly without having a residency at the Mayo/Cleveland Clinic. Long term use is evident. But why? Simple.

The condition of the home is revealing- You are correct. It is in decay. Those who believe a bathroom of a multimillionaire superstar should look anything like this, is a nasty hobbit themselves. I was surprised at how many women defended the state and condition of this place. Tells me something about them. You know who you are.

There are so many other points that you have made ( and in the simplest ways) which beckons the thought... Why is this so hard for some to accept and see?

I can agree... he did not purchase drugs directly. It is always a network when you're not the average"joe". He didn't have to look far. Everything is local. He's an addict and the need to feed is always now. Continued...

Nola said:

disch said:

you do sound vague and it's very difficult to follow what you're saying.

-

You've implied many many times that there's something very telling about the distance between the elevator and locations where pills were found, but have never expanded about why that is.

-

Rather than asking again about the distance between those 2 points, why dont you tell us what that distance is and why you feel that's important?

[Edited 6/18/18 21:14pm]

I wonder if Menes believes as I do, that Prince didn’t die in the elevator at all? How’s that for a conspiracy theory? Just a strong intuition on my part, combined with bits and pieces in the investigative reports that don’t make any sense.

none of it does, i also think it's possible some of his people tried to move him out, maybe a female (like Meron) realized she couldn't move him, just abandoned him in the elevator maybe thinking he was already dead. a real investigative, forensic team might have done a better job, the local yocals seem pretty lame. That's right, i said it, come at me fuckers.

Krystalkisses said:

Menes said:

You see how fast they disappear? Come out and chat you brood of vipers. You've been hemming and hawing all damn week and now you've gone silent? Howdy, Violet, hello, Krsytal. Greetings. Come out and reason. I'm Menes , pleased to meet you. Contribute!

I'm just asking questions. Because I don't understand why any of this happened. But you seem to know all. Can you spell it out for us?

His death may have taken longer than seconds as the Fentanyl seemed to travel to his liver.

Suicide makes the most sense to me as well for a myriad of reasons I mentioned earlier. Some of his associates have hinted or implied that they are starting to think that as well. Some of the associates pushing for conspiracy theories have kind of shut up...I believe they are starting to think the same thing. I think even Tyka might think that--after all, its the older siblings going after Walgreens and the doctor.

PeteSilas said:

purplerabbithole said:

I don't know if murder conspiracy is what you believe but I don't think the fast acting nature of the pill contradicts my belief that P deliberately took a pill(s) after he got into the elevator.

see, that's one reason we can figure shit out, we don't really know that much about this stuff. I've asked before if Prince would have had time from the moment of the pill intake to realize he was in trouble, i've heard that he would not but no one here can confirm that because none of you seem to have any expertise. so..., if he would have only had a few seconds, wouldn't it make sense that he got on the elevator first and then took the pills? rather than realized he was od'ing and tried to get help? if you only have a couple seconds you ain't making that far, not even out of his room probably unless he does a carl lewis. And even then, you'd think he'd try to get to a landline, not an elevator. those are the things that make me think it was suicide.

Krystalkisses said:

Menes said:

You see how fast they disappear? Come out and chat you brood of vipers. You've been hemming and hawing all damn week and now you've gone silent? Howdy, Violet, hello, Krsytal. Greetings. Come out and reason. I'm Menes , pleased to meet you. Contribute!

I'm just asking questions. Because I don't understand why any of this happened. But you seem to know all. Can you spell it out for us?

How long have you been here? Your friend Strawberry( poor misguided soul) claimed that you have been here when we first started discussing his death. If so, you should have intimate knowledge of many of the things I , and the others , have put forth. I don't know all, but I know more than your friend. That may not be saying much. Didn't she spell it for you... you know , the murder business?

peggyon said:

Krystalkisses said:

Menes said: I'm just asking questions. Because I don't understand why any of this happened. But you seem to know all. Can you spell it out for us?

His death may have taken longer than seconds as the Fentanyl seemed to travel to his liver.

Really?Like how much longer?

disch said:

you do sound vague and it's very difficult to follow what you're saying.

-

You've implied many many times that there's something very telling about the distance between the elevator and locations where pills were found, but have never expanded about why that is.

-

Rather than asking again about the distance between those 2 points, why dont you tell us what that distance is and why you feel that's important?

Menes said:

To the bat cave... how far was the elevator from anything remotely close to where the pills were found?

You see, death was quick , or so they tell us ,based upon the exorbitant amount of fentanyl in his body.... Seconds they tell me. Can you get in there, and (punch a lower floor) which means you're still conscious? Was it going up or down? Jesus , I hope I don't sound like ... that vague person. I want to consider that my thinking needs some adjusting before declaring it unworkable. April was not the beginning.

[Edited 6/18/18 21:14pm]

It appears as though your browser and settings for google are not operational, or, rather, selectively operational. With all the research you've contributed, you cant find such things? It is important. Do something. Jesus.

It was in his stomach and liver. Maybe, he took it more than once that night, but the first dose wasn't enough to kill him and the second dose starting to hit the liver, coupled with what was already in his liver did the trick. If it took long enough for him to walk to an elevator, it would have theoretically taken long enough to for him to get down the elevator. How far away from his room is the elevator. Maybe, he just waited it out in the elevator. We have no idea how long he was in there. Plus, there was no reason for him to not grab a landline and call. One would think if he had the presense of mind to go to an elevator, he would have the presense of mind to make a call. An elevator seems like a really odd decision and a real symbolic one as well...Jesus, his most famous metaphor contains an elevator.

peggyon said:

Krystalkisses said:

Menes said: I'm just asking questions. Because I don't understand why any of this happened. But you seem to know all. Can you spell it out for us?

His death may have taken longer than seconds as the Fentanyl seemed to travel to his liver.

I'm confused -- I'm not the one insisting it's important; you are. So why don't you share what you've found (and what you conclude about it) instead of falling back on cryptic language and demanding that others research for you?

Menes said:

disch said:

you do sound vague and it's very difficult to follow what you're saying.

-

You've implied many many times that there's something very telling about the distance between the elevator and locations where pills were found, but have never expanded about why that is.

-

Rather than asking again about the distance between those 2 points, why dont you tell us what that distance is and why you feel that's important?

[Edited 6/18/18 21:14pm]

It appears as though your browser and settings for google are not operational, or, rather, selectively operational. With all the research you've contributed, you cant find such things? It is important. Do something. Jesus.

Menes said:

I first starting posting on the org in 2004 but stopped following Prince/ the org around 2009 or 2010....when I heard Prince passed away I rejoined . I haven't had the time to comb through all pages of this thread. Even if I did , there are so many conflicting statements and a lot of them are all so cryptic so it is all difficult to decipher. I haven't read the whole investigative files but most of it. It does seem like people who know are omiting information. I found the thing KJ told Kim Berry was confusing and the Romeo bodyguard said Prince NEVER used that elevator. Are you trying to say Prince died in his bed and someone dumped him in the elevator?

Menes said:

peggyon said:

His death may have taken longer than seconds as the Fentanyl seemed to travel to his liver.

Really?Like how much longer

It could have been minutes which would have given him time to get to the elevator.

It seems he vomited in the elevator as well.

we do not know how many pills he swallowed and where he was located when he swallowed them. For all we know he tossed a few pills in his mouth and swallowed them while he was stepping into the elevator.

purplerabbithole said:

It was in his stomach and liver. Maybe, he took it more than once that night, but the first dose wasn't enough to kill him and the second dose starting to hit the liver, coupled with what was already in his liver did the trick. If it took long enough for him to walk to an elevator, it would have theoretically taken long enough to for him to get down the elevator. How far away from his room is the elevator. Maybe, he just waited it out in the elevator. We have no idea how long he was in there. Plus, there was no reason for him to not grab a landline and call. One would think if he had the presense of mind to go to an elevator, he would have the presense of mind to make a call. An elevator seems like a really odd decision and a real symbolic one as well...Jesus, his most famous metaphor contains an elevator.

peggyon said:

His death may have taken longer than seconds as the Fentanyl seemed to travel to his liver.

purplerabbithole said:

It was in his stomach and liver. Maybe, he took it more than once that night, but the first dose wasn't enough to kill him and the second dose starting to hit the liver, coupled with what was already in his liver did the trick. If it took long enough for him to walk to an elevator, it would have theoretically taken long enough to for him to get down the elevator. How far away from his room is the elevator. Maybe, he just waited it out in the elevator. We have no idea how long he was in there. Plus, there was no reason for him to not grab a landline and call. One would think if he had the presense of mind to go to an elevator, he would have the presense of mind to make a call. An elevator seems like a really odd decision and a real symbolic one as well...Jesus, his most famous metaphor contains an elevator.

peggyon said:

His death may have taken longer than seconds as the Fentanyl seemed to travel to his liver.

Figure it out. Where were the pills found? Where is the elevator? Addicts feed where they feel most comfortable. Hide. Can you ingest that much fentanyl and be cognitive ?It was quite a bit. Per the ME reports, measure the amount of fentanyl (injected) vs the amount of fentanyl measured that he swallowed ( via pill form) to support any reactionary measures( specifically ,consciousness). Was there enough time to make a logical decision to enter the elevator ? At some point, we have to understand what is happening once he ingested the deadly substance. This is the starting point. We can't keep going around and around, or, avoiding something like the investigation did.

disch said:

we do not know how many pills he swallowed and where he was located when he swallowed them. For all we know he tossed a few pills in his mouth and swallowed them while he was stepping into the elevator.

purplerabbithole said:

It was in his stomach and liver. Maybe, he took it more than once that night, but the first dose wasn't enough to kill him and the second dose starting to hit the liver, coupled with what was already in his liver did the trick. If it took long enough for him to walk to an elevator, it would have theoretically taken long enough to for him to get down the elevator. How far away from his room is the elevator. Maybe, he just waited it out in the elevator. We have no idea how long he was in there. Plus, there was no reason for him to not grab a landline and call. One would think if he had the presense of mind to go to an elevator, he would have the presense of mind to make a call. An elevator seems like a really odd decision and a real symbolic one as well...Jesus, his most famous metaphor contains an elevator.

Aha, see? Now you're getting somewhere! Finally.

disch said:

I'm confused -- I'm not the one insisting it's important; you are. So why don't you share what you've found (and what you conclude about it) instead of falling back on cryptic language and demanding that others research for you?

Menes said:

It appears as though your browser and settings for google are not operational, or, rather, selectively operational. With all the research you've contributed, you cant find such things? It is important. Do something. Jesus.

Demanding someone research for me? Yea, you' re so done.

Menes, seriously, if you don't want people to "keep going around and around" instead of focusing on the things YOU insist are critical, then YOU need to explain why, in standard English, these things are critical rather than berating others and demanding that they "research it" and "figure it out."

-

Because I've looked at the facts plenty and I don't see the importance of what I think you're alluding to (although I'm not certain due to your incrutable language). So convince me.

Menes said:

purplerabbithole said:

It was in his stomach and liver. Maybe, he took it more than once that night, but the first dose wasn't enough to kill him and the second dose starting to hit the liver, coupled with what was already in his liver did the trick. If it took long enough for him to walk to an elevator, it would have theoretically taken long enough to for him to get down the elevator. How far away from his room is the elevator. Maybe, he just waited it out in the elevator. We have no idea how long he was in there. Plus, there was no reason for him to not grab a landline and call. One would think if he had the presense of mind to go to an elevator, he would have the presense of mind to make a call. An elevator seems like a really odd decision and a real symbolic one as well...Jesus, his most famous metaphor contains an elevator.

Figure it out. Where were the pills found? Where is the elevator? Addicts feed where they feel most comfortable. Hide. Can you ingest that much fentanyl and be cognitive ?It was quite a bit. Per the ME reports, measure the amount of fentanyl (injected) vs the amount of fentanyl measured that he swallowed ( via pill form) to support any reactionary measures( specifically ,consciousness). Was there enough time to make a logical decision to enter the elevator ? At some point, we have to understand what is happening once he ingested the deadly substance. This is the starting point. We can't keep going around and around, or, avoiding something like the investigation did.

No frankly, I don't "see" (I've made this exact comment before, in fact, the last time you brought up this cryptic implication that there's some grave significance to the distance of his body from the location of his bill bottles). If you're not interested in engaging in a discussion using standard english and without the tiresome crytic-ness (an epidemic here, unfortunately) then I can't be bothered. I've posted many, many, many posts with my own research and theories; I'm not going to take on yours.

Menes said:

disch said:

we do not know how many pills he swallowed and where he was located when he swallowed them. For all we know he tossed a few pills in his mouth and swallowed them while he was stepping into the elevator.

Aha, see? Now you're getting somewhere! Finally.

[Edited 6/18/18 22:10pm]

Sure, that is reasonable. My suicide theory is just that -- a theory. and it is not just based on the location of his body. He could have just taken the pills on accident because he was in denial or confused about which ones he just took...Sure, that is reasonable..I admit. But other actions and statements of his (along with his sister's accounts of his cryptic messages) are making me theorize that suicide is not far-fetched. Regardless, throwing caution to the wind due to an addiction is the long version of gradual suicide anyhow if you think about it.

disch said:

we do not know how many pills he swallowed and where he was located when he swallowed them. For all we know he tossed a few pills in his mouth and swallowed them while he was stepping into the elevator.

purplerabbithole said:

It was in his stomach and liver. Maybe, he took it more than once that night, but the first dose wasn't enough to kill him and the second dose starting to hit the liver, coupled with what was already in his liver did the trick. If it took long enough for him to walk to an elevator, it would have theoretically taken long enough to for him to get down the elevator. How far away from his room is the elevator. Maybe, he just waited it out in the elevator. We have no idea how long he was in there. Plus, there was no reason for him to not grab a landline and call. One would think if he had the presense of mind to go to an elevator, he would have the presense of mind to make a call. An elevator seems like a really odd decision and a real symbolic one as well...Jesus, his most famous metaphor contains an elevator.

[Edited 6/18/18 22:11pm]

disch said:

No frankly, I don't "see," and if you're not interested in engaging in a discussion using standard english and without the tiresome crytic-ness (an epidemic here, unfortunately) then I can't be bothered. I've posted many, many, many posts with my own research and theories; I'm not going to take on yours.

Menes said:

Aha, see? Now you're getting somewhere! Finally.

[Edited 6/18/18 22:04pm]

This is stanadard. Good night.

purplerabbithole said:

Sure, that is reasonable. My suicide theory is just that -- a theory. and it is not just based on the location of his body. He could have just taken the pills on accident because he was in denial or confused about which ones he just took...Sure, that is reasonable..I admit. But other consequences and statements of his (along with his sister's accounts of his cryptic messages) are making me theorize that suicide is not a far-fetched. Regardless, throwing caution to the wind due to an addiction is a long version of suicide anyhow if you think about it.

disch said:

we do not know how many pills he swallowed and where he was located when he swallowed them. For all we know he tossed a few pills in his mouth and swallowed them while he was stepping into the elevator.

Yes, taking all things into account, suicide is very much in play. An accident is also in play, just as much.

peggyon said:

Menes said:

Really?Like how much longer

It could have been minutes which would have given him time to get to the elevator.

It seems he vomited in the elevator as well.

I think we need professionall assistance (MD) to assist us with determining how long it takes for a drug like Fentanyl to reach the liver from the time of ingestion.

And, to clarify the vomit, I believe it was found near the control panels. (I read the reports weeks ago)