Yes! People can change. Another thing that can produce seeming contradictions that aren't really contradictions.

Also, some things that have been cited as out of character for Prince could be seen as akin to past struggles. Prince did have struggles with control over the years. Sometimes he sang about them.

For one example re: control, Paisley did at times have business issues, issues where P either wasn't aware of disarray that a boss should know about, or didn't want to acknowledge not being in control of disarray.

P didn't sing about that. But he did make some amazing music where, to me, he sang about the opposite of being in easy and full control. Music about struggling to be in control when it came to matters of the heart. I love him for that, as I think many have those struggles, and it takes very rare guts and talent to so beautifully and honestly lay it out there.

kmama07 said:

disch said:

Another angle is: He might have changed over the years. What Susan Rogers knew about him in the 80s might have been absolutely true... then. But everyone's pretty different at 57 than 27.

Good point Disch

[Edited 5/22/18 13:45pm]

[Edited 5/22/18 14:15pm]

[Edited 5/22/18 15:29pm]

[Edited 5/23/18 5:46am]

BillieBalloon said:

TrcikyChristopher said:

You're welcome. I tried.

Tried what exactly? You havent said anything that clarified further the circumstances surrounding Princes death. Its not like you left subtle clues for us to connect the dots. You know what i think? You know NOTHING. The reason I say you know nothing is because I read your posts, did you read your posts? Perhaps you should because they honestly have not revealed anything we dont already know. So no, i dont believe you know anything. . [Edited 5/22/18 12:24pm]

kmama07 said:

nelcp777 said:

Prince just did not seem as vibrant in his last years. He scaled back in both operations and lifestyle. It seems he was living more of a simple and less flamboyant lifestyle. Even his wardrobe was sparse and simplistic.

I am comparing this to the Prince persona most of us are accustomed too. Perhaps Prince was just burned out, creatively the well was running out?

Prince seemed to become more reclusive. Gone was the wardrobe department or salon in PP. He worked with others via email and less in person. Is this contributed to his age, not needing more and so forth?

I think that as a whole, Prince kept his stuff together when you consider his early years and childhood. Did this take a toll on him after 57 years? Did Prince go from taking pain pills for crippling pain to slef-medicating the past?

Unfortunately that is something we will never really know. We can speculate until the cows come home but it doesn't seem ANYONE really knew him that intimately to know for sure. His family and so-called friends and business associates certainly aren't going to let us know...even if they DO know. Unless/until perhaps the purses runs empty and the "tell-all" books start lining the shelves.

i do think that will happen, whatever happens, i just hope it's truthful but i know it won't be. People always have an agenda. problem is, as in a case like the jfk assasination, everything gets so fucked up in the meantime that there is no way to say anything definitive because how everything gets botched.

PeteSilas said:

also, i was reading up on opioids yesterday, one guy said he could do more work without sleep, i thought "that sounds familiar".

Some opioid effects really do make you think.

As far as sleep goes, it's also true that a small percentage of the population may have genetic variant(s) that correlate with significantly decreased need for sleep. So I suppose that's something that could have conceivably played into how little P slept.

One article that touches on this: http://healthland.time.co...-deprived/

[Edited 5/22/18 14:12pm]

[Edited 5/22/18 14:13pm]

the mind cunt can get into kirk's vault.....if only it was in the proper hands

luvsexy4all said:

the mind cunt can get into kirk's vault.....if only it was in the proper hands

what's a mind cunt? i'm lost.

PeteSilas said:

luvsexy4all said:

the mind cunt can get into kirk's vault.....if only it was in the proper hands

what's a mind cunt? i'm lost.

unreleased computer program that reads minds

rednblue said:

PeteSilas said:

also, i was reading up on opioids yesterday, one guy said he could do more work without sleep, i thought "that sounds familiar".

Some opioid effects really do make you think.

As far as sleep goes, it's also true that a small percentage of the population may have genetic variant(s) that correlate with significantly decreased need for sleep. So I suppose that's something that could have conceivably played into how little P slept.

One article that touches on this: http://healthland.time.co...-deprived/

[Edited 5/22/18 14:12pm]

[Edited 5/22/18 14:13pm]

one thing I do know and believe, that when you make any kind of little compromise, it can lead to disasterous compromise. So, Prince, who may have been clean at one time, those little compromises lead to what happened with a lot of addicts. We all have it, i have food, i go through all the things an addict would go through with food, so i can understand it through that prism. as far as drugs? i hate them, i lost weight taking a pill a few mos ago but it made me feel euphoric so i stopped taking it.

PeteSilas said:

rednblue said:

Some opioid effects really do make you think.

As far as sleep goes, it's also true that a small percentage of the population may have genetic variant(s) that correlate with significantly decreased need for sleep. So I suppose that's something that could have conceivably played into how little P slept.

One article that touches on this: http://healthland.time.co...-deprived/

[Edited 5/22/18 14:12pm]

[Edited 5/22/18 14:13pm]

one thing I do know and believe, that when you make any kind of little compromise, it can lead to disasterous compromise. So, Prince, who may have been clean at one time, those little compromises lead to what happened with a lot of addicts. We all have it, i have food, i go through all the things an addict would go through with food, so i can understand it through that prism. as far as drugs? i hate them, i lost weight taking a pill a few mos ago but it made me feel euphoric so i stopped taking it.

"...lost weight taking a pill a few mos ago but it made me feel euphoric so I stopped taking it." Wow, I feel for you. I would think that would be really, really upsetting and frustrating.

So many aggravating ironies, and sometimes it seems like there's trouble almost any way a person turns. As one example, a thing I've learned over the years is that compulsive control, and too little control, can be reverse sides of the same destructive coin.

I, too, have prisms through which I can relate. I'm lucky not to struggle with food as much as a couple of my friends. That said, for years now, I've been overeating with celebrations and with stress. Each time I do it, I say I'm gonna knock it off, but it's not long before it happens again.

As an aside, researchers are finding some common stuff underlying drug and food compulsions, e.g. "Food addiction: A common neurobiological mechanism with drug abuse." https://pdfs.semanticscho...e11622.pdf
Nora Volkow, one of the authors of this article, has been the director of the (United States) National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) at the National Institutes of Health since 2003.

[Edited 5/22/18 15:12pm]

[Edited 5/22/18 15:25pm]

no lie, i felt too good, real good and my own mind told me "danger" and i stopped. same reason i stopped taking headache pills after P died, after he died i just figured "a headache won't kill me, drugs will" and i tossed em out the window. however, unfortunately, medication can be helpful and necessary which is something that we have to have discretion with and what can we do when it's the corrupt doctors who turn out to be the pushers? fuck em all.

rednblue said:

PeteSilas said:

one thing I do know and believe, that when you make any kind of little compromise, it can lead to disasterous compromise. So, Prince, who may have been clean at one time, those little compromises lead to what happened with a lot of addicts. We all have it, i have food, i go through all the things an addict would go through with food, so i can understand it through that prism. as far as drugs? i hate them, i lost weight taking a pill a few mos ago but it made me feel euphoric so i stopped taking it.

"...lost weight taking a pill a few mos ago but it made me feel euphoric so I stopped taking it." Wow, I feel for you. I would think that would be really, really upsetting and frustrating.

So many aggravating ironies, and sometimes it seems like there's trouble almost any way a person turns. As one example, a thing I've learned over the years is that compulsive control, and too little control, can be reverse sides of the same destructive coin.

I, too, have prisms through which I can relate. I'm lucky not to struggle with food as much as a couple of my friends. That said, for years now, I've been overeating with celebrations and with stress. Each time I do it, I say I'm gonna knock it off, but it's not long before it happens again.

As an aside, researchers are finding some similar stuff underlying drug and food compulsions: https://pdfs.semanticscho...e11622.pdf

PeteSilas said:

no lie, i felt too good, real good and my own mind told me "danger" and i stopped. same reason i stopped taking headache pills after P died, after he died i just figured "a headache won't kill me, drugs will" and i tossed em out the window. however, unfortunately, medication can be helpful and necessary which is something that we have to have discretion with and what can we do when it's the corrupt doctors who turn out to be the pushers? fuck em all.

rednblue said:

"...lost weight taking a pill a few mos ago but it made me feel euphoric so I stopped taking it." Wow, I feel for you. I would think that would be really, really upsetting and frustrating.

So many aggravating ironies, and sometimes it seems like there's trouble almost any way a person turns. As one example, a thing I've learned over the years is that compulsive control, and too little control, can be reverse sides of the same destructive coin.

I, too, have prisms through which I can relate. I'm lucky not to struggle with food as much as a couple of my friends. That said, for years now, I've been overeating with celebrations and with stress. Each time I do it, I say I'm gonna knock it off, but it's not long before it happens again.

As an aside, researchers are finding some similar stuff underlying drug and food compulsions: https://pdfs.semanticscho...e11622.pdf

That's impressive, and I really feel for you with the headaches. They can be just awful. My mom gets bad migraines, and I've read that cluster headaches can be absolutely hellish.

"unfortunately, medication can be helpful and necessary which is something that we have to have discretion with..." Agree completely, and I sometimes fail at exercising the discretion I should with stuff in life.

I personally haven't experienced anything like the level of physical and/or emotional pain that some are subjected to, and I judge nobody for being done with prolonged excruciating pain. I just wish all people could have any decent treatment options available to them.

rednblue said:

PeteSilas said:

no lie, i felt too good, real good and my own mind told me "danger" and i stopped. same reason i stopped taking headache pills after P died, after he died i just figured "a headache won't kill me, drugs will" and i tossed em out the window. however, unfortunately, medication can be helpful and necessary which is something that we have to have discretion with and what can we do when it's the corrupt doctors who turn out to be the pushers? fuck em all.

That's impressive, and I really feel for you with the headaches. They can be just awful. My mom gets bad migraines, and I've read that cluster headaches can be absolutely hellish.

"unfortunately, medication can be helpful and necessary which is something that we have to have discretion with..." Agree completely, and I sometimes fail at exercising the discretion I should with stuff in life.

I personally haven't experienced anything like the level of physical and/or emotional pain that some are subjected to, and I judge nobody for being done with prolonged excruciating pain. I just wish all people could have any decent treatment options available to them.

migraines get hellish but.., i know i won't die, i'll just wish i could, but i won't. so, hence, no drugs. however, how to function in that kind of state is something that is not easy and it would burn someone out if they tried to do it all the time. I knew a navy seal with war wounds, he'd try to lessen or kick his morphine habit and it stressed everyone around him out because we hoped and hoped he could do it and all of us could sense the deluge of relapse which came hard and had him nodding off doing his job and cutting off a finger. Some people have no real hope, sad to say. whether prince was in that kind of pain or not, only he knew.

PeteSilas said:

rednblue said:

That's impressive, and I really feel for you with the headaches. They can be just awful. My mom gets bad migraines, and I've read that cluster headaches can be absolutely hellish.

"unfortunately, medication can be helpful and necessary which is something that we have to have discretion with..." Agree completely, and I sometimes fail at exercising the discretion I should with stuff in life.

I personally haven't experienced anything like the level of physical and/or emotional pain that some are subjected to, and I judge nobody for being done with prolonged excruciating pain. I just wish all people could have any decent treatment options available to them.

migraines get hellish but.., i know i won't die, i'll just wish i could, but i won't. so, hence, no drugs. however, how to function in that kind of state is something that is not easy and it would burn someone out if they tried to do it all the time. I knew a navy seal with war wounds, he'd try to lessen or kick his morphine habit and it stressed everyone around him out because we hoped and hoped he could do it and all of us could sense the deluge of relapse which came hard and had him nodding off doing his job and cutting off a finger. Some people have no real hope, sad to say. whether prince was in that kind of pain or not, only he knew.

Those stories really give perspective. Make me grateful for my gentle life.

rednblue said:

PeteSilas said:

migraines get hellish but.., i know i won't die, i'll just wish i could, but i won't. so, hence, no drugs. however, how to function in that kind of state is something that is not easy and it would burn someone out if they tried to do it all the time. I knew a navy seal with war wounds, he'd try to lessen or kick his morphine habit and it stressed everyone around him out because we hoped and hoped he could do it and all of us could sense the deluge of relapse which came hard and had him nodding off doing his job and cutting off a finger. Some people have no real hope, sad to say. whether prince was in that kind of pain or not, only he knew.

Those stories really give perspective. Make me grateful for my gentle life.

ya, i hate those people that say just "be tough" because i've known some tough hombres and pain wouldhumble them, i consider myself strong but i've seen men i consider stronger break down. there is no solution to pain like that, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

rednblue said:

1Sasha said:

JMO but I think he was swirling in an abyss - his career, his love life, his emotional pain, his physical pain, his addiction. I still believe there was something other than "simply" addiction - some other illness or affliction. AOA, to me, was his goodbye letter. He was putting his affairs in order the last two years and it got to a point where he was done. He wasn't supposed to survive Moline - at least in his mind - the plane could be landed soon enough, before he died? The NARCAN would bring him back - two hits? Then he woke up, the world knew, and everything fell apart. Take your belongings out of PP, go on vacation to see your family down south, leave me alone and unprotected by security ... Just too much of a confluence of events for me.

1Sasha, I agree with many of your impressions

disch said:

I haven't read a lot about how common/unusual for him to be overnight at PP alone with no security. Kirk did say that the electronic security system had been off since pre-2009, so the "no security" thing might have been pretty typical.

-

On the night of 4/20-21, the time between when Meron/Kirk left and when the arrived the next day was 12 hours or so. So not a hugely long period of time.

Interesting. That was the time when he ditched Dr D, the drug dealer. Instead, from that moment on he relied on courier deliveries.

[Edited 5/23/18 6:19am]

Strawberrylova123 said:

PeteSilas said:

as i said when the investigation first came out, we'll be going around in circles still more. none of it really makes sense, that's where I believe some other illness comes in the picture really. I don't see how a guy who could deny himself rest, sleep, food, would be so helpless when it came to a drug, i think he knew exactly what he was doing and why. I just don't know though, i wake up everyday thinking different.

Chronic pain is an illness, but people on here want to give him other illnesses besides chronic pain

Exactly !

-

Why can't people (or worse, won't) just understand what's been clear all along ?

I stick with the 'official' conclusions from the investigations.

I will not and never pretend that I know or see more in all this.

Even if, and only if, there is anothor explanation out there, please, leave it up to the official investigators and science and all that.

And trust time, more than yourself !

Time will always tell.

Vannormal said:

PeteSilas said:

no lie, i felt too good, real good and my own mind told me "danger" and i stopped. same reason i stopped taking headache pills after P died, after he died i just figured "a headache won't kill me, drugs will" and i tossed em out the window. however, unfortunately, medication can be helpful and necessary which is something that we have to have discretion with and what can we do when it's the corrupt doctors who turn out to be the pushers? fuck em all.

Interesting. But how do you know when you 'tossed em out the window' they didn't hit someone killing them? It wouldn't be dissimilar to Prince nearly pissing on you and Laura blaming you for getting in the way

peggyon said:

1Sasha said:

JMO but I think he was swirling in an abyss - his career, his love life, his emotional pain, his physical pain, his addiction. I still believe there was something other than "simply" addiction - some other illness or affliction. AOA, to me, was his goodbye letter. He was putting his affairs in order the last two years and it got to a point where he was done. He wasn't supposed to survive Moline - at least in his mind - the plane could be landed soon enough, before he died? The NARCAN would bring him back - two hits? Then he woke up, the world knew, and everything fell apart. Take your belongings out of PP, go on vacation to see your family down south, leave me alone and unprotected by security ... Just too much of a confluence of events for me.

1Sasha, I agree with many of your impressions

I Concur....

Prince's face & body looked perfect laying in front of the elevator. He did not look like a man that was suffering from any distress or pain from anything. He looked at peace and asleep.He looked like an angel not of this earth. It gave me peace, closure, and tranquility.

[Edited 5/23/18 9:18am]

fortuneandserendipity said:

PeteSilas said:

no lie, i felt too good, real good and my own mind told me "danger" and i stopped. same reason i stopped taking headache pills after P died, after he died i just figured "a headache won't kill me, drugs will" and i tossed em out the window. however, unfortunately, medication can be helpful and necessary which is something that we have to have discretion with and what can we do when it's the corrupt doctors who turn out to be the pushers? fuck em all.

Interesting. But how do you know when you 'tossed em out the window' they didn't hit someone killing them? It wouldn't be dissimilar to Prince nearly pissing on you and Laura blaming you for getting in the way

it is seattle, i threw them out when i was driving, they'd be ground into dust in no time or dissolved in the rain, don't be silly. And as for laura, as Prince once said to a band member "even when I'm wrong I'm right" that's dominatrix laura, we miss you laura honey.

PeteSilas said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Interesting. But how do you know when you 'tossed em out the window' they didn't hit someone killing them? It wouldn't be dissimilar to Prince nearly pissing on you and Laura blaming you for getting in the way

it is seattle, i threw them out when i was driving, they'd be ground into dust in no time or dissolved in the rain, don't be silly. And as for laura, as Prince once said to a band member "even when I'm wrong I'm right" that's dominatrix laura, we miss you laura honey.

No Pete, YOU miss her.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

PeteSilas said:

it is seattle, i threw them out when i was driving, they'd be ground into dust in no time or dissolved in the rain, don't be silly. And as for laura, as Prince once said to a band member "even when I'm wrong I'm right" that's dominatrix laura, we miss you laura honey.

No Pete, YOU miss her.

that's what i said, we miss her!!!

After finally reading Judith Hill's transcript, she does descibe Prince being in a darker/deprerssed manner. She states that he made remarks about if he was not there for the summer concerts to make sure she will be there (paraphrasing). Even the detective asked about suicisde or depression, Judith stated 50/50. Interesting.

So, Prince did not use a credit card. We now know he used cash. So, I would assume it would have been difficult for Prince to purchase pills online with out a credit card. Paypal type of accounts could be traced to banks, that would have left some trail. Prince could have gave cash to someone in his inner circle to procure the pills, or Prince could have sent cash via fedex/ups to receive the pills in the same manner.

Cash is hard to trace, but if Prince paid via an account, there would be some odd transactions that may stand out, on a pattern (ie every 2 months or 4 months).

Judith said he took 2 pills from the bayer bottle on the plane. Prince blames the narcan for his condition. She also said Prince told her he mixed the pills. He never said percocets, only what was in the bayer. We do not know if Prince had fentanyl in his system in Moline, no bloodwork was done per Prince. Could he have taken 1 pill from the aleve bottle (no fentanyl) and 1 from the bayer (fentanyl) and this caused the od?

Was there any confirmation that the black bag only had the bayer bottle and not any other bottles during the Moline flight?

PeteSilas said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

No Pete, YOU miss her.

that's what i said, we miss her!!!

[Edited 5/23/18 14:12pm]

Mumio said:

PeteSilas said:

that's what i said, we miss her!!!

[Edited 5/23/18 14:12pm]

see? they's others onboard the laura train. Laura baby!!! get a new id and come back.

PeteSilas said:

kmama07 said:

PeteSilas said:

see? they's others onboard the laura train. Laura baby!!! get a new id and come back.

f I have to admit, I've been wondering about her opinion of the transcripts that were released.

some here have went to spy on her over at lipstick alley but i haven't. I can't look on there for some reason without registering, and i'll be damned if i register on that dump.