Not virtuosic, technically, but I think he had terrific feel on the piano.

Be sure to follow the first link through to this one https://theconversation.c...usic-58270

It is more about his voice and singing styles though his guitar playing is mentioned. Probably you've all read it. Here is an excerpt--

Prince applies a range of vocal styles to this performance, often in quick succession. The first time he sings the chorus line, his voice drifts upwards, using melisma to break the word “rain” into fluttering fragments. On the repetition of the line, the voice moves downward to a smoother, mellower register, while the third iteration sinks to a deep, Elvis-like shudder. For the pay-off line, Prince swoops back to falsetto for the word “see”, slightly elongating the word for effect and thus changing the rhythmic shape of the chorus’s resolution as originally sung.

Then there is the guitar, underlining and extending every emotional nuance of the song, leaping between the singer’s lines, tearing away but always returning, always simultaneously in and out of control. Prince starts to solo immediately after delivering the chorus, his guitar becoming the voice of the song and making any further verses unnecessary. As in much gospel music, this playing seems to signal transcendence of the word, as though the voice cannot complete its work alone and must be extended through other voices or, as here, the prosthetic extension of the guitar’s ecstatic screech.

But Prince is not done with singing just yet. As he reigns in the flash and danger of his guitar he returns to the microphone to deliver one of the song’s most catchy elements, the wordless vocal melody that, in other concerts, the artist would encourage his audience to sing instead of him. At this point, Prince is essentially yodelling, fixing on to that strange, affective vocal realm associated with Swiss mountaineers and American singing cowboys.

Then this from the Journal of African American Studies (the issue all about Prince published in September) ...global music culture...that is impact.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12111-017-9370-8

The abstract--

Prince’s unparalleled, innovative musical style remains widely revered by his worldwide audience in the wake of his death less than two years ago. Since the late twentieth century, many scholars have used European critical theory to examine Prince’s musical multidimensionality. These important analyses help us understand Prince’s music and performativity in new ways but repeatedly ignore the cultural roots of his music. Indeed, many critical discussions focus on his performance of ambiguous sexualities and sartorial strategies without addressing how Prince’s understanding of his Blackness played a crucial role in his creative practice and theatricality. I contend that exploring Prince’s dynamic oeuvre through interpretive lenses of radical black theory is a productive space for understanding his performance of lyrical and musical liminality, his self-determination in the music business, and his commitment to using his music for racial uplift. Prince’s creative practices were linked to his covert, but avid, support of social justice initiatives that support black humanity. Framing my analysis through Prince’s composition “Black Muse” from his final studio album, I explain how “Black Muse” provides lyrical and musical evidence of Prince’s political thought and deployment of counter narratives. I put “Black Muse” in conversation with “Baltimore,” “Resolution,” and “Planet Earth,” unapologetically activist songs written by Prince that discuss police brutality, warmongering, and climate change. I discuss how Prince’s strategic use of musical liminality in “Lady Cabdriver” obscures his political diatribes through a layer of sonic salacity. Combining close musical analysis with Black theoretical thought that explores Prince’s definitions of Black Muse, I explore Prince’s performances of blues hybridity, his tireless effort in repositioning his relationship with the music industry, and his mission to uplift his people. While Prince had muses, who were both Black and white, Prince’s ultimate creative muse was the Black community and the black experience itself. Prince scholars can benefit from exploring and utilizing various black performance theories to better understand and explain his contribution to global music culture.

rogifan said:

Genesia said:

I loved Prince's piano playing. But let's face it, Van Cliburn, Vladimir Horowitz or Ludwig van Beethoven he was not.

Do people compare Elton John and Billy Joel to classical greats? I think Prince is as good or better than either of them. Scottie Baldwin once said if the had to rank Prince by instrument he’d rank piano first guitar second.

Elton John has composed scores for full-blown musicals and Billy Joel released a classical album for piano and orchestra called Fantasies & Delusions in 2003. I own it and Prince could never compose something of that calibre, his field is pop music with bits of r&b, funk and rock, even his forays into jazz were simplistic at best. But he's better than the average pop musician, I guess, which is really the measuring stick here, just like he was an average guitarist IMO, but better than other pop stars, not true guitarists.

Musician9 said:

rogifan said:

Genesia said: Do people compare Elton John and Billy Joel to classical greats? I think Prince is as good or better than either of them. Scottie Baldwin once said if the had to rank Prince by instrument he’d rank piano first guitar second.

Elton John has composed scores for full-blown musicals and Billy Joel released a classical album for piano and orchestra called Fantasies & Delusions in 2003. I own it and Prince could never compose something of that calibre, his field is pop music with bits of r&b, funk and rock, even his forays into jazz were simplistic at best. But he's better than the average pop musician, I guess, which is really the measuring stick here, just like he was an average guitarist IMO, but better than other pop stars, not true guitarists.

Your opinion means shit here mostly because you come across as a arrogant music snob who thinks everybody is wrong (Even his peers) but yourself. @Musician9

[Edited 3/18/18 18:04pm]

Musician9 said:

rogifan said:

Musician9 said:

Elton John has composed scores for full-blown musicals and Billy Joel released a classical album for piano and orchestra called Fantasies & Delusions in 2003. I own it and Prince could never compose something of that calibre, his field is pop music with bits of r&b, funk and rock, even his forays into jazz were simplistic at best. But he's better than the average pop musician, I guess, which is really the measuring stick here, just like he was an average guitarist IMO, but better than other pop stars, not true guitarists.

Not better than true guitarists.

Rogifan this guy is a troll, probably a failed musician a no body in the world of music. You can see the jealousy in some of his posts. If you credit Prince with being even good at something he will accuse you idol worship for Prince. Probably thinks he is also a average bass player, dancer, singer, writer and producer. Nothing this guy says is worth replying too. He has lost all credit with saying Prince is a average guitar player. PLEASE! When it comes to Princes's guitar playing i will only listen to what his guitar playing peers say, which i have found mostly positive. I have also seen many great guitar players live and Prince was one of the best. Oh no i will be accused of idol worshiping Prince. Damn.

[Edited 3/18/18 21:06pm]

Guitarhero said:

rogifan said:

Musician9 said: Not better than true guitarists.

Rogifan this guy is a troll, probably a failed musician a no body in the world of music. You can see the jealousy in some of his posts. If you credit Prince with being even good at something he will accuse you idol worship for Prince. Probably thinks he is also a average bass player, dancer, singer, writer and producer. Nothing this guy says is worth replying too. He has lost all credit with saying Prince is a average guitar player. PLEASE! When it comes to Princes's guitar playing i will only listen to what his guitar playing peers say, which i have found mostly positive. I have also seen many great guitar players live and Prince was one of the best. Oh no i will be accused of idol worshiping Prince. Damn.

[Edited 3/18/18 21:06pm]

Prove me wrong, wannabe, where's P's piano concerto recorded or otherwise? I'll wait.........

Musician9 said:

rogifan said:

Genesia said: Do people compare Elton John and Billy Joel to classical greats? I think Prince is as good or better than either of them. Scottie Baldwin once said if the had to rank Prince by instrument he’d rank piano first guitar second.

Elton John has composed scores for full-blown musicals and Billy Joel released a classical album for piano and orchestra called Fantasies & Delusions in 2003. I own it and Prince could never compose something of that calibre, his field is pop music with bits of r&b, funk and rock, even his forays into jazz were simplistic at best. But he's better than the average pop musician, I guess, which is really the measuring stick here, just like he was an average guitarist IMO, but better than other pop stars, not true guitarists.

lol go trade licks with Prince and come back and tell us how average he was.

My goodness, what a shit comment lol. Not even going to address it.

Guitarhero said:

Musician9 said:

Elton John has composed scores for full-blown musicals and Billy Joel released a classical album for piano and orchestra called Fantasies & Delusions in 2003. I own it and Prince could never compose something of that calibre, his field is pop music with bits of r&b, funk and rock, even his forays into jazz were simplistic at best. But he's better than the average pop musician, I guess, which is really the measuring stick here, just like he was an average guitarist IMO, but better than other pop stars, not true guitarists.

Your opinion means shit here mostly because you come across as a arrogant music snob who thinks everybody is wrong (Even his peers) but yourself. @Musician9

[Edited 3/18/18 18:04pm]

some musicians always come out on these kinds of threads, i'm a musician but i'll say upfront, playing ability is my weak point. As far as Elton, he's damned good, his creative period was damned good in the 70's, billy joel is up there too, all three are top artists. As far as pianists they are better, sure, but overall, artistry, body of work, etc.., I think Prince is better, like i said, Prince is way better on keys than he has a right to be considering all the other things he did. Elton is good, so good that even Joel said he "kicks my ass on piano" which is saying something because billy is damned good too. but.., like i said, playing ability doesn't really mean that much, it's like beautiful women, there really are a dime a dozen, what makes a marilyn monroe or a sophia loren standout? who knows but some things are a dime a dozen, i've seen oodles of great musicians, most of them can't make a living off of music.

Can't remember what I was watching, but I kept my eyes on his hands and was really surprised that he didn't seem to be reaching beyond an octave. He really maximized what he did, though. He could make it sound as if he was playing more than he actually was, in my opinion.

The thing that makes the "technically" part hard to address, is that he wasn't trying to be a technical player in te sense you are asking, I think. He has a really interesting feel, but you'll rarely hear a long run of even notes like Renato did. I know Renato was not everyon's taste, but I'm using a comparison with "technically good" - Renato sounds like he practices with a metronome. But that can also have negative consequences.

It's kind of like when people call Prince's guitar solos "basic" or some nonsense because he doesn't cramm them full of gratuitous notes all the time. The mastery is very much in knowing when to use silence - where NOT to put the notes. And since that was very much one of Prince's hallmarks, perhaps this isn't the right question.

We know he had high musical standards, and he achieved the sound he set out to achieve. I'd say that's great technique - being able to realize the sound you have in your head.

He probably wasn;t as good as Elton John or Joel but he might have been had he focused primarily on the piano. Had prince lived and continued working mostly on piano for the next five years of his life he could have very easily been as good. Prince was a marvel at thriving and improving. He most definitely could have been as good as those fellows. Here are Elton john's words on Prince-- "The greatest performer I have ever seen. A true genius. Musically way ahead of any of us. Sang with him twice...".. Elton John could have just stopped at the 'greatest performer' description. The rest of the quote speaks volumes about his musical prowess and this quote coming from a piano player.

[Edited 3/19/18 0:38am]

[Edited 3/19/18 0:40am]

Musician9 said:

rogifan said:

Genesia said: Do people compare Elton John and Billy Joel to classical greats? I think Prince is as good or better than either of them. Scottie Baldwin once said if the had to rank Prince by instrument he’d rank piano first guitar second.

Elton John has composed scores for full-blown musicals and Billy Joel released a classical album for piano and orchestra called Fantasies & Delusions in 2003. I own it and Prince could never compose something of that calibre, his field is pop music with bits of r&b, funk and rock, even his forays into jazz were simplistic at best. But he's better than the average pop musician, I guess, which is really the measuring stick here, just like he was an average guitarist IMO, but better than other pop stars, not true guitarists.

Talking 'bout calibre - 'Future Soul Song' is up there with your favorite classical piece... its a symphony of one kind. ppl don't want to believe that because its not written for orchestra and other 'classical' terms.

'Average' pop musican don't write something like 'Anna Stesia' or 'I Hate U' or 'Everywhere' or 'The One' or 'Come'... should i continue?

deebee said:

Not virtuosic, technically, but I think he had terrific feel on the piano.

Any one who applies their mind and puts in the time can be a good technician

Just take a look at the hundreds of Aisan kids who start playing at 3 years old and are technically perfect by the time they are 10..

Go on youtube...evey second one is called a Prodigy...

But them "feels'

They come from some other place

and we will only remember the names of those with "the Feel"

I love Princes Feels..

His Lovesexy Piano set is just off the HOOK FEELS

Lovejunky said:

Musician9 said:

Guitarhero said:

Rogifan this guy is a troll, probably a failed musician a no body in the world of music. You can see the jealousy in some of his posts. If you credit Prince with being even good at something he will accuse you idol worship for Prince. Probably thinks he is also a average bass player, dancer, singer, writer and producer. Nothing this guy says is worth replying too. He has lost all credit with saying Prince is a average guitar player. PLEASE! When it comes to Princes's guitar playing i will only listen to what his guitar playing peers say, which i have found mostly positive. I have also seen many great guitar players live and Prince was one of the best. Oh no i will be accused of idol worshiping Prince. Damn.

[Edited 3/18/18 21:06pm]

Prove me wrong, wannabe, where's P's piano concerto recorded or otherwise? I'll wait.........

stpaisios said:

Genesia said:

I loved Prince's piano playing. But let's face it, Van Cliburn, Vladimir Horowitz or Ludwig van Beethoven he was not.

But let's face it comparing him to concert career pianists is not very smart, due 2 fact that they R mainly focused on one instrument & interpreters of other works - not essentially a composers - rarely arrangers and usually just virtuoso players.

Again - I answered the question that was asked, "Technically how good a pianist was Prince?" Whether he was solely a pianist or did other things is neither here nor there. The question concerns only his technical abilities on the piano.

Let's face it, it is not very smart to take issue with someone who answered a question when you have not.

Genesia said:

stpaisios said:

But let's face it comparing him to concert career pianists is not very smart, due 2 fact that they R mainly focused on one instrument & interpreters of other works - not essentially a composers - rarely arrangers and usually just virtuoso players.

Again - I answered the question that was asked, "Technically how good a pianist was Prince?" Whether he was solely a pianist or did other things is neither here nor there. The question concerns only his technical abilities on the piano.

Let's face it, it is not very smart to take issue with someone who answered a question when you have not.

for me, i have to think of all the other things he did because it's astounding. It's like watching mike Tyson in his prime when he had great power but not any greater than other heavyweights but he also had the fastest hands in heavyweight history, doesn't make sense.listening to the final shows and how great he was on keys considering all the things he did i just scratch my head and wonder when he found the time to get that good, he was also great at fusing the piano with his vocals. People are mentioning elton and billy but there are many great pianists who are as good or better, Jerry Lee Lewis was a motherfucker, Charlie Rich might arguably be better than anyone, Aretha Franklin was a child prodigy on the piano who was an amazing player as an adult, Leon Russell. Harmonically, though, i think Prince had a distinctive quirky sound of his own on keys, sounds jazzy, gospelly, but it sounds like he did like lisa did and hit extra notes not caring what kind of chord it would be so long as it worked. I don't care what anyone says, he was the best.

[Edited 3/19/18 13:25pm]

PeteSilas said:

I'm not a musician but he sounds pretty damned good to me, even if his piano/ballad songs aren't really my favorites. He seemed pretty versatile with his style on piano and ONA took me off guard wht how good it was. He ranged from the Elton John/Jerry Lee Lewis style on "The Max" to the delicacy of something like "Venus DeMilo" or "One Nite Alone", to the inter woven manner of a song like "Anna Stesia", where the keys are essential to the song but not entirely up front.

Prince was so good at so many different things. Was he the best guitarist, song writer, keyboard player, drummer or bass player? The best dancer? Lyricist? No. But did he grade an "A" in all those classes? Oh yes. I'm hard pressed to think of someone who could do all those things so well.

He was a lot like a chef to me and I look at the piano as just another ingredient.

Fuck me. I'm still not used to referring to him in the past tense.

Genesia said:

PeteSilas said:

for me, i have to think of all the other things he did because it's astounding. It's like watching mike Tyson in his prime when he had great power but not any greater than other heavyweights but he also had the fastest hands in heavyweight history, doesn't make sense.listening to the final shows and how great he was on keys considering all the things he did i just scratch my head and wonder when he found the time to get that good, he was also great at fusing the piano with his vocals. People are mentioning elton and billy but there are many great pianists who are as good or better, Jerry Lee Lewis was a motherfucker, Charlie Rich might arguably be better than anyone, Aretha Franklin was a child prodigy on the piano who was an amazing player as an adult, Leon Russell. Harmonically, though, i think Prince had a distinctive quirky sound of his own on keys, sounds jazzy, gospelly, but it sounds like he did like lisa did and hit extra notes not caring what kind of chord it would be so long as it worked. I don't care what anyone says, he was the best.

[Edited 3/19/18 13:25pm]

No one was talking to you.

blah blah yourself, i was on this before you was so backoff.

this is how good Prince was on the piano.

PeteSilas said:

Genesia said:

Again - I answered the question that was asked, "Technically how good a pianist was Prince?" Whether he was solely a pianist or did other things is neither here nor there. The question concerns only his technical abilities on the piano.

Let's face it, it is not very smart to take issue with someone who answered a question when you have not.

for me, i have to think of all the other things he did because it's astounding. It's like watching mike Tyson in his prime when he had great power but not any greater than other heavyweights but he also had the fastest hands in heavyweight history, doesn't make sense.listening to the final shows and how great he was on keys considering all the things he did i just scratch my head and wonder when he found the time to get that good, he was also great at fusing the piano with his vocals. People are mentioning elton and billy but there are many great pianists who are as good or better, Jerry Lee Lewis was a motherfucker, Charlie Rich might arguably be better than anyone, Aretha Franklin was a child prodigy on the piano who was an amazing player as an adult, Leon Russell. Harmonically, though, i think Prince had a distinctive quirky sound of his own on keys, sounds jazzy, gospelly, but it sounds like he did like lisa did and hit extra notes not caring what kind of chord it would be so long as it worked. I don't care what anyone says, he was the best.

[Edited 3/19/18 13:25pm]

"distinctive quirky sound of his own" - exactly. Beautifully put. I'm not a musician but there are some chord sequences and juxtapositions that don't appear in other people's music...not as frequently at least - I'm thinking that end of In A Large Room With No Light, for example, or Last December on The Rainbow Children. Just a beautiful composer.

stpaisios said:

Musician9 said:

Elton John has composed scores for full-blown musicals and Billy Joel released a classical album for piano and orchestra called Fantasies & Delusions in 2003. I own it and Prince could never compose something of that calibre, his field is pop music with bits of r&b, funk and rock, even his forays into jazz were simplistic at best. But he's better than the average pop musician, I guess, which is really the measuring stick here, just like he was an average guitarist IMO, but better than other pop stars, not true guitarists.

Talking 'bout calibre - 'Future Soul Song' is up there with your favorite classical piece... its a symphony of one kind. ppl don't want to believe that because its not written for orchestra and other 'classical' terms.

'Average' pop musican don't write something like 'Anna Stesia' or 'I Hate U' or 'Everywhere' or 'The One' or 'Come'... should i continue?

yes, you should continue, and also read the OP which talks about technical ability. The songs you listed are like nursery rhymes, Anna Stesia? Come on, you're joking, maybe not. But again, it's your opinion, like I have my opinion, but you attack me revealing that you're not a musician in the process. P has 2 types of fans, musicians and non-musicians, sorry if us musicians don't adhere to your pre-conceived notions of what is good or complex, or anything at all. And like all non-musician orgers you spew up the same ole responses like, you're a troll, why aren't you famous, he was the best ever, he's not a virtuoso because he did so many other things. I don't give a shit. IMO he was just a hard-working musician who deserves multiple kudos but mastered nothing, and why do you care so much? Is he your God, your father, your son, your family, your sugar daddy? I can't believe how offended you bunch feel when someone offers a different critique than yours for someone you'll never meet, know or care for you, strange. And to answer another schmuck on this thread, I can't trade licks with him, cos HE'S DEAD...

PeteSilas said:

Genesia said:

PeteSilas said:

for me, i have to think of all the other things he did because it's astounding. It's like watching mike Tyson in his prime when he had great power but not any greater than other heavyweights but he also had the fastest hands in heavyweight history, doesn't make sense.listening to the final shows and how great he was on keys considering all the things he did i just scratch my head and wonder when he found the time to get that good, he was also great at fusing the piano with his vocals. People are mentioning elton and billy but there are many great pianists who are as good or better, Jerry Lee Lewis was a motherfucker, Charlie Rich might arguably be better than anyone, Aretha Franklin was a child prodigy on the piano who was an amazing player as an adult, Leon Russell. Harmonically, though, i think Prince had a distinctive quirky sound of his own on keys, sounds jazzy, gospelly, but it sounds like he did like lisa did and hit extra notes not caring what kind of chord it would be so long as it worked. I don't care what anyone says, he was the best.

[Edited 3/19/18 13:25pm]

No one was talking to you.

blah blah yourself, i was on this before you was so backoff.

PeteSilas said:

did anyone see something, i thought i might have seen a post.

Genesia said:

PeteSilas said:

you right I usually pretend your posts don't exist

Oh, dear. That’s cut me to the quick. You poor thing, having to go through life rude and lame.

clearly some of y'all haven't been exposed to any great pianists.

.

Check out Herbie Hancock.

.

McCoy Tyner.

.

Art Tatum.

.

Bill Evans.

.

Dave Brubeck.

.

CHICK COREA.

.

Earl Hines.

.

Ramsey Lewis.

.

KEITH JARRETT

.

These are just a few folks who can (or could) play absolute CIRCLES around Prince. I mean, I love Prince -- but there is a tendency by "fams" to overestimate and over-elevate his musicianship.

.

I'd say he was a great pop keyboardist. But let's KEEP IT REAL. His harmonic conception didn't have near the complexity of the greats mentioned above.

see, that's why i hate these threads, yes i know jazz musicians can play a million notes a second, i know they can stack a ton of harmonies on, i'm not saying that they can't. I'm saying what Prince did, and what made him special in his genre, the chords he used are unusual for pop music, in my opinion it's what gave his music that little bit of extra flavor, those jazz/gospel sounds that are sometimes so subversive that the average pop listener will have no idea what they are hearing only that it's different and they like it. You wanna play the game of who's the best that can go on forever and like ray charles used to say "i know there are 10 players better than me in any city i set foot in" sales/musicianship only have so much correlation. In fact, i have a buddy now, he's got a jazz album near the top of billboard, i'm happy for him, but knowing the genre, he probably didn't have to sell very much, no one buys that stuff anymore.

CAL3 said:

clearly some of y'all haven't been exposed to any great pianists.

.

Check out Herbie Hancock.

.

McCoy Tyner.

.

Art Tatum.

.

Bill Evans.

.

Dave Brubeck.

.

CHICK COREA.

.

Earl Hines.

.

Ramsey Lewis.

.

KEITH JARRETT

.

These are just a few folks who can (or could) play absolute CIRCLES around Prince. I mean, I love Prince -- but there is a tendency by "fams" to overestimate and over-elevate his musicianship.

.

I'd say he was a great pop keyboardist. But let's KEEP IT REAL. His harmonic conception didn't have near the complexity of the greats mentioned above.