ChocolateBox3121 said:

PennyPurple said:

Chazz is a little cray cray, but it is good that he said that.

Please don't EVER address me,reply to my post, or send me anymore Org Notes again.

Huh? Don't start your shit with me, I don't think I've ever sent you an org note, if that is the case feel free to forward it to the MOD, to prove that I did. So don't go lyin. And I'll do as I please. If I want to reply, I will and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. If you don't want anybody replying to your posts, then don't post.

I've often wondered if Hayward was abusive to Omarr, or just to Prince and Tyka. Prince's mom was married 3 times. The 1st time it was to Mr. Jackson, had a child in Kansas City, and left the child for his dad to raise. The 2nd time was to Prince's dad, and of course the 3rd was to Hayward. She didn't have a very good track record.

I think Prince used on and off for years, even Mayte said some of her pain pills would go missing.

From M2's tweet about Charlie Sheen, he probably used while married to her too.

KJ made a statement to the police that he removed all drugs and alcohol from PP. Why would KJ be worried about the alcohol?

PennyPurple said:

I've often wondered if Hayward was abusive to Omarr, or just to Prince and Tyka. Prince's mom was married 3 times. The 1st time it was to Mr. Jackson, had a child in Kansas City, and left the child for his dad to raise. The 2nd time was to Prince's dad, and of course the 3rd was to Hayward. She didn't have a very good track record.

I think Prince used on and off for years, even Mayte said some of her pain pills would go missing.

From M2's tweet about Charlie Sheen, he probably used while married to her too.

KJ made a statement to the police that he removed all drugs and alcohol from PP. Why would KJ be worried about the alcohol?

Well, the lyric "maybe you're just like my Mother, she's never satisfied" in When Doves Cry definitely eludes to his feeling that she had a hard time in her relationships with men. However, I believe she and Hayward stayed together until they both passed. So, it's possible it just took her awhile to find someone compatible with her.

*

Yes, Mayte has stated in a more recent interview that early on in their marriage he was rushed to the hospital to get his stomach pumped due to taking too many pills - not sure what type of pill, and/or mixing pills with alcohol. He told her he had a Migraine. She also stated he asked her to flush a bottle of pills on another occasion. The 90's were not always a happy time for him.

*

I'm sure Prince was experiencing hip pain/body aches during the time he was married to Manuela.

*

It's possible that Kirk did not want Prince to mix the alcohol and pills - can often be a very bad combination....

i don't know, times was different then, we got beat on, had parental breakups a lot in those times, not many of the folks I knew really blame a lot on that. You can't go your whole life blaming someone. As I've said before with Prince, I think maybe his superstardom kept him from maturing in a lot of key ways. Life has always been hard, always, the further back in time you go, the harder it was so, all the "abuse" and victimhood really only mean so much to me anymore. And I'm not trying to minimize things, a lot of bad things happen, a lot of damage occurs but I also think we make the problems worse by not dealing with them and managing them and trying to grow past them. Just my opinion.

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, correct on all points, I think. In a written interview about the movie Purple Rain and how closely it mirrored his life, he said the scene where his Mom was crying was the only part that was true to his own life - and I don't think the crying was due to his Dad physically abusing her, but probably more due to her feeling alone and/or frustrated with their situation. I agree that, at least for stretches of time after the success of PR, he was closer to his Mother - and definitely his Father. I think he probably always felt somewhat abandoned by his Mother though. Watching his intense performance of 'Motherless Child" in 1999/2000 time frame shows he really connected with that song.

Oh, and also - Steve Parke has stated that Prince told him when he was 5 yrs old someone (he didn't specify who, but most likely one of his older siblings) took him to see the movie Psycho. So, I think lack of parental nurturing, poor choices by parents/siblings, childhood teasing, being bused to an all white Elementary school, and too much time alone all factored into worsening his innate complexities.

PeteSilas said:

i don't know, times was different then, we got beat on, had parental breakups a lot in those times, not many of the folks I knew really blame a lot on that. You can't go your whole life blaming someone. As I've said before with Prince, I think maybe his superstardom kept him from maturing in a lot of key ways. Life has always been hard, always, the further back in time you go, the harder it was so, all the "abuse" and victimhood really only mean so much to me anymore. And I'm not trying to minimize things, a lot of bad things happen, a lot of damage occurs but I also think we make the problems worse by not dealing with them and managing them and trying to grow past them. Just my opinion.

violetcrush said:

Oh, and also - Steve Parke has stated that Prince told him when he was 5 yrs old someone (he didn't specify who, but most likely one of his older siblings) took him to see the movie Psycho. So, I think lack of parental nurturing, poor choices by parents/siblings, childhood teasing, being bused to an all white Elementary school, and too much time alone all factored into worsening his innate complexities.

Yes - I think overall most in this discussion are of the opinion that, while Prince did have obstacles and tough situations to deal with as a child/teenager, it was more his innate emotional/anti-social issues that were to blame for his struggle with relationships throughout his lifetime.

I think it was equally the tough situations and P's innate problems.. I can't agree that these situations were just what most people go through. Yes, people have gone through much much worse but his life was muchmore complicated than mine was as a kid or/as as adult (and I, like most people, have a few issues--although I am generally okay). Some things to consider about how confusing P's life might have been---autism, small size, bused to all white school, divorce, some physical abuse, epilepsy, teasing, relgious zealousness from parents, absentee mother (maybe not her fault, but still), self-involved father, strict step dad, only a kid sister to play with (half siblings weren't close), silly name that was ridiculed, working at a young age, graduating a year early cutting into any development of a personal life, stress of fame, temptation of fame, the regret of fame, highly competitive music scenes (both Minneapolis and Hollywood), death threats due to his supposed gayness, later deaths of children and parents, physical fraility and pain..) there was never a time when Prince could blend in as just a normal person...even without the makeup and heels, he would have stood out just for his lack of size (at least the makeup and heels were a type of attention that he could control and change whtenever he wanted to) . I am not saying these things excuse all bad or self-destructive behaviors but they cloud the waters and make personal decision-making more complicated. Control issues are often the result of these confusing situations--a person desperately clinging to some sense of order. I don't think any one problem stood out as unbearable; it was probably all of them added together (maybe making it harder to ask for help due to the subtetly of his problems...I suspect he let depressive episodes go without the care he needed--because of subcultural influences--the belief that a strong black man can't admit his frailties because it would be like painting a target on his chest.)

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

i don't know, times was different then, we got beat on, had parental breakups a lot in those times, not many of the folks I knew really blame a lot on that. You can't go your whole life blaming someone. As I've said before with Prince, I think maybe his superstardom kept him from maturing in a lot of key ways. Life has always been hard, always, the further back in time you go, the harder it was so, all the "abuse" and victimhood really only mean so much to me anymore. And I'm not trying to minimize things, a lot of bad things happen, a lot of damage occurs but I also think we make the problems worse by not dealing with them and managing them and trying to grow past them. Just my opinion.

Yes - I think overall most in this discussion are of the opinion that, while Prince did have obstacles and tough situations to deal with as a child/teenager, it was more his innate emotional/anti-social issues that were to blame for his struggle with relationships throughout his lifetime.

[Edited 6/13/18 14:18pm]

[Edited 6/13/18 14:19pm]

I thought his epilepsy stopped by the age of 3 or 5?

ya, but that's my point, that is just life. Everyone has some crap to deal with, one of the biggest growing up points for me was realizing i wasn't special, everyone has somethings they deal with, just get on with life. I don't trust the whole counseling industry anymore because I've got experience with it and it's just a way for these useless people to have a career. People always want drama and tragedy, happened with Elvis, his mom died, he was bullied, he had his career ruined by the military, he went through a divorce which supposedly was the proverbial straw that broke the camels' back, i really don't know about all that. I think these guys might have more issues stemming from how coddled and catered to they are. Not having any boundaries and illusory freedoms, i think it has to cause a lot of boredom (how many beautiful women can you screw before it's totally meaningless?) and a lack of structure from a permissive world and lifestyle. I think that kills these guys. Some say it's the artistic temperament too, i think that could be. Very few genius' have been mentally healthy.

purplerabbithole said:

I think it was equally the tough situations and P's innate problems.. I can't agree that these situations were just what most people go through. Yes, people have gone through much much worse but his life was muchmore complicated than mine was as a kid or/as as adult (and I, like most people, have a few issues--although I am generally okay). Some things to consider about how confusing P's life might have been---autism, small size, bused to all white school, divorce, some physical abuse, epilepsy, teasing, relgious zealousness from parents, absentee mother (maybe not her fault, but still), self-involved father, strict step dad, only a kid sister to play with (half siblings weren't close), silly name that was ridiculed, working at a young age, graduating a year early cutting into any development of a personal life, stress of fame, temptation of fame, the regret of fame, highly competitive music scenes (both Minneapolis and Hollywood), death threats due to his supposed gayness, later deaths of children and parents, physical fraility and pain..) there was never a time when Prince could blend in as just a normal person...even without the makeup and heels, he would have stood out just for his lack of size (at least the makeup and heels were a type of attention that he could control and change whtenever he wanted to) . I am not saying these things excuse all bad or self-destructive behaviors but they cloud the waters and make personal decision-making more complicated. Control issues are often the result of these confusing situations--a person desperately clinging to some sense of order. I don't think any one problem stood out as unbearable; it was probably all of them added together (maybe making it harder to ask for help due to the subtetly of his problems...I suspect he let depressive episodes go without the care he needed--because of subcultural influences--the belief that a strong black man can't admit his frailties because it would be like painting a target on his chest.)

violetcrush said:

Yes - I think overall most in this discussion are of the opinion that, while Prince did have obstacles and tough situations to deal with as a child/teenager, it was more his innate emotional/anti-social issues that were to blame for his struggle with relationships throughout his lifetime.

[Edited 6/13/18 14:18pm]

[Edited 6/13/18 14:19pm]

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, I think possibly the reason he had such a strong "trip" on the E was because he was not a drug user, and he was also a small guy. I have my thoughts on the things that drove him to that "dark" point and wanting to try the drug, but I will keep them to myself, as they would no doubt start a firestorm of debates here!! He did occasionally have a drink or two - usually wine I think. He mentions this in Insatiable - "I had a little wine, never anything stronger, so baby, I'm a little gone. Yeah, that's what I'll blame this on..." Also, in Alan Light's 1993 interview he writes about he and Prince drinking Port during the interview.

Now you got me intrigued on what you think drove him to experiment with E. 😄

The EXPERIENCE

I tried it once just so I could KNOW what it was all about...

Makes you all Lovely Dovey..

Like a Bucket full of Squirrel meat !

peggyon said:

Fauxie said:

I think if you add up all of the speculation, emotion, guesswork and feelings it's pretty clear what happened.

Not so...he had high levels of Fentanyl in both his stomach and liver which suggests oral ingestion.

Yeah, no shit.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

PennyPurple said:

Chazz is a little cray cray, but it is good that he said that.

Please don't EVER address me,reply to my post, or send me anymore Org Notes again.

The fuck happened here? What did I miss?

disch said:

I'm also not going to take song lyrics from his 20s as some proclamation of his belief system and actions that he carried through every day of his whole life, nor would I assume that Prince acted out everything he preached (we all have beliefs that don't match our behavior.

I only brought that up becuase Prince always said "everything you need to know about me is in my music". Also, what about his song lyrics in his 40's or 50's? Are they any less real, sincere or unrevealing or just wiser?

Where's your cutoff date for when Prince's lyrics mean something or are/are not revealing? Little confused byt his thing you wrote here.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

i will thanks, i've heard he did splits post 1999 but never seen it for myself.

He must have stopped the splits after that tour. He definitely didn't do them during the Musicology shows and beyond. Let me know if you find it - my search came up with nothing...

He did spits both times I saw the H&R 2000 shows.

herb4 said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Please don't EVER address me,reply to my post, or send me anymore Org Notes again.

The fuck happened here? What did I miss?

Beats the F out of me.

PennyPurple said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Please don't EVER address me,reply to my post, or send me anymore Org Notes again.

Huh? Don't start your shit with me, I don't think I've ever sent you an org note, if that is the case feel free to forward it to the MOD, to prove that I did. So don't go lyin. And I'll do as I please. If I want to reply, I will and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. If you don't want anybody replying to your posts, then don't post.

PennyPurple said:

I thought his epilepsy stopped by the age of 3 or 5?

Penny - Sacrifice Of Victor lyric states "epileptic until the age of 7". He mentioned this during his interview with Tavis Smiley in 2009/2010 as well. He was old enough to remember. I think he is singing about it in the song "Mama/Why The Butterflies".

herb4 said:

disch said:

I'm also not going to take song lyrics from his 20s as some proclamation of his belief system and actions that he carried through every day of his whole life, nor would I assume that Prince acted out everything he preached (we all have beliefs that don't match our behavior.

I only brought that up becuase Prince always said "everything you need to know about me is in my music". Also, what about his song lyrics in his 40's or 50's? Are they any less real, sincere or unrevealing or just wiser?

Where's your cutoff date for when Prince's lyrics mean something or are/are not revealing? Little confused byt his thing you wrote here.

Herb - I think disch's response was to my comment about his speaking to the crowds during the LoveSexy concerts. I agree with you - he sang about the negative effects of drug use throughout his lifetime - it wasn't just during the LoveSexy tour. Prior to that it was "Pop Life" with "what you puttin up your nose? Is that where your money goes?". Prior to that it was OF4S with "green and white always turn to blue"...etc, etc...

herb4 said:

violetcrush said:

He must have stopped the splits after that tour. He definitely didn't do them during the Musicology shows and beyond. Let me know if you find it - my search came up with nothing...

He did spits both times I saw the H&R 2000 shows.

Yes, that is what we've said here. However, don't believe he continued w/ the splits after that 2000 H&R tour....

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said:

Yes, I think possibly the reason he had such a strong "trip" on the E was because he was not a drug user, and he was also a small guy. I have my thoughts on the things that drove him to that "dark" point and wanting to try the drug, but I will keep them to myself, as they would no doubt start a firestorm of debates here!! He did occasionally have a drink or two - usually wine I think. He mentions this in Insatiable - "I had a little wine, never anything stronger, so baby, I'm a little gone. Yeah, that's what I'll blame this on..." Also, in Alan Light's 1993 interview he writes about he and Prince drinking Port during the interview.

Now you got me intrigued on what you think drove him to experiment with E. 😄

Ha Ha Krystal!! Don't tempt me....

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

I thought his epilepsy stopped by the age of 3 or 5?

Penny - Sacrifice Of Victor lyric states "epileptic until the age of 7". He mentioned this during his interview with Tavis Smiley in 2009/2010 as well. He was old enough to remember. I think he is singing about it in the song "Mama/Why The Butterflies".

Thanks Violet.

violetcrush said:

herb4 said:

I only brought that up becuase Prince always said "everything you need to know about me is in my music". Also, what about his song lyrics in his 40's or 50's? Are they any less real, sincere or unrevealing or just wiser?

Where's your cutoff date for when Prince's lyrics mean something or are/are not revealing? Little confused byt his thing you wrote here.

Herb - I think disch's response was to my comment about his speaking to the crowds during the LoveSexy concerts. I agree with you - he sang about the negative effects of drug use throughout his lifetime - it wasn't just during the LoveSexy tour. Prior to that it was "Pop Life" with "what you puttin up your nose? Is that where your money goes?". Prior to that it was OF4S with "green and white always turn to blue"...etc, etc...

Oh, and we should mention "The Love We Make" - the beautiful song written after the death of Jonathon Melvoin, who overdosed on Heroine in July 1996....

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

Penny - Sacrifice Of Victor lyric states "epileptic until the age of 7". He mentioned this during his interview with Tavis Smiley in 2009/2010 as well. He was old enough to remember. I think he is singing about it in the song "Mama/Why The Butterflies".

Thanks Violet.

Lovejunky said:

Krystalkisses said:

violetcrush said: Now you got me intrigued on what you think drove him to experiment with E. 😄

The EXPERIENCE

I tried it once just so I could KNOW what it was all about...

Makes you all Lovely Dovey..

Like a Bucket full of Squirrel meat !

Yes, no doubt he was told that it would bring him to a "happy" place, which it clearly did. I would say calling Susan Rogers back to PP after she had quit to tell her he loved her and asking her to stay, would not have been something he would have typically done in a sober state of mind. I think he was in a low, sad, and angry place when he took the drug. Not sure if the "bucket full of Squirrel meat" was meant as a positive thing

Help me out with the lyrics to "Why the butterflies."

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

I thought his epilepsy stopped by the age of 3 or 5?

Penny - Sacrifice Of Victor lyric states "epileptic until the age of 7". He mentioned this during his interview with Tavis Smiley in 2009/2010 as well. He was old enough to remember. I think he is singing about it in the song "Mama/Why The Butterflies".

purplerabbithole said:

Help me out with the lyrics to "Why the butterflies."

violetcrush said:

Penny - Sacrifice Of Victor lyric states "epileptic until the age of 7". He mentioned this during his interview with Tavis Smiley in 2009/2010 as well. He was old enough to remember. I think he is singing about it in the song "Mama/Why The Butterflies".

It's the unreleased piano track that will be included on the 1983 P&M release coming in September. It is just Prince playing piano and singing the words "Mama, Mama...drawn out, and then he sings "why the butterflies". Another lyric is "Mama...what's this strange shaking? Mama, what's this...? Mama, why the butterflies?". He's singing it like he's a small child asking his Mother what is wrong. It's a heart wrenching song. I think it's his story/expression of what and how he was feeling during those episodes.

purplerabbithole said:

Help me out with the lyrics to "Why the butterflies."

violetcrush said:

Penny - Sacrifice Of Victor lyric states "epileptic until the age of 7". He mentioned this during his interview with Tavis Smiley in 2009/2010 as well. He was old enough to remember. I think he is singing about it in the song "Mama/Why The Butterflies".

It's the unreleased piano track that will be included on the 1983 P&M release coming in September. It is just Prince playing piano and singing the words "Mama, Mama...drawn out, and then he sings "why the butterflies". Another lyric is "Mama...what's this strange shaking? Mama, what's this...? Mama, why the butterflies?". He's singing it like he's a small child asking his Mother what is wrong. It's a heart wrenching song. I think it's his story/expression of what and how he was feeling during those episodes.

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

Help me out with the lyrics to "Why the butterflies."

It's the unreleased piano track that will be included on the 1983 P&M release coming in September. It is just Prince playing piano and singing the words "Mama, Mama...drawn out, and then he sings "why the butterflies". Another lyric is "Mama...what's this strange shaking? Mama, what's this...? Mama, why the butterflies?". He's singing it like he's a small child asking his Mother what is wrong. It's a heart wrenching song. I think it's his story/expression of what and how he was feeling during those episodes.

Woops....didn't mean to post that twice!

I had heard the song before on youtube, but didn't understand so didn't know if i liked it...plus it was not of great sound quality. NOw, I really want to hear it again.

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

Help me out with the lyrics to "Why the butterflies."

It's the unreleased piano track that will be included on the 1983 P&M release coming in September. It is just Prince playing piano and singing the words "Mama, Mama...drawn out, and then he sings "why the butterflies". Another lyric is "Mama...what's this strange shaking? Mama, what's this...? Mama, why the butterflies?". He's singing it like he's a small child asking his Mother what is wrong. It's a heart wrenching song. I think it's his story/expression of what and how he was feeling during those episodes.