herb4 said:

rednblue said:

Thanks for all of your thoughts, Pete! As for money and power, Prince seemed to do some painful wrestling with these issues as well. NOT that he was power or money hungry. Just that he'd experienced poverty and abuse. It seems these experiences always stay with a person.

P sure did have some great songs that could remind himself, and all of us, that power and money are not keys to happiness. The music is such a gift, in countless ways. Every day brings me many reminders.

Disagree there. He seemed quite interested in money and, if not "power", certainly "control"

Herb4 -- Don't have time to write much, but I tend to wholeheartedly agree with your posts. Thank you for all of your posts!

You will probably be skeptical, but I think the issue here is partly semantics. I'm often not that great at stating things. Not that anyone wants to hear more from me, but I'd write more that might help make sense of my semantics claim if I had time.

I never even met P, but I think he was complex. The vast majority of humans are highly flawed and also have a great deal of good in them. P was human. His associates were human.

herb4 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

It's amazing just how super-clairvoyant Dr D has proven to be with his 'predictions' of Prince's fentanyl and hydromorphone use. But lemme guess, the will keep pushing any theory that distracts from the truth. Including bogus theories such as...

Shots fired at Paisley Park, heard on April 21. Actually they were FILM shots - as in 'ready to shoot' - going back years

deniers/naysayers

Pancreatic cancer

Leukaemia

Murdered by Judith Hill (or someone at Warners with a grudge)

AIDS

Death by seizure, and surprisingly never given correct medication

Death by carrier pigeon (ok i'm making this one up BUT THOSE DODGY PILLS had to have reached him somehow)

All of which amounts to JACK. SHIT.

And yet most everyone is not prepared to even contemplate the veracity of DR D's account of his drug use (which even i was hugely sceptical about on first reading).

What about liver damage? I'm willing to entertain that possibility and he had several of the symptoms. It's a well known side of effect from long term opiod usage too.

Me too, herb4.

Feeling fortuneandseredipity's aggravation. Some things that have been put forward are simply outrageous. Desperation to distract from a big struggle with addiction makes it so frustratingly difficult to try to have any talk in terms of complex situations. Complex situations tend to be the truth of life.

herb4 said:

Not for nothing, but people who say "why didn't someone HELP him?" and "why was he left ALONE?"..."I would have done THIS...x, y, z."

Can flip right off.

Two things real quick:

- Prince did what Prince wanted. It was part of what made him Prince. And his subordinates did what they were told or else they were out.

- "Helping" an addict (or even, say, someone who is bipolar or depressed) is tremendously difficult and, most times, impossible. I speak from experience. Not saying Prince had a mental illness but addiction is a disease of the mind. No one, and I mean NO ONE, can "cure" or even really "help" an addict unless that person wants the help.

Lastly, Jesus Christ, some of the junk I read posted here about his ex wives and girlfriends is ghoulish, jealous and weird. None of you fucking knw the nature of thier relationship or the amount of mutual ove that went into it. Get over your damned selves.

Thank You!

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

I am praying the video that I am in with Prince isnt released.

Yes, Prince was boss and I do realize how difficult it would be to broach the subject of drugs...especially in more forceful and direct ways. I imagine some tried to tiptoe around the subject or approach it more delicately to no avail or to denials. Those who were in his face about it probably would dismissed. All that being said..being a SUBORDINATE (or whatever) does not justify all behaviors... IF an employee was told to pick up black market pills for Prince, and he went ahead and did it..then he/she is still breaking the law. There is no excuse for that. IF a boss said," get me drugs or you are out of here", a person with half a conscience would say "Then, I am not of here>".. "I was just following orders" is never a good enough excuse for immoral behavior. It didn't work for NAZI's in Nuremburg; it doesn't work for direct drug enablers/facilitators.

herb4 said:

Not for nothing, but people who say "why didn't someone HELP him?" and "why was he left ALONE?"..."I would have done THIS...x, y, z."

Can flip right off.

Two things real quick:

- Prince did what Prince wanted. It was part of what made him Prince. And his subordinates did what they were told or else they were out.

- "Helping" an addict (or even, say, someone who is bipolar or depressed) is tremendously difficult and, most times, impossible. I speak from experience. Not saying Prince had a mental illness but addiction is a disease of the mind. No one, and I mean NO ONE, can "cure" or even really "help" an addict unless that person wants the help.

Lastly, Jesus Christ, some of the junk I read posted here about his ex wives and girlfriends is ghoulish, jealous and weird. None of you fucking knw the nature of thier relationship or the amount of mutual ove that went into it. Get over your damned selves.

purplerabbithole said:

Yes, Prince was boss and I do realize how difficult it would be to broach the subject of drugs...especially in more forceful and direct ways. I imagine some tried to tiptoe around the subject or approach it more delicately to no avail or to denials. Those who were in his face about it probably would dismissed. All that being said..being a SUBORDINATE (or whatever) does not justify all behaviors... IF an employee was told to pick up black market pills for Prince, and he went ahead and did it..then he/she is still breaking the law. There is no excuse for that. IF a boss said," get me drugs or you are out of here", a person with half a conscience would say "Then, I am not of here>".. "I was just following orders" is never a good enough excuse for immoral behavior. It didn't work for NAZI's in Nuremburg; it doesn't work for direct drug enablers/facilitators.

herb4 said:

Not for nothing, but people who say "why didn't someone HELP him?" and "why was he left ALONE?"..."I would have done THIS...x, y, z."

Can flip right off.

Two things real quick:

- Prince did what Prince wanted. It was part of what made him Prince. And his subordinates did what they were told or else they were out.

- "Helping" an addict (or even, say, someone who is bipolar or depressed) is tremendously difficult and, most times, impossible. I speak from experience. Not saying Prince had a mental illness but addiction is a disease of the mind. No one, and I mean NO ONE, can "cure" or even really "help" an addict unless that person wants the help.

Lastly, Jesus Christ, some of the junk I read posted here about his ex wives and girlfriends is ghoulish, jealous and weird. None of you fucking knw the nature of thier relationship or the amount of mutual ove that went into it. Get over your damned selves.

herb4 is correct in his thinking. So many out there want, or feel the need to judge those in Prince's "inner circle" prior to, and at the time of his death. However, these people were not there, and not living in that situation with him. It's very easy to judge as a complete outsider and stranger to the situation. Prince was so guarded and adamant about his privacy that he had his lawyers constantly threatening legal action toward former associates who discussed their time with him during interviews. He took great pains to remain private, and kept that wall up with everyone around him.

It still doesn't excuse ALL employee behavior. As for suing, it didn't stop contributors from talking about him in several books before he died. Would he only sue over drugs? Could he sue anonymous folks??

violetcrush said:

purplerabbithole said:

Yes, Prince was boss and I do realize how difficult it would be to broach the subject of drugs...especially in more forceful and direct ways. I imagine some tried to tiptoe around the subject or approach it more delicately to no avail or to denials. Those who were in his face about it probably would dismissed. All that being said..being a SUBORDINATE (or whatever) does not justify all behaviors... IF an employee was told to pick up black market pills for Prince, and he went ahead and did it..then he/she is still breaking the law. There is no excuse for that. IF a boss said," get me drugs or you are out of here", a person with half a conscience would say "Then, I am not of here>".. "I was just following orders" is never a good enough excuse for immoral behavior. It didn't work for NAZI's in Nuremburg; it doesn't work for direct drug enablers/facilitators.

herb4 is correct in his thinking. So many out there want, or feel the need to judge those in Prince's "inner circle" prior to, and at the time of his death. However, these people were not there, and not living in that situation with him. It's very easy to judge as a complete outsider and stranger to the situation. Prince was so guarded and adamant about his privacy that he had his lawyers constantly threatening legal action toward former associates who discussed their time with him during interviews. He took great pains to remain private, and kept that wall up with everyone around him.

violetcrush said:

herb4 is correct in his thinking. So many out there want, or feel the need to judge those in Prince's "inner circle" prior to, and at the time of his death. However, these people were not there, and not living in that situation with him. It's very easy to judge as a complete outsider and stranger to the situation. Prince was so guarded and adamant about his privacy that he had his lawyers constantly threatening legal action toward former associates who discussed their time with him during interviews. He took great pains to remain private, and kept that wall up with everyone around him.

They don't get a free pass anymore. It's time fans put their foot down with these ASSociates. I will no longer support ANY of them.

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

herb4 is correct in his thinking. So many out there want, or feel the need to judge those in Prince's "inner circle" prior to, and at the time of his death. However, these people were not there, and not living in that situation with him. It's very easy to judge as a complete outsider and stranger to the situation. Prince was so guarded and adamant about his privacy that he had his lawyers constantly threatening legal action toward former associates who discussed their time with him during interviews. He took great pains to remain private, and kept that wall up with everyone around him.

They don't get a free pass anymore. It's time fans put their foot down with these ASSociates. I will no longer support ANY of them.

co-sign...re-read Camilas' words...she speaks the truth

I’m not necessarily on board with the idea that any person who worked with/dated prince at any time in his life should be called to the carpet for his death. I’ve seen comments that people like Andre Cymone or the revolution members should be interrogated about what they did to enable or prevent his death in 2016. I personally think this is a little unfair. A lot of these people, by all accounts, had little to no contact with prince in his last years and the contact they did have was very controlled.
-
I think it’s fine if people don’t want to support the professional endeavors of anyone who ever collaborated with prince, but I don’t think it’s fair to assume they were accomplices in his death unless they can somehow offer proof that they weren’t. It makes me uneasy when I see how some of these people are being attacked in social media, for example.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

I agree. I think the reality is somewhere in the complicated grey area. I do think some folks in their own way tried to help or were concerned with his well-being but felt their hands were tied. I believe some folks couldn't care less. I believe some were in denial and some just thought if they stayed away and didn't enable, he'd eventually get his shit together because Prince didn't seem like the type to die. I believe some folks faciliated. Who is who is the question. I do believe (maybe naively) that very few folks were directly facilitating his drug usage (but those few people should not be given a free pass just because they were employees).

[Edited 6/10/18 8:44am]

purplerabbithole said:

I agree. I think the reality is somewhere in the complicated grey area. I do think some folks in their own way tried to help or were concerned with his well-being but felt their hands were tied. I believe some folks couldn't care less. I believe some were in denial and some just thought if they stayed away and didn't enable, he'd eventually get his shit together because Prince didn't seem like the type to die. I believe some folks faciliated. Who is who is the question. I do believe (maybe naively) that very few folks were directly facilitating his drug usage (but those few people should not be given a free pass just because they were employees).

[Edited 6/10/18 8:44am]

Miss Sheila E. confronted him. Then later announced that she would no longer work with him.

purplerabbithole said:

I agree. I think the reality is somewhere in the complicated grey area. I do think some folks in their own way tried to help or were concerned with his well-being but felt their hands were tied. I believe some folks couldn't care less. I believe some were in denial and some just thought if they stayed away and didn't enable, he'd eventually get his shit together because Prince didn't seem like the type to die. I believe some folks faciliated. Who is who is the question. I do believe (maybe naively) that very few folks were directly facilitating his drug usage.

Right. There were very few people who had direct access to Prince - especially in the last couple years of his life. Even those who had been very close to him and had kept in touch with him off and on throughout the years could not speak directly to him. They could only speak to Engineers or those working for him. I do think many of the past associates/friends/girlfriends etc. knew there was an issue; however, their knowledge of its severity probably did not come until the emergency stop in Molene. At that point, many of them were trying to get to him, but were not successful.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

purplerabbithole said:

I agree. I think the reality is somewhere in the complicated grey area. I do think some folks in their own way tried to help or were concerned with his well-being but felt their hands were tied. I believe some folks couldn't care less. I believe some were in denial and some just thought if they stayed away and didn't enable, he'd eventually get his shit together because Prince didn't seem like the type to die. I believe some folks faciliated. Who is who is the question. I do believe (maybe naively) that very few folks were directly facilitating his drug usage (but those few people should not be given a free pass just because they were employees).

[Edited 6/10/18 8:44am]

Miss Sheila E. confronted him. Then later announced that she would no longer work with him.

Could her decision not to work with him have been based upon how he responded to her when she confronted him about the situation? Just a thought. You can only say or do so much to try to help someone, and as herb4 mentioned earlier, that person has to be willing to listen and accept the help.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Miss Sheila E. confronted him. Then later announced that she would no longer work with him.

Yeah sure. And you know this...how?

She would no longer work with him, but she would sell herself riding on the purple $$ train. Purple Cruises, symbol merchandise, etc. etc. etc. Prince this, Prince that. After he died, she even thought she was Queen of PP.

I don't know what to think about her. Her original statement about that breakup was his snubbing her dad in favor of Larry Graham for the tour. Later, she told cops it was because he was acting loopy and like he was on something, and they had a major argument. Maybe that was revisionist thinking on her part--his weird behavior and the argument with her was starting to make more sense after his death than it did at the time??? Part of me thinks that the snubbing meant more to her at the time than the drugs. But then again, she seemed excited in 2014 when he contacted her again...so maybe she thought in 2014 that P was doing better (where drugs were concerned) and she had let her anger dissipate.

violetcrush said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Miss Sheila E. confronted him. Then later announced that she would no longer work with him.

Could her decision not to work with him have been based upon how he responded to her when she confronted him about the situation? Just a thought. You can only say or do so much to try to help someone, and as herb4 mentioned earlier, that person has to be willing to listen and accept the help.

disch said:

I’m not necessarily on board with the idea that any person who worked with/dated prince at any time in his life should be called to the carpet for his death. I’ve seen comments that people like Andre Cymone or the revolution members should be interrogated about what they did to enable or prevent his death in 2016. I personally think this is a little unfair. A lot of these people, by all accounts, had little to no contact with prince in his last years and the contact they did have was very controlled. - I think it’s fine if people don’t want to support the professional endeavors of anyone who ever collaborated with prince, but I don’t think it’s fair to assume they were accomplices in his death unless they can somehow offer proof that they weren’t. It makes me uneasy when I see how some of these people are being attacked in social media, for example. Bodhitheblackdog said:

If P's fans are so outraged, they need to stop supporting these ASSociates and stop attending the shows or buying merch. If they don't make those purple $$ they will move on and make a living on their own merits.

She talked to him between the 2011 breakup and his death. She posted about them talking in a post in 2014. I remember seeing it.

PennyPurple said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Miss Sheila E. confronted him. Then later announced that she would no longer work with him.

Yeah sure. And you know this...how?

She would no longer work with him, but she would sell herself riding on the purple $$ train. Purple Cruises, symbol merchandise, etc. etc. etc. Prince this, Prince that. After he died, she even thought she was Queen of PP.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PennyPurple said:

They don't get a free pass anymore. It's time fans put their foot down with these ASSociates. I will no longer support ANY of them.

co-sign...re-read Camilas' words...she speaks the truth

They. All. Knew. <<Read that again, folks<<

They are lying.

purplerabbithole said:

She talked to him between the 2011 breakup and his death. She posted about them talking in a post in 2014. I remember seeing it.

PennyPurple said:

Yeah sure. And you know this...how?

She would no longer work with him, but she would sell herself riding on the purple $$ train. Purple Cruises, symbol merchandise, etc. etc. etc. Prince this, Prince that. After he died, she even thought she was Queen of PP.

That doesn't mean she confronted him about anything.

What was it she said when she showed up at PP after he died?...There's more to the story? .... Bull Shit.

violetcrush said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Miss Sheila E. confronted him. Then later announced that she would no longer work with him.

Could her decision not to work with him have been based upon how he responded to her when she confronted him about the situation? Just a thought. You can only say or do so much to try to help someone, and as herb4 mentioned earlier, that person has to be willing to listen and accept the help.

I was VERY upset with her at the time for saying that and was going to confront her about it at an event. But a close friend talked me out of it. Now that I think about it's starting to make more since now. Since reading her interview earlier this year with the investigators. After her constant fabricating stories to the press. She did finally reveal in a recent interview. That her and Prince had a BIG fight and she believes he pushed her away on purpose. So she wouldn't figure out what was really going on with him. This whole thing is really VERY tragic

[Edited 6/10/18 10:20am]

I think if people don’t want to see an associates show or buy a book or whatever that’s fine. But to demand that everyone boycott this on some principle? I don’t really get that. Last year I saw the revolution live. It was a fun show and a nice way for prince fans to come together and enjoy his music. I don’t who it benefits for fans to demand these people never perform prince and the revolution songs again and only perform unrelated music. How does this improve the lives of fans who enjoy seeing them perform? The only people in the audience were prince fans; it’s not like they’re trying to trick an audience of newbies.
-
If our policy at fans is to reject or lash out at anyone who ever collaborated with prince, who will share the stories and experiences that help us know more about him? It’ll all just die off.

PennyPurple said:

How did she sound in that investigator's interview? Could you determine a mood or sense of her emotions?

ChocolateBox3121 said:

violetcrush said:

Could her decision not to work with him have been based upon how he responded to her when she confronted him about the situation? Just a thought. You can only say or do so much to try to help someone, and as herb4 mentioned earlier, that person has to be willing to listen and accept the help.

I was VERY upset with her at the time for saying that and was going to confront her about it at an event. But a close friend talked me out of it. Now that I think about it's starting to make more since now. Since listening to her interview earlier this year with the investigators. After her constant fabricating stories to the press. She did finally reveal in a recent interview. That her and Prince had a BIG fight and she believes he pushed her away on purpose. So she wouldn't figure out what was really going on with him. This whole thing is really VERY tragic

disch said:

I think if people don’t want to see an associates show or buy a book or whatever that’s fine. But to demand that everyone boycott this on some principle? I don’t really get that. Last year I saw the revolution live. It was a fun show and a nice way for prince fans to come together and enjoy his music. I don’t who it benefits for fans to demand these people never perform prince and the revolution songs again and only perform unrelated music. How does this improve the lives of fans who enjoy seeing them perform? The only people in the audience were prince fans; it’s not like they’re trying to trick an audience of newbies. - If our policy at fans is to reject or lash out at anyone who ever collaborated with prince, who will share the stories and experiences that help us know more about him? It’ll all just die off. PennyPurple said:

If P's fans are so outraged, they need to stop supporting these ASSociates and stop attending the shows or buying merch. If they don't make those purple $$ they will move on and make a living on their own merits.

Disch, what they are doing is telling the stories and changing the narrative to suit their purpose, and Prince is no longer here to correct the stories.

If they would tell us the truth, it would be 1 thing, but to change the narrative is another.

The Melvoins have said they introduced him to Jazz....are you kidding me? If it wasn't for us, Prince would be nothing.

^That is just an example of what is happening, there are much, much more examples, from ALL of the ASSociates. You can't believe 80% of what they say.

Menes said:

PeteSilas said:

people have said those kinds of things when I mention how much Elvis gave away, as in "it didn't mean anything to him he had so much money" thing is, you don't have to give shit, people criticized Nicki Minaj for giving to some kind of educational fund and i thought it was ridiculous because you don't have to give shit. So, ya, Nicki might be a devil worshipping, sex peddling or whatever else but god bless her for that. People are always going to say something I tell you.

I have no idea what you were trying to convey as it relates to altruism... um , how is laura?

Um, as it happens this just in from er falsebook...

laura

Could be hate or jelousy. Listen to idiots like Wendy, Mark Brown and Tony M. They really think they are the shit. What if a knob like KJ or any of those dingbats started to think they should be in the drivers seat and they should be rolling in the big dollars. Old KJ is making a living as a musician for the first time in years and appears to have a solid job with Comerica. Life is good when your best friend who fired you 20 times is no longer around.

Now I have a fairly pessimistic view of human nature, but that right there is astounding. I really wonder how people with that negativity get out of bed in the morning. So I don't think she's doing well. But Pete maybe you can counsel her

purplerabbithole said:

She talked to him between the 2011 breakup and his death. She posted about them talking in a post in 2014. I remember seeing it.

PennyPurple said:

Yeah sure. And you know this...how?

She would no longer work with him, but she would sell herself riding on the purple $$ train. Purple Cruises, symbol merchandise, etc. etc. etc. Prince this, Prince that. After he died, she even thought she was Queen of PP.

was it confirmed that the pills were the reason she would no longer work with him? just asking, i never heard that confirmed.

herb4 said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

It's amazing just how super-clairvoyant Dr D has proven to be with his 'predictions' of Prince's fentanyl and hydromorphone use. But lemme guess, the deniers/naysayers will keep pushing any theory that distracts from the truth. Including bogus theories such as...

Shots fired at Paisley Park, heard on April 21. Actually they were FILM shots - as in 'ready to shoot' - going back years

Pancreatic cancer

Leukaemia

Murdered by Judith Hill (or someone at Warners with a grudge)

AIDS

Death by seizure, and surprisingly never given correct medication

Death by carrier pigeon (ok i'm making this one up BUT THOSE DODGY PILLS had to have reached him somehow)

All of which amounts to JACK. SHIT.

And yet most everyone is not prepared to even contemplate the veracity of DR D's account of his drug use (which even i was hugely sceptical about on first reading).

What about liver damage? I'm willing to entertain that possibility and he had several of the symptoms. It's a well known side of effect from long term opiod usage too.

Yeah I'm pretty sure long term opioid use would be ruinous to someone's overall health, if in fact we're talking decades use. That said, some people have taken prescription opiates for that long and seem ok. Also all drugs are mildly toxic to the liver, but so is eating too much fat or sugar. I'm just not sure heroin and the like is that hard on the liver. Acetaminophen/paracetamol/tylenol definitely is though.

purplerabbithole said:

How did she sound in that investigator's interview? Could you determine a mood or sense of her emotions?

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I was VERY upset with her at the time for saying that and was going to confront her about it at an event. But a close friend talked me out of it. Now that I think about it's starting to make more since now. Since listening to her interview earlier this year with the investigators. After her constant fabricating stories to the press. She did finally reveal in a recent interview. That her and Prince had a BIG fight and she believes he pushed her away on purpose. So she wouldn't figure out what was really going on with him. This whole thing is really VERY tragic

Sorry I meant read not listen.

[Edited 6/10/18 10:25am]

fortuneandserendipity said:

herb4 said:

What about liver damage? I'm willing to entertain that possibility and he had several of the symptoms. It's a well known side of effect from long term opiod usage too.

Yeah I'm pretty sure long term opioid use would be ruinous to someone's overall health, if in fact we're talking decades use. That said, some people have taken prescription opiates for that long and seem ok. Also all drugs are mildly toxic to the liver, but so is eating too much fat or sugar. I'm just not sure heroin and the like is that hard on the liver. Acetaminophen/paracetamol/tylenol definitely is though.

everyone is different, my sister had a totally ruined liver from drinking and then she contracted hiv/aids which somehow made it harder for her liver to handle the drinking, her liver finally stopped working at all.

i'm pretty pessimistic myself but I think a lot of people are saying what she's saying. It's actually one of the things i did not want to see AGAIN in regards to one of my heroes. That is, the fans bickering over who did what, why they did it, etc.., that is definitely one of the things i hate worst. It's a sad fact of human nature that just about everyone around these guys turns on them at some point. Joe Esposito, "Elvis' best friend" tried to say he found a suicide letter by Elvis when he died. I I can try to hope it was just dementia on Joe's part but it's most likely a ploy to get more attention. It's dissapointing because there really isn't any logical way that Elvis would write a suicide note unless he knew beforehand that he would have a heart attack while he was taking a shit. Im sure he'd kill himself in a more dignified manner if he was doing it out of choice.

and as for Laura, one of the more fucked up things I said to her but it was meant to be funny was "send me a pic so I can see if you look normal" laura was alright though, like i say, she was cool with me.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Menes said:

Um, as it happens this just in from er falsebook...

laura

Could be hate or jelousy. Listen to idiots like Wendy, Mark Brown and Tony M. They really think they are the shit. What if a knob like KJ or any of those dingbats started to think they should be in the drivers seat and they should be rolling in the big dollars. Old KJ is making a living as a musician for the first time in years and appears to have a solid job with Comerica. Life is good when your best friend who fired you 20 times is no longer around.

Now I have a fairly pessimistic view of human nature, but that right there is astounding. I really wonder how people with that negativity get out of bed in the morning. So I don't think she's doing well. But Pete maybe you can counsel her

[Edited 6/10/18 10:33am]