rednblue said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

There are a number of people who have posted on this thread who are simpatico with Pete, including myself and there is a level of medical naivete on this thread which make me cringe.

Please delineate his unrelenting pain. Hip repacements are standard and the post-op result is almost complete reduction of pain. If his other hip hurt, the same surgery could have been performed. No big deal.There is very little blood loss with these surgeries. His hands and arms hurt. The treatment: stop playing piano for one week, ice, elevate your arms and take Advil/Motrin. Where on his body is this unrelenting pain? Please be more specific.There is recent video showing him walking easily with a steady gait and no cane.

What concerns me is the significant weight loss over a relatively short period and no real proof of unremitting pain (to the degree that some of you feel) Please tell which limb or other body part is hurting.

Because of the weight loss in a short amount of time and no real sign of the pain mentioned on this thread, I have come to a different conclusion. Please be more respectful of Prince, he had more going on.

peggyon said:

I see your point Disch. Prince was quite thin at other times. He seemed really thin in 2009 which was likely exacerbated by drug use. However, his thinness looked different to me several months before he died; he looked sick and skeletal... It was more alarming. It could have been the drugs but I sense something else was happening as well.

I would just like us to realize that none of us has the answers (the autopsy has not been viewed by any of us),and that we need to allow others a voice as well. Being open to all points of view will help us eventually uncover the truth.

Prince should have tested his medicene that he got undercover. Wonder how costly that would have been? I think he was set up to have that much Fentanyl!

disch said:

I agree with you that there’s little evidence he was in excruciating unrelenting physical pain in his final months. Mainly because there’s no evidence he sought medical treatment for that kind of pain and there’d be no reason for him not. - I would ask you about the idea that he had a dramatic sudden weight loss. Do you think he looked notably thinner in 2016 than other specific period such as around 2010 or 1995? I think he had other times where he was notably underweight and I think all of those periods drugs may have played a role. Drugs can absolutely cause weight loss. peggyon said:

There are a number of people who have posted on this thread who are simpatico with Pete, including myself and there is a level of medical naivete on this thread which make me cringe.

Please delineate his unrelenting pain. Hip repacements are standard and the post-op result is almost complete reduction of pain. If his other hip hurt, the same surgery could have been performed. No big deal.There is very little blood loss with these surgeries. His hands and arms hurt. The treatment: stop playing piano for one week, ice, elevate your arms and take Advil/Motrin. Where on his body is this unrelenting pain? Please be more specific.There is recent video showing him walking easily with a steady gait and no cane.

What concerns me is the significant weight loss over a relatively short period and no real proof of unremitting pain (to the degree that some of you feel) Please tell which limb or other body part is hurting.

Because of the weight loss in a short amount of time and no real sign of the pain mentioned on this thread, I have come to a different conclusion. Please be more respectful of Prince, he had more going on.

When you are older and loose weight, it shows more and looks worse. Add to that heavy makeup and loose clothing and the natural hair look and overall it made him look older and frailer.

disch said:

You “hold out hope” that he had a terminal illness?? Why would him enduring the anguish and pain of a terminal diagnosis be something you “hope” for? - What that says to me is that it’s more important to you that you can maintain whatever narrative you constructed in your own mind than the actual pain and suffering of another person. I hope that whatever struggles he faced in his last months did not include grappling with a terminal diagnosis. Good god. PeteSilas said:

I still don't know what to think. I don't think he was murdered. These counterfeit pills sometimes are laced it is not uncommon I think. You really are playing Russian Roulette when you take these channels. It is so risky. Prince had to have realised that. I think maybe like Tricky Christopher said something else was going on with him...his health. That weight loss just didn't seem normal to me even though he was always a small build.

i'm really holding out hope that he had a terminal or serious illness, the thought that he was just another addict or committed suicide, the most likely reasons, is really dissapointing to me.

[Edited 5/28/18 12:56pm] [Edited 5/28/18 12:57pm]

Wanting him to have a terminal disease instead of a painkiller addiction is exactly the type of denial which led Prince to this point. That's how big the stigma is. I've actually seen mothers state they would prefer their kids to be terminally ill than have a drug addiction. We have a long way to go...

herb4 said:

PennyPurple said:

Pain killers will not get you 'high as fuck' if you use them like you are supposed to. Chronic pain patients are on them and they aren't 'high as fuck'. When you ABUSE them is when you get 'high as fuck'.

This.

I'm still surprised after 10 threads, a lot of intense research and very informative posts and links about teh subject that people remain confused about the real nature of these drugs and how they work. They're highly addictive, REALLY work and induce a calm, blissful feeling in the user that diminishes over time.

The incredibly frustrating thing for me (aside from the stubborn, bull headed conspiracy theory die hards) has been watching this conversation unfold for two years now, over 10 threads, and people still chiming in to talk about how "drug addicts" behave, as if it's binary and it's always "fucked up junkie" or "totally functional straight guy". Functional addiction is a real thing. Not everyone who uses drugs turns into Sly Stone, Amy Whinehouse or John Frusciante. It's like nobody has learned anything about drugs since Nancy Reagan went on "Different Strokes".

People use drugs (prescribed or otherwise), drink alcohol, smoke weed and any number of things without crashing their cars into telephone polls, getting fired, passing out in public restrooms. pissing thier pants daily or ruining their lives and becoming dysfunctional drooling retards. There's a fucking SCALE to it and varying degrees of "intensity" or dependency. Same way not everone who joins a church stands on a street corner waving a "JOHN:316/The End is Nigh/Repent" sign or becomes a fanatic about it. Or that any NRA member stockpiles an arsenal in his bomb shelter and waits for the government. It's not always a Nikki Sixx/Scott Weiland/Sid Vicous level of depravity and despair that signifies an addict or even defines a drug user.

Your accountant, banker, doctor, boss, brother, mechanic, Uber driver, bellhop, waiter, lawyer, gardener, mailman, babysitter, nurse, lifeguard, priest, professor, weather man, pro atheletes...a larger percentage than any of you might think...have used drugs at one point or another and often function perfectly fine. Several of them are proabably on drugs RIGHT NOW. This idea that "drugs always ruin your life and anyone who uses them ever winds up on skid row" is outdated, D.A.R.E. level, baby school shit (designed to keep young minds away from things that might possibly cause them trouble) manifested into adult thinking that never moved past that level of critical thought or advanced past TV commercial platitudes about the nature of medication. People take anti depressants, diet pills, LSD, XTC, xanax, lithium, pain meds, ADHD meds, melatonin, adderall...STEROIDS...

You meet them every day and most of them are NOT living out of a shopping cart in a cardboard box. Most of them, by FAR, live in homes, are not criminals, have jobs and contribute to society. Why does the idea that Prince could (and did) function at an extremely high level over a period of years while taking pain meds and ultimately becoming addicted to them have to be an anathema simply because people don't understand this issue past a 3rd grade level? Why is it so difficult to grasp? If Prince's general level of pain killer intake, over time, is what I think it was there's nothing in that level of medication that would preclude him of acheiving what he did. Nothing whatsoever. Especially for an artist.

I can rattle off a hundred of publicly admitted "drug users" that are a-OK and perfectly fine, often highly accomplished people. Some of them had trouble, sure.

*Cue Laura Richardson or some other idiot claiming that I wrote that "all drug users are highly functional".*

Which I've never said. Prince was.

The reason that it seems disproportinate and so "out of whack" - an "epidemic" - is that most people aren't public about thier use (for legal and medically personal reasons) and that you only hear about the out of control cases and high level celebrities or out of control folks that wound up over enabled, in over their heads and ultimately shitting the bed with it all or making a fool out of themselves in public. Also, doctors LEGALLY over prescribed this shit and CREATED addicts while the government locked up pot smokers and drug testing made them unemployable, but that's another discussion.

Maybe we need a "drug/painkiller/weed/alcohol" thread.

^Absolutely.

Bondno9 said:

Astasheiks said:

disch said:

Um you seriously think that theres some lab out there where people can pay to take their illegally acquired drugs to, the lab will test them for their exact chemical composition, and then the lab will politely hand the illegal drugs back to their owner with the information? That sounds like a realistic process that people who acquire illegal drugs (and drug labs) would engage in? Astasheiks said:

Prince should have tested his medicene that he got undercover. Wonder how costly that would have been? I think he was set up to have that much Fentanyl!

I agree with Bondno regarding the autopsy results. We are not privy to much of that report.

peggyon said:

disch said:

Um you seriously think that theres some lab out there where people can pay to take their illegally acquired drugs to, the lab will test them for their exact chemical composition, and then the lab will politely hand the illegal drugs back to their owner with the information? That sounds like a realistic process that people who acquire illegal drugs (and drug labs) would engage in? Astasheiks said:

I agree with Bondno regarding the autopsy results. We are not privy to much of that report.

No, but we are privy to some of the medical records that have been released.

Yes, we have been allowed some information, but my concern is that we are rushing to judgment based on limited knowedge.The investigative results are relatively new to us and I feel that emotions are running high.

I am asking that we slow down and use language that is more open and tolerant of other voices.

Prince and his family were/are masters of obfuscation. Knowing this about them, let's be a little more

patient and see what unfolds.

peggyon said:

Yes, we have been allowed some information, but my concern is that we are rushing to judgment based on limited knowedge.The investigative results are relatively new to us and I feel that emotions are running high.

I am asking that we slow down and use language that is more open and tolerant of other voices.

Prince and his family were/are masters of obfuscation. Knowing this about them, let's be a little more

patient and see what unfolds.

Patience is a virtue...but it's not easy.

disch said:

I’m aware if this; we’ve discussed it quite a bit here in the 2 years since the autopsy summary was released. There are differences of opinion here about how secondary factors get included on the summary report (there are lines designated on the summary document for secondary factors in which the me write “n/a”. There’s good into from the cdc and other sources about guidelines for filling out these forms too you can google.) - Have you had a chance to read the investigation dOcs? If so you still think it’s plauduble that he had terminal illness that went unmentioned by any witness (including the me in her quotes) and unpursued by investigators? - Bondno9 said:

The investigation documents are separate from the medical examiner data. ME data classified as public was released via the autopsy summary. Secondary factors are considered private data. Under MN law the public is not entitled to any private data that was released to Prince's next of kin. As the public all we have been given is toxicology but not health.

[Edited 5/28/18 17:52pm]

[Edited 5/28/18 17:54pm]

Yes, I've read the investigation report. While public data has been released (i.e. manner and cause of death) all other medical examiner data is considered private or nonpublic data under Minnesota law. This means all other medical examiner data on Prince Rogers Nelson is considered private or nonpublic data. As a result, the Midwest Medical Examiner's Office did not and will not release any further information about the case.

---

The Minnesota statute covering medical examiner data can be
found here:

https://www.revisor.mn.go.../?id=13.83

I agree that whether P had an additional serious, or even terminal, medical condition is something we don't know with certainty.

That said, for people thinking about this idea and/or struggling to reconcile "hero" and "addiction," it might help to remember that addiction can have big effects on many medical conditions.

Addiction can make people more vulnerable to acquiring other conditions in the first place (and vice versa, of course). In addition to making other diagnoses more likely, addiction can affect course and treatment.

Some of this is probably obvious, e.g., toll of substances on organs. Some maybe not so obvious, e.g., opiates interact significantly with the immune system.

So allowing that we don't know for sure, I'm still at the place of what I said before (and thank you for the cosign, 206Michelle):

The culture's old, tired, stigma-laden ideas make it painful for some to put "addiction" and "hero" in the same space.

In truth, most medical conditions result from a combination of interacting factors. Alongside predisposition and environment, there are personal choices.

Addiction in particular is saddled with simplistic notions of character flaws and longing for a binary of good people and bad people.

Reality is nuanced. Equating medical conditions with character flaws is false and destructive.

peggyon said:

peggyon said:

Yes, we have been allowed some information, but my concern is that we are rushing to judgment based on limited knowedge.The investigative results are relatively new to us and I feel that emotions are running high.

I am asking that we slow down and use language that is more open and tolerant of other voices.

Prince and his family were/are masters of obfuscation. Knowing this about them, let's be a little more

patient and see what unfolds.

We've been given all of the investigative info. Have you read all of it yet? There is no rushing to judgement, it's been 2 years now. There was no murder, no disease, no poison food....

PennyPurple said:

peggyon said:

Yes, we have been allowed some information, but my concern is that we are rushing to judgment based on limited knowedge.The investigative results are relatively new to us and I feel that emotions are running high.

I am asking that we slow down and use language that is more open and tolerant of other voices.

Prince and his family were/are masters of obfuscation. Knowing this about them, let's be a little more

patient and see what unfolds.

We've been given all of the investigative info. Have you read all of it yet? There is no rushing to judgement, it's been 2 years now. There was no murder, no disease, no poison food....

There is a transcript from Dr. S's interview with the detective.

Nothing was redacted from the transcript other than Dr. S's, date of birth.

Dr. S said the evaluation/test was done in part to potentially find "medical evidence that these medications were harming Prince" as a way to convince him to seek treatment.

Dr. S says nothing was there. If Dr. S had stated P had an underlying medical condition/illness you would see a redaction of that portion of the transcript.

PennyPurple said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

PennyPurple said:

rednblue said:

Krystalkisses said:

rednblue said:

As far as documents released...

I think it's reasonable to say there may be evidence pointing to possibility of depression, and depression can be a serious condition.

I .

Im glad you said this. Depression and substance abuse are often conditions that coexist together.

He wasn't diagnosed with depression.

Krystalkisses said:

PennyPurple said:

PennyPurple said: