LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

I think she is shady...she (and the rest of the clan) don't just want his money, they want his life, but Tyka & co. you ain't prince and the cryptic mysterious nonsense does not work for you. Remember what prince told Manuela..."This is not a standard of living that can be recreated with money"...and I think this applies to all of them as well. Stop with the weird self indulgent boring music stuff, stop the stupid cryptic insinuations about how close you all were to prince, stop the ridiculous t.v. Show cameos, and stop pretending you know anything about his estate, his vault, or his fans...please respectfully tell us in 3 sentences what happened, like Tom Petty's family did on day 1...or sit down and wait for your millions...So over all of them...and why do they all have to giggle while giving interviews about their dead love one...bluuuuck

Tom Petty's family NEVER explained why Tom had BOTH legal fentanyl and illegal (street) fentanyl in his system.

[Edited 3/15/18 9:44am]

I give them credit - they didn't sugarcoat anything. I still think if Prince's autopsy report was released it would answer a lot of questions.

Morgaine said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Hmmm.......I don't think people choose to be an addict.

You're right, Clover, people don't choose to be addicts, it's a complex process and is usually preceeded by at least one mental illness such as anxiety, depression, etc. There's also a high percentage - some studies cite 80% or more - of addicts that endured significant trauma before becoming addicted. Finally, addiction is not confined to drugs or alcohol but also entails behavioral addiction such as food, work, gambling, and the Internet. Here's a decent article with a fairly simple explanation for anyone interested: http://theconversation.co...rugs-81004 Peace.

That was a good article. Thanks for sending the link.

cloveringold85 said:

Morgaine said:

laurarichardson said:

Morgaine said:

Menes said:

Thank you, Bod. Strange how they "thought it could be "homicide"( only as in : someone gave him the "kill pill'). Did he swallow the first kill pill" in Moline too? If so, why would any sane person who thought he swallowed a kill pill that was planted 7 days prior, not :

A: Report that he thought he was targeted for murder because someone slipped him a "kill pill" in Atlanta?

B: Throw every single pill out on the suspicion that any pill could have been tainted /laced with the same "kill pill " ingredient once he got back home?

C: Eliminate all access and contact with persons that had an opportunity to plant the "kill pill" ? That should include all staff , family members, etc.

D. Lastly, and in reference to the (7) seven days prior to his death, is there anything in his behavior that would lead one to believe that Prince was targeted? Do you invite strangers into your house for a private show if you believe you were almost murdered (7) seven days before?

The truth was hidden amongst years of diversion. The only way we were granted privilege to that truth (and how badly off Prince was) , is solely because of what happened in Moline. If not for that one event, we would know absolutely nothing to this very day.

[Edited 3/11/18 20:33pm]

Thank you, Menes. The fact that he ODd days before he died of an accidental Fentanyl OD is part of why I believe the Moline OD was also from Fentanyl.

Never mind that the search warrent said Percocet at Moline and the only Fentanyl found was in the bootlegg pills.

Please post where the search warrant states that there is evidence showing it was Percocet.
We've been over this before.
Unless there is new info previously unreleased, the only thing the sesrch warrant stated was that Kirk thought it was Percocet.
That's not evidence. And we will probably never know. It is my opinion. No one said you (or anyone else) needs to like it - I don't need nor am I looking for validation for my opinion.
If you have evidence showing otherwise, please post it.
I have no dog in this fight - my ego doesn't need to be right.

Thanks, this is is interesting. I've read quite a bit about the connection between addiction and other physical and mental illness. There is a whole lot of comorbidity there, and they feed into each other (for exampe, depression can exacerbate phyical pain, and that can tie in with drug use, which can make depression worse, etc. etc.). It really seems that we won't be able to fully address the addiction crisis without a clear and compassionate look at the effect of mental illness and past trauma on people.

leec1 said:

Morgaine said:

cloveringold85 said: You're right, Clover, people don't choose to be addicts, it's a complex process and is usually preceeded by at least one mental illness such as anxiety, depression, etc. There's also a high percentage - some studies cite 80% or more - of addicts that endured significant trauma before becoming addicted. Finally, addiction is not confined to drugs or alcohol but also entails behavioral addiction such as food, work, gambling, and the Internet. Here's a decent article with a fairly simple explanation for anyone interested: http://theconversation.co...rugs-81004 Peace.

That was a good article. Thanks for sending the link.

Morgaine said:

Sorry, no. Percocet isn't "what's stated"; it's what Kirk stated, in a speculative way, to the hospital staff, and the warrant is phrased in such a way to make that attribution verey clear. Kirk's speculation is not the same as an authoritative confirmation.

-

You're correct that the doctor did not specify fentanyl; the doctor only specified "opioid," of which fentanyl is one, as are many other drugs. So we don't know what opioid is was.

-

My personal opinion is, there's a good chance it was fentanyl and it got into him the same way that the fentanyl that killed him a week later did (in a laced counterfeit pill). The reason I think that is because it seems less likely that he ODed twice on opioids, so close together, but on totally different opioids. It seems likely to me the 2 incidents are connected.

-

That is my opinion based on what scant info is publicly available. I'm not interested in discussing it with you further because this has all been hashed over and until more facts become public, there's nothing new to add, and I don't really care if your opinion about this is the same as mine.

laurarichardson said:

Morgaine said:

Please post where the search warrant states that there is evidence showing it was Percocet. We've been over this before. Unless there is new info previously unreleased, the only thing the sesrch warrant stated was that Kirk thought it was Percocet. That's not evidence. And we will probably never know. It is my opinion. No one said you (or anyone else) needs to like it - I don't need nor am I looking for validation for my opinion. If you have evidence showing otherwise, please post it. I have no dog in this fight - my ego doesn't need to be right.

—-It does not matter that Kirk said it. Percocet is what is stated and no where does it say Fentanyl. No evidence whatsoever that his problems in Moline were due to Fentanyl.

[Edited 3/15/18 11:45am]

GrayDorian said:

purplefam99 said:

cryptic is not shady. Cryptic is not telling us the whole story in detail, which she has a right to do

it is called privacy. cryptic is letting you puzzle it out and not really caring where you land, again her

right.

shady is impling wrong doing or illegal activity. i can't see where one can deem her Character as

shady in regard to his death, just because she is making a choice to be careful of what she chooses to share and when

and how. these are my opinions, i respect that they arent held by all.

I agree with your bolded remarks. Tyka has already kindly shared with us that Prince was seriously ill for 2-3 years prior to his passing. I am having a hard time relating to why some folks seem reluctant to believe her. The fact that she may seem a tad eccentric to some in no way diminishes her credibility to me.

IMHO she is fully entitled not to submit to any pressure to share specific details of his illness, especially if Prince did not wish her to. However, if that is not the case and she decides it is in Prince's best interests to reveal more details in her book, that is entirely her prerogative.


She clearly loves her brother and has conducted herself with dignity. I think that her love for and loyalty to Prince is surely a testament to her character, rather than to its detriment.

.

Do you believe someone who keeps changing their story?

.

Tyka claims she told "everyone", yet no one seems to know Prince was dying.

Morgaine said:

laurarichardson said:

Never mind that the search warrent said Percocet at Moline and the only Fentanyl found was in the bootlegg pills.

Please post where the search warrant states that there is evidence showing it was Percocet. We've been over this before. Unless there is new info previously unreleased, the only thing the sesrch warrant stated was that Kirk thought it was Percocet. That's not evidence. And we will probably never know. It is my opinion. No one said you (or anyone else) needs to like it - I don't need nor am I looking for validation for my opinion. If you have evidence showing otherwise, please post it. I have no dog in this fight - my ego doesn't need to be right.

.

There has not been any clear information about Moline. Does anyone wonder why?

Morgaine said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yes -- they never said Prince's OD in Moline was Fentanyl. I don't know where people are getting this idea from.

Sigh...one last time. It is MY OPINION based on what evidence is out there as well as my own educational background and experience. I appreciate your opinions, whether I agree with them or not, it would be nice, but definitely not required, to receive the same courtesy. Peace.

.

No problem. I was just asking where the info was coming from? I'm not saying that it wasn't Fentanyl, and it quite possibly could have been Fentanyl.

.

I apologize if I sounded like I was discrediting your opinion -- that was not my intent.

Morgaine said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Hmmm.......I don't think people choose to be an addict.

You're right, Clover, people don't choose to be addicts, it's a complex process and is usually preceeded by at least one mental illness such as anxiety, depression, etc. There's also a high percentage - some studies cite 80% or more - of addicts that endured significant trauma before becoming addicted. Finally, addiction is not confined to drugs or alcohol but also entails behavioral addiction such as food, work, gambling, and the Internet. Here's a decent article with a fairly simple explanation for anyone interested: http://theconversation.co...rugs-81004 Peace.

.

Exactly!! Every case of addiction is completely different. People become addicted for different reasons, whether it be a medical condition, chemical imbalance in the brain, trauma (physical and/or mental). I've dealt with addiction in my own family, so I know what it can do to a person and families.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

I think she is shady...she (and the rest of the clan) don't just want his money, they want his life, but Tyka & co. you ain't prince and the cryptic mysterious nonsense does not work for you. Remember what prince told Manuela..."This is not a standard of living that can be recreated with money"...and I think this applies to all of them as well. Stop with the weird self indulgent boring music stuff, stop the stupid cryptic insinuations about how close you all were to prince, stop the ridiculous t.v. Show cameos, and stop pretending you know anything about his estate, his vault, or his fans...please respectfully tell us in 3 sentences what happened, like Tom Petty's family did on day 1...or sit down and wait for your millions...So over all of them...and why do they all have to giggle while giving interviews about their dead love one...bluuuuck

Tom Petty's family NEVER explained why Tom had BOTH legal fentanyl and illegal (street) fentanyl in his system.

[Edited 3/15/18 9:44am]

.

I know, and it's a damn shame. Illegal Fentanyl is wrecking havoc on families, and taking lives......and it need not be swept under the carpet.

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Hmmm.......I don't think people choose to be an addict.

It is a choice when you start especially if you have seen it in your own family

.

No, Laura. Addiction is NOT a choice. You seem like an intelligent person, please tell me you do not really believe that!

.

Oftentimes, addiction is passed down through your genetics -- you can't reverse what's already been implanted in your brain! Do you understand that?

.

I take this topic very seriously, because both my parents had addictions and so does my Sister, so please, be considerate of other's here who have directly been affected by addiction.

laurarichardson said:

Morgaine said:

Please post where the search warrant states that there is evidence showing it was Percocet. We've been over this before. Unless there is new info previously unreleased, the only thing the sesrch warrant stated was that Kirk thought it was Percocet. That's not evidence. And we will probably never know. It is my opinion. No one said you (or anyone else) needs to like it - I don't need nor am I looking for validation for my opinion. If you have evidence showing otherwise, please post it. I have no dog in this fight - my ego doesn't need to be right.

—-It does not matter that Kirk said it. Percocet is what is stated and no where does it say Fentanyl. No evidence whatsoever that his problems in Moline were due to Fentanyl.

.

.......BUT, we don't have all of that information about what happened in Moline. It could have been Fentanyl.

disch said:

Thanks, this is is interesting. I've read quite a bit about the connection between addiction and other physical and mental illness. There is a whole lot of comorbidity there, and they feed into each other (for exampe, depression can exacerbate phyical pain, and that can tie in with drug use, which can make depression worse, etc. etc.). It really seems that we won't be able to fully address the addiction crisis without a clear and compassionate look at the effect of mental illness and past trauma on people.

leec1 said:

That was a good article. Thanks for sending the link.

.

Clover, I think it was you who linked to a really good article a while back where an addiction specialist from New York discussed her experience of the complicated interplay of mental health issues, physical health issues and addiction? I didn't save a link and wish I had, because it was really illuminating.

cloveringold85 said:

disch said:

Thanks, this is is interesting. I've read quite a bit about the connection between addiction and other physical and mental illness. There is a whole lot of comorbidity there, and they feed into each other (for exampe, depression can exacerbate phyical pain, and that can tie in with drug use, which can make depression worse, etc. etc.). It really seems that we won't be able to fully address the addiction crisis without a clear and compassionate look at the effect of mental illness and past trauma on people.

.

leec1 said:

I'm curious about this point of view, as you and a couple others have repeated it a lot. Do you feel similarly about something like obesity? That's a health problem that's defintely impacted by choices a person makes (their eating and exercise habits). Would you argue that obesity is a choice that an individual makes through their own bad decisions, especially if a person has seen it in their own family?

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Hmmm.......I don't think people choose to be an addict.

It is a choice when you start especially if you have seen it in your own family

[Edited 3/15/18 12:43pm]

laurarichardson said:

Morgaine said:

Please post where the search warrant states that there is evidence showing it was Percocet.
We've been over this before.
Unless there is new info previously unreleased, the only thing the sesrch warrant stated was that Kirk thought it was Percocet.
That's not evidence. And we will probably never know. It is my opinion. No one said you (or anyone else) needs to like it - I don't need nor am I looking for validation for my opinion.
If you have evidence showing otherwise, please post it.
I have no dog in this fight - my ego doesn't need to be right.

—-It does not matter that Kirk said it. Percocet is what is stated and no where does it say Fentanyl. No evidence whatsoever that his problems in Moline were due to Fentanyl.

disch said:

disch said:

cloveringold85 said:

disch said:

Yes! Thank you. That one's a good read too: "The solution [to addiction] isn’t simple. We must first recognize that drugs don’t really cause addiction; they are simply a tool to temporarily relieve symptoms. We must identify and address the underlying pain and suffering. We must show a lot more compassion and a lot less judgment toward people with addiction."

Morgaine said:

disch said:

Clover, I think it was you who linked to a really good article a while back where an addiction specialist from New York discussed her experience of the complicated interplay of mental health issues, physical health issues and addiction? I didn't save a link and wish I had, because it was really illuminating.

This one? https://www.statnews.com/...-overdose/

[Edited 3/15/18 13:11pm]

disch said:

Clover, I think it was you who linked to a really good article a while back where an addiction specialist from New York discussed her experience of the complicated interplay of mental health issues, physical health issues and addiction? I didn't save a link and wish I had, because it was really illuminating.

cloveringold85 said:

.

.

Yes, I do remember that article written by that doctor. I did not save that one, unfortunately. Damn!!

Morgaine said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

No problem. I was just asking where the info was coming from? I'm not saying that it wasn't Fentanyl, and it quite possibly could have been Fentanyl.

.

I apologize if I sounded like I was discrediting your opinion -- that was not my intent.

I don't mind anyone trying to discredit mt opinion - I was more irritated that I stated it was only my opinion. I have no problem changing it, it just makes sense to me given how Judith described him on the plane, that it's almost impossible for someone (with or without a tolerance to opiods) would OD on two Percocet pills, & that he died from an accidental Fentanyl OD. It's opinion he'd been using opiates for at least 10 years due to chronic pain; I think he was in tremendous pain. Streer pills with Fentanyl, afaik, have a set amount of Fentanyl in them- some more, some less, some with no Fentanyl in the same batch. I think he blew off the Moline OD, by believing he took too many, was in a great deal of pain, & took one on 4-20. I can't even imagine the amount of physical pain he suffered trying to detox, because I believe that's what he was sick from, not the flu. I can't prove most of it. And I'm ok with being wrong. Thanks for your reply 💜

.

I keep an open mind about all things. I always appreciate what other's bring to the table, because it may lead to a new discovery, or shed some light, we hope!

.

I agree with the Moline incident. Prince could have taken too much Fentanyl, and he realized he was in trouble; and only a few days later......he was gone.

.

He was treated in the hospital, and I'm sure they took blood tests, but we will probably never know.

I saw this on the news last night. Really upsetting. People injuring their animals so they can get pain pills from the Vet?

.

https://www.thedenverchan...g-injuries

disch said:

Yes! Thank you. That one's a good read too: "The solution [to addiction] isn’t simple. We must first recognize that drugs don’t really cause addiction; they are simply a tool to temporarily relieve symptoms. We must identify and address the underlying pain and suffering. We must show a lot more compassion and a lot less judgment toward people with addiction."

Morgaine said:

disch said: This one? https://www.statnews.com/...-overdose/

[Edited 3/15/18 13:11pm]

.

I remember reading that one too about Tom Petty.