PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Was there a conspiracy found? I did not watch it or read much detail

in the broomfield docu? no, that's the amazing thing, he wasn't looking for conspiracies, he just did a straight up docu on the sad life and wasted talent of whitney. Heartbreaking really but it's a cliche pretty much, the rockstar who ostracizes anyone who challenges their self destruction, supports a million people, throws away some of the greatest gifts god ever gave to anyone just because they can it seems. Of course they mention the tragedy of her struggle with sexuality, her being wounded by her own people at the soul train awards and the putting her in a pop mold that hurt her spirit and the conclusion was all of it drove her to drugs. there is a new one coming out soon where it's revealed that whitney was molested by dee dee warwick.

Pete, I can't get enough of your witty commentary. You were saying the other day how difficult it was to song-write. I am really surprised you are not popping out all kinds of songs as you have a great verbal facility.

I was thinking today that Prince was a gifted song-writer but this trait did not translate into everyday use where his grammar/sentence structure was often questionable, ie., "her and I etc"

I know this is off-topic but I couldn't resist

peggyon said:

PeteSilas said:

in the broomfield docu? no, that's the amazing thing, he wasn't looking for conspiracies, he just did a straight up docu on the sad life and wasted talent of whitney. Heartbreaking really but it's a cliche pretty much, the rockstar who ostracizes anyone who challenges their self destruction, supports a million people, throws away some of the greatest gifts god ever gave to anyone just because they can it seems. Of course they mention the tragedy of her struggle with sexuality, her being wounded by her own people at the soul train awards and the putting her in a pop mold that hurt her spirit and the conclusion was all of it drove her to drugs. there is a new one coming out soon where it's revealed that whitney was molested by dee dee warwick.

peggyon said:

PeteSilas said:

in the broomfield docu? no, that's the amazing thing, he wasn't looking for conspiracies, he just did a straight up docu on the sad life and wasted talent of whitney. Heartbreaking really but it's a cliche pretty much, the rockstar who ostracizes anyone who challenges their self destruction, supports a million people, throws away some of the greatest gifts god ever gave to anyone just because they can it seems. Of course they mention the tragedy of her struggle with sexuality, her being wounded by her own people at the soul train awards and the putting her in a pop mold that hurt her spirit and the conclusion was all of it drove her to drugs. there is a new one coming out soon where it's revealed that whitney was molested by dee dee warwick.

Interesting. I'll look for that documentary. I remember the Whitney/Bobby Brown reality show. That was hard to watch - but like a train wreck, just couldn't not watch some of it. Definitely a very sad story. Her voice was amazing.

fortuneandserendipity said:

violetcrush said:

Being that you are a (I'm assuming) medical Doctor - can you share what you think may be the full story in terms of the Opiate use? I was inclined to believe it started as pain relief from the hip surgery and escalated from that point. Please share if you have additional thoughts as a trained medical professional.

No problem violet. As with any drug there are risks involved, especially from multiple interactions where they contraindicate. An early problem with opiates is the body's tolerance builds up quickly, often within a few weeks. And taken very long term, obviously this can be very dangerous. Not only that, there are health risks from taking them over period of many years. The GI tract all the way up to the throat can be affected, and the various conditions occuring come under the umbrella of acidosis.

Gastrointestinal problems include the following: abdominal cramping or pain, burning sensation in the anus or rectum (careful with the enemas), diarrhea, ulcers, and spasms (assuming no evidence of retardation) lol.

Hope this helps.

Great, thanks. So, if Prince had been taking the Opiates for several years it makes sense that he was having frequent sore throats, stomach pain, etc.

ladygirl99 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Is it just me or does the spirit of laura live on , like a little too close for comfort?

No I am not Laura LOL if that you are implying. Laura and I had beefs and as a matter of fact she and I got at it in 2016 when she thought Prince died from just drug overdose and I told her from the beginning there is more to the story. I believed she came around too with the theory there is more to the story a few months later.

I also left the org last year because I complained to the mods of them not doing enough to disciplined her when she personal attacked me and other orgs and I got a warning too when I called Laura out. So instead of being banned, I quit the org last year. I told Laura too on here to chill out and she got a warning last year by a mod that if she didn't straight up she is gone and she just ignored the warnings so....

Yeah the org seems somewhat peaceful now and the orgers are older too and as I read she got banned and I mean she did got a lot of chances over the last 15 years or so to chill out ...

I am a big Wendy and Lisa fan and we got at it too on associated artists where I defended WL and Laura can't stand them especially the Melvoin sisters so...

Interesting. So it was the Wendy and Lisa acrimony with P over songwriting that led to him refusing to play with them for a while? Or was it the JW's attitude to lesbianism, tying P's hands? I can see why Laura took P's side. I can also see why Laura hated Susannah Melvoin, simply because she was one of P's girlfriends.

Prince supposedly loved fucking with Wendy and Lisa with their hopes of working with him again, apparently he told them he would work with them if they renounced their sexuality, and strung them along at a few points, people don't change in many ways and he was actually a punk sometimes even in the later years. But as far as i know, i never heard the claim they wrote purple rain, they are shown in the 20 year anniversy dvd saying they didn't write it but they added some of the chords that made it better.

fortuneandserendipity said:

ladygirl99 said:

No I am not Laura LOL if that you are implying. Laura and I had beefs and as a matter of fact she and I got at it in 2016 when she thought Prince died from just drug overdose and I told her from the beginning there is more to the story. I believed she came around too with the theory there is more to the story a few months later.

I also left the org last year because I complained to the mods of them not doing enough to disciplined her when she personal attacked me and other orgs and I got a warning too when I called Laura out. So instead of being banned, I quit the org last year. I told Laura too on here to chill out and she got a warning last year by a mod that if she didn't straight up she is gone and she just ignored the warnings so....

Yeah the org seems somewhat peaceful now and the orgers are older too and as I read she got banned and I mean she did got a lot of chances over the last 15 years or so to chill out ...

I am a big Wendy and Lisa fan and we got at it too on associated artists where I defended WL and Laura can't stand them especially the Melvoin sisters so...

Interesting. So it was the Wendy and Lisa acrimony with P over songwriting that led to him refusing to play with them for a while? Or was it the JW's attitude to lesbianism, tying P's hands? I can see why Laura took P's side. I can also see why Laura hated Susannah Melvoin, simply because she was one of P's girlfriends.

violetcrush said:

peggyon said:

Interesting. I'll look for that documentary. I remember the Whitney/Bobby Brown reality show. That was hard to watch - but like a train wreck, just couldn't not watch some of it. Definitely a very sad story. Her voice was amazing.

she's up there with anyone in american popular music as a singer, great gospel roots, her mom was just about as good but usually those kinds of singers can't fit into the strict pop format, whitney had the looks, the voice, the creativity, the timing everything, it had to be hard for her, they say she was the first black female to crossover like that but that's not really true, you had the sixties and seventies artists but she was definitely the first to reach that type of stardom and mass acceptance (which i guess is what they mean) but as with MJ, it destroyed her. As that one lady singer, mikki something or other said "it's always hardest fro the first soldier".

fortuneandserendipity said:

ladygirl99 said:

No I am not Laura LOL if that you are implying. Laura and I had beefs and as a matter of fact she and I got at it in 2016 when she thought Prince died from just drug overdose and I told her from the beginning there is more to the story. I believed she came around too with the theory there is more to the story a few months later.

I also left the org last year because I complained to the mods of them not doing enough to disciplined her when she personal attacked me and other orgs and I got a warning too when I called Laura out. So instead of being banned, I quit the org last year. I told Laura too on here to chill out and she got a warning last year by a mod that if she didn't straight up she is gone and she just ignored the warnings so....

Yeah the org seems somewhat peaceful now and the orgers are older too and as I read she got banned and I mean she did got a lot of chances over the last 15 years or so to chill out ...

I am a big Wendy and Lisa fan and we got at it too on associated artists where I defended WL and Laura can't stand them especially the Melvoin sisters so...

Interesting. So it was the Wendy and Lisa acrimony with P over songwriting that led to him refusing to play with them for a while? Or was it the JW's attitude to lesbianism, tying P's hands? I can see why Laura took P's side. I can also see why Laura hated Susannah Melvoin, simply because she was one of P's girlfriends.

Not to start another/new debate over that very old topic, but I believe it has been confirmed - at least by all of the band members and other associates - that the initial music Prince wrote for PR was altered after a very long rehearsal with the band, and Wendy did alter the beginning chord progression. At least that is what I've read from other sources, and it is stated on Wikipedia (yes, I know it's Wiki...but still more accurate than many sources).

*

In Matt Thorne's book, Wendy stated that Prince refused to work with them because they are gay. He was fully into the JW faith by that point.

*

Sooooo many Susannah haters Oh well, he loved her though..

PeteSilas said:

Man that is rich coming from a guy who loved lesbian porn and had lots of threesomes. ....sorry, I'm feeling bitchy today.

Krystalkisses said:

PeteSilas said:

Prince supposedly loved fucking with Wendy and Lisa with their hopes of working with him again, apparently he told them he would work with them if they renounced their sexuality, and strung them along at a few points, people don't change in many ways and he was actually a punk sometimes even in the later years. But as far as i know, i never heard the claim they wrote purple rain, they are shown in the 20 year anniversy dvd saying they didn't write it but they added some of the chords that made it better.

Man that is rich coming from a guy who loved lesbian porn and had lots of threesomes. ....sorry, I'm feeling bitchy today.

well, it goes without saying i think, religious people are wierd. I used to live with a preacher, he used to really look at me funny and both he and his wife did wierd things but they'd talk against that kind of stuff. Also, people often say it's one thing when it's really another, i don't think Prince was ever at peace that he didn't do it all alone, no one really does, he did plenty though, no doubt.

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Interesting. I'll look for that documentary. I remember the Whitney/Bobby Brown reality show. That was hard to watch - but like a train wreck, just couldn't not watch some of it. Definitely a very sad story. Her voice was amazing.

she's up there with anyone in american popular music as a singer, great gospel roots, her mom was just about as good but usually those kinds of singers can't fit into the strict pop format, whitney had the looks, the voice, the creativity, the timing everything, it had to be hard for her, they say she was the first black female to crossover like that but that's not really true, you had the sixties and seventies artists but she was definitely the first to reach that type of stardom and mass acceptance (which i guess is what they mean) but as with MJ, it destroyed her. As that one lady singer, mikki something or other said "it's always hardest fro the first soldier".

Yes, they really did transform her into the "pop" package, and it did work. She was huge. No doubt it was very hard for her to maintain that facade. Thinking about how she presented herself in the 80's compared to the late 90's/2000's, it was completely different.

PeteSilas said:

Wasn't Prince irrate over Wendy calling him a Fancy Lesbian or something like That? I love Prince but he could be unreasonable sometimes.

Krystalkisses said:

PeteSilas said:

Prince supposedly loved fucking with Wendy and Lisa with their hopes of working with him again, apparently he told them he would work with them if they renounced their sexuality, and strung them along at a few points, people don't change in many ways and he was actually a punk sometimes even in the later years. But as far as i know, i never heard the claim they wrote purple rain, they are shown in the 20 year anniversy dvd saying they didn't write it but they added some of the chords that made it better.

Man that is rich coming from a guy who loved lesbian porn and had lots of threesomes. ....sorry, I'm feeling bitchy today.

Yes, I had read his condition was them renouncing their sexuality. He did end up working with them at least a couple of times after 2000 - Wendy on Tavis Smiley and W&L at the Brit awards.

*

I always wondered if Prince held some animosity or blame toward Wendy with regard to his breakup with Susannah. Just a thought....

*

Here's the story of the composition of PR via Wikipedia:

Composition[edit]

"Purple Rain" was originally written as a country song and intended to be a collaboration with Stevie Nicks.^[14] According to Nicks, she received a 10-minute instrumental version of the song from Prince with a request to write the lyrics, but felt overwhelmed. She said: "I listened to it and I just got scared. I called him back and said, 'I can't do it. I wish I could. It's too much for me.'"^[15] At a rehearsal, Prince then asked his backing band to try the song: "I want to try something before we go home. It's mellow." According to Lisa Coleman, Prince then changed the song after Wendy Melvoin started playing guitar chords to accompany the song: "He was excited to hear it voiced differently. It took it out of that country feeling. Then we all started playing it a bit harder and taking it more seriously. We played it for six hours straight and by the end of that day we had it mostly written and arranged."^[14]

Krystalkisses said:

PeteSilas said:

well, it goes without saying i think, religious people are wierd. I used to live with a preacher, he used to really look at me funny and both he and his wife did wierd things but they'd talk against that kind of stuff. Also, people often say it's one thing when it's really another, i don't think Prince was ever at peace that he didn't do it all alone, no one really does, he did plenty though, no doubt.

Wasn't Prince irrate over Wendy calling him a Fancy Lesbian or something like That? I love Prince but he could be unreasonable sometimes.

Oh no doubt that he didn't care for that comment! They said that in their 2009 interview with Out magazine - the first official discussion of their being gay. They were asked if they thought Prince was gay when they met him. They said, "oh no, he had a feminine energy but he definitely liked women. He was a fancy lesbian". They told reporters in 2010 that they received a "Cease & Desist" letter from his attorneys, because they were talking about their past with him. I'm sure it was sent after that interview!

violetcrush said:

Wow. I never thought of it that way before. He probably did feel like the sisters ' love and closeness did disrupt how he wanted things to go. I think Big Tall Wall said it all. I did see Wendy play with him during 07/07/07. It was awesome!

violetcrush said:

Wow. Just wow.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

she's up there with anyone in american popular music as a singer, great gospel roots, her mom was just about as good but usually those kinds of singers can't fit into the strict pop format, whitney had the looks, the voice, the creativity, the timing everything, it had to be hard for her, they say she was the first black female to crossover like that but that's not really true, you had the sixties and seventies artists but she was definitely the first to reach that type of stardom and mass acceptance (which i guess is what they mean) but as with MJ, it destroyed her. As that one lady singer, mikki something or other said "it's always hardest fro the first soldier".

Yes, they really did transform her into the "pop" package, and it did work. She was huge. No doubt it was very hard for her to maintain that facade. Thinking about how she presented herself in the 80's compared to the late 90's/2000's, it was completely different.

ya, self denial, whether it's trying to be a white pop princess or a straight woman will kill you. It's almost like she had to prove how black she was and how hood she was by going as low as she could go, pathetic and sad.

Krystalkisses said:

PeteSilas said:

well, it goes without saying i think, religious people are wierd. I used to live with a preacher, he used to really look at me funny and both he and his wife did wierd things but they'd talk against that kind of stuff. Also, people often say it's one thing when it's really another, i don't think Prince was ever at peace that he didn't do it all alone, no one really does, he did plenty though, no doubt.

Wasn't Prince irrate over Wendy calling him a Fancy Lesbian or something like That? I love Prince but he could be unreasonable sometimes.

ya i heard that. Sometimes i wonder how that guy would have dealt with how us everyday joes are treated.

PeteSilas said:

Interesting. But was he always like that? Like as a teenager was he that hypersensitive about people just talking about you? You can't control everything??? I wonder if fame made him like that or if he was always that way.

Krystalkisses said:

PeteSilas said:

ya i heard that. Sometimes i wonder how that guy would have dealt with how us everyday joes are treated.

Interesting. But was he always like that? Like as a teenager was he that hypersensitive about people just talking about you? You can't control everything??? I wonder if fame made him like that or if he was always that way.

what i've been saying is that that kind of fame creates an arrested developement of sorts, the things most of us learn he didn't have to, you or i have to sometimes change our issues to deal with life, he could switch his life to fit his issues. It stunted his growth, that's why you have a 57 years old with the same silly issues he had at 20. As Ali once said "a man who thinks the same way at 50 that he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life".

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, I had read his condition was them renouncing their sexuality. He did end up working with them at least a couple of times after 2000 - Wendy on Tavis Smiley and W&L at the Brit awards.

*

I always wondered if Prince held some animosity or blame toward Wendy with regard to his breakup with Susannah. Just a thought....

*

Here's the story of the composition of PR via Wikipedia:

Composition[edit]

"Purple Rain" was originally written as a country song and intended to be a collaboration with Stevie Nicks.^[14] According to Nicks, she received a 10-minute instrumental version of the song from Prince with a request to write the lyrics, but felt overwhelmed. She said: "I listened to it and I just got scared. I called him back and said, 'I can't do it. I wish I could. It's too much for me.'"^[15] At a rehearsal, Prince then asked his backing band to try the song: "I want to try something before we go home. It's mellow." According to Lisa Coleman, Prince then changed the song after Wendy Melvoin started playing guitar chords to accompany the song: "He was excited to hear it voiced differently. It took it out of that country feeling. Then we all started playing it a bit harder and taking it more seriously. We played it for six hours straight and by the end of that day we had it mostly written and arranged."^[14]

Wow. I never thought of it that way before. He probably did feel like the sisters ' love and closeness did disrupt how he wanted things to go. I think Big Tall Wall said it all. I did see Wendy play with him during 07/07/07. It was awesome!

Oh wow, you were at that show?? That is great! How did the vibe seem to you? Wondering if Lisa and Susannah went to see her play too. I think that may have been the last time they played together. Wendy has told the story of when The Revolution were invited to a smaller club in LA in 2004, and initially they were told that only Bobby didn't have to buy a ticket for the show. When they got there they were all able to get in without paying, but they had to stand in the back. Prince was calling all of his past associates/band members and other musicians on stage to play with him, but not The Revolution. Wendy said they said goodbye to Manuela and walked out. Then Wendy got a call a few minutes later from his guitar tech to invite her to his house because he wanted her to perform with him on Tavis Smiley. Go figure!! Such mind games with him

violetcrush said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

No problem violet. As with any drug there are risks involved, especially from multiple interactions where they contraindicate. An early problem with opiates is the body's tolerance builds up quickly, often within a few weeks. And taken very long term, obviously this can be very dangerous. Not only that, there are health risks from taking them over period of many years. The GI tract all the way up to the throat can be affected, and the various conditions occuring come under the umbrella of acidosis.

Gastrointestinal problems include the following: abdominal cramping or pain, burning sensation in the anus or rectum (careful with the enemas), diarrhea, ulcers, and spasms (assuming no evidence of retardation) lol.

Hope this helps.

Great, thanks. So, if Prince had been taking the Opiates for several years it makes sense that he was having frequent sore throats, stomach pain, etc.

I am working in the ER today and was talking with 2 of the physicians about long-term opiate use. They both said that actual use does not interfere with swallowing nor result in a sore throat. But they did say that when folks withdraw, they often vomit and this can result in throat soreness (from the stomach acids) and nausea. Often users are constipated though when in withdrawal, have diarrhea

Hey guess what? Did you know that people do not perform for 3-4 hours and then hop to a 2 hour aftershow that starts at 2 am ... or record on the studio non stop for days ... without being on drugs ... period ... It’s just not possible and it happened often with prince ... there is your starting point of all of this that nobody wants to believe

fortuneandserendipity said:

ladygirl99 said:

No I am not Laura LOL if that you are implying. Laura and I had beefs and as a matter of fact she and I got at it in 2016 when she thought Prince died from just drug overdose and I told her from the beginning there is more to the story. I believed she came around too with the theory there is more to the story a few months later.

I also left the org last year because I complained to the mods of them not doing enough to disciplined her when she personal attacked me and other orgs and I got a warning too when I called Laura out. So instead of being banned, I quit the org last year. I told Laura too on here to chill out and she got a warning last year by a mod that if she didn't straight up she is gone and she just ignored the warnings so....

Yeah the org seems somewhat peaceful now and the orgers are older too and as I read she got banned and I mean she did got a lot of chances over the last 15 years or so to chill out ...

I am a big Wendy and Lisa fan and we got at it too on associated artists where I defended WL and Laura can't stand them especially the Melvoin sisters so...

Interesting. So it was the Wendy and Lisa acrimony with P over songwriting that led to him refusing to play with them for a while? Or was it the JW's attitude to lesbianism, tying P's hands? I can see why Laura took P's side. I can also see why Laura hated Susannah Melvoin, simply because she was one of P's girlfriends.

In 1998 Wendy said she and Lisa wrote Purple Rain in one of those indie musician magazines. Prince made a shade at them on his website and called them Lendy. The W/L vs Prince fans were battle out for weeks on here and on Google Groups and Housequake too. I sided with W/L because Prince had history of credit people in a funny way and plus women often get cheated out of credits in the music industry.

And also I think their estrangement went back farther than JW and his issues of them being lesbians. Wendy said in the interview around Girl Bros that Prince didn't send any condolences when her brother died. Wendy seemed very pissed and dark around that period because she lost her brother and her family were mad at Smashing Pumpkins as they blamed them for her brother's death-Her brother also played for that band too. Wendy's mood fit with the 90s grunge scene even as it was starting to fading off. To this day the Melvoins don't fuck with the Smashing Pumpkins.

Yeah this is the Google Group that talked about Purple Rain credit

subject:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.music.prince/nYrdwMjRbYA

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.music.prince/RIW496D3YXk

This how the outrage started:

Wendy: Prince always wanted money and control, period. Lisa and I wrote "Purple Rain." We came to rehearsal with the melody and the idea, and then over the next two days everyone worked on it and fleshed it out. But for "Computer Blue," we just contributed a keyboard line. That's writing? You just never knew what [credit] he would give you. He just wanted absolute power in every way, and we were too much for him. That's why he fired us.

This is the best I can do since the full article is no longer on the web. I missed that user and her name is Katrina Allisan or something like that. I bet she got a copy of that article she was a diehard Wendy and Lisa fan and she had a website dedicated to them at one point.

In 1998 Prince wasn't totally into JW yet so I don't believe their beef all started with JW.

In 2004, Wendy backtracked on that Purple Rain claimed they helped in that 20th year PurpleRain anniversary video.

I am trying avoid going off the subject here. But I hope it answers your questions.

[Edited 6/16/18 14:31pm]

Bodhitheblackdog said:

IF you and others who are looking for more answers to Prince's death have REALLY assimilated the available info re his opiate use you would be able to discern a CLEAR BRIGHT LINE leading from opiate use to needing more and more to health declining, liver/GI tract compromised...weight loss...skin yellow...need more...need more...death. Where is the mystery???

Exactly, the answer is all in the files.

PeteSilas said:

Krystalkisses said:

PeteSilas said: Interesting. But was he always like that? Like as a teenager was he that hypersensitive about people just talking about you? You can't control everything??? I wonder if fame made him like that or if he was always that way.

what i've been saying is that that kind of fame creates an arrested developement of sorts, the things most of us learn he didn't have to, you or i have to sometimes change our issues to deal with life, he could switch his life to fit his issues. It stunted his growth, that's why you have a 57 years old with the same silly issues he had at 20. As Ali once said "a man who thinks the same way at 50 that he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life".

I thought it was Miles Davis who said that, but since you're the org's resident anecdote-teller Pete, I'll take your word for it.

TrevorAyer said:

Hey guess what? Did you know that people do not perform for 3-4 hours and then hop to a 2 hour aftershow that starts at 2 am ... or record on the studio non stop for days ... without being on drugs ... period ... It’s just not possible and it happened often with prince ... there is your starting point of all of this that nobody wants to believe

I believe it. Co-Sign!!! ...it started with coke...

TrevorAyer said:

Hey guess what? Did you know that people do not perform for 3-4 hours and then hop to a 2 hour aftershow that starts at 2 am ... or record on the studio non stop for days ... without being on drugs ... period ... It’s just not possible and it happened often with prince ... there is your starting point of all of this that nobody wants to believe

Makes you wonder how he could go 48-72 hours without sleep at various points in the 80s eh? After all so-called genetic super sleepers can't do anything close to that.

fortuneandserendipity said:

TrevorAyer said:

Hey guess what? Did you know that people do not perform for 3-4 hours and then hop to a 2 hour aftershow that starts at 2 am ... or record on the studio non stop for days ... without being on drugs ... period ... It’s just not possible and it happened often with prince ... there is your starting point of all of this that nobody wants to believe

Makes you wonder how he could go 48-72 hours without sleep at various points in the 80s eh? After all so-called genetic super sleepers can't do anything close to that.

"Genetic super sleepers". Thanks for the laugh. What an embarressment.

fortuneandserendipity said:

ladygirl99 said:

No I am not Laura LOL if that you are implying. Laura and I had beefs and as a matter of fact she and I got at it in 2016 when she thought Prince died from just drug overdose and I told her from the beginning there is more to the story. I believed she came around too with the theory there is more to the story a few months later.

I also left the org last year because I complained to the mods of them not doing enough to disciplined her when she personal attacked me and other orgs and I got a warning too when I called Laura out. So instead of being banned, I quit the org last year. I told Laura too on here to chill out and she got a warning last year by a mod that if she didn't straight up she is gone and she just ignored the warnings so....

Yeah the org seems somewhat peaceful now and the orgers are older too and as I read she got banned and I mean she did got a lot of chances over the last 15 years or so to chill out ...

I am a big Wendy and Lisa fan and we got at it too on associated artists where I defended WL and Laura can't stand them especially the Melvoin sisters so...

Interesting. So it was the Wendy and Lisa acrimony with P over songwriting that led to him refusing to play with them for a while? Or was it the JW's attitude to lesbianism, tying P's hands? I can see why Laura took P's side. I can also see why Laura hated Susannah Melvoin, simply because she was one of P's girlfriends.

"JW's attitude to lesbianism, tying P's hands". Interesting how your minds works.