violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

Yes i read he wasn't very happy around 87...Susannah leaving him and all the upheavals with band members and friends.

purplerabbithole said:

I had heard the song before on youtube, but didn't understand so didn't know if i liked it...plus it was not of great sound quality. NOw, I really want to hear it again.

violetcrush said:

It's the unreleased piano track that will be included on the 1983 P&M release coming in September. It is just Prince playing piano and singing the words "Mama, Mama...drawn out, and then he sings "why the butterflies". Another lyric is "Mama...what's this strange shaking? Mama, what's this...? Mama, why the butterflies?". He's singing it like he's a small child asking his Mother what is wrong. It's a heart wrenching song. I think it's his story/expression of what and how he was feeling during those episodes.

Yes, I pulled it off of YT as well. I'm guessing it was just him recording "off the cuff" - not sure though. I like that sort of grainy quality to the sound, because I think it fits the song. Just listened to it again. The piano is very sparse and dark, and the lyric is:

*

Mama, Mama, what's this strange strange

Mama, Mama, what's this strange strange

Mama (drawn out)

Why the butterfly?

Mama, Mama, what's this shaking in me?

Mama (drawn out)

What's this crazy swirling?

Mama, why the butterfly?

Mama, Mama

Oh, all these visions in my mind, Mama

Mama, Mama, what's this?

Mama, what's this?

Mama, Mama

Why the butterfly?

Why the butterfly?

oooh oh oooh oh (in falsetto)

(Louder Piano)

Mama, where is?

Mama, butterfly

(Louder Piano)

(whispers) Why the butterfly

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, no doubt he was told that it would bring him to a "happy" place, which it clearly did. I would say calling Susan Rogers back to PP after she had quit to tell her he loved her and asking her to stay, would not have been something he would have typically done in a sober state of mind. I think he was in a low, sad, and angry place when he took the drug. Not sure if the "bucket full of Squirrel meat" was meant as a positive thing

Yes i read he wasn't very happy around 87...Susannah leaving him and all the upheavals with band members and friends.

Yes - that is my thought as well. Several "anti-Susannah" peeps on this org, so didn't want to start any arguments Also, his issues with WB started around this time, as he really wanted to do the triple album, but was forced to do the double instead.

violetcrush said:

Yes! I think he wanted to call it Crystal Ball right? Interesting you caught that! And omg, it seems like there is always a crew of people who always hate every Prince girl!!! It's incredible! I took a hiatus from Prince/the org right around when Bria was on the scene. I read on here later that the Bria treads were INSANE! All the ladies inspired cool music so i would like to thank them all personally!

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

I had heard the song before on youtube, but didn't understand so didn't know if i liked it...plus it was not of great sound quality. NOw, I really want to hear it again.

Yes, I pulled it off of YT as well. I'm guessing it was just him recording "off the cuff" - not sure though. I like that sort of grainy quality to the sound, because I think it fits the song. Just listened to it again. The piano is very sparse and dark, and the lyric is:

*

Mama, Mama, what's this strange strange

Mama, Mama, what's this strange strange

Mama (drawn out)

Why the butterfly?

Mama, Mama, what's this shaking in me?

Mama (drawn out)

What's this crazy swirling?

Mama, why the butterfly?

Mama, Mama

Oh, all these visions in my mind, Mama

Mama, Mama, what's this?

Mama, what's this?

Mama, Mama

Why the butterfly?

Why the butterfly?

oooh oh oooh oh (in falsetto)

(Louder Piano)

Mama, where is?

Mama, butterfly

(Louder Piano)

(whispers) Why the butterfly

Oh wow - just listened to the song Wednesday on YT - the one that was recorded for PR, and some of the piano verses are the same as Why The Butterflies. He recorded both in the Fall of '83..

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:

Yes - that is my thought as well. Several "anti-Susannah" peeps on this org, so didn't want to start any arguments Also, his issues with WB started around this time, as he really wanted to do the triple album, but was forced to do the double instead.

Yes! I think he wanted to call it Crystal Ball right? Interesting you caught that! And omg, it seems like there is always a crew of people who always hate every Prince girl!!! It's incredible! I took a hiatus from Prince/the org right around when Bria was on the scene. I read on here later that the Bria treads were INSANE! All the ladies inspired cool music so i would like to thank them all personally!

fans are just plain wierd, not just Prince, John Lennon fans hated yoko, Elvis fans hate Priscilla, McCartney's wife Linda was hated and I rarely hear a good thing about Bruce Springsteens wife Patti from the fans. The only Prince woman that I really didn't like was Ingrid, she was the one who reportedly got him the ecstasy at a moment he was vulnerable. I don't like her just based on that. Susan Rogers was called to Paisley that one night and she said she saw Ingrid first and then Prince, with pupils dilated, she says he scared the shit out of her and she got the fuck out after declining his offer to come back and work for him.

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:

Yes - that is my thought as well. Several "anti-Susannah" peeps on this org, so didn't want to start any arguments Also, his issues with WB started around this time, as he really wanted to do the triple album, but was forced to do the double instead.

Yes! I think he wanted to call it Crystal Ball right? Interesting you caught that! And omg, it seems like there is always a crew of people who always hate every Prince girl!!! It's incredible! I took a hiatus from Prince/the org right around when Bria was on the scene. I read on here later that the Bria treads were INSANE! All the ladies inspired cool music so i would like to thank them all personally!

Yes, it was going to be Crystal Ball, and Susannah was recording many of those songs with him. The Revolution were on a break and this was the period between finishing UTCM and doing the Hit-n-Run tour. Susannah has said this was a huge deal to him. He was also trying to plan a musical called The Dawn, and doing the Camille album.

*

Agreed about the girlfriends - people seem to have their favorite, and I guess I'm not that different. I happen to think she was "the one that got away", and he regretted losing her. However, I am not into the "bashing" of the others.

PeteSilas said:

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said: Yes! I think he wanted to call it Crystal Ball right? Interesting you caught that! And omg, it seems like there is always a crew of people who always hate every Prince girl!!! It's incredible! I took a hiatus from Prince/the org right around when Bria was on the scene. I read on here later that the Bria treads were INSANE! All the ladies inspired cool music so i would like to thank them all personally!

fans are just plain wierd, not just Prince, John Lennon fans hated yoko, Elvis fans hate Priscilla, McCartney's wife Linda was hated and I rarely hear a good thing about Bruce Springsteens wife Patti from the fans. The only Prince woman that I really didn't like was Ingrid, she was the one who reportedly got him the ecstasy at a moment he was vulnerable. I don't like her just based on that. Susan Rogers was called to Paisley that one night and she said she saw Ingrid first and then Prince, with pupils dilated, she says he scared the shit out of her and she got the fuck out after declining his offer to come back and work for him.

I think we have to be careful with the "who gave Prince the X" statement, because I think I had read somewhere else that Cat G had given it to him. Since we don't know for sure how it happened. Could have been Ingrid though. Well, at any rate, it was at least partly responsible for LoveSexy, so it wasn't all bad

*

Yes, Susan knew he was on something. When Cat has been interviewed about that time period she has stated she doesn't want to talk about it - other than to say it was a very difficult time for Prince.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

fans are just plain wierd, not just Prince, John Lennon fans hated yoko, Elvis fans hate Priscilla, McCartney's wife Linda was hated and I rarely hear a good thing about Bruce Springsteens wife Patti from the fans. The only Prince woman that I really didn't like was Ingrid, she was the one who reportedly got him the ecstasy at a moment he was vulnerable. I don't like her just based on that. Susan Rogers was called to Paisley that one night and she said she saw Ingrid first and then Prince, with pupils dilated, she says he scared the shit out of her and she got the fuck out after declining his offer to come back and work for him.

I think we have to be careful with the "who gave Prince the X" statement, because I think I had read somewhere else that Cat G had given it to him. Since we don't know for sure how it happened. Could have been Ingrid though. Well, at any rate, it was at least partly responsible for LoveSexy, so it wasn't all bad

*

Yes, Susan knew he was on something. When Cat has been interviewed about that time period she has stated she doesn't want to talk about it - other than to say it was a very difficult time for Prince.

Here's the thread where the Mod explained the E story.

http://prince.org/msg/7/433074

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

fans are just plain wierd, not just Prince, John Lennon fans hated yoko, Elvis fans hate Priscilla, McCartney's wife Linda was hated and I rarely hear a good thing about Bruce Springsteens wife Patti from the fans. The only Prince woman that I really didn't like was Ingrid, she was the one who reportedly got him the ecstasy at a moment he was vulnerable. I don't like her just based on that. Susan Rogers was called to Paisley that one night and she said she saw Ingrid first and then Prince, with pupils dilated, she says he scared the shit out of her and she got the fuck out after declining his offer to come back and work for him.

I think we have to be careful with the "who gave Prince the X" statement, because I think I had read somewhere else that Cat G had given it to him. Since we don't know for sure how it happened. Could have been Ingrid though. Well, at any rate, it was at least partly responsible for LoveSexy, so it wasn't all bad

*

Yes, Susan knew he was on something. When Cat has been interviewed about that time period she has stated she doesn't want to talk about it - other than to say it was a very difficult time for Prince.

I mentioned it here because i heard an interview where cat claimed it, but then she had another interview where she said prince didn't allow any drug use, so what do you believe with a person like that? I just never liked Ingrid, a lot of women were oppurtunistic around him but she really rubbed me wrong, bad vibes.

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

I think we have to be careful with the "who gave Prince the X" statement, because I think I had read somewhere else that Cat G had given it to him. Since we don't know for sure how it happened. Could have been Ingrid though. Well, at any rate, it was at least partly responsible for LoveSexy, so it wasn't all bad

*

Yes, Susan knew he was on something. When Cat has been interviewed about that time period she has stated she doesn't want to talk about it - other than to say it was a very difficult time for Prince.

I mentioned it here because i heard an interview where cat claimed it, but then she had another interview where she said prince didn't allow any drug use, so what do you believe with a person like that? I just never liked Ingrid, a lot of women were oppurtunistic around him but she really rubbed me wrong, bad vibes.

Check out PennyP's link info to a 2007 thread titled The Black Album/Ecstasy - created by a member who had just spent time getting to know Cat a a modeling shoot. She confirmed getting the X for Prince from Anthony Keidis of the Red Hot Chili Peppers, and flew to MN to get it to him. According to her story, Prince MET Ingrid that night when he went to a local club after taking the drug.

*

I think Ingrid was okay. She inspired some of the songs for LoveSexy - her poetry did. Also, she got a bum deal with Lenny K and Madonna taking her song "Justify My Love". Although, she did sue and win in court....

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

I think we have to be careful with the "who gave Prince the X" statement, because I think I had read somewhere else that Cat G had given it to him. Since we don't know for sure how it happened. Could have been Ingrid though. Well, at any rate, it was at least partly responsible for LoveSexy, so it wasn't all bad

*

Yes, Susan knew he was on something. When Cat has been interviewed about that time period she has stated she doesn't want to talk about it - other than to say it was a very difficult time for Prince.

Here's the thread where the Mod explained the E story.

http://prince.org/msg/7/433074

Good digging!!! Interesting read. I imagine the story is accurate...

PeteSilas said:

That is a great point. I guess that is the nature of fanaticism. I read this tribute magazine on Prince and he was talking about this woman who come to Paisley Park like every day and Prince ended up going out there and was like " How do you want this to end?" Like trying to get her to think about what was driving her to do this and questioning what she hoped to achieve. He said she never came back after that. I thought that was brilliant!

violetcrush said:

Anthony Kiedus, that is just so wild!

violetcrush said:

Yes i think she would have made a great wife for Prince had he married her. I don't think he was ready. Bad timing.

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, it was going to be Crystal Ball, and Susannah was recording many of those songs with him. The Revolution were on a break and this was the period between finishing UTCM and doing the Hit-n-Run tour. Susannah has said this was a huge deal to him. He was also trying to plan a musical called The Dawn, and doing the Camille album.

*

Agreed about the girlfriends - people seem to have their favorite, and I guess I'm not that different. I happen to think she was "the one that got away", and he regretted losing her. However, I am not into the "bashing" of the others.

Yes i think she would have made a great wife for Prince had he married her. I don't think he was ready. Bad timing.

Well, I think he had decided he was ready by late '86, but she was already out the door. They had been on and off since '84. She has stated she was pulling away from him by Summer/Fall of '86 - even before the breakup of The Revolution. She has stated that she had had enough - I'm sure due to both the philandering with other women, and just the difficulty of being in a relationship with him. She stated he spent over 2 months in CA trying to convince her to come back to MN. I'm sure by then she had grown enough and realized he would not really change - even if he tried to commit. Yes, no doubt she would have been good for him.

violetcrush said:

I hope she writes a book one day. She is so eloquent. Thanks for the info. Sounded like an emotional rollercoaster ride!

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:

Well, I think he had decided he was ready by late '86, but she was already out the door. They had been on and off since '84. She has stated she was pulling away from him by Summer/Fall of '86 - even before the breakup of The Revolution. She has stated that she had had enough - I'm sure due to both the philandering with other women, and just the difficulty of being in a relationship with him. She stated he spent over 2 months in CA trying to convince her to come back to MN. I'm sure by then she had grown enough and realized he would not really change - even if he tried to commit. Yes, no doubt she would have been good for him.

I hope she writes a book one day. She is so eloquent. Thanks for the info. Sounded like an emotional rollercoaster ride!

I hope so too! And I hope she feels comfortable enough to share the detail - even if she spent time with him after those years.

violetcrush said:

That part in her interview podcast when in 1993 where he shows up at her door out of the blue for a hug and says no one can hug like u.... That touched me , 1993 was the year I Really got into him, I used to be worried for him back then like he was on the verge of a nervous breakdown or something .

Krystalkisses said:

PeteSilas said:

fans are just plain wierd, not just Prince, John Lennon fans hated yoko, Elvis fans hate Priscilla, McCartney's wife Linda was hated and I rarely hear a good thing about Bruce Springsteens wife Patti from the fans. The only Prince woman that I really didn't like was Ingrid, she was the one who reportedly got him the ecstasy at a moment he was vulnerable. I don't like her just based on that. Susan Rogers was called to Paisley that one night and she said she saw Ingrid first and then Prince, with pupils dilated, she says he scared the shit out of her and she got the fuck out after declining his offer to come back and work for him.

That is a great point. I guess that is the nature of fanaticism. I read this tribute magazine on Prince and he was talking about this woman who come to Paisley Park like every day and Prince ended up going out there and was like " How do you want this to end?" Like trying to get her to think about what was driving her to do this and questioning what she hoped to achieve. He said she never came back after that. I thought that was brilliant!

ya, i remember that story, i thought of how cool that he was about that, i don't know if he was always that kind, it would be kinda hard to be kind to unbalanced people, John Lennon was seen in a docu letting one of those schizo's come in and eat with him, well, you saw how he ended up.

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:

I hope so too! And I hope she feels comfortable enough to share the detail - even if she spent time with him after those years.

That part in her interview podcast when in 1993 where he shows up at her door out of the blue for a hug and says no one can hug like u.... That touched me , 1993 was the year I Really got into him, I used to be worried for him back then like he was on the verge of a nervous breakdown or something .

Yes - I think he was a mess during that time. He wrote the Come album with the heartbreaking song Solo, and then changed to the symbol. I know part of that choice was tied to business w/ WB, but I'm sure there were very personal reasons too. In Solo he says, "I'm so lost, no one can find me. And I've been looking for so long, but now I'm done. I'm so low, solo, my name is no one." I feel that the song may be about her and their relationship too. Here's the full lyric:

[Verse]
So low, the curb looks like a skyscraper
So high, the stars are under me
So quiet, I can hear the blood rushing through my veins
So low, I feel like I'm going insane
The angels, they watch in wonder
When you made love to me
Through the rain and the thunder
You cried in ecstacy

And you were so kind
I felt sorry for all creation
Because at the time, no one was lucky
No one was lucky, no one was lucky as me

And now you're gone and I just wanna be still
So silent, I'll just let my senses sleep

It's going to be so hard to hear my voice
If I ever learn once more to speak

I'm so lost, no one can find me
And I've been looking for so long
But now I'm done
I'm so low, solo, my name is no-one

1Sasha said:

I agree with you, but then I hear his lyrics playing in my head form “The Truth” : “What if half the things I say turn out to be a lie?”
[Edited 6/14/18 8:48am]

Spanky said:

1Sasha said:

I have never been one of those people who twinned song lyrics with my life. I am from the American Bandstand generation - if it has a good beat, I can dance to it. That being said, Prince was, IMO, more open than most songwriters about putting his heart and his life into his lyrics. I never doubted for a minute that he was telling the truth. That is why I think AOA is his goodbye to his fans and the world. He was looking at the end and letting it all go.

I agree with you, but then I hear his lyrics playing in my head form “The Truth” : “What if half the things I say turn out to be a lie?” [Edited 6/14/18 8:48am]

I think "The Truth" lyrics are in reference to his JW beliefs vs other religions - not about the stories he tells about his own life within his songs. He had been studying the religion for quite some time, and had begun speaking about it in public, as well as in his songs. When he performed on one of the awards shows (BET, maybe?) he preached "perhaps people lied about how someone died" - meaning, most Christians believe Jesus was crucified on a "Cross"; however, JW believe he was killed on an upright stake, or "Stauros". His speaking of "The Truth" was relating to religious beliefs.

violetcrush said:

Spanky said:

1Sasha said: I agree with you, but then I hear his lyrics playing in my head form “The Truth” : “What if half the things I say turn out to be a lie?” [Edited 6/14/18 8:48am]

I think "The Truth" lyrics are in reference to his JW beliefs vs other religions - not about the stories he tells about his own life within his songs. He had been studying the religion for quite some time, and had begun speaking about it in public, as well as in his songs. When he performed on one of the awards shows (BET, maybe?) he preached "perhaps people lied about how someone died" - meaning, most Christians believe Jesus was crucified on a "Cross"; however, JW believe he was killed on an upright stake, or "Stauros". His speaking of "The Truth" was relating to religious beliefs.

Also, just looked at the lyrics to The Truth again - he sings, "what if half the things ever said turned out to be a lie" - not, half the things I ever said....

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

I think "The Truth" lyrics are in reference to his JW beliefs vs other religions - not about the stories he tells about his own life within his songs. He had been studying the religion for quite some time, and had begun speaking about it in public, as well as in his songs. When he performed on one of the awards shows (BET, maybe?) he preached "perhaps people lied about how someone died" - meaning, most Christians believe Jesus was crucified on a "Cross"; however, JW believe he was killed on an upright stake, or "Stauros". His speaking of "The Truth" was relating to religious beliefs.

Also, just looked at the lyrics to The Truth again - he sings, "what if half the things ever said turned out to be a lie" - not, half the things I ever said....

With regard to the honesty of his lyrics, I always go back to two things:

*

The song For You on his first album...."All this and more is for you, with love, sincerity, and deepest care my life with you I share"

*

In one or more interviews he has said if you want to know about my life listen to my music - it's all there....

[Edited 6/14/18 9:38am]

violetcrush said:

This is just my personal conjecture:
Regarding the Ecstacy, I kind of assumed he tried it to see if it enhanced his creativity. I remember that time-period in my own life. Many "creative types" around me were using it as a tool to "help their creative process". Painters, writers, musicians...of course there were also those who enjoyed taking it because it made them "feel the love and joy in everyone". Let's not forget, it wasn't too long before that time period when Ecstacy was actually a legal drug prescribed by Dr's to couples having sexual/relationship communication problems. It was given to couples to help lower their inhibited interactions with one another and actually had a fairly high success rate (no, I don't have a link for that). So I wonder if he, along with others, didn't see it as a "street drug" so much because it was actually for a time used for "medical reasons".
Just a thought. Not condemning or condoning anything or anyone.

violetcrush said:

Boy that is the truth! Looking back in retrospect, he said SO much and revealed who he was. I actually think that is why he ended up with such an incredible loyal, cult following compared to other artists. Because he was so authentic, not manufactured or contrived ....so people easily connected emotionally to the music/lyrics...he was like a friend who revealed all and confided in you. Love that Man!
[Edited 6/14/18 10:33am]

violetcrush said:

Wow! I can totally see that being about Susannah...she was more than just looks, she had a lot more going for her, I can understand why he fell for her hard...she had am ability to connect with his heart...not your typical bimbo. Not dissing the other girls. But if anyone wondered why her, listen to the woman speak , look at her heart.

PeteSilas said:

Yes. I'm sorry Prince had to deal with that crap...but the dude was tough and smart...he could deferiate the crazy from the admirers...i remember I read on here some guy said his sister or girlfriend met him and the guy said to Prince "She worships you" and Prince said to her "Don't worship me, worship God"