Menes said:

zenarose said:

PennyPurple said:

How I swoop down out of nowhere? I'm the one who mentioned the dirty toilet several pages back.

The police photos aren't staged. Did they stage the urine all over the toilet and floor? Did they stage all the dirt on the cars? Did they stage the dirt on the kitchen floor where the grout was supposed to be white, but is black?

In Ray Roberts statement to LE he stated: "I stayed late (4/20) to do extra cleaning in "Ray's" kitchen".

There was "Ray's kitchen and there was a kitchen deemed "Prince's kitchen". Neither were CLEAN in my opinion.

I would also like to add:

When looking at the photos you have to keep in mind that there are photos taken on 4/21 by CCSO. That is the most accurate photos of PP at the time of P's demise. It didn't appear to be in really bad disarray, just not deep cleaned by a housekeeper which was MB's job to oversee and insure was completed.

The Photos taken 5/10 and 5/11 were taken by the FEDS. When those photos were taken 19 days had passed and there was fairly heavy traffic through PP by then. Packing up and discarding of personal items, ect. You see the photos when each room was entered prior to their search ,during and after the search of each room with evidence being placed in the gray bags.

Some of the issues in this case are due to the fact that PP should have been secured until a thorough and complete investigation was conducted and that the case should not have been based on assumations or incomplete stattements from witnesses. The fact is that PP was turned over to "the family" before an investigation was completed. There inlies the issue. I have said this before, you CANNOT go back. Things were moved, trashed, possibly taken, planted, ect. by the time the FEDS obtained a search warrant. PP was no longer pristeen due to contamination. Either way you look at it that is a true and fair evaluation of the case.

Thanks for speaking THE TRUTH! So they can STOP painting Prince as a slob that didn't care anymore.

PennyPurple said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

PennyPurple said:

But it wasn't prescribed for his blood pressure, it was prescribed as a withdrawel med.

Yeah..and?? People who go through withdrawal symptoms have high blood pressure, clonidine is for high blood pressure

Yes, it is, but IT WASN'T GIVEN TO PRINCE FOR HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE. IT HAS MULTI-USES.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

zenarose said:

In Ray Roberts statement to LE he stated: "I stayed late (4/20) to do extra cleaning in "Ray's" kitchen".

There was "Ray's kitchen and there was a kitchen deemed "Prince's kitchen". Neither were CLEAN in my opinion.

I would also like to add:

When looking at the photos you have to keep in mind that there are photos taken on 4/21 by CCSO. That is the most accurate photos of PP at the time of P's demise. It didn't appear to be in really bad disarray, just not deep cleaned by a housekeeper which was MB's job to oversee and insure was completed.

The Photos taken 5/10 and 5/11 were taken by the FEDS. When those photos were taken 19 days had passed and there was fairly heavy traffic through PP by then. Packing up and discarding of personal items, ect. You see the photos when each room was entered prior to their search ,during and after the search of each room with evidence being placed in the gray bags.

Some of the issues in this case are due to the fact that PP should have been secured until a thorough and complete investigation was conducted and that the case should not have been based on assumations or incomplete stattements from witnesses. The fact is that PP was turned over to "the family" before an investigation was completed. There inlies the issue. I have said this before, you CANNOT go back. Things were moved, trashed, possibly taken, planted, ect. by the time the FEDS obtained a search warrant. PP was no longer pristeen due to contamination. Either way you look at it that is a true and fair evaluation of the case.

Thanks for speaking THE TRUTH! So they can STOP painting Prince as a slob that didn't care anymore.

Hey Chocolate, the place was a mess, how come you didn't help him clean it when you were there?

MMJas said:

Bassette said:

Apparently he didn't tolerate anyone in his private rooms anymore, not even a housekeeper. I guess this is the way dying looks like. And, because he didn't drink enough, his urine was dark colored. Maybe he was dizzy, maybe he was sleepy, anyway; what I found disturbing was that one black jacket on the floor in the corridor.

He was doing his own afro and applying his own makeup, which some people have commented on as pasty. So he was not letting anyone close, rather keeping a safe distance. The same with cleaning people. Most likely did not want people snooping around, especially having an addiction and risking it getting out into the public. Plus all the enemas and related issues. It's not really that hard to see.

[Edited 6/4/18 1:24am]

I agree. Even those making clothes for Prince did so via email. The wardrobe department, hair salon was obsolete. Prince became a recluse and I believe it was to hide his struggle. I also wonder how much music Prince made in 2016. His isolation was not helping him. Prince had new people around that had really no knowledge of Prince's past or habits. It seems like Prince and PP had no control, like driving a car without your hands on the wheel or steering a ship with no one at the helm.

The photo of Prince at Electric Fetus, the clothes seem like the same clothes he had on when he passed. Even the photo of the wash machine it seemed like the only thing in there were under clothes.

I wonder if Prince just ran out of creativity. Was this cause of the struggle? It is like the perfect storm that lead to his passing. I get a feeling he was not only struggling with pain, but pain pills, isolation/loneliness, depression, aging (which he still looked good for his age), artistic slowdown, decline in market share/sales, stress for taking care of many people, and who knows what else.

nelcp777 said:

MMJas said:

He was doing his own afro and applying his own makeup, which some people have commented on as pasty. So he was not letting anyone close, rather keeping a safe distance. The same with cleaning people. Most likely did not want people snooping around, especially having an addiction and risking it getting out into the public. Plus all the enemas and related issues. It's not really that hard to see.

[Edited 6/4/18 1:24am]

I agree. Even those making clothes for Prince did so via email. The wardrobe department, hair salon was obsolete. Prince became a recluse and I believe it was to hide his struggle. I also wonder how much music Prince made in 2016. His isolation was not helping him. Prince had new people around that had really no knowledge of Prince's past or habits. It seems like Prince and PP had no control, like driving a car without your hands on the wheel or steering a ship with no one at the helm.

The photo of Prince at Electric Fetus, the clothes seem like the same clothes he had on when he passed. Even the photo of the wash machine it seemed like the only thing in there were under clothes.

I wonder if Prince just ran out of creativity. Was this cause of the struggle? It is like the perfect storm that lead to his passing. I get a feeling he was not only struggling with pain, but pain pills, isolation/loneliness, depression, aging (which he still looked good for his age), artistic slowdown, decline in market share/sales, stress for taking care of many people, and who knows what else.

I know you're going to get slammed for correctly observing that he had become a recluse and those who criticize you will offer evidence of his touring schedule. But Prince on stage, IMO, was not Prince the struggling addict in his mind. On stage, he could again inhabit the Prince aura where everything was Lovesexy and he held his audience rapt with his genius and control of his artistry...control that was lacking re his intake of drugs. For someone so invested in control, he HAD to tour and perform...it was the only shread of "Prince" remaining.Imagine how he felt looking at pictures of himself at the piano toward the end where his hair and makeup were off, his body obviously undernourished...a portrait of pain...supreme artistry YES...but the pain was there for anyone with eyes and a heart to see. I think even he knew how exposed he was...

PennyPurple said:

disch said:

I think the state of pp has a lot less to do with whether or not prince was personally a “slob” and more to do with his use (or non-use) of hired cleaning help. - No one in his economic clsss is scrubbing their own toilets. If some very rich persons home is neat as a pin it’s because their help is on the ball. So my takeaway from the condition of his private quarters was more that it might not have been cleaned professionally on a regular basis. If so, why not? Was it for “ ”privacy” reasons? - PennyPurple said:

Hey Chocolate, the place was a mess, how come you didn't help him clean it when you were there?

Yes, I agree...I never expected him to be scrubbing his own toilet...it was for "privacy" reasons AND because the chaotic conditions at PP reflected the way he ran his trip in general...remember when at one point he decided he would write the checks himsellf for all PP invoices? bc how hard could it be to be his own bookeeper and manager on top of everything else? I think the general chaos was also because he didn't/wouldn't trust anyone to put their hands on his stuff. He apparently never threw stuff out...boarderline hoarder? He had always complained of how people stole from him...control, paranoia, trust issues...move along folks, nothing new to see here.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

disch said:

I agree — there was a generally chaotic approach to his business/staffing which is reflected in everything from aspects of pp maintenance to his (lack of) an estate plan. One of the sadder aspects of his life was his inability to establish long term trusting relationships with fully qualified people to help with his business needs (and daily personal life). There are probably a lot Of reasons for that. Bodhitheblackdog said:

Yes, I agree...I never expected him to be scrubbing his own toilet...it was for "privacy" reasons AND because the chaotic conditions at PP reflected the way he ran his trip in general...remember when at one point he decided he would write the checks himsellf for all PP invoices? bc how hard could it be to be his own bookeeper and manager on top of everything else? I think the general chaos was also because he didn't/wouldn't trust anyone to put their hands on his stuff. He apparently never threw stuff out...boarderline hoarder? He had always complained of how people stole from him...control, paranoia, trust issues...move along folks, nothing new to see here.

what a perfect summation, disch...nailed it.

PennyPurple said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

PennyPurple said:

Yes, it is, but IT WASN'T GIVEN TO PRINCE FOR HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE. IT HAS MULTI-USES.

Prince didn't have cancer pain nor ADHD, it's really not that hard to understand.the clonidine was more than likely prescribed to prince because he was going through withdrawal symptoms thus giving him high BP

I'll tell you what, when I get home from work, I'll look at the reports again, and report my findings.

He wasn't being treated for high blood pressure.

PennyPurple said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

PennyPurple said: Yeah..and?? People who go through withdrawal symptoms have high blood pressure, clonidine is for high blood pressure

Yes, it is, but IT WASN'T GIVEN TO PRINCE FOR HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE. IT HAS MULTI-USES.

Penny, dead on . At some point, you will find the pictures at the final stage without the makeup. You will also find them to have a very close resemblance with what you see quite often in hardcore users. This is the "look" often described by many who understood him to appear "sick" or "suffering " from something. Some people live in a very small cubbyhole and have never encountered a hardcore user with the ability to hide it very well. But it is a very distinct look and has nothing to do with being a man of slight build.

For those who wonder why his voice was not affected( perhaps as Whitney Houston's voice was affected),Prince was not a smoker sucking on a broken crack pipe for years, or hauling in carcinogens from Newports at a pack a day. Nor was he a hard core alcoholic. Pills and more pills. End. Stop. Move on.

As for the cleaning, organization and upkeep... those who purport that is wasn't that bad, (or that he didn't want anyone to know he was using) probably were never there when PP was in pristine condition and kept that way for many years . Everything was in decline and no amount of projected museum gargle could change that. They clearly have no idea why addicts could care less about some of the most fundamental things like eating , bathing, changing clothes etc. There's more to those pictures than just caked up urine on the floor. The less an addict has to do , the more he/she supplements with continued use. It is the only thing they are dedicated to doing every single day. I would be willing to bet that even music took a back seat to usage once his addiction progressed . It's just not the same when you are hardwired and primed for an addictive substance.

Watched that show in Montreux 2013 (part3)? Is he wearing heels and prancing around? Oh well. If he was, so much for the "hip" business.

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

Yes, it is, but IT WASN'T GIVEN TO PRINCE FOR HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE. IT HAS MULTI-USES.

Penny, dead on . At some point, you will find the pictures at the final stage without the makeup. You will also find them to have a very close resemblance with what you see quite often in hardcore users. This is the "look" often described by many who understood him to appear "sick" or "suffering " from something. Some people live in a very small cubbyhole and have never encountered a hardcore user with the ability to hide it very well. But it is a very distinct look and has nothing to do with being a man of slight build.

For those who wonder why his voice was not affected( perhaps as Whitney Houston's voice was affected),Prince was not a smoker sucking on a broken crack pipe for years, or hauling in carcinogens from Newports at a pack a day. Nor was he a hard core alcoholic. Pills and more pills. End. Stop. Move on.

As for the cleaning, organization and upkeep... those who purport that is wasn't that bad, (or that he didn't want anyone to know he was using) probably were never there when PP was in pristine condition and kept that way for many years . Everything was in decline and no amount of projected museum gargle could change that. They clearly have no idea why addicts could care less about some of the most fundamental things like eating , bathing, changing clothes etc. There's more to those pictures than just caked up urine on the floor. The less an addict has to do , the more he/she supplements with continued use. It is the only thing they are dedicated to doing every single day. I would be willing to bet that even music took a back seat to usage once his addiction progressed . It's just not the same when you are hardwired and primed for an addictive substance.

Watched that show in Montreux 2013 (part3)? Is he wearing heels and prancing around? Oh well. If he was, so much for the "hip" business.

co-sign/ missed you!

MMJas said:

Bassette said:

Apparently he didn't tolerate anyone in his private rooms anymore, not even a housekeeper. I guess this is the way dying looks like. And, because he didn't drink enough, his urine was dark colored. Maybe he was dizzy, maybe he was sleepy, anyway; what I found disturbing was that one black jacket on the floor in the corridor.

He was doing his own afro and applying his own makeup, which some people have commented on as pasty. So he was not letting anyone close, rather keeping a safe distance. The same with cleaning people. Most likely did not want people snooping around, especially having an addiction and risking it getting out into the public. Plus all the enemas and related issues. It's not really that hard to see.

[Edited 6/4/18 1:24am]

There is a picture (I believe further back on this thread) of Prince at (I think it's a tennis match) leaning down and laughing. You can see a bald spot in the middle of his head. His afro is covering it but it is visible. I'm surprised no one has noticed this yet. When I saw it, I knew immediatly why he'd let Kim go and was doing his own hair. It must have been terribly hard for him, to be losing his hair. It's only hair and he's an older man, it is not a big deal. But to Prince it had to be very hard.

Strawberrylova123 said:

PennyPurple said:

I'll tell you what, when I get home from work, I'll look at the reports again, and report my findings.

He wasn't being treated for high blood pressure.

But i didn't say he was being treated specifically for blood...F it,you still don't understand [Edited 6/4/18 10:50am]

of all the things that might cause some concern, the blood pressure is not one of them, anyone who has checked their own BP regularly knows that it fluctuates all the time, so unless it's always high it's not really a big deal. sometimes mine is high, most of the time it's not far from normal, it's never been that much of a problem.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said: Here's. The thing, how do you or any of us know for sure that's urine?? Did the investigators state it was urine?

Here, try this: Prince pisses into a toilet in his private bathroom, the base of said toilet is caked with what looks like dried urine. Would a fully functional rational human being call for housekeeping or his maintenance staff to fix the disgusting appearance?...or would he just go on peeing NOT CARING what anyone thought of his degradation? Take. Your. Choice. Bonus points if you can remember that this prideful man spent decades projecting an impeccable, curated, polished appearance...and was even known for always smelling good! But in the last few days of his life..it appears he never changed his clothes. Is your heart broken yet?

[Edited 6/3/18 14:04pm]

was the pic in those youtube vids? I watched all of them and didn't see any urine stained toilet.

Bassette said:

Re: Why I find a jacket on the floor disturbing: Because of the location; it seems to be a long corridor. I must admit, my mind can drive me crazy, and I am easily worried, so what occurred to me when I saw that jacket on the floor. . . My heart beated double times. Did he try to go outside paisley park? What happened? How did he move? [Edited 6/3/18 16:20pm]

maybe he did struggled to get help, we've wondered about how long from when he realized he was in trouble to when he was unconscious that he had though, from the sounds of it, with the level of fentanyl, some people have said it would have hit him so hard he'd have never even realized it so who knows. I've heard different things.

PeteSilas said:

PeteSilas said:

Bassette said:

Re: Why I find a jacket on the floor disturbing: Because of the location; it seems to be a long corridor. I must admit, my mind can drive me crazy, and I am easily worried, so what occurred to me when I saw that jacket on the floor. . . My heart beated double times. Did he try to go outside paisley park? What happened? How did he move? [Edited 6/3/18 16:20pm]

maybe he did struggled to get help, we've wondered about how long from when he realized he was in trouble to when he was unconscious that he had though, from the sounds of it, with the level of fentanyl, some people have said it would have hit him so hard he'd have never even realized it so who knows. I've heard different things.

If one believes the dosage ingested was calculated accurately, the ME made it easier for you. Isn't there a thread floating around the org that calculates how far the elevator was from let's say , the bedroom? The kitchen? Take your "pic".<<<<< Hmm, I see what you did there. Where did he take the pills? Where was he found? Was the elevator going up or down? Did they find him upstairs or downstairs inside the elevator? How long would it take him to go from point a to b?

Many ions ago, I posted a video of the elevator and the "vault" in relation to, and proximity of, the lay out in the house. I wanted to post the distances from each point ( since square footage and dimensions are available + rate per second an elevator may descend or ascend with "x" amount of floors given. Its math, not emotion. Mods moved in and re-posted it in a hidden compartment in the nether regions of the org, thereby, killing the subtle hint into an inquiry. I did that for a reason, many many ions ago. All was revealed very early on. Seek.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

Penny, dead on . At some point, you will find the pictures at the final stage without the makeup. You will also find them to have a very close resemblance with what you see quite often in hardcore users. This is the "look" often described by many who understood him to appear "sick" or "suffering " from something. Some people live in a very small cubbyhole and have never encountered a hardcore user with the ability to hide it very well. But it is a very distinct look and has nothing to do with being a man of slight build.

For those who wonder why his voice was not affected( perhaps as Whitney Houston's voice was affected),Prince was not a smoker sucking on a broken crack pipe for years, or hauling in carcinogens from Newports at a pack a day. Nor was he a hard core alcoholic. Pills and more pills. End. Stop. Move on.

As for the cleaning, organization and upkeep... those who purport that is wasn't that bad, (or that he didn't want anyone to know he was using) probably were never there when PP was in pristine condition and kept that way for many years . Everything was in decline and no amount of projected museum gargle could change that. They clearly have no idea why addicts could care less about some of the most fundamental things like eating , bathing, changing clothes etc. There's more to those pictures than just caked up urine on the floor. The less an addict has to do , the more he/she supplements with continued use. It is the only thing they are dedicated to doing every single day. I would be willing to bet that even music took a back seat to usage once his addiction progressed . It's just not the same when you are hardwired and primed for an addictive substance.

Watched that show in Montreux 2013 (part3)? Is he wearing heels and prancing around? Oh well. If he was, so much for the "hip" business.

co-sign/ missed you!

Howdy! How are they treating you ? Give em what ya got. You know you got it!

disch said:

When he oded on the plane it seemed to hit him suddenly. Based on the amount of fentanyl in his system I imagine it was a similar thing here (he went unconscious at once, rather than a slower drifting off) PeteSilas said:

maybe he did struggled to get help, we've wondered about how long from when he realized he was in trouble to when he was unconscious that he had though, from the sounds of it, with the level of fentanyl, some people have said it would have hit him so hard he'd have never even realized it so who knows. I've heard different things.

that's what i would think, from what others have said, he wouldn't have had any time to do anything but i know nothing about the drugs he took or their effects. I've witnessed a couple local od's in libraries here, homeless idiots but they seem to be able to bring them around, i don't see them walking around and collapsing, the ones i've seen were sitting or in the bathroom. I don't know much about opiates.

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

co-sign/ missed you!

Howdy! How are they treating you ? Give em what ya got. You know you got it!

I get delirious when you hold my hand (Delirious)
Body gets so weak I can hardly stand
My temperature's runnin' hot
Baby you got 2 stop

'Cuz if you don't I'm gonna explode
And girl I got a lot

Menes said:

PeteSilas said:

maybe he did struggled to get help, we've wondered about how long from when he realized he was in trouble to when he was unconscious that he had though, from the sounds of it, with the level of fentanyl, some people have said it would have hit him so hard he'd have never even realized it so who knows. I've heard different things.

If one believes the dosage ingested was calculated accurately, the ME made it easier for you. Isn't there a thread floating around the org that calculates how far the elevator was from let's say , the bedroom? The kitchen? Take your "pic".<<<<< Hmm, I see what you did there. Where did he take the pills? Where was he found? Was the elevator going up or down? Did they find him upstairs or downstairs inside the elevator? How long would it take him to go from point a to b?

Many ions ago, I posted a video of the elevator and the "vault" in relation to, and proximity of, the lay out in the house. I wanted to post the distances from each point ( since square footage and dimensions are available + rate per second an elevator may descend or ascend with "x" amount of floors given. Its math, not emotion. Mods moved in and re-posted it in a hidden compartment in the nether regions of the org, thereby, killing the subtle hint into an inquiry. I did that for a reason, many many ions ago. All was revealed very early on. Seek.

well, why don't you say? it sounded like enough to kill an elephant, which is why people deduce that it was suicide, but then you have people who just want to call it an accident by a confused drug addict.

So a bald head coud speak for P in the ambulance (Moline), determine P was experiencing withdrawal symptoms (after visit with Dr S 4/20) but couldn't hire someone to provide maid/cleaning services for Paisley?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

nelcp777 said:

I agree. Even those making clothes for Prince did so via email. The wardrobe department, hair salon was obsolete. Prince became a recluse and I believe it was to hide his struggle. I also wonder how much music Prince made in 2016. His isolation was not helping him. Prince had new people around that had really no knowledge of Prince's past or habits. It seems like Prince and PP had no control, like driving a car without your hands on the wheel or steering a ship with no one at the helm.

The photo of Prince at Electric Fetus, the clothes seem like the same clothes he had on when he passed. Even the photo of the wash machine it seemed like the only thing in there were under clothes.

I wonder if Prince just ran out of creativity. Was this cause of the struggle? It is like the perfect storm that lead to his passing. I get a feeling he was not only struggling with pain, but pain pills, isolation/loneliness, depression, aging (which he still looked good for his age), artistic slowdown, decline in market share/sales, stress for taking care of many people, and who knows what else.

I know you're going to get slammed for correctly observing that he had become a recluse and those who criticize you will offer evidence of his touring schedule. But Prince on stage, IMO, was not Prince the struggling addict in his mind. On stage, he could again inhabit the Prince aura where everything was Lovesexy and he held his audience rapt with his genius and control of his artistry...control that was lacking re his intake of drugs. For someone so invested in control, he HAD to tour and perform...it was the only shread of "Prince" remaining.Imagine how he felt looking at pictures of himself at the piano toward the end where his hair and makeup were off, his body obviously undernourished...a portrait of pain...supreme artistry YES...but the pain was there for anyone with eyes and a heart to see. I think even he knew how exposed he was...

An excellent post.

Thank you for your professional opinion.

Amazing how he was able to do all this while high off his ass and incurring 65k medical expenses Really though, it's important to distinguish between Prince the musician and Prince the man. Because, historically or anecdotally, when has genius ever been associated with perfect emotional intelligence? In fact, it's well known in psychiatric circles that their absolute dedication to their art and obsessive work ethic often comes at a cost, and their proclivity towards 'emotional' intelligence is often lacking as a result. There's no shame in that, unless I'm misreading.

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

Yes, it is, but IT WASN'T GIVEN TO PRINCE FOR HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE. IT HAS MULTI-USES.

Penny, dead on . At some point, you will find the pictures at the final stage without the makeup. You will also find them to have a very close resemblance with what you see quite often in hardcore users. This is the "look" often described by many who understood him to appear "sick" or "suffering " from something. Some people live in a very small cubbyhole and have never encountered a hardcore user with the ability to hide it very well. But it is a very distinct look and has nothing to do with being a man of slight build.

Can you explain this 'look'? Is it glazed eyes, open mouth expression, for instance?

Could Prince's addiction have played a role in how Paisley Park had deteriorated? Of course. But here's another thing to consider. Paisley Park was HUGE - with a shit ton of stuff in it. Even if he'd been 100%, there's a good chance Prince would have found its upkeep daunting.

Hell - right now, I have two closets in a 1500 square foot condo that are in desperate need of purging. And because it is a big job and I have no idea where to even start, and because I am so terrified of throwing out something I will miss if I do, I just gimp along with the overstuffed closets.

My storage lockers in the basement are disorganized and very dusty. (Have you ever tried to keep a storage locker attached to a garage dust free?) If I manage to keep my toilets (I have three) ring free, I feel like I'm doing a pretty good job.

If you looked at me right now at work, you would think I was the most put-together person around. If you looked at my house, you'd probably think I had a drug problem. But the fact of the matter is, I am a woman with a full-time job who doesn't have a lot of time to spend cleaning and who can't afford to pay someone to do her cleaning for her.

Even if I could, I probably woundn't want a comparative stranger to be in close contact with my stuff. And I don't have the valuables Prince did.

Just something to think about.