To each their own. I’m just not going to spend my life boiling with anger over some interview or whatever. I’m not going to make my prince fandom be about rage and fury directed at people he chose to work with at various points in his career. We fans tend to go a little overboard about every social media post, every interview etc.
-
If we decide that our goal is to make his former colleagues lives miserable (that somehow that will make us happier) then all these people will just shut up
And never say a word about him again. And he will be forgetten even faster.
-
Again do what feels right for you. But don’t demand that every fan follow your lead.
-

PennyPurple said:

purplerabbithole said:

How did she sound in that investigator's interview? Could you determine a mood or sense of her emotions?

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I was VERY upset with her at the time for saying that and was going to confront her about it at an event. But a close friend talked me out of it. Now that I think about it's starting to make more since now. Since listening to her interview earlier this year with the investigators. After her constant fabricating stories to the press. She did finally reveal in a recent interview. That her and Prince had a BIG fight and she believes he pushed her away on purpose. So she wouldn't figure out what was really going on with him. This whole thing is really VERY tragic

Yes, he began reaching out again to some of his past associates and friends from 2014 onward. He knew he was not doing well. He hadn't spoken to Susannah in several years due to the conflict with The Family/FDeluxe reunion; however, she stated in her recent interview that 2 weeks prior to his emergency landing in Molene he sent her lyrics, via his Engineer, and he wanted to write/record with her again. I think that is very telling. Many stories like this. Heck, even Madonna, his nemesis of sorts througout the years, reconnected with him when he invited her to one of the concerts at PP. I think he was mending fences and saying his goodbyes

I really hope no one believed that crap We all know how Elvis died tho.

PeteSilas said:

i'm pretty pessimistic myself but I think a lot of people are saying what she's saying. It's actually one of the things i did not want to see AGAIN in regards to one of my heroes. That is, the fans bickering over who did what, why they did it, etc.., that is definitely one of the things i hate worst. It's a sad fact of human nature that just about everyone around these guys turns on them at some point. Joe Esposito, "Elvis' best friend" tried to say he found a suicide letter by Elvis when he died. I I can try to hope it was just dementia on Joe's part but it's most likely a ploy to get more attention. It's dissapointing because there really isn't any logical way that Elvis would write a suicide note unless he knew beforehand that he would have a heart attack while he was taking a shit. Im sure he'd kill himself in a more dignified manner if he was doing it out of choice.

and as for Laura, one of the more fucked up things I said to her but it was meant to be funny was "send me a pic so I can see if you look normal" laura was alright though, like i say, she was cool with me.

fortuneandserendipity said:

[Edited 6/10/18 10:33am]

PennyPurple said:

disch said:

I think if people don’t want to see an associates show or buy a book or whatever that’s fine. But to demand that everyone boycott this on some principle? I don’t really get that. Last year I saw the revolution live. It was a fun show and a nice way for prince fans to come together and enjoy his music. I don’t who it benefits for fans to demand these people never perform prince and the revolution songs again and only perform unrelated music. How does this improve the lives of fans who enjoy seeing them perform? The only people in the audience were prince fans; it’s not like they’re trying to trick an audience of newbies. - If our policy at fans is to reject or lash out at anyone who ever collaborated with prince, who will share the stories and experiences that help us know more about him? It’ll all just die off. PennyPurple said:

Disch, what they are doing is telling the stories and changing the narrative to suit their purpose, and Prince is no longer here to correct the stories.

If they would tell us the truth, it would be 1 thing, but to change the narrative is another.

The Melvoins have said they introduced him to Jazz....are you kidding me? If it wasn't for us, Prince would be nothing.

^That is just an example of what is happening, there are much, much more examples, from ALL of the ASSociates. You can't believe 80% of what they say.

For the love of Pete.....the Melvoins NEVER said he had not heard Jazz music before he met them. Obviously, his Dad was a Jazz pianist. Their words are ALWAYS misinterpreted or taken out of context. What they have said is that they introduced him to certain Jazz and Classical composers and players - like Bill Evans, Mahler, etc...whom he had not listened to before. PRINCE himself acknowledged this during his sweet story about meeting Lisa and Wendy during his first Atlanta P&M show. Lisa has also talked about how she would play classical pieces for Prince and his Dad when she was living at Prince's house back in 1980-81.

well said and i can say i won't either, still it's hard to reconcile the "love" someone like Kim Berry had when she's selling stolen socks. those things do tend to irk me, like i said though, i've seen it all before with my heroes, people turn my stomach. The worst that comes to mind was one of my favorite boxers, Hector "Macho" Camacho, he used to wear a trademark gold chain around his neck, that said "macho" after he died, not long after, his own momma took it to a hock shop. Hopefully, she was desperately broke because if it was greed then that just breaks my heart.

disch said:

To each their own. I’m just not going to spend my life boiling with anger over some interview or whatever. I’m not going to make my prince fandom be about rage and fury directed at people he chose to work with at various points in his career. We fans tend to go a little overboard about every social media post, every interview etc. - If we decide that our goal is to make his former colleagues lives miserable (that somehow that will make us happier) then all these people will just shut up And never say a word about him again. And he will be forgetten even faster. - Again do what feels right for you. But don’t demand that every fan follow your lead. - PennyPurple said:

Disch, what they are doing is telling the stories and changing the narrative to suit their purpose, and Prince is no longer here to correct the stories.

If they would tell us the truth, it would be 1 thing, but to change the narrative is another.

The Melvoins have said they introduced him to Jazz....are you kidding me? If it wasn't for us, Prince would be nothing.

^That is just an example of what is happening, there are much, much more examples, from ALL of the ASSociates. You can't believe 80% of what they say.

PeteSilas said:

i'm pretty pessimistic myself but I think a lot of people are saying what she's saying. It's actually one of the things i did not want to see AGAIN in regards to one of my heroes. That is, the fans bickering over who did what, why they did it, etc.., that is definitely one of the things i hate worst. It's a sad fact of human nature that just about everyone around these guys turns on them at some point. Joe Esposito, "Elvis' best friend" tried to say he found a suicide letter by Elvis when he died. I I can try to hope it was just dementia on Joe's part but it's most likely a ploy to get more attention. It's dissapointing because there really isn't any logical way that Elvis would write a suicide note unless he knew beforehand that he would have a heart attack while he was taking a shit. Im sure he'd kill himself in a more dignified manner if he was doing it out of choice.

and as for Laura, one of the more fucked up things I said to her but it was meant to be funny was "send me a pic so I can see if you look normal" laura was alright though, like i say, she was cool with me.

fortuneandserendipity said:

[Edited 6/10/18 10:33am]

Did she send you a pic though? I can imagine she's a bit cross-eyed. I'm not going to say she looks like a harpy. I'm not going to say that.

disch said:

To each their own. I’m just not going to spend my life boiling with anger over some interview or whatever. I’m not going to make my prince fandom be about rage and fury directed at people he chose to work with at various points in his career. We fans tend to go a little overboard about every social media post, every interview etc. - If we decide that our goal is to make his former colleagues lives miserable (that somehow that will make us happier) then all these people will just shut up And never say a word about him again. And he will be forgetten even faster. - Again do what feels right for you. But don’t demand that every fan follow your lead.

Then support away...I for 1 will not.

rednblue said:

herb4 said:

Disagree there. He seemed quite interested in money and, if not "power", certainly "control"

Herb4 -- Don't have time to write much, but I tend to wholeheartedly agree with your posts. Thank you for all of your posts!

You will probably be skeptical, but I think the issue here is partly semantics....

I never even met P, but I think he was complex. The vast majority of humans are highly flawed and also have a great deal of good in them. P was human. His associates were human.

Thanks.

Understatement of the year right there though in bold. Prince was one of the most complex individuals I can think to cite relating to the public circle. Hard to come up with other names actually. (Might make for a cool thread....hmmm).

Maybe Howard Hughes, Elon Musk, Salvador Dali...Donald Trump...I dunno. Prince is singularly unique to my mind and incredibly complex, which is a big part of what always drew me to him. Drawing blanks for comparisons though. As far as the music world goes, maybe Zappa comes close in terms of sheer "What-the-fuckedness?" I can think of people like Lady Gaga. Madonna and Marilyn Manson but much of their schtick seems calculated...

Prince was human, though he seemed other worldly and somehow above it all.

I see an awful lot of projection going on in these threads, especially as it relates to hero worship and idolization, which I think is where certain posters lose the thread and the narrative surrounding his death in ways that make it somehow personal to them. I can understand that tendency, but I don't think it's right and it seems to lead to several real die hard fans sort of starting with the conclusion first and extrapolating backwards from there, adjusting the facts to accomodate their vision, if that makes sense; cherry picking facts to suit a pre-determined narrative and fit their personal connection to the things from which they drew inspiration from an heroic artist in thier lives, Prince.

Otherwise, for whatever reason, they feel betrayed and determine that someone must be lying.

That also explains why so many members here shit on Prince's wives, his girlfriends, his family members and his friends in general. Or how certain fans positively LOATHE drug usage so they determine FIRST that someone they like as much as Prince would never use, ergo, something must be "fishy" about his death. Look at the borderline freak out level from some regarding the supposed discovery of freaky sex tapes or porn. Is that really so odd? Jesus Christ, my Father and his wife died within 6 months of each other and I found all sorts of shit. God help me if I die tomorrow or, more to the point, god help the person that has to sort through my shit.

Anything like that seems perfectly normal to me. The facts seem rather clear to me and always have. It'd be like finding out your Dad or married uncle had a secret gay porn stash or your son who committed suicide was a cross dresser who used coke. Most folks tend to have a public face and a private one, usually involving many masks. Some are made of lace, make up and gold chains strung from a hat. Some are built on lies. They're not all EVIL or bad. Most of them aren't. Some are. Like the priest that hides behind his collar and the power of his church to molest kids or the politicians who hide their donors to pass terrible legislation and start wars for profit.

People have more secrets than they let on and Prince didn't let on much so the idea that he may have a lot of them hardly shocks me.

Sorry for the *rant* but, lastly, and others have touched on it: It's important to remember that Prince had an INCREIBLY difficult childhood and hardly any safety net. People raised in these circumstances always invent ways to protect themselves, find ways to feel better, heal, often suffer with trust and are susceptible to extremes to the point that they are considerd "weird". By and large, I think Prince healed himself through music and his search for the one true faith. He was an idealist and, along with his work ethic, that took him very far. If one is to subscribe to the idea that "it's all there in his music", then what to make of songs like "Papa" and "Sister"? "Pheremone?"

He may have been abused.

During the ONA tour and The Rainbow Children, when he became more dogmatic and sometimes even divisive, it struck me that he was trying to convince HIMSELF of something, not us, using his friend, Larry Graham, as a vessel. I realized he had lost both of his parents, his son and his wife within a fairly short window of time. Speaking from experience, I can tell you that this makes people vulnerable and sort of "dig in" and "double down" with whatever got them through life to that point and brought them to the party in the first place - be it drug use, drinking, religion, exercise, writing...work...music...God. They increase it.

Painkillers.

He always kept working. I think he had to. For himself. That never wavered. He certainly didn't die in vain.

PeteSilas said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Yeah I'm pretty sure long term opioid use would be ruinous to someone's overall health, if in fact we're talking decades use. That said, some people have taken prescription opiates for that long and seem ok. Also all drugs are mildly toxic to the liver, but so is eating too much fat or sugar. I'm just not sure heroin and the like is that hard on the liver. Acetaminophen/paracetamol/tylenol definitely is though.

everyone is different, my sister had a totally ruined liver from drinking and then she contracted hiv/aids which somehow made it harder for her liver to handle the drinking, her liver finally stopped working at all.

Sorry about your sister, Pete.

The "somehow" in this equation I would think has to do with the deterioration of the immune system. From my understand, HIV/AIDs make everything in your body work shittier.

disch said:

To each their own. I’m just not going to spend my life boiling with anger over some interview or whatever. I’m not going to make my prince fandom be about rage and fury directed at people he chose to work with at various points in his career. We fans tend to go a little overboard about every social media post, every interview etc. - If we decide that our goal is to make his former colleagues lives miserable (that somehow that will make us happier) then all these people will just shut up And never say a word about him again. And he will be forgetten even faster. - Again do what feels right for you. But don’t demand that every fan follow your lead. - PennyPurple said:

Disch, what they are doing is telling the stories and changing the narrative to suit their purpose, and Prince is no longer here to correct the stories.

If they would tell us the truth, it would be 1 thing, but to change the narrative is another.

The Melvoins have said they introduced him to Jazz....are you kidding me? If it wasn't for us, Prince would be nothing.

^That is just an example of what is happening, there are much, much more examples, from ALL of the ASSociates. You can't believe 80% of what they say.

Disch - right on with your opinion here. There was a reason Prince worked and spent time with all of these associates - many whom he stayed connected with off and on throughout his career. Many of them - like The Revolution - are keeping his music and memory alive by touring and playing the songs. They are not profiting from these shows.

of course not. i felt bad for saying that but my mouth gets away from me alot.

fortuneandserendipity said:

PeteSilas said:

i'm pretty pessimistic myself but I think a lot of people are saying what she's saying. It's actually one of the things i did not want to see AGAIN in regards to one of my heroes. That is, the fans bickering over who did what, why they did it, etc.., that is definitely one of the things i hate worst. It's a sad fact of human nature that just about everyone around these guys turns on them at some point. Joe Esposito, "Elvis' best friend" tried to say he found a suicide letter by Elvis when he died. I I can try to hope it was just dementia on Joe's part but it's most likely a ploy to get more attention. It's dissapointing because there really isn't any logical way that Elvis would write a suicide note unless he knew beforehand that he would have a heart attack while he was taking a shit. Im sure he'd kill himself in a more dignified manner if he was doing it out of choice.

and as for Laura, one of the more fucked up things I said to her but it was meant to be funny was "send me a pic so I can see if you look normal" laura was alright though, like i say, she was cool with me.

[Edited 6/10/18 10:33am]

Did she send you a pic though? I can imagine she's a bit cross-eyed. I'm not going to say she looks like a harpy. I'm not going to say that.

herb4 said:

PeteSilas said:

everyone is different, my sister had a totally ruined liver from drinking and then she contracted hiv/aids which somehow made it harder for her liver to handle the drinking, her liver finally stopped working at all.

Sorry about your sister, Pete.

The "somehow" in this equation I would think has to do with the deterioration of the immune system. From my understand, HIV/AIDs make everything in your body work shittier.

ya, that's exactly how they found out she was HIV positive in the first place, they couldn't figure out why her liver wasn't recovering, she drank but they thought it wasn't to the degree, (she was young too) that her liver should be failing.

disch said:

To each their own. I’m just not going to spend my life boiling with anger over some interview or whatever. I’m not going to make my prince fandom be about rage and fury directed at people he chose to work with at various points in his career. We fans tend to go a little overboard about every social media post, every interview etc. - If we decide that our goal is to make his former colleagues lives miserable (that somehow that will make us happier) then all these people will just shut up And never say a word about him again. .

*HIGH FIVE*

Yeah...it's odd reading people here chastise, second guess and otherwise take giant shits on people that Prince himself decided to be friends with and entrust (Mayte, Larry, Kirk). Maybe some of them are horrible people. I don't know. But my issue is that ANY of them knew Prince better Prince better than ANY of US and some of this "they should do X", "I would have done Y" and "no one should do Z" in the wake of his death is sort of...creepy, for lack of a better word, coupled with the absolute certainty from some posters that his friends, lovers and family members are, indeed, assholes.

None of us knows shit about his relationships and a lot of what I read posted here is rather shameful and worthy of the tabloids that so many decry.

Yeah it weirds me out a little when fans talk as if they have better access to “the truth” about prince than people he closely associated with. I think every associate has a particular perspective and I can appreciate that perspective for what it contributes to the whole picture. Do associates tend to recall things in ways that cast themselves in a mostly positive light? Sure we all do that when recollecting our pasts. I’m not going to lash out at someone for that.
-
I also don’t think the only two options are actively hating someone or “supporting “ them. Not every action by a fan had to be about picking a “team.” I listen to some podcasts or read some interviews because I think they might provide me with new info. I go to certain live shows because I think I’ll be entertained. If these things won’t provide those benefits to me, I tend to skip them. But it’s not because I hate the person involved.
-
As i said before I became a prince fan because his music added something positive to my life. His death alone has been a negative enough thing to deal with. Im not going to add even more negativity by succumbing to hatred and anger at people he worked with, in many cases decades ago. He himself never said a bad word publicly about these people.
-

herb4 said:

[Edited 6/10/18 11:58am]

herb4 said:

disch said:

To each their own. I’m just not going to spend my life boiling with anger over some interview or whatever. I’m not going to make my prince fandom be about rage and fury directed at people he chose to work with at various points in his career. We fans tend to go a little overboard about every social media post, every interview etc. - If we decide that our goal is to make his former colleagues lives miserable (that somehow that will make us happier) then all these people will just shut up And never say a word about him again. .

*HIGH FIVE*

Yeah...it's odd reading people here chastise, second guess and otherwise take giant shits on people that Prince himself decided to be friends with and entrust (Mayte, Larry, Kirk). Maybe some of them are horrible people. I don't know. But my issue is that ANY of them knew Prince better Prince better than ANY of US and some of this "they should do X", "I would have done Y" and "no one should do Z" in the wake of his death is sort of...creepy, for lack of a better word, coupled with the absolute certainty from some posters that his friends, lovers and family members are, indeed, assholes.

None of us knows shit about his relationships and a lot of what I read posted here is rather shameful and worthy of the tabloids that so many decry.

Right. The need for many fans to victimize Prince with regard to his relationships with associates, friends, girlfriends, etc. is just a waste of time and energy. As most agree, to say that he was a complex person would be an understatement. I would venture to guess that he was the culprit more than the victim of relationship conflicts as a result of those complexities.

violetcrush said:

Disch - right on with your opinion here. There was a reason Prince worked and spent time with all of these associates - many whom he stayed connected with off and on throughout his career. Many of them - like The Revolution - are keeping his music and memory alive by touring and playing the songs. They are not profiting from these shows.

Stop fooling yourself, do you think they are doing it for free?

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

Disch - right on with your opinion here. There was a reason Prince worked and spent time with all of these associates - many whom he stayed connected with off and on throughout his career. Many of them - like The Revolution - are keeping his music and memory alive by touring and playing the songs. They are not profiting from these shows.

Stop fooling yourself, do you think they are doing it for free?

Of course not - but I have no doubt that their overhead costs vs. what they are being paid by the venues is most likely a "break even" situation. Wendy has stated this in interviews. They are playing only a small number of shows at small clubs.

Laura has a point.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Menes said:

Um, as it happens this just in from er falsebook...

laura

Could be hate or jelousy. Listen to idiots like Wendy, Mark Brown and Tony M. They really think they are the shit. What if a knob like KJ or any of those dingbats started to think they should be in the drivers seat and they should be rolling in the big dollars. Old KJ is making a living as a musician for the first time in years and appears to have a solid job with Comerica. Life is good when your best friend who fired you 20 times is no longer around.

Now I have a fairly pessimistic view of human nature, but that right there is astounding. I really wonder how people with that negativity get out of bed in the morning. So I don't think she's doing well. But Pete maybe you can counsel her

PennyPurple said:

Laura has a point.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Oh, right, because as it turns out she has been a close personal friend and confidant of Prince throughout his career, with whom he shared his most intimate feelings? Woops, nevermind - that's actually the pipedream that is floating around in this (most likely) unstable fan's head

Yeah I don’t care if they made money or not (I doubt it was a whole lot for the show I saw — and people do have expenses they need to cover).
-
The more important thing for he is: when I saw the revolution play, did I get MY money’s worth for the ticket price? I feel like I did. I got $50 (or whatever it was — I can’t remende) worth of entertainment. What difference does it matter to me what their cut was (as long as no one was being scammed or whatever)?

violetcrush said:

[Edited 6/10/18 12:55pm]

herb4 said:

I'm not sure who your post was directed at but I am fully aware that people have public/private faces. I will admit I am embarrassed that I thought the Prince I dreamed of was just that...and image...those are just my feelings.

disch said:

Yeah I don’t care if they made money or not (I doubt it was a whole lot for the show I saw — and people do have expenses they need to cover). - The more important thing for he is: when I saw the revolution play, did I get MY money’s worth for the ticket price? I feel like I did. I got $50 (or whatever it was — I can’t remende) worth of entertainment. What difference does it matter to me what their cut was (as long as no one was being scammed or whatever)? violetcrush said:

Of course not - but I have no doubt that their overhead costs vs. what they are being paid by the venues is most likely a "break even" situation. Wendy has stated this in interviews. They are playing only a small number of shows at small clubs.

[Edited 6/10/18 12:55pm]

Disch - no way they are making money off of these shows. Glad you enjoyed it, and felt it was worth the ticket price. I'm going to try to get to the show when it comes to my town this Fall.

*

I'm still, and will always be quite bummed that Prince never reunited with the band just one more time - would have been great at the 20 or 25 year mark, and it would have been huge

Oh I agree. Any profit they made was nominal. My point was just that my measure of the show was how much enjoyment it gave me, not now much money the revolution members did (or rather, didn’t) net.
-
I don’t think the time I spent singing and dancing with prince fans to prince songs performed live would’ve been better spent by me sitting at home seething or writing nasty comments about these associates on message boards or social media.


violet

crush said:

[Edited 6/10/18 13:21pm]

violetcrush said:

PennyPurple said:

Laura has a point.

Oh, right, because as it turns out she has been a close personal friend and confidant of Prince throughout his career, with whom he shared his most intimate feelings? Woops, nevermind - that's actually the pipedream that is floating around in this (most likely) unstable fan's head

You don't have to be a friend or a confidant to see what they are doing. Open your eyes, and if you insist on keeping them closed, and blindley supporting them, go ahead, that's on you.

disch said:

Oh I agree. Any profit they made was nominal. My point was just that my measure of the show was how much enjoyment it gave me, not now much money the revolution members did (or rather, didn’t) net. - I don’t think the time I spent singing and dancing with prince fans to prince songs performed live would’ve been better spent by me sitting at home seething or writing nasty comments about these associates on message boards or social media.

I’m comfused — are you agreeing with this sentiment? I was saying I saw the revolution live and enjoyed the show and felt it was time/money well spent.

PennyPurple said:

Herb4-Some of your insights took my breath away...projection and idealization, I feel, may be the root of many of our "fixed" positions/opinions and subequent skirmishes. (on this thread in particular.)

I, too, was drawn to his complexity, depth and intensity...an old soul.

I would agree as well that there may be secrets that emerge over time.

Regarding the associates; I think interest will begin to slow and they will likely fade away in the next year or so.

disch said:

I’m comfused — are you agreeing with this sentiment? I was saying I saw the revolution live and enjoyed the show and felt it was time/money well spent. PennyPurple said:

I guess she's either misunderstood your response, or attempting a sarcastic clap?? Hard to tell....

disch said:

I’m comfused — are you agreeing with this sentiment? I was saying I saw the revolution live and enjoyed the show and felt it was time/money well spent. PennyPurple said:

Nope not agreeing with any part of your statement. The clap was sarcastic.

I meant idolization of Prince, not idealization