rogifan said:

Pretty soon we’ll have part 10 with comments no different than part 1-9.

Because we have almost zero information and can only speculate with what we have. They don't say if it was one pill he took and if it was, did he know what was in it? Well, they say he didn't know because the pills were wrong labled (accident). What caused the OD in Moline? Percocet or was it also Fentanyl? If it was, how long will it be in his system? Did it have an influence on the high level that was found or wouldn't it play a role?

206Michelle said:

CDinwiddie said:

Not sure if anyone has already posted this, and no, I'm not going to check first before I share this...

Check Apollonia Kotero's FB page. She posted the following comment "Because he was killed. He wanted to live. Anyone who says the contrary , should be investigated." when linking to the Yahoo story about the amount the toxicology results: https://www.yahoo.com/new...rc=fauxdal

Thought this group would find her opinion interesting.

This is just an educated guess as I do not know Apples. Perhaps she is in denial and would rather believe that someone murdered him instead of coming to terms with the reality that all of the evidence indicates Prince died from a self-administered accidental overdose.

ThatWhiteDude said:

purplegirl00 said:

Exactly. He tried it a week earlier with a different drug and the Narcan brought him back.

Then why would he wait six days if he really wanted to die?

Good question. Perhaps he assured everyone he was okay and needed to give a few days for people to calm down and get out of his hair.

purplegirl00 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Then why would he wait six days if he really wanted to die?

Good question. Perhaps he assured everyone he was okay and needed to give a few days for people to calm down and get out of his hair.

Six days aren't much to calm people down and telling them to leave him alone would be a huge red flag if some people would've been concerned about a possible suicide. I think he build up tolerance and just thought: "One more pill won't hurt" without knowing what was in it and that it was very toxic.

It's true we dont know the answers to every question, but we probably won't ever, and as the years pass it makes less and less of a difference.

-

As for your questions below: Whatever opioid caused his OD April 15 would have definitely been out of his system by April 21. No opioid stays in the body that long.

ThatWhiteDude said:

rogifan said:

Pretty soon we’ll have part 10 with comments no different than part 1-9.

Because we have almost zero information and can only speculate with what we have. They don't say if it was one pill he took and if it was, did he know what was in it? Well, they say he didn't know because the pills were wrong labled (accident). What caused the OD in Moline? Percocet or was it also Fentanyl? If it was, how long will it be in his system? Did it have an influence on the high level that was found or wouldn't it play a role?

disch said:

It's true we dont know the answers to every question, but we probably won't ever, and as the years pass it makes less and less of a difference.

-

As for your questions below: Whatever opioid caused his OD April 15 would have definitely been out of his system by April 21. No opioid stays in the body that long.

ThatWhiteDude said:

Because we have almost zero information and can only speculate with what we have. They don't say if it was one pill he took and if it was, did he know what was in it? Well, they say he didn't know because the pills were wrong labled (accident). What caused the OD in Moline? Percocet or was it also Fentanyl? If it was, how long will it be in his system? Did it have an influence on the high level that was found or wouldn't it play a role?

Thanks for clearing that up!

purplegirl00 said:

If Prince chose to intentionally overdose why would he do so on a plane with at least two other people present? Why not wait and just administer the dose at home in privacy?

If he intended to suicide the second time why was he found in an elevator? Why not simply go to bed and/or leave a note?

In addition, Prince could have chosen to cancel the rescheduled concerts and was under no pressure to host a party at Paisley the Sunday before his passing.

These are not the likely actions of someone who planned to die. In fact, the entire scene and tragedy speaks to there being no planning at all.

ThatWhiteDude said:

purplegirl00 said:

Good question. Perhaps he assured everyone he was okay and needed to give a few days for people to calm down and get out of his hair.

Six days aren't much to calm people down and telling them to leave him alone would be a huge red flag if some people would've been concerned about a possible suicide. I think he build up tolerance and just thought: "One more pill won't hurt" without knowing what was in it and that it was very toxic.

He had a party at PP the day after the plane incident and was trying to behave as normal as possible. However, he did tell party goers wishing him well, to "wait a few days before wasting prayers" or something like that. IIRC, he sent Kirk home the night of the 20th after he dropped him off from the pharmacy, and then there is the issue of the cameras being turned off and/or removed- which I know has been discussed ad nauseum here. Until it is PROVEN that Prince was held down and had pills shoved down his throat, I will always believe Prince was responsible for himself and made his own decision.

ThatWhiteDude said:

And at what point does someone resign themselves to the fact we will probably (hopefully) never know all these details?

purplegirl00 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Six days aren't much to calm people down and telling them to leave him alone would be a huge red flag if some people would've been concerned about a possible suicide. I think he build up tolerance and just thought: "One more pill won't hurt" without knowing what was in it and that it was very toxic.

He had a party at PP the day after the plane incident and was trying to behave as normal as possible. However, he did tell party goers wishing him well, to "wait a few days before wasting prayers" or something like that. IIRC, he sent Kirk home the night of the 20th after he dropped him off from the pharmacy, and then there is the issue of the cameras being turned off and/or removed- which I know has been discussed ad nauseum here. Until it is PROVEN that Prince was held down and had pills shoved down his throat, I will always believe Prince was responsible for himself and made his own decision.

Why would the cameras be on if he was alone? There's no reason to keep 'em on. And the thing he said simply meant that he is fine, it's just a saying, nothing more. Like the comment above me said: He didn't have to do the concert at PP to asure anyone that he's fine, infact, I believe that this is what some people were concerned about, that he's showing up at a party so quick after the incident

rogifan said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Because we have almost zero information and can only speculate with what we have. They don't say if it was one pill he took and if it was, did he know what was in it? Well, they say he didn't know because the pills were wrong labled (accident). What caused the OD in Moline? Percocet or was it also Fentanyl? If it was, how long will it be in his system? Did it have an influence on the high level that was found or wouldn't it play a role?

And at what point does someone resign themselves to the fact we will probably (hopefully) never know all these details?

I don't want to know all the details.

OperatingThetan said:

purplegirl00 said:

Exactly. He tried it a week earlier with a different drug and the Narcan brought him back.

If Prince chose to intentionally overdose why would he do so on a plane with at least two other people present? Why not wait and just administer the dose at home in privacy? If he intended to suicide the second time why was he found in an elevator? Why not simply go to bed and/or leave a note? In addition, Prince could have chosen to cancel the rescheduled concerts and was under no pressure to host a party at Paisley the Sunday before his passing. These are not the likely actions of someone who planned to die. In fact, the entire scene and tragedy speaks to there being no planning at all.

Good points but it may have all boiled down to timing with the first try. On the plane, up a few thousand feet in the air, he may have assumed no one would be able to save him. He didn't plan on the plane landing and having the Narcan. As I said in the other post, he sent people home the night of the 20th and either had security cameras turned off or removed altogether (I haven't followed all the posts about it). He was alone at PP and that was the best way to insure success. I believe the elevator and the clothes on backwards have spiritual or artistic significance. I'm not sure which or both, but this is Prince we're talking about.

ThatWhiteDude said:

If it was fentanyl in Moline (and the quick reaction says it was), it wouldn't have shown up in the 4/20 blood tests.
.
Hopefully, blood was drawn in Moline and tested. That's not been leaked BUT NOW the heirs'attorneys have been granted that info.
.
ALSO, don't forget that drugs are detected through hair samples. The big ol afro held many secrets. They can actually cut hair into tiny segments, test, and get a timeline of use.
.
[Edited 3/28/18 9:43am]

"Prince's family receives autopsy reports"

By Mark Olson, CHanhassen Villager

March 22, 2018

Source: http://www.swnewsmedia.co...61a1e.html

.

Excerpts:

'On March 22, Anoka County District Court ordered the release of rock star Prince’s autopsy reports by the Midwest Medical Examiner to his family’s attorney, according to a press release from the Carver County Attorney’s Office.

.

On March 28, Carver County Attorney Mark Metz planned to be in Carver County District Court to “address what, if any, investigative reports of the Carver County Sheriff’s Office will be disclosed to the Schwebel, Goetz and Sieben Law Firm under a protective order,” the release stated.

.

The Anoka court imposed a protective order on the release of the autopsy reports, stating that: “The Plaintiff (Schwebel, Goetz and Sieben Law Firm) agrees that if the report is released to Plaintiff’s counsel, Plaintiff’s counsel will not re-release any of the information contained within the medical examiner data received from the Midwest Medical Examiner’s Office to any third party, except its client.'

Today's news:
the judge granted ONLY the Moline records and to the family attorneys ONLY.
They cannot copy, photograph, etc.
Keep up.
http://m.startribune.com/...478162593/
[Edited 3/28/18 9:51am]

purplegirl00 said:

OperatingThetan said:

purplegirl00 said: If Prince chose to intentionally overdose why would he do so on a plane with at least two other people present? Why not wait and just administer the dose at home in privacy? If he intended to suicide the second time why was he found in an elevator? Why not simply go to bed and/or leave a note? In addition, Prince could have chosen to cancel the rescheduled concerts and was under no pressure to host a party at Paisley the Sunday before his passing. These are not the likely actions of someone who planned to die. In fact, the entire scene and tragedy speaks to there being no planning at all.

Good points but it may have all boiled down to timing with the first try. On the plane, up a few thousand feet in the air, he may have assumed no one would be able to save him. He didn't plan on the plane landing and having the Narcan. As I said in the other post, he sent people home the night of the 20th and either had security cameras turned off or removed altogether (I haven't followed all the posts about it). He was alone at PP and that was the best way to insure success. I believe the elevator and the clothes on backwards have spiritual or artistic significance. I'm not sure which or both, but this is Prince we're talking about.

But Judith said he told her he was fighting for his life. And I don't believe he'd do it when there are people with him who could be traumatized because they couldn't save him (they saved him, but what if it would've been too late?). Let alone being in eyeshot while he decided to end it all. You know what I mean? People who chose this way want to go without witnesses, it's not like he threw himself infront of a train.

laytonian said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Because we have almost zero information and can only speculate with what we have. They don't say if it was one pill he took and if it was, did he know what was in it? Well, they say he didn't know because the pills were wrong labled (accident). What caused the OD in Moline? Percocet or was it also Fentanyl? If it was, how long will it be in his system? Did it have an influence on the high level that was found or wouldn't it play a role?

If it was fentanyl in Moline (and the quick reaction says it was), it wouldn't have shown up in the 4/20 blood tests. . Hopefully, blood was drawn in Moline and tested. That's not been leaked BUT NOW the heirs'attorneys have been granted that info. . ALSO, don't forget that drugs are detected through hair samples. The big ol afro held many secrets. They can actually cut hair into tiny segments, test, and get a timeline of use. . [Edited 3/28/18 9:43am]

You think they leak the info or would they keep it a secret? I mean the info from Moline.

laytonian said:

Today's news: the judge granted ONLY the Moline records and to the family attorneys ONLY. They cannot copy, photograph, etc. Keep up. http://m.startribune.com/...478162593/ [Edited 3/28/18 9:51am]

The 03/23/2018 article from the Chanhassen Villager is relevant because it mentions today's date:

'On March 28, Carver County Attorney Mark Metz planned to be in Carver County District Court to “address what, if any, investigative reports of the Carver County Sheriff’s Office will be disclosed to the Schwebel, Goetz and Sieben Law Firm under a protective order,” the release stated.'

.

Of note from today's Star-Tribune article is the article's last sentence:

"Once the case is closed, all investigative records become public under state law."

[Edited 3/28/18 10:04am]

ThatWhiteDude said:

purplegirl00 said:

Good points but it may have all boiled down to timing with the first try. On the plane, up a few thousand feet in the air, he may have assumed no one would be able to save him. He didn't plan on the plane landing and having the Narcan. As I said in the other post, he sent people home the night of the 20th and either had security cameras turned off or removed altogether (I haven't followed all the posts about it). He was alone at PP and that was the best way to insure success. I believe the elevator and the clothes on backwards have spiritual or artistic significance. I'm not sure which or both, but this is Prince we're talking about.

But Judith said he told her he was fighting for his life. And I don't believe he'd do it when there are people with him who could be traumatized because they couldn't save him (they saved him, but what if it would've been too late?). Let alone being in eyeshot while he decided to end it all. You know what I mean? People who chose this way want to go without witnesses, it's not like he threw himself infront of a train.

I hear what you are saying and I agree that Prince wouldn't have wanted anyone to be traumatized over his death, but I still feel like he planned and his timing was off or miscalculated the first time. Then overdosing twice in a week with the second time being with such a high concentrated amount- enough to kill him 8000 times over just doesn't sound accidental or homicidal at all to me but his own intention.

purplegirl00 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

But Judith said he told her he was fighting for his life. And I don't believe he'd do it when there are people with him who could be traumatized because they couldn't save him (they saved him, but what if it would've been too late?). Let alone being in eyeshot while he decided to end it all. You know what I mean? People who chose this way want to go without witnesses, it's not like he threw himself infront of a train.

I hear what you are saying and I agree that Prince wouldn't have wanted anyone to be traumatized over his death, but I still feel like he planned and his timing was off or miscalculated the first time. Then overdosing twice in a week with the second time being with such a high concentrated amount- enough to kill him 8000 times over just doesn't sound accidental or homicidal at all to me but his own intention.

The problem with your theory is, that it makes no sense, people who chose this way of suicide do it in private, not in public, it's an initmate moment for the victims.

And if he didn't want people to be worried, why would he kill himself while Kirk and Judith were with him? He could've waited until he got home, send Kirk home and do it then.

purplegirl00 said:

OperatingThetan said:

purplegirl00 said: If Prince chose to intentionally overdose why would he do so on a plane with at least two other people present? Why not wait and just administer the dose at home in privacy? If he intended to suicide the second time why was he found in an elevator? Why not simply go to bed and/or leave a note? In addition, Prince could have chosen to cancel the rescheduled concerts and was under no pressure to host a party at Paisley the Sunday before his passing. These are not the likely actions of someone who planned to die. In fact, the entire scene and tragedy speaks to there being no planning at all.

Good points but it may have all boiled down to timing with the first try. On the plane, up a few thousand feet in the air, he may have assumed no one would be able to save him. He didn't plan on the plane landing and having the Narcan. As I said in the other post, he sent people home the night of the 20th and either had security cameras turned off or removed altogether (I haven't followed all the posts about it). He was alone at PP and that was the best way to insure success. I believe the elevator and the clothes on backwards have spiritual or artistic significance. I'm not sure which or both, but this is Prince we're talking about.

Exactly. He planned to be found in inside out backwards plain black clothes he'd been wearing all day? Sounds just like him. NOT.

The fact that PRINCE was cremated so quickly shows that someone in the family knew the issues that were going on, regardless of what it was. Also everything is sealed we are not going to know IF something else was going on, it really is just a guess at this point, the only person that knows is dead.

Also interesting was the way he was found not just in an elevator, but also with his clothing inside out, now he may have literally known he overdid it and was running out for help or maybe just air, since the thing that fentayl does it kill you by taking away your oxygen. Also for the first incident it is obvious now that PRINCE was performing while on the drug itself, because of the timeline and how long this takes he uses prior and after the show.

purplegirl00 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

But Judith said he told her he was fighting for his life. And I don't believe he'd do it when there are people with him who could be traumatized because they couldn't save him (they saved him, but what if it would've been too late?). Let alone being in eyeshot while he decided to end it all. You know what I mean? People who chose this way want to go without witnesses, it's not like he threw himself infront of a train.

I hear what you are saying and I agree that Prince wouldn't have wanted anyone to be traumatized over his death, but I still feel like he planned and his timing was off or miscalculated the first time. Then overdosing twice in a week with the second time being with such a high concentrated amount- enough to kill him 8000 times over just doesn't sound accidental or homicidal at all to me but his own intention.

I'm not aware of any evidence indicating that he knew that the substance he injested, which caused his death, was laced with fentanyl. At this time, the evidence strongly supports that Prince died via accidental fentanyl overdose, not suicide or homicide.

ThatWhiteDude said:

purplegirl00 said:

I hear what you are saying and I agree that Prince wouldn't have wanted anyone to be traumatized over his death, but I still feel like he planned and his timing was off or miscalculated the first time. Then overdosing twice in a week with the second time being with such a high concentrated amount- enough to kill him 8000 times over just doesn't sound accidental or homicidal at all to me but his own intention.

The problem with your theory is, that it makes no sense, people who chose this way of suicide do it in private, not in public, it's an initmate moment for the victims.

And if he didn't want people to be worried, why would he kill himself while Kirk and Judith were with him? He could've waited until he got home, send Kirk home and do it then.

It makes sense if his timing was off- whether it was that he thought at thousands of feet in the air he could not be saved or if he thought he wouldn't go out until the plane arrived in MN, something in the planning went wrong. After the unsuccessful attempt, people would hover and worry so he waited for things to simmer down. He gave them assurances, behaved as normal as possible, and sent people home on 20th. Then he went about it a different way for the second try.

purplegirl00 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

The problem with your theory is, that it makes no sense, people who chose this way of suicide do it in private, not in public, it's an initmate moment for the victims.

And if he didn't want people to be worried, why would he kill himself while Kirk and Judith were with him? He could've waited until he got home, send Kirk home and do it then.

It makes sense if his timing was off- whether it was that he thought at thousands of feet in the air he could not be saved or if he thought he wouldn't go out until the plane arrived in MN, something in the planning went wrong. After the unsuccessful attempt, people would hover and worry so he waited for things to simmer down. He gave them assurances, behaved as normal as possible, and sent people home on 20th. Then he went about it a different way for the second try.

Again, it's an intimate suicide, not a public one. If he wanted to go this way, he would've waited until he got home. He sure knew that something could go wrong with the timing, I don't think he would've taken that risk and as we know, he survived this "attempt". Have you ever heard of a suicide via pills where the person collapsed infront of people?

Unfortunately the problem is that you can make a case for any of the scenarios. Accidental overdose, suicide or murder. I think with suicide what people have a hard time with is the fact that he OD'd a week earlier - yet still took one of the pills. There were also reports that he was depressed and then of course his comments about not wasting any prayers. There was also a comment he made to Tam'ron Hall after she mentioned his music was everywhere about being "eveywhere, yet nowhere at the same time". Not to mention his recent songs and P&M concerts were sadder and more meloncoly. Lyrics such as "so many reasons why I dont' belong here" etc... As for murder, you don't know if the pills were purposely planted; how they got into his possession.

206Michelle said:

purplegirl00 said:

I hear what you are saying and I agree that Prince wouldn't have wanted anyone to be traumatized over his death, but I still feel like he planned and his timing was off or miscalculated the first time. Then overdosing twice in a week with the second time being with such a high concentrated amount- enough to kill him 8000 times over just doesn't sound accidental or homicidal at all to me but his own intention.

I'm not aware of any evidence indicating that he knew that the substance he injested, which caused his death, was laced with fentanyl. At this time, the evidence strongly supports that Prince died via accidental fentanyl overdose, not suicide or homicide.

Maybe I missed it, but I have not seen anything solid suggesting he didn't know.

I have stayed largely out of these types of threads (about his death) due to going around in circles. FI still maintain he made a decision and until iron clad proof of the otherwise comes out, that's where I'll stay. I'm out.. peace.

WeDaBest said:

Unfortunately the problem is that you can make a case for any of the scenarios. Accidental overdose, suicide or murder. I think with suicide what people have a hard time with is the fact that he OD'd a week earlier - yet still took one of the pills. There were also reports that he was depressed and then of course his comments about not wasting any prayers. There was also a comment he made to Tam'ron Hall after she mentioned his music was everywhere about being "eveywhere, yet nowhere at the same time". Not to mention his recent songs and P&M concerts were sadder and more meloncoly. Lyrics such as "so many reasons why I dont' belong here" etc... As for murder, you don't know if the pills were purposely planted; how they got into his possession.

Especially when one only focuses on a few things and dismisses other things.

You might be able to make a case, but the medical examiner looked at all available info (most of which we have no access to) and ruled an accident. People can think she was wrong for whatever reason, but I think her judgment still needs to be taken into account.

WeDaBest said:

Unfortunately the problem is that you can make a case for any of the scenarios. Accidental overdose, suicide or murder. I think with suicide what people have a hard time with is the fact that he OD'd a week earlier - yet still took one of the pills. There were also reports that he was depressed and then of course his comments about not wasting any prayers. There was also a comment he made to Tam'ron Hall after she mentioned his music was everywhere about being "eveywhere, yet nowhere at the same time". Not to mention his recent songs and P&M concerts were sadder and more meloncoly. Lyrics such as "so many reasons why I dont' belong here" etc... As for murder, you don't know if the pills were purposely planted; how they got into his possession.

disch said:

You might be able to make a case, but the medical examiner looked at all available info (most of which we have no access to) and ruled an accident. People can think she was wrong for whatever reason, but I think her judgment still needs to be taken into account.

WeDaBest said:

Unfortunately the problem is that you can make a case for any of the scenarios. Accidental overdose, suicide or murder. I think with suicide what people have a hard time with is the fact that he OD'd a week earlier - yet still took one of the pills. There were also reports that he was depressed and then of course his comments about not wasting any prayers. There was also a comment he made to Tam'ron Hall after she mentioned his music was everywhere about being "eveywhere, yet nowhere at the same time". Not to mention his recent songs and P&M concerts were sadder and more meloncoly. Lyrics such as "so many reasons why I dont' belong here" etc... As for murder, you don't know if the pills were purposely planted; how they got into his possession.

The ME would not be able to determine where he got the pills from though. That's something the investigators would need to look more closely at and to see what was going on in his life to determine whether there was foul play or not.