I'm not sure what you mean. Sounds like you feel you have some knowledge on this? I remember you discussing this issue before (trying to compute the exact amount of time that elapsed between when he swallowed the pill(s) and when he lost consciousness).

-

If you feel you have some solid conclusions and insight into his sequence of actions, you should share them.

Menes said:

disch said:

Unless I missed something, I don't know how the info in the documents could answer the questions about Prince's sequence of actions directly before he lost consciousness.

-

All we know is that he was found in the elevator, by people located on the ground floor. We don't know he was heading up or down when he got in (if he was in fact doing either), and what floor he entered on. We don't know where he was when he swallowed the pills (was he in the elevator? just outside it? someplace else?).

-

I don't know about the length of time it took him to lose consciousness after swallowing the pills, but it was probably pretty quick (I haven't researched how long it takes fentanyl to absorb from the stomach to the blood/brain. While we don't know how many pills he swallowed, the info we do have indicates that it's likely there was enough fentanyl in one counterfeit pill to kill him). But regardless, I don't think we have enough facts to deduce anything all that meaningful about the sequence.

You may not= means absolutely nothing to someone who may.

Menes said:

What??? People are just confused and trying to sort all this info out because for many it is shocking and mind boggling. That was a little insulting honestly.

Menes said:

kmama07 said:

Menes said: Agreed on state of PP. And as someone who grew up with a father who is a huge car enthusiast, I was shocked to see the condition and storage methods of the cars. No covers, dusty as hell...

If anyone believes that Prince went from being meticulous and immaculate to unorganized and not caring about the state of his personal abode, that would mean that either he was never really that person that was portrayed to us in public, or, something changed dramatically.


We never saw the man in what could be interpreted as an untidy fashion. Everything was planned out by the man himself. Far be it for him to not want his abode to be in pristine condition. That would not the fit image, no?

OTO, I have dated women that appeared to be goddesses, yet had a bathroom that was fit for a pig to wallow in. They were promptly dismissed without so much as a whisper.That is usually the room that tells you a lot about someone.

Hey Menes: my own personal bathroom is immaculate, smells good, has the rarest of lotions and potions, many, many fluffy, white towels, great art and fresh flowers and if you dim the lights just a little...it's Goddess time. Call me.

Krystalkisses said:

Menes said:

Penny, how many uppercuts are you going to deliver in one day? Your poor knuckles must be sore.

Someone got a quasi- laura beatdown! Clearly birds of a feather , flock together. We always tormented that poor soul with facts . Have we noticed that all to familiar pattern of someone spouting off what they "heard"/"believe" in an attempt to turn it into an investigative saga? Though the documents support nothing of the sort, they insist on presenting a failed narrative in order to curry favor with a very small sample of newbies who don't know the pattern.

What??? People are just confused and trying to sort all this info out because for many it is shocking and mind boggling. That was a little insulting honestly.

Was it?

Where were you when pancreatic cancer was being forced down our throats? Where were you when murder was being forced down our throats? Where were you when myloid leukemia was being forced down our throats? Where were you when we who knew it was addiction, were placed in a locked room with a sign hanging over our heads stating, "Princehaters"? Where were you Krsytal? Where were you to defend us? Where were you to defend us from the insults we endured for such a long time? They will get no safe quarters from me. Now you go sort it out and #Runteldat

[Edited 6/4/18 21:27pm]

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

If anyone believes that Prince went from being meticulous and immaculate to unorganized and not caring about the state of his personal abode, that would mean that either he was never really that person that was portrayed to us in public, or, something changed dramatically.


We never saw the man in what could be interpreted as an untidy fashion. Everything was planned out by the man himself. Far be it for him to not want his abode to be in pristine condition. That would not the fit image, no?

OTO, I have dated women that appeared to be goddesses, yet had a bathroom that was fit for a pig to wallow in. They were promptly dismissed without so much as a whisper.That is usually the room that tells you a lot about someone.

Hey Menes: my own personal bathroom is immaculate, smells good, has the rarest of lotions and potions, many, many fluffy, white towels, great art and fresh flowers and if you dim the lights just a little...it's Goddess time. Call me.

Now you're speaking my language.

Menes said:

Krystalkisses said:

Menes said: What??? People are just confused and trying to sort all this info out because for many it is shocking and mind boggling. That was a little insulting honestly.

Was it?

Where were you when pancreatic cancer was being forced down our throats? Where were you when murder was being forced down our throats? Where were you when myloid leukemia was being forced down our throats? Where were you when we who knew it was addiction, were placed in a locked room with a sign hanging over our heads stating, "Princehaters"? Where were you Krsytal? Where were you to defend us? Where were you to defend us from the insults we endured for such a long time? They will get no safe quarters from me. Now you go sort it out and #Runteldat

[Edited 6/4/18 21:27pm]

Oh Dear God, make Menes stop!!!!!!!! I'm gonna be dreaming about Mule Funk tonight...and it won't be pretty.

Menes said:

No need to be rude, I guess I am misunderstanding your point. I thought you were saying anyone who brings up anything else besides straight facts was committed to a particular narrative for their own agenda or reasons. I was just saying not everyone who does discuss alternative theories about what/why is emotionally invested in a particular outcome. I for one don't think anyone is a "Princehater" for thinking he was just an addict. I just want to understand where it all went wrong with him and why simply because he was my favorite artist and I care. Sorry you had to deal with some crazy Prince fanatics. It can be very unpleasant.

Krystalkisses said:

Menes said:

Was it?

Where were you when pancreatic cancer was being forced down our throats? Where were you when murder was being forced down our throats? Where were you when myloid leukemia was being forced down our throats? Where were you when we who knew it was addiction, were placed in a locked room with a sign hanging over our heads stating, "Princehaters"? Where were you Krsytal? Where were you to defend us? Where were you to defend us from the insults we endured for such a long time? They will get no safe quarters from me. Now you go sort it out and #Runteldat

[Edited 6/4/18 21:27pm]

No need to be rude, I guess I am misunderstanding your point. I thought you were saying anyone who brings up anything else besides straight facts was committed to a particular narrative for their own agenda or reasons. I was just saying not everyone who does discuss alternative theories about what/why is emotionally invested in a particular outcome. I for one don't think anyone is a "Princehater" for thinking he was just an addict. I just want to understand where it all went wrong with him and why simply because he was my favorite artist and I care. Sorry you had to deal with some crazy Prince fanatics. It can be very unpleasant.

True Dat!

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

Was it?

Where were you when pancreatic cancer was being forced down our throats? Where were you when murder was being forced down our throats? Where were you when myloid leukemia was being forced down our throats? Where were you when we who knew it was addiction, were placed in a locked room with a sign hanging over our heads stating, "Princehaters"? Where were you Krsytal? Where were you to defend us? Where were you to defend us from the insults we endured for such a long time? They will get no safe quarters from me. Now you go sort it out and #Runteldat

[Edited 6/4/18 21:27pm]

Oh Dear God, make Menes stop!!!!!!!! I'm gonna be dreaming about Mule Funk tonight...and it won't be pretty.

Lol. You're going to persuade me to crack open something.

Speaking of horses, "Now he's doing "horse", It's June... or was it April? Sign...

Mule has teamed with Julian over @ wikileaks to leak Prince's memoirs. His notable absence on the org is merely a precursor to his planned asylum release party. Whoa to them that await the illuminating manuscript as he was the foremost and leading investigator on the case.

Krystalkisses said:

Menes said:

Was it?

Where were you when pancreatic cancer was being forced down our throats? Where were you when murder was being forced down our throats? Where were you when myloid leukemia was being forced down our throats? Where were you when we who knew it was addiction, were placed in a locked room with a sign hanging over our heads stating, "Princehaters"? Where were you Krsytal? Where were you to defend us? Where were you to defend us from the insults we endured for such a long time? They will get no safe quarters from me. Now you go sort it out and #Runteldat

[Edited 6/4/18 21:27pm]

No need to be rude, I guess I am misunderstanding your point. I thought you were saying anyone who brings up anything else besides straight facts was committed to a particular narrative for their own agenda or reasons. I was just saying not everyone who does discuss alternative theories about what/why is emotionally invested in a particular outcome. I for one don't think anyone is a "Princehater" for thinking he was just an addict. I just want to understand where it all went wrong with him and why simply because he was my favorite artist and I care. Sorry you had to deal with some crazy Prince fanatics. It can be very unpleasant.

Sit back, relax, enjoy the program. We go thru this every single time a person who is new to the discussion attempts to defend the indefensible. As far as rude, or insulting, you're gonna have to toughen up around here. Every now and again you'll get a snip( I've been circumcised a few times) but things still function as a normal day on the org. Wanna see it? Take your licks and in no time , words like "rude" and "insulting" will be replaced with love and affection. There is joy in repetition.

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Oh Dear God, make Menes stop!!!!!!!! I'm gonna be dreaming about Mule Funk tonight...and it won't be pretty.

Lol. You're going to persuade me to crack open something.

Speaking of horses, "Now he's doing "horse", It's June... or was it April? Sign...

Mule has teamed with Julian over @ wikileaks to leak Prince's memoirs. His notable absence on the org is merely a precursor to his planned asylum release party. Whoa to them that await the illuminating manuscript as he was the foremost and leading investigator on the case.

there are numerous references to drug use and the effects of drugs in Prince lyrics going way back...a hiding-in-plain-sight statement from a man who often professed that everything you needed to know about him could be found in his lyrics...my LA (Prince's 'second home') friends, Prince fanatics all, all knew he was an addict and were shocked not at the death but that people persisted in their denial out of some sort of mis-placed loyalty to a man who never really was the anti-drug example he professed to be. I'll stop now, before the blowback begins...but, you know, no one here gets out alive and the truth...the truth is a beautiful thing with a dignity and grace of its own. It's nothing to be afraid of.

Menes said:

Krystalkisses said:

Menes said: No need to be rude, I guess I am misunderstanding your point. I thought you were saying anyone who brings up anything else besides straight facts was committed to a particular narrative for their own agenda or reasons. I was just saying not everyone who does discuss alternative theories about what/why is emotionally invested in a particular outcome. I for one don't think anyone is a "Princehater" for thinking he was just an addict. I just want to understand where it all went wrong with him and why simply because he was my favorite artist and I care. Sorry you had to deal with some crazy Prince fanatics. It can be very unpleasant.

Sit back, relax, enjoy the program. We go thru this every single time a person who is new to the discussion attempts to defend the indefensible. As far as rude, or insulting, you're gonna have to toughen up around here. Every now and again you'll get a snip( I've been circumcised a few times) but things still function as a normal day on the org. Wanna see it? Take your licks and in no time , words like "rude" and "insulting" will be replaced with love and affection. There is joy in repetition.

YES Menes, MUCH joy and love in repetition. Sweet Dreams.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

You don't need to tell krystalkisses how the org is because she's been here for years. And we all can have an Adult civil conversation without the snarky remarks and folks jumping on each other's throats

It's amazing just how super-clairvoyant Dr D has proven to be with his 'predictions' of Prince's fentanyl and hydromorphone use. But lemme guess, the deniers/naysayers will keep pushing any theory that distracts from the truth. Including bogus theories such as...

Shots fired at Paisley Park, heard on April 21. Actually they were FILM shots - as in 'ready to shoot' - going back years

Pancreatic cancer

Leukaemia

Murdered by Judith Hill (or someone at Warners with a grudge)

AIDS

Death by seizure, and surprisingly never given correct medication

Death by carrier pigeon (ok i'm making this one up BUT THOSE DODGY PILLS had to have reached him somehow)

All of which amounts to JACK. SHIT.

And yet most everyone is not prepared to even contemplate the veracity of DR D's account of his drug use (which even i was hugely sceptical about on first reading).

What is odd is how the pills were seperated. Fentanyl pills were seperate from ones that did not contain fentanyl. Even the pills found in the tissue had fentanyl in them. Does that indicate that Prince knew this?

As for PP and being unkept, I think at the end. there was just a lot of chaos and Prince was not focused as in the past and had people around who could not do what was required for maintaining PP. Kirk and Meron were over their head, and, to be honest, it appears Meron and Phaedra may have been embezzling. But, Prince appears not to be concerned. He could have asked why PP (his side) was not clean. I think his struggle was intense.

I also wonder, if the 1 thing he found comfort in, his music, no longer did. In the past, he turned to music/work almost as a form of therapy. I dont think there is really 1 thing that lead to this. I think it was numerous things over time, starting with abondement issues at an early age, fame, success, pain, emotional pain (loss of a child), divorce, aging, etc. Perhaps his addiction took over the comfort of music and work.

I do think at the end Prince was exhausted (5 hour energy drinks) from a lifetime of work, stress, and his addiction.

I often wonder about the 2nd divorce, what a storm. Prince fell for Mani and was "duped" by the religious aspect, Mani was "duped" by Prince by not being Prince the icon due to the pills. Did he feel abondement like in the past, no one can accept him as Prince Rogers Nelson? Make sense?

Sorry to ramble. Just thoughts that come up.

Menes said:

Oh, I knew where you were going with all that for sure! I also read the documents as soon as they came out and have gone back to them several times. I'm not disagreeing with you or Penny. Although I may be considered somewhat a "newbie" I've been following this just like everyone (along with getting more than one beat down by Laura. Haha). Anyhow, I guess the point in my previous response to you was I remember you bringing that up eons ago. Also, I don't think a lot of people who are bringing up some of the weird theories have actually gone through the documents. And if they have, they are still choosing to keep their blinders on.

fortuneandserendipity said:

It's amazing just how super-clairvoyant Dr D has proven to be with his 'predictions' of Prince's fentanyl and hydromorphone use. But lemme guess, the deniers/naysayers will keep pushing any theory that distracts from the truth. Including bogus theories such as...

Shots fired at Paisley Park, heard on April 21. Actually they were FILM shots - as in 'ready to shoot' - going back years

Pancreatic cancer

Leukaemia

Murdered by Judith Hill (or someone at Warners with a grudge)

AIDS

Death by seizure, and surprisingly never given correct medication

Death by carrier pigeon (ok i'm making this one up BUT THOSE DODGY PILLS had to have reached him somehow)

All of which amounts to JACK. SHIT.

And yet most everyone is not prepared to even contemplate the veracity of DR D's account of his drug use (which even i was hugely sceptical about on first reading).

when I first read it, as you mentioned, BEFORE the drugs he used and the one he died from were known...it rang true to me. He simply laid out what had been going down for decades, the impetus (stage fright/social anxiety) and boy...did the chips fall.

Strawberrylova123 said:

Thanks Strawberry,

nelcp777 said:

I never thought of that aspect before. It totally could have triggered his abandonment issues. I think he was very in love with Manuela.

We do not know what medical info was discovered during postmortem examination (external and internal). For example, were any diseases present? Were tissue samples taken? That is the missing piece. The medical examiner obviously discovered something in order to announce the information could not be publiclly released.

PennyPurple said:

For those who say we don't know what the medical records say because of HIPPA. Yes, we do.

Document

Pages

Text

Zoom

p. 67

p. 65

p. 66

«

Page 66 of 214

»

Toggle Description Prince Investigation Files

These are the investigations files released by the Carver County Sheriff's office on the overdose death of Prince.

Original Document (PDF) »

Contributed by: News Documents, The New York Times

Krystalkisses said:

nelcp777 said:

I often wonder about the 2nd divorce, what a storm. Prince fell for Mani and was "duped" by the religious aspect, Mani was "duped" by Prince by not being Prince the icon due to the pills. Did he feel abondement like in the past, no one can accept him as Prince Rogers Nelson? Make sense?

Sorry to ramble. Just thoughts that come up.

I never thought of that aspect before. It totally could have triggered his abandonment issues. I think he was very in love with Manuela.

I don't. Rebound from traumatic first marriage.

roxy831 said:

Krystalkisses said:

nelcp777 said: I never thought of that aspect before. It totally could have triggered his abandonment issues. I think he was very in love with Manuela.

I don't. Rebound from traumatic first marriage.

co-sign

bondno9 said:

We do not know what medical info was discovered during postmortem examination (external and internal). For example, were any diseases present? Were tissue samples taken? That is the missing piece. The medical examiner obviously discovered something in order to announce the information could not be publiclly released.

No, the full autopsy wasn't released to the public because that is MN law and won't be released to the public by MN for 30 years. They didn't have to 'find something' to keep it private.

roxy831 said:

I have heard others say this as well. What makes me doubt that was Mayte's book were it just seemed like he was passively aggressively trying to get Mayte to leave him. And how he was telling her stuff to wear her hair like Manuela's curly instead of straight, where he previously liked Mayte's hair straight. It just seemed like he was emotionally done with the marriage but didn't want the confrontation of ending it and Manuela was in his sights. Even though I'm sure he had other women during that time , as playthings, but he was evaluating Mani as his next wife. I only bring this up because I wonder if his 2nd divorce really accelerated his drug abuse. I do suspect it was a major factor in their divorce.

nelcp777 said:

What is odd is how the pills were seperated. Fentanyl pills were seperate from ones that did not contain fentanyl. Even the pills found in the tissue had fentanyl in them. Does that indicate that Prince knew this?

As for PP and being unkept, I think at the end. there was just a lot of chaos and Prince was not focused as in the past and had people around who could not do what was required for maintaining PP. Kirk and Meron were over their head, and, to be honest, it appears Meron and Phaedra may have been embezzling. But, Prince appears not to be concerned. He could have asked why PP (his side) was not clean. I think his struggle was intense.

I also wonder, if the 1 thing he found comfort in, his music, no longer did. In the past, he turned to music/work almost as a form of therapy. I dont think there is really 1 thing that lead to this. I think it was numerous things over time, starting with abondement issues at an early age, fame, success, pain, emotional pain (loss of a child), divorce, aging, etc. Perhaps his addiction took over the comfort of music and work.

I do think at the end Prince was exhausted (5 hour energy drinks) from a lifetime of work, stress, and his addiction.

I often wonder about the 2nd divorce, what a storm. Prince fell for Mani and was "duped" by the religious aspect, Mani was "duped" by Prince by not being Prince the icon due to the pills. Did he feel abondement like in the past, no one can accept him as Prince Rogers Nelson? Make sense?

Sorry to ramble. Just thoughts that come up.

Toward the end Prince stayed a lot in "The Green Room". Which is why all his favorite fragrances was lined up right next to him on his nightstand. One thing he made sure of is that he always smelled good.

Krystalkisses said:

💜

ChocolateBox3121 said:

nelcp777 said:

What is odd is how the pills were seperated. Fentanyl pills were seperate from ones that did not contain fentanyl. Even the pills found in the tissue had fentanyl in them. Does that indicate that Prince knew this?

As for PP and being unkept, I think at the end. there was just a lot of chaos and Prince was not focused as in the past and had people around who could not do what was required for maintaining PP. Kirk and Meron were over their head, and, to be honest, it appears Meron and Phaedra may have been embezzling. But, Prince appears not to be concerned. He could have asked why PP (his side) was not clean. I think his struggle was intense.

I also wonder, if the 1 thing he found comfort in, his music, no longer did. In the past, he turned to music/work almost as a form of therapy. I dont think there is really 1 thing that lead to this. I think it was numerous things over time, starting with abondement issues at an early age, fame, success, pain, emotional pain (loss of a child), divorce, aging, etc. Perhaps his addiction took over the comfort of music and work.

I do think at the end Prince was exhausted (5 hour energy drinks) from a lifetime of work, stress, and his addiction.

I often wonder about the 2nd divorce, what a storm. Prince fell for Mani and was "duped" by the religious aspect, Mani was "duped" by Prince by not being Prince the icon due to the pills. Did he feel abondement like in the past, no one can accept him as Prince Rogers Nelson? Make sense?

Sorry to ramble. Just thoughts that come up.

Toward the end Prince stayed a lot in "The Green Room". Which is why all his favorite fragrances was lined up right next to him on his nightstand. One thing he made sure of is that he always smelled good.

Would anyone mind to list them?

Krystalkisses said:

roxy831 said:

I don't. Rebound from traumatic first marriage.

I have heard others say this as well. What makes me doubt that was Mayte's book were it just seemed like he was passively aggressively trying to get Mayte to leave him. And how he was telling her stuff to wear her hair like Manuela's curly instead of straight, where he previously liked Mayte's hair straight. It just seemed like he was emotionally done with the marriage but didn't want the confrontation of ending it and Manuela was in his sights. Even though I'm sure he had other women during that time , as playthings, but he was evaluating Mani as his next wife. I only bring this up because I wonder if his 2nd divorce really accelerated his drug abuse. I do suspect it was a major factor in their divorce.

I feel what you're saying, Krystal, but I choose not to go there. Though P wrote "My Little Pill" for the soundtrack of a movie back in '92, I don't think he was too far from telling us the truth in that song.

roxy831 said:

Wow! I remember that song! It actually kinda confused me at the time. I remember how odd Prince is making a drug analogy. I for one now believe he has had a problem for decades.

Krystalkisses said:

roxy831 said:

I don't. Rebound from traumatic first marriage.

I have heard others say this as well. What makes me doubt that was Mayte's book were it just seemed like he was passively aggressively trying to get Mayte to leave him. And how he was telling her stuff to wear her hair like Manuela's curly instead of straight, where he previously liked Mayte's hair straight. It just seemed like he was emotionally done with the marriage but didn't want the confrontation of ending it and Manuela was in his sights. Even though I'm sure he had other women during that time , as playthings, but he was evaluating Mani as his next wife. I only bring this up because I wonder if his 2nd divorce really accelerated his drug abuse. I do suspect it was a major factor in their divorce.

Wasn't there a line in Rock & Roll Love Affair about marrying the second time (I'm paraphrasing) out of despair, with the Andy Allo supporters taking this song to mean he was head over heels for AA - that it was true and pure love? Any investigator interview her?