PennyPurple said:

disch said:

really? prince-like to publicly connect his name to a "weakness" and "failure" like addiction? Because he was so prone to speak openly about his personal struggles instead of hiding behind "privacy" (and demanding his associates do the same)?

-

Honestly I've never heard of one celeb who died of an OD (and there have been a few, even more recently) whose family did that. Probably because they don't want the person's name to be associated with drugs rather than with all the accomplishments of their career etc. Not agreeing with it, just being reality-based.

-

And in prince's case you have a fan base who is quick to lash out for any perceived transgressions by people close to Prince (see: this thread). Why would they put themselves on the line on a controversial topic like this when they know they would subject themselves to all manner of attacks?

Tom Petty's family did.

On the day he died he was informed his hip had graduated to a full on break and it is our feeling that the pain was simply unbearable and was the cause for his over use of medication.

We knew before the report was shared with us that he was prescribed various pain medications for a multitude of issues including Fentanyl patches and we feel confident that this was, as the coroner found, an unfortunate accident.

As a family we recognize this report may spark a further discussion on the opioid crisis and we feel that it is a healthy and necessary discussion and we hope in some way this report can save lives. Many people who overdose begin with a legitimate injury or simply do not understand the potency and deadly nature of these medications.

OMG!!!! Penny rocks the FACTS again....Be Warned All: don't mess with her

Did petty's family statement actually use the word "addiction" or similar? I'm not looking to argue or get "slapped" or all the things you guys are now taking such glee (what happened? you guys weren't always so laura-esque in your delight of "smacking down" and "telling off" fellow orgers; I used to enjoy and appreciate sharing ideas and info with both of you . But I digress.) I already mentioned that I think Petty's family situation was quite different, but again, I'm not looking for a fight.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

OMG!!!! Penny rocks the FACTS again....Be Warned All: don't mess with her

disch said:

Did petty's family statement actually use the word "addiction" or similar? I'm not looking to argue or get "slapped" or all the things you guys are now taking such glee (what happened? you guys weren't always so laura-esque in your delight of "smacking down" and "telling off" fellow orgers; I used to enjoy and appreciate sharing ideas and info with both of you . But I digress.) I already mentioned that I think Petty's family situation was quite different, but again, I'm not looking for a fight.

Actually, I don't think it did. It also didn't mention the fact that he took fake fentanyl either. I went back and found the letter, here it is.

I

disch said:

Did petty's family statement actually use the word "addiction" or similar? I'm not looking to argue or get "slapped" or all the things you guys are now taking such glee (what happened? you guys weren't always so laura-esque in your delight of "smacking down" and "telling off" fellow orgers; I used to enjoy and appreciate sharing ideas and info with both of you . But I digress.) I already mentioned that I think Petty's family situation was quite different, but again, I'm not looking for a fight.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

LR/PTSD...sorry

I guess the difference between Petty and Prince, is we knew about Petty's heavy drug use, where us fans didn't know about Princes, because we were led to believe he detested drug use.

I dont think Tom Petty's actual "autopsy" has been released.

I cant find it.

The family never explained why Tom had both legal and illegal fentanyl in his system.

No one has ever expressed outrage over who bought the illegal fentanyl for Tom.

I think Prince did detest drug usage. That's why it was such a secret. he was ashamed. Tom Petty admitted years ago that he strugged with heroin addiction. As a result, his life won't be defined by his drug usage. PRince's unfortunately might be. I don't blame the family for trying to keep it on the down low. Unfortunately, the mystery might make people talk about it even more. ITs a tough decision to make on their part...(address the white elephant in the room in the hopes that people will move on and listen to the music or ignore the white elephant and redirect to musical tributes). All I know is that more people seem to know about his death than his music these days. That jeopardy category for PRince should have been a nice reminder of his musical genius. They used the easiest possible questions and the millenial contestants still got most of the questions wrong. PRince is still a massviely underrated musician in many ways sadly. ANd this website is just as obsessed with his drug usage. THere are sooo many more posts on this subject than on his music right now. New fans who venture on this site aren't learning anything about his music right now. I am not blaming anyone though seeing as I am on this thread myself.

PennyPurple said:

I guess the difference between Petty and Prince, is we knew about Petty's heavy drug use, where us fans didn't know about Princes, because we were led to believe he detested drug use.

I keep coming back to: Why should we think Prince's family (i.e., a hodge-podge of half-siblings who barely had contact with him) would even know details about his drug use and history, let alone could offer great insight to the public? Petty's family (his wife of 15+ years and his kids) knew about his struggles because they actually lived with him.

-

Edited to add: Oh and I also miss the insights of others about his music. Hopeftull it'll pick up with the new releases in the coming months. Now, when it comes to the general public, I think the lack of knowledge of Prince's music has more to do with some choices he made in the last 20+ years of his career than to his cause of death, but that's another topic for another thread (which I think exists).

purplerabbithole said:

I think Prince did detest drug usage. That's why it was such a secret. he was ashamed. Tom Petty admitted years ago that he strugged with heroin addiction. As a result, his life won't be defined by his drug usage. PRince's unfortunately might be. I don't blame the family for trying to keep it on the down low. Unfortunately, the mystery might make people talk about it even more. ITs a tough decision to make on their part...(address the white elephant in the room in the hopes that people will move on and listen to the music or ignore the white elephant and redirect to musical tributes). All I know is that more people seem to know about his death than his music these days. That jeopardy category for PRince should have been a nice reminder of his musical genius. They used the easiest possible questions and the millenial contestants still got most of the questions wrong. PRince is still a massviely underrated musician in many ways sadly. ANd this website is just as obsessed with his drug usage. THere are sooo many more posts on this subject than on his music right now. New fans who venture on this site aren't learning anything about his music right now. I am not blaming anyone though seeing as I am on this thread myself.

PennyPurple said:

I guess the difference between Petty and Prince, is we knew about Petty's heavy drug use, where us fans didn't know about Princes, because we were led to believe he detested drug use.

[Edited 6/11/18 21:36pm]

disch said:

I keep coming back to: Why should we think Prince's family (i.e., a hodge-podge of half-siblings who barely had contact with him) would even know details about his drug use and history, let alone could offer great insight to the public? Petty's family (his wife of 15+ years and his kids) knew about his struggles because they actually lived with him.

purplerabbithole said:

I think Prince did detest drug usage. That's why it was such a secret. he was ashamed. Tom Petty admitted years ago that he strugged with heroin addiction. As a result, his life won't be defined by his drug usage. PRince's unfortunately might be. I don't blame the family for trying to keep it on the down low. Unfortunately, the mystery might make people talk about it even more. ITs a tough decision to make on their part...(address the white elephant in the room in the hopes that people will move on and listen to the music or ignore the white elephant and redirect to musical tributes). All I know is that more people seem to know about his death than his music these days. That jeopardy category for PRince should have been a nice reminder of his musical genius. They used the easiest possible questions and the millenial contestants still got most of the questions wrong. PRince is still a massviely underrated musician in many ways sadly. ANd this website is just as obsessed with his drug usage. THere are sooo many more posts on this subject than on his music right now. New fans who venture on this site aren't learning anything about his music right now. I am not blaming anyone though seeing as I am on this thread myself.

I agree disch and you have a good point, it was just something that came to mind, seeing how everyone is now putting out the suicide hotline number and pleading for people to get help.

PennyPurple said:

disch said:

I keep coming back to: Why should we think Prince's family (i.e., a hodge-podge of half-siblings who barely had contact with him) would even know details about his drug use and history, let alone could offer great insight to the public? Petty's family (his wife of 15+ years and his kids) knew about his struggles because they actually lived with him.

I agree disch and you have a good point, it was just something that came to mind, seeing how everyone is now putting out the suicide hotline number and pleading for people to get help.

it's interesting to think about the disconnect between addiction and depression...both are life threatening and require medical and psychological intervention and therapies...but only one of these diseases is considered shameful and its sufferers demonized.

I think this thread and others like it are heavily travelled because we sense that important information is missing re: Prince. I feel as though I have been reading a two-year-long Agatha Christie novel.

I don't feel the need to " investigate" the deaths of Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Tom Petty, Janis Joplin, Kurt Kobain, Elvis etc.,but I very much feel the curtain is closed with Prince and there are truths that are being witheld. OK, we know he was severely addicted to opiates and...

Until we feel comfortable with more knowledge of who Prince really was, the emphasis will be placed on "digging" and arguing and the music will take a back seat IMHO. BTW, I don't see arguing in a negative light (though some of us could take a softer stance). We fans have not been given much help from the family or inner circle, so we do the best we can. I have learned quite a bit from y'all but it is pain-staking and time-consuming.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

I agree disch and you have a good point, it was just something that came to mind, seeing how everyone is now putting out the suicide hotline number and pleading for people to get help.

it's interesting to think about the disconnect between addiction and depression...both are life threatening and require medical and psychological intervention and therapies...but only one of these diseases is considered shameful and its sufferers demonized.

Well yes and no. They both have stigma's attached to them, all though the depression/suicide stigma has come a long way for the better. The drug stigma has a long way to go. People think it only involves the junkies on the street, and it doesn't. Now days most people who are on the pain pills get addicted thru no fault of their own, because they honestly need it for pain. People don't see the pain side of it, as in Prince's case.

You have to remember when Oxycontin first came on the market and they were marketing it heavily, it was a miracle drug and helped plenty of people. Big Pharma lied to us all and said if it was being used for pain, it wasn't addicting. They were so wrong. Now that they created this drug crisis people in severe pain have a hard time getting help. Oxycontin helped, until it didn't, they also failed to tell us that.

peggyon said:

I think this thread and others like it are heavily travelled because we sense that important information is missing re: Prince. I feel as though I have been reading a two-year-long Agatha Christie novel.

I don't feel the need to " investigate" the deaths of Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Tom Petty, Janis Joplin, Kurt Kobain, Elvis etc.,but I very much feel the curtain is closed with Prince and there are truths that are being witheld. OK, we know he was severely addicted to opiates and...

Until we feel comfortable with more knowledge of who Prince really was, the emphasis will be placed on "digging" and arguing and the music will take a back seat IMHO. BTW, I don't see arguing in a negative light (though some of us could take a softer stance). We fans have not been given much help from the family or inner circle, so we do the best we can. I have learned quite a bit from y'all but it is pain-staking and time-consuming.

I too think the silence out of Prince's camp is getting to us all.

PennyPurple said:

PennyPurple said:

peggyon said:

I think this thread and others like it are heavily travelled because we sense that important information is missing re: Prince. I feel as though I have been reading a two-year-long Agatha Christie novel.

I don't feel the need to " investigate" the deaths of Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Tom Petty, Janis Joplin, Kurt Kobain, Elvis etc.,but I very much feel the curtain is closed with Prince and there are truths that are being witheld. OK, we know he was severely addicted to opiates and...

Until we feel comfortable with more knowledge of who Prince really was, the emphasis will be placed on "digging" and arguing and the music will take a back seat IMHO. BTW, I don't see arguing in a negative light (though some of us could take a softer stance). We fans have not been given much help from the family or inner circle, so we do the best we can. I have learned quite a bit from y'all but it is pain-staking and time-consuming.

I too think the silence out of Prince's camp is getting to us all.

something and/or someone's going to break that log jam...hold the thought that it's soon.

purplerabbithole said:

I think Prince did detest drug usage. That's why it was such a secret. he was ashamed. Tom Petty admitted years ago that he strugged with heroin addiction. As a result, his life won't be defined by his drug usage. PRince's unfortunately might be. I don't blame the family for trying to keep it on the down low. Unfortunately, the mystery might make people talk about it even more. ITs a tough decision to make on their part...(address the white elephant in the room in the hopes that people will move on and listen to the music or ignore the white elephant and redirect to musical tributes). All I know is that more people seem to know about his death than his music these days. That jeopardy category for PRince should have been a nice reminder of his musical genius. They used the easiest possible questions and the millenial contestants still got most of the questions wrong. PRince is still a massviely underrated musician in many ways sadly. ANd this website is just as obsessed with his drug usage. THere are sooo many more posts on this subject than on his music right now. New fans who venture on this site aren't learning anything about his music right now. I am not blaming anyone though seeing as I am on this thread myself.

PennyPurple said:

I guess the difference between Petty and Prince, is we knew about Petty's heavy drug use, where us fans didn't know about Princes, because we were led to believe he detested drug use.

Prince's cousin Chaz actually spoke on it in a earlier interview. Saying this should be an example to teach people to seek help instead of hiding it.

To Whom It May Concern:

I'm NOT going to SHO anywhere!

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Prince's cousin Chaz actually spoke on it in a earlier interview. Saying this should be an example to teach people to seek help instead of hiding it.

To Whom It May Concern:

I'm NOT going to SHO anywhere!

Chazz is a little cray cray, but it is good that he said that.

endiadj said:

What more do you need to know to understand who Prince really was? What info are you looking for from the family to be able to deal with his death? I feel some have a narrative and unless info comes out that fits that narrative, those people will never be satisfied. Prince had a public and private life, like everyone else. He had deep dark secrets and personal struggles, like everyone else. He chose not to share his with the world. Now that he's gone, those hidden personal struggles that he was either embarrassed by, didn't feel was anyone else's business, didn't want to burden others with, have come to light, unfortunately. Some are choosing to reduce him down to nothing but a drug addict. Some are revisiting his history through this drug induced prism. He must have been on drugs when he did this or that. It's sad this info gets released and becomes fodder for media, fans, gp to pick someone, after death, apart like this. It's what we do, unfortunately. It's Prince's fault ultimately, though. He fell into the trap. And, here we all are picking apart his carcass... RIP Prince, if you can...😢

[Edited 6/12/18 9:29am]

rednblue said:

endiadj said:

What more do you need to know to understand who Prince really was? What info are you looking for from the family to be able to deal with his death? I feel some have a narrative and unless info comes out that fits that narrative, those people will never be satisfied. Prince had a public and private life, like everyone else. He had deep dark secrets and personal struggles, like everyone else. He chose not to share his with the world. Now that he's gone, those hidden personal struggles that he was either embarrassed by, didn't feel was anyone else's business, didn't want to burden others with, have come to light, unfortunately. Some are choosing to reduce him down to nothing but a drug addict. Some are revisiting his history through this drug induced prism. He must have been on drugs when he did this or that. It's sad this info gets released and becomes fodder for media, fans, gp to pick someone, after death, apart like this. It's what we do, unfortunately. It's Prince's fault ultimately, though. He fell into the trap. And, here we all are picking apart his carcass... RIP Prince, if you can...😢

Great question. I think there's a closely related issue, that for me at least, breaks the heart. It's no individual's fault. I think this issue increases suffering and death.

Here's the thing with stigma. Looking at the leading causes of death, personal choices do feed in to some extent. Diet and exercise, for example, have unquestionable roles to play. With addiction, any person who ever had a glass of wine or other drink took a gamble. So that, right there, is a LOT of us. The partiers, e.g. the folks who enacted the stereotype of frat party oblivion, weren't necessarily the ones who ended up with a medical condition. There are many factors determining who ends up suffering a condition.

Personal choices feed into outcome, along with environmental factors (which are sometimes out of a person's control), and also genetic predispositions that we bring into this world.

While many (especially as age advances) develop multiple medical conditions, stigmatized conditions often bring on greatly increased inquiries/investment into presence of other conditions. If a person has a death related to complications of diabetes or heart disease, how much drive is there to know, for example, whether or not addiction or cancer was also present? Conditions can surely affect one another, and there will always be people who have worked in the health field, or take a special interest in areas of medicine for other reasons. It just seems that the demand/longing for information about possible other conditions varies greatly by the medical condition most directly connected with a person's death.

Also present with stigmatized medical conditions is a tendency to shame the sufferers, or divide sufferers into, e.g., the "good" addicted and the "bad" addicted. Those who shall be shamed and those who should not. I'm not saying personal responsibility isn't a real thing. It is. But the truth is in individual stories, and the vast majority of individuals aren't evil dictators. They are complicated, with flaws and excellence and compassion inside. Prince's great complexity, mixed with the heart, honesty and excellence of his music, draws many of us to him.

We have (for the most part) the intelligence, maturity and goodness in us to not react this way when it comes to cancer or heart disease. It's not like we think in terms of and ask which of two categories a person with a heart-disease connected death fell into. We're mature and intelligent enough to know that it doesn't boil down to simply A) people were super sedentary and ate 100 doughnuts a day or B) people who were strongly genetically predisposed to a severely compromised heart. We don't ask if this person falls into the not-to-be-shamed vs. the to-be-shamed category. We think of an individual, a person with his/her own unique story, and we offer our compassion to that person, friends and family.

I think stigma contributed to how Prince and others behave(d), and the choices they made/make, surrounding his suffering from addiction to pills. I think stigma contributed to Prince's suffering and death. That will always break my heart.

[Edited 6/12/18 8:56am]

Probably should add this to the subject of an addiction-related death investigation. To state the obvious, things (be it food, drink, drugs, etc.) ingested is also a subject with mind-boggling, and sometimes surprising, complexity. Substances can offer both benefit and risk within a single individual. Also, risks/benefits of substances vary from person to person. Not at all to say that there aren't substances to be avoided at all costs, as well as substances that it would be near impossible to ingest enough of to present a risk. It's just that it can be complicated, sometimes surprisingly so.

Also, importantly, nobody wants to see a person tortured by pain and suffering.

I've gone on way too long with these posts. These links explore one area of complexity.

Quote from first article:

"The study represents a resurgence in research at Johns Hopkins, New York University and other academic institutions looking at whether mind-altering psychedelics, such as LSD, mushrooms and ecstasy can be effective in treating a variety of emotional and addictive disorders.

Gordon McGlothlin took part in a Johns Hopkins program to use psychedelics to help him stop smoking. He is pictured near one of his pieces of art he created. Its part of a resurgence in the use of the drug to help treat a variety of disorders.

(Lloyd Fox / Baltimore Sun)

Scientists have discovered that psychedelic drugs have the potential to relieve clinical depression, anxiety in cancer patients, depression in hospice patients, post-traumatic stress disorder and obsessive-compulsive disorder."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-psychedielics-come-back-20160809-story.html

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/05/15/611225541/reluctant-psychonaut-michael-pollan-embraces-the-new-science-of-psychedelics

Quote from article below: "...these drugs can’t be patented, since they’re existing, well-known substances. So a drug company wouldn’t be able to claim all the financial rewards if it funded a large, expensive study that found big benefits to psilocybin-assisted therapy."

https://www.vox.com/2016/6/27/11544250/psychedelic-drugs-lsd-psilocybin-effects

[Edited 6/12/18 10:33am]

[Edited 6/12/18 15:06pm]

endiadj said:

peggyon said:

I think this thread and others like it are heavily travelled because we sense that important information is missing re: Prince. I feel as though I have been reading a two-year-long Agatha Christie novel.

I don't feel the need to " investigate" the deaths of Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison, Tom Petty, Janis Joplin, Kurt Kobain, Elvis etc.,but I very much feel the curtain is closed with Prince and there are truths that are being witheld. OK, we know he was severely addicted to opiates and...

Until we feel comfortable with more knowledge of who Prince really was, the emphasis will be placed on "digging" and arguing and the music will take a back seat IMHO. BTW, I don't see arguing in a negative light (though some of us could take a softer stance). We fans have not been given much help from the family or inner circle, so we do the best we can. I have learned quite a bit from y'all but it is pain-staking and time-consuming.

ya, and they beat on us like a pinata in the process.

RJP1205 said:

endiadj said:

What more do you need to know to understand who Prince really was? What info are you looking for from the family to be able to deal with his death? I feel some have a narrative and unless info comes out that fits that narrative, those people will never be satisfied. Prince had a public and private life, like everyone else. He had deep dark secrets and personal struggles, like everyone else. He chose not to share his with the world. Now that he's gone, those hidden personal struggles that he was either embarrassed by, didn't feel was anyone else's business, didn't want to burden others with, have come to light, unfortunately. Some are choosing to reduce him down to nothing but a drug addict. Some are revisiting his history through this drug induced prism. He must have been on drugs when he did this or that. It's sad this info gets released and becomes fodder for media, fans, gp to pick someone, after death, apart like this. It's what we do, unfortunately. It's Prince's fault ultimately, though. He fell into the trap. And, here we all are picking apart his carcass... RIP Prince, if you can...😢

Now I feel guilty. 😔

Well, I play P music for a big part of my day. Been sharing it with others as much as I can. Also been sharing with people how P's music, generosity, sense of fun, etc., have enriched so many lives.

Another thing you can do is make efforts to counteract stigma. Things in this situation would be different if deaths connected to stigmatized conditions such as addiction were treated with as little hysteria, and as much respect and compassion for the struggle, as attends deaths attributed to complications from conditions such as heart disease, Alzheimers, diabetes, cancer, etc.

[Edited 6/12/18 13:18pm]

endiadj said:

What more do you need to know to understand who Prince really was? What info are you looking for from the family to be able to deal with his death? I feel some have a narrative and unless info comes out that fits that narrative, those people will never be satisfied. Prince had a public and private life, like everyone else. He had deep dark secrets and personal struggles, like everyone else. He chose not to share his with the world. Now that he's gone, those hidden personal struggles that he was either embarrassed by, didn't feel was anyone else's business, didn't want to burden others with, have come to light, unfortunately. Some are choosing to reduce him down to nothing but a drug addict. Some are revisiting his history through this drug induced prism. He must have been on drugs when he did this or that. It's sad this info gets released and becomes fodder for media, fans, gp to pick someone, after death, apart like this. It's what we do, unfortunately. It's Prince's fault ultimately, though. He fell into the trap. And, here we all are picking apart his carcass... RIP Prince, if you can...😢

this should be sent to critics, ex's, and orgers who dont follow rules

luvsexy4all said:

endiadj said:

What more do you need to know to understand who Prince really was? What info are you looking for from the family to be able to deal with his death? I feel some have a narrative and unless info comes out that fits that narrative, those people will never be satisfied. Prince had a public and private life, like everyone else. He had deep dark secrets and personal struggles, like everyone else. He chose not to share his with the world. Now that he's gone, those hidden personal struggles that he was either embarrassed by, didn't feel was anyone else's business, didn't want to burden others with, have come to light, unfortunately. Some are choosing to reduce him down to nothing but a drug addict. Some are revisiting his history through this drug induced prism. He must have been on drugs when he did this or that. It's sad this info gets released and becomes fodder for media, fans, gp to pick someone, after death, apart like this. It's what we do, unfortunately. It's Prince's fault ultimately, though. He fell into the trap. And, here we all are picking apart his carcass... RIP Prince, if you can...😢

this should be sent to critics, ex's, and orgers who dont follow rules

ya, and tell them they'll beat you like a double bass drum if they don't agree with you too.

rednblue said:

PeteSilas said:

luvsexy4all said:

this should be sent to critics, ex's, and orgers who dont follow rules

ya, and tell them they'll beat you like a double bass drum if they don't agree with you too.

seriuosly ..i put it on facebook

RJP1205 said:

rednblue said:

Well, I play P music for a big part of my day. Been sharing it with others as much as I can. Also been sharing with people how P's music, generosity, sense of fun, etc., have enriched so many lives.

Another thing you can do is make efforts to counteract stigma. Things in this situation would be different if deaths connected to stigmatized conditions such as addiction were treated with as little hysteria, and as much respect and compassion for the struggle, as attends deaths attributed to complications from conditions such as heart disease, Alzheimers, diabetes, cancer, etc.

[Edited 6/12/18 13:18pm]

I sing the praises of Prince anytime music is a topic...I make sure my son knows P didn't just sing...he wrote, played the instruments, worked hard, etc. Have also had many conversations with him about the dangers of taking anything into his body that is not food or drink (he's only 10). Opioids are killing so many young people in our area...the obits are horrible! And I work at the Dept. Of Social Services and the kids orphaned by these dying parents is a real crisis. But I said I felt guilty because I've followed this thread for so long and I thought what would P do if this was his idol who OD'd? Probably not disect all the info to death. He would love them for all the good they did and let the rest go.

I'd just been reflecting that I should watch putting things in a way that comes off hoity-toity. Thank you for your thoughts and patience!

RE: "...love them for all the good they did and let the rest go."

I don't think the addiction-related death is any lack of good in and of itself. Same goes for struggles with heart disease, Alzheimers, diabetes, cancer, etc.

That said, was thinking after writing earlier comment, that some wish to speak only about an artist's art. Some speak of other things in the artist's biography. If we do speak of other things, while I strongly believe it's best to emphasize strengths, I don't think we should portray someone as perfect. People are human, and getting back to love...unconditional love is about loving someone for their heart, their brilliance, their warts, and all in between. Also, if there is a narrative that there are a bunch of perfect people out there, it promotes shame and insecurity for everyone, including (and maybe even especially for) the portrayed-as-perfect people themselves.

Also, speaking of warts, I'm nosy about people's stories. They fascinate me. I'm also interested in biology and psychology. I definitely spend an inordinate amount of time on threads related to my interest areas. As other examples, I love to learn about dance, but have little interest in competitive sports. Beyond that, my own silly notion is that emphasizing competition often brings people more harm than good. But in no way do I see that as translating into P and competitive sports, or P and battle of the bands threads, are bad to participate in. The people on them are discussing real life. Anyway, P absolutely loved sports as well as dance, and the relative time I spend on dance vs. sports threads isn't going to represent P well. I'm guilty as charged re: spending disproportionate amount of time on certain topics.

On the subject of sons, I feel you. I, too, am constantly cautioning my son about things. I want him to have a good head on his shoulders. My guy is 12. Here's to the next generation of Prince fans!

[Edited 6/12/18 14:37pm]

I know someone who to look at Frank Zappa, watch the videos, hear his music thought he must be on drugs!? But in actual fact he stayed well away from them. So assumptions can always be wrong.

[Edited 6/12/18 14:42pm]