Ahem, can we get back to the topic of the thread which is the death investigation? There are plenty of threads about his women.

PennyPurple said:

Ahem, can we get back to the topic of the thread which is the death investigation? There are plenty of threads about his women.

Here is what would clear it up for me: the full and complete autopsy report. Just let the world see it. Was he terminally or chronically ill? What type of drug use - prescription or other - was evident? All I want to review are the facts. Unfortunately, this might seem like an invasion of privacy, but the Minnesota taxpayers paid for the autopsy - I cannot understand a law that would withhold the results of a service the citizenry paid for. He is still loved and respected. That will not change. But dragging this out is simply ridiculous.

Hi 1Sasha- Totally get your frustration...Unfortunately, Minnesota law differs from a state like California which does make autopsy results public.

Personally, I feel the "truth" will come out slowly over time, though not likely from his family or others who knew and loved him.

1Sasha said:

Here is what would clear it up for me: the full and complete autopsy report. Just let the world see it. Was he terminally or chronically ill? What type of drug use - prescription or other - was evident? All I want to review are the facts. Unfortunately, this might seem like an invasion of privacy, but the Minnesota taxpayers paid for the autopsy - I cannot understand a law that would withhold the results of a service the citizenry paid for. He is still loved and respected. That will not change. But dragging this out is simply ridiculous.

My new favourite thing to do is watch oncoming traffic go past and at the last moment make the "Wanker" sign at them.

PeteSilas said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

I know someone who to look at Frank Zappa, watch the videos, hear his music thought he must be on drugs!? But in actual fact he stayed well away from them. So assumptions can always be wrong.

[Edited 6/12/18 14:42pm]

that was what i always heard too, but a musician on facebook told me about a time Frank was considering signing him to his label, he said he went to a hotel room of Franks' and Frank had beer. Was it a big deal? no, not really, addiction still had frank with his smoking, and who knows, might have caused his cancer.

As the great man himself put it, "I get plenty strange just off making music." Most rock n roll artists and movie stars have more than dabbled in drugs. All Frank did was try cannabis a couple of times and he flat out didn't like it.

He also came across as very emotionally intelligent, like any personal shit that came his way he would manoeuvre his way round it. Whether it was Warner Bros' shitty attitude to releases; those uppity froth-spuming Conservatives he debated on 'Crossfire'; a broken back from a deranged fan pushing him off the stage; or stage 4 cancer.

1Sasha said:

PennyPurple said:

Ahem, can we get back to the topic of the thread which is the death investigation? There are plenty of threads about his women.

Here is what would clear it up for me: the full and complete autopsy report. Just let the world see it. Was he terminally or chronically ill? What type of drug use - prescription or other - was evident? All I want to review are the facts. Unfortunately, this might seem like an invasion of privacy, but the Minnesota taxpayers paid for the autopsy - I cannot understand a law that would withhold the results of a service the citizenry paid for. He is still loved and respected. That will not change. But dragging this out is simply ridiculous.

Yeah no matter what they release Prince has a very loyal following.

fortuneandserendipity said:

1Sasha said:

Here is what would clear it up for me: the full and complete autopsy report. Just let the world see it. Was he terminally or chronically ill? What type of drug use - prescription or other - was evident? All I want to review are the facts. Unfortunately, this might seem like an invasion of privacy, but the Minnesota taxpayers paid for the autopsy - I cannot understand a law that would withhold the results of a service the citizenry paid for. He is still loved and respected. That will not change. But dragging this out is simply ridiculous.

My new favourite thing to do is watch oncoming traffic go past and at the last moment make the "Wanker" sign at them.

Impossible to find funny. No one in the US knows, or cares, what that means.

fortuneandserendipity said:

PeteSilas said:

that was what i always heard too, but a musician on facebook told me about a time Frank was considering signing him to his label, he said he went to a hotel room of Franks' and Frank had beer. Was it a big deal? no, not really, addiction still had frank with his smoking, and who knows, might have caused his cancer.

As the great man himself put it, "I get plenty strange just off making music." Most rock n roll artists and movie stars have more than dabbled in drugs. All Frank did was try cannabis a couple of times and he flat out didn't like it.

He also came across as very emotionally intelligent, like any personal shit that came his way he would manoeuvre his way round it. Whether it was Warner Bros' shitty attitude to releases; those uppity froth-spuming Conservatives he debated on 'Crossfire'; a broken back from a deranged fan pushing him off the stage; or stage 4 cancer.

ya, he was an interesting, complex guy, arrogant yet easygoing, highly articulate and intelligent which is actually fairly rare for rock artists because it's mainly a folk art. i've seen some real quotes of his where he goes in on alcohol and drugs, he was also cool for picking his bands. I wish i could do that, most musicians won't accept you if you don't partake in their habits.

pricetag said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

My new favourite thing to do is watch oncoming traffic go past and at the last moment make the "Wanker" sign at them.

Impossible to find funny. No one in the US knows, or cares, what that means.

Sorry i didn't know you spoke for all of America, or knew every cultural sensitivity in every part of society?

This thread tends to get too serious and goes round in circles. People need to lighten up, including you.

fortuneandserendipity said:

PennyPurple said:

1Sasha said:

Here is what would clear it up for me: the full and complete autopsy report. Just let the world see it. Was he terminally or chronically ill? What type of drug use - prescription or other - was evident? All I want to review are the facts. Unfortunately, this might seem like an invasion of privacy, but the Minnesota taxpayers paid for the autopsy - I cannot understand a law that would withhold the results of a service the citizenry paid for. He is still loved and respected. That will not change. But dragging this out is simply ridiculous.

Yeah no matter what they release Prince has a very loyal following.

Right PennyP - but does the full autopsy really matter? It has been stated and confirmed what was responsible for taking his life that day. I really don't want or need to know any additional details. The investigation has been closed unless/until any other incriminating evidence surfaces regarding the cause of his death.

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:

Yes - I think he was a mess during that time. He wrote the Come album with the heartbreaking song Solo, and then changed to the symbol. I know part of that choice was tied to business w/ WB, but I'm sure there were very personal reasons too. In Solo he says, "I'm so lost, no one can find me. And I've been looking for so long, but now I'm done. I'm so low, solo, my name is no one." I feel that the song may be about her and their relationship too. Here's the full lyric:

[Verse]
So low, the curb looks like a skyscraper
So high, the stars are under me
So quiet, I can hear the blood rushing through my veins
So low, I feel like I'm going insane
The angels, they watch in wonder
When you made love to me
Through the rain and the thunder
You cried in ecstacy

And you were so kind
I felt sorry for all creation
Because at the time, no one was lucky
No one was lucky, no one was lucky as me

And now you're gone and I just wanna be still
So silent, I'll just let my senses sleep

It's going to be so hard to hear my voice
If I ever learn once more to speak

I'm so lost, no one can find me
And I've been looking for so long
But now I'm done
I'm so low, solo, my name is no-one

Wow! I can totally see that being about Susannah...she was more than just looks, she had a lot more going for her, I can understand why he fell for her hard...she had am ability to connect with his heart...not your typical bimbo. Not dissing the other girls. But if anyone wondered why her, listen to the woman speak , look at her heart.

Agreed Krystal K!! You are right on with your thoughts here Just funny, because while the media and many fans were focusing on which one of the models/dancers/bimbos he was after, he was really wanting her Okay Mod(s).....moving on now!!!

He didn't write those lyrics. they were from a poem by David Henry Hwang--although he might have related to them. He wrote the music. If you are looking for lyrics about loneliness and shame, There Is Lonely is a great place to look at. TIL is about the worst kind of the loneliness, the loneliness that is associated with guilt, shame and knowing that you yourself are the cause of your own loneliness because you hurt someone else (whether it is advertent or inadvertent).He quantifies the degrees of loneliness and latter is the worst kind.

THERE IS LONELY

Is it me or did the room just get darker?
Is it me or did I just lay down and die?
Is this a dream or did the world just crumble at my very feet?
How in heaven will I ever be alright?

There is lonely and there is lonely
And then there is how I feel right now
Perhaps only Cain when he'd slain his brother
Could ever come close to knowing how...yeah

violetcrush said:

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said: Wow! I can totally see that being about Susannah...she was more than just looks, she had a lot more going for her, I can understand why he fell for her hard...she had am ability to connect with his heart...not your typical bimbo. Not dissing the other girls. But if anyone wondered why her, listen to the woman speak , look at her heart.

Agreed Krystal K!! You are right on with your thoughts here Just funny, because while the media and many fans were focusing on which one of the models/dancers/bimbos he was after, he was really wanting her Okay Mod(s).....moving on now!!!

Yes, it really does matter. If you don't want or need to know anyother details, then you're on the wrong thread.

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

Yeah no matter what they release Prince has a very loyal following.

Right PennyP - but does the full autopsy really matter? It has been stated and confirmed what was responsible for taking his life that day. I really don't want or need to know any additional details. The investigation has been closed unless/until any other incriminating evidence surfaces regarding the cause of his death.

PennyPurple said:

Yes, it really does matter. If you don't want or need to know anyother details, then you're on the wrong thread.

violetcrush said:

Right PennyP - but does the full autopsy really matter? It has been stated and confirmed what was responsible for taking his life that day. I really don't want or need to know any additional details. The investigation has been closed unless/until any other incriminating evidence surfaces regarding the cause of his death.

Well, this has been a discussion that has seemed to morph into the majority of posters understanding that Prince became addicted to Opioids, and suffered a fatal overdose...with addditonal discussion about the history of his pain through the years - both physical and emotional. But I think I agree, my time on this one has reached its end. I'll jump back on if they re-open the investigation.

purplerabbithole said:

He didn't write those lyrics. they were from a poem by David Henry Hwang--although he might have related to them. He wrote the music. If you are looking for lyrics about loneliness and shame, There Is Lonely is a great place to look at. TIL is about the worst kind of the loneliness, the loneliness that is associated with guilt, shame and knowing that you yourself are the cause of your own loneliness because you hurt someone else (whether it is advertent or inadvertent).He quantifies the degrees of loneliness and latter is the worst kind.

THERE IS LONELY

Is it me or did the room just get darker?
Is it me or did I just lay down and die?
Is this a dream or did the world just crumble at my very feet?
How in heaven will I ever be alright?

There is lonely and there is lonely
And then there is how I feel right now
Perhaps only Cain when he'd slain his brother
Could ever come close to knowing how...yeah

violetcrush said:

Agreed Krystal K!! You are right on with your thoughts here Just funny, because while the media and many fans were focusing on which one of the models/dancers/bimbos he was after, he was really wanting her Okay Mod(s).....moving on now!!!

Yes, David Henry Hwang wrote the poem. However, Prince had met with him about doing a musical together, and during that meeting, he asked Hwang to write a poem about loss - about when you lose someone you love and you know they are never coming back to you. So yes, Hwang penned the poem, but Prince specified the subject for him.

*

Yes, There Is Lonely is another one about severe lonliness, written around the same time frame. The difference between the two is with Solo he is specifying being so low and lonely because he is missing the one he loves - vs. severe loneliness in general but not specifying the reason.

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

He didn't write those lyrics. they were from a poem by David Henry Hwang--although he might have related to them. He wrote the music. If you are looking for lyrics about loneliness and shame, There Is Lonely is a great place to look at. TIL is about the worst kind of the loneliness, the loneliness that is associated with guilt, shame and knowing that you yourself are the cause of your own loneliness because you hurt someone else (whether it is advertent or inadvertent).He quantifies the degrees of loneliness and latter is the worst kind.

THERE IS LONELY

Is it me or did the room just get darker?
Is it me or did I just lay down and die?
Is this a dream or did the world just crumble at my very feet?
How in heaven will I ever be alright?

There is lonely and there is lonely
And then there is how I feel right now
Perhaps only Cain when he'd slain his brother
Could ever come close to knowing how...yeah

Yes, David Henry Hwang wrote the poem. However, Prince had met with him about doing a musical together, and during that meeting, he asked Hwang to write a poem about loss - about when you lose someone you love and you know they are never coming back to you. So yes, Hwang penned the poem, but Prince specified the subject for him.

*

Yes, There Is Lonely is another one about severe lonliness, written around the same time frame. The difference between the two is with Solo he is specifying being so low and lonely because he is missing the one he loves - vs. severe loneliness in general but not specifying the reason.

Also, just looked up the information on TIL - Prince wrote the song specifically for the movie "I'll Do Anything" - so it was written to tie in with that storyline. However, he may have written from personal inspiration as well...

THere's no deep dark secrets in the long-form autopsy. What was relevant was put into the summary, as required by law. He did not have a terminal illness that just went completely unmentioned in the autopsy summary AND in the investigation files (including Dr S's unredated recollection of his discussion with and exams of prince) AND in the lawsuits his family filed. This has been discussed ad nauseum here.

-

The idea that there's some other blockbuster thing hidden in that document that lots of people have conspired to hide from the public for some reason and would Explain It All is just a pipe dream. We'll never know what exactly what going in Prince's head and heart. That wouldn't be in the autopsy. He took a lot of that to the grave.

-

What if you saw the complete autopsy and it revealed there was no terminal or chronic illness (other than the joint issues we all know about)? You'd still feel that you then completely understood what happened to him and why?

1Sasha said:

PennyPurple said:

Ahem, can we get back to the topic of the thread which is the death investigation? There are plenty of threads about his women.

Here is what would clear it up for me: the full and complete autopsy report. Just let the world see it. Was he terminally or chronically ill? What type of drug use - prescription or other - was evident? All I want to review are the facts. Unfortunately, this might seem like an invasion of privacy, but the Minnesota taxpayers paid for the autopsy - I cannot understand a law that would withhold the results of a service the citizenry paid for. He is still loved and respected. That will not change. But dragging this out is simply ridiculous.

[Edited 6/14/18 20:20pm]

disch said:

THere's no deep dark secrets in the long-form autopsy. What was relevant was put into the summary, as required by law. He did not have a terminal illness that just went completely unmentioned in the autopsy summary AND in the investigation files AND in the lawsuits his family filed. This has been discussed ad-nauseum here.

-

The idea that there's some other blockbuster thing hidden in that document that lots of people have conspired to hide from the public for some reason and would Explain It All is just a pipe dream. We'll never know what exactly what going in Prince's head and heart. That wouldn't be in the autopsy. He took a lot of that to the grave.

-

The idea that the complete autopsy is the key to understanding everything about prince is a pipe dream. It's a medical, scientific document. The truly important things are not in there.

1Sasha said:

Here is what would clear it up for me: the full and complete autopsy report. Just let the world see it. Was he terminally or chronically ill? What type of drug use - prescription or other - was evident? All I want to review are the facts. Unfortunately, this might seem like an invasion of privacy, but the Minnesota taxpayers paid for the autopsy - I cannot understand a law that would withhold the results of a service the citizenry paid for. He is still loved and respected. That will not change. But dragging this out is simply ridiculous.

Bingo, disch

I undestand the impulse that there must be an explanation: some secret hidden fact (i.e., a terminal disease) that would make it all crystal clear why this terrible thing happened. But as more and more has been revealed, and no deep dark secret of that sort has come to light, you increasingly have to believe in a conspiracy theory (that groups of people have conspired to silence for... well, no particular reason. they just have) to believe there is a deep dark secret at all

-

We know he had chronic issues with joint pain, which can be a big contribiutor to opioid use. I don't know why people need to feel like he had ANOTHER chronic and/or terminal disease on top of that.

violetcrush said:

disch said:

THere's no deep dark secrets in the long-form autopsy. What was relevant was put into the summary, as required by law. He did not have a terminal illness that just went completely unmentioned in the autopsy summary AND in the investigation files AND in the lawsuits his family filed. This has been discussed ad-nauseum here.

-

The idea that there's some other blockbuster thing hidden in that document that lots of people have conspired to hide from the public for some reason and would Explain It All is just a pipe dream. We'll never know what exactly what going in Prince's head and heart. That wouldn't be in the autopsy. He took a lot of that to the grave.

-

The idea that the complete autopsy is the key to understanding everything about prince is a pipe dream. It's a medical, scientific document. The truly important things are not in there.

Bingo, disch

disch said:

I undestand the impulse that there must be an explanation: some secret hidden fact (i.e., a terminal disease) that would make it all crystal clear why this terrible thing happened. But as more and more has been revealed, and no deep dark secret of that sort has come to light, you increasingly have to believe in a conspiracy theory (that groups of people have conspired to silence for... well, no particular reason. they just have) to believe there is a deep dark secret at all

-

We know he had chronic issues with joint pain, which can be a big contribiutor to opioid use. I don't know why people need to feel like he had ANOTHER chronic and/or terminal disease on top of that.

violetcrush said:

Bingo, disch

Right. Thousands upon thousands of people fall victim to Opioid addiction which began by trying to reduce physical pain. Prince was not super-human, and it is understandable that he could also fall victim to this type of addiction. Actually, to me it is more understandable due to the constant physical strain he put on his body for 30+ years.

violetcrush said:

disch said:

I undestand the impulse that there must be an explanation: some secret hidden fact (i.e., a terminal disease) that would make it all crystal clear why this terrible thing happened. But as more and more has been revealed, and no deep dark secret of that sort has come to light, you increasingly have to believe in a conspiracy theory (that groups of people have conspired to silence for... well, no particular reason. they just have) to believe there is a deep dark secret at all

-

We know he had chronic issues with joint pain, which can be a big contribiutor to opioid use. I don't know why people need to feel like he had ANOTHER chronic and/or terminal disease on top of that.

violetcrush said:

Right. Thousands upon thousands of people fall victim to Opioid addiction which began by trying to reduce physical pain. Prince was not super-human, and it is understandable that he could also fall victim to this type of addiction. Actually, to me it is more understandable due to the constant physical strain he put on his body for 30+ years.

he wasn't superhuman but he was exceptional, so, it still makes no sense, champions of most kinds have a super reserve for those kinds of issues, in most ways Prince showed the same heroic abilities of an elite athlete that's the part that made no sense to me, still doesn't. Hell, it's been two years, i am a songwriter too, haven't finished a song in the last two, or the last 12 years, life is on my ass, it's not easy, it's too damned hard, so i know a little of what i'm saying, the dude was a superman.

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Right. Thousands upon thousands of people fall victim to Opioid addiction which began by trying to reduce physical pain. Prince was not super-human, and it is understandable that he could also fall victim to this type of addiction. Actually, to me it is more understandable due to the constant physical strain he put on his body for 30+ years.

he wasn't superhuman but he was exceptional, so, it still makes no sense, champions of most kinds have a super reserve for those kinds of issues, in most ways Prince showed the same heroic abilities of an elite athlete that's the part that made no sense to me, still doesn't. Hell, it's been two years, i am a songwriter too, haven't finished a song in the last two, or the last 12 years, life is on my ass, it's not easy, it's too damned hard, so i know a little of what i'm saying, the dude was a superman.

Well, you can look at it another way. If it really is true that he was on the Opioids from 2010 onward, I think it's superhuman-esque to be able to go that long before succumbing to them. I don't think most people could last that long.

*

With regard to writing, recording and performing music - no question that he was superhuman. Oh, and a genius too....

[Edited 6/14/18 20:47pm]

Pete, it's never going to "make sense" to you because horrible pointless accidents don't really make sense. But they happen. The idea that there's some secret fact that people are conspiring to keep hidden that would suddently make all your questions vanish in thin air is absurd.

-

The point here it your philosophy that certain people have "heroic abilities" that make them able to conquer everything and not fall victim to the things that plague mere mortals like the rest of us is wrong.

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Right. Thousands upon thousands of people fall victim to Opioid addiction which began by trying to reduce physical pain. Prince was not super-human, and it is understandable that he could also fall victim to this type of addiction. Actually, to me it is more understandable due to the constant physical strain he put on his body for 30+ years.

he wasn't superhuman but he was exceptional, so, it still makes no sense, champions of most kinds have a super reserve for those kinds of issues, in most ways Prince showed the same heroic abilities of an elite athlete that's the part that made no sense to me, still doesn't. Hell, it's been two years, i am a songwriter too, haven't finished a song in the last two, or the last 12 years, life is on my ass, it's not easy, it's too damned hard, so i know a little of what i'm saying, the dude was a superman.

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Right. Thousands upon thousands of people fall victim to Opioid addiction which began by trying to reduce physical pain. Prince was not super-human, and it is understandable that he could also fall victim to this type of addiction. Actually, to me it is more understandable due to the constant physical strain he put on his body for 30+ years.

he wasn't superhuman but he was exceptional, so, it still makes no sense, champions of most kinds have a super reserve for those kinds of issues, in most ways Prince showed the same heroic abilities of an elite athlete that's the part that made no sense to me, still doesn't. Hell, it's been two years, i am a songwriter too, haven't finished a song in the last two, or the last 12 years, life is on my ass, it's not easy, it's too damned hard, so i know a little of what i'm saying, the dude was a superman.

Also, remember - elite athletes have a much shorter time span -certainly not 30+ years, and they get more rest/sleep, professional physical conditioning/training, and time off of the sport. Can't really compare that to Prince's situation.

disch said:

I undestand the impulse that there must be an explanation: some secret hidden fact (i.e., a terminal disease) that would make it all crystal clear why this terrible thing happened. But as more and more has been revealed, and no deep dark secret of that sort has come to light, you increasingly have to believe in a conspiracy theory (that groups of people have conspired to silence for... well, no particular reason. they just have) to believe there is a deep dark secret at all

-

We know he had chronic issues with joint pain, which can be a big contribiutor to opioid use. I don't know why people need to feel like he had ANOTHER chronic and/or terminal disease on top of that.

violetcrush said:

Bingo, disch

co-sign

The Family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the hospital/doctors in Moline and against Walgreens.

The autopsy has to be given to the Defendants in the discovery process in order for them

to properly defend a wrongful death claim.

If the case actually goes to trial, we will know all the details of the autopsy.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

he wasn't superhuman but he was exceptional, so, it still makes no sense, champions of most kinds have a super reserve for those kinds of issues, in most ways Prince showed the same heroic abilities of an elite athlete that's the part that made no sense to me, still doesn't. Hell, it's been two years, i am a songwriter too, haven't finished a song in the last two, or the last 12 years, life is on my ass, it's not easy, it's too damned hard, so i know a little of what i'm saying, the dude was a superman.

Also, remember - elite athletes have a much shorter time span -certainly not 30+ years, and they get more rest/sleep, professional physical conditioning/training, and time off of the sport. Can't really compare that to Prince's situation.

i think you can compare, elite anything seems to have a lot of overlap. I remember Ted Koppel saying that the pressures of a president would break I normal man, you know, i don't doubt that for a second. Some people have more reserves. Athletes have short careers but you could look at top anything and usually they are the same in terms of being able to access resources inside that most either don't have or can't get to. And elite athlete means guys like Jordan who the stories of his constitution are similar to Prince's, how he'd stay up all night, playing cards or whatever and he'd play the next game like it was nothing.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

The Family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the hospital/doctors in Moline and against Walgreens.

The autopsy has to be given to the Defendants in the discovery process in order for them

to properly defend a wrongful death claim.

If the case actually goes to trial, we will know all the details of the autopsy.

Wondering if those suits will go anywhere? Can Moline be held liable for not forcing Prince to stay longer? Or is it due to not testing the meds? And Walgreens was just filling a legitimate prescription, right? Or am I missing something?

don't you think if there was a Deep Dark Secret in the autopsy such as a terminal disease, that would've been something that would've been mentioned in the lawsuit (and, of course, by SOMEONE in the investigation files, but we've discussed that one)? Surely someone along the way would have dropped the ball horrifically when it came to properly addressing that terminal disease, as least as much as Walgreens and the doctors at the Moline hospital who saw him for a couple hours did?

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

The Family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the hospital/doctors in Moline and against Walgreens.

The autopsy has to be given to the Defendants in the discovery process in order for them

to properly defend a wrongful death claim.

If the case actually goes to trial, we will know all the details of the autopsy.