NotACleverName said:

CherryMoon57 said:

By the sounds of it, Prince came pretty close to being a pastor, at least during the period described by Kevin Smith here (there are several parts to watch):http://www.dailymotion.co...eo/x2noswohttp://www.dailymotion.co...eo/x2z63kx And let's not forget that his very close friend Denise Matthews had herself become an evangelist.[Edited 3/6/18 3:33am]

While I thank you for your input, CM57, "almost" and "is" are not synonymous. Appreciate the suggestion to view the KS vids, however, I attempted to do so about a year ago and discovered he was not nearly as funny as he thinks he is. So, I'll take a pass. Could you help me understand how Denise's evangelism is relevant to the conversation/my question? To further explain, I addressed Clover due to the fact that s/he continuously posts salacious opinion delivered as fact and rarely, if ever, provides documentation to support said opinion. Crickets.....always crickets.

.

Oh, pardon moi for not responding to your majesty in a timely manner.

cloveringold85 said:

benni said:

I could not even watch 10 minutes of that video. The man has no clue what he is talking about. Prince was never a satan worshipper (sorry to disappoint a few). The occult does not mean satan worship. The occult means "hidden, secret" knowledge. It comes from the latin word occultus, which literally means "clandestine, hidden, secret". Esoteric would be a better way to describe it. These are the hidden, deeper meanings of religious texts that are given to those that are ready (prepared) for those lessons. In Judaism, Kabbalah is considered to be such a teaching. In Christianity, even the Bible talks about the "secret" of God and "secret Wisdom". It is only in the mind of some that occult is synonmous with satanism.

If you listen to "I Would Die 4 U" as Christ speaking to you, instead of as some off the wall satan shtick, which it isn't, then it makes perfect sense.

As for sexually explicit lyrics being from satan:

Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine.

A bundle of myrrh is my well-beloved unto me; he shall lie all night betwixt my breasts.

His left hand is under my head, and his right hand doth embrace me.

Thou hast ravished my heart, my sister, my spouse; thou hast ravished my heart with one of thine eyes, with one chain of thy neck.

10 How fair is thy love, my sister, my spouse! how much better is thy love than wine! and the smell of thine ointments than all spices!

11 Thy lips, O my spouse, drop as the honeycomb: honey and milk are under thy tongue; and the smell of thy garments is like the smell of Lebanon.

12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

13 Thy plants are an orchard of pomegranates, with pleasant fruits; camphire, with spikenard,

14 Spikenard and saffron; calamus and cinnamon, with all trees of frankincense; myrrh and aloes, with all the chief spices:

15 A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams from Lebanon.

16 Awake, O north wind; and come, thou south; blow upon my garden, that the spices thereof may flow out. Let my beloved come into his garden, and eat his pleasant fruits.


And I could paste more, but if you read all of The Song Of Solomon, in the Bible, you get the gist. Prince has said repeatedly, in many interviews, that when he sang about sex, to him, he was singing about a spiritual joining, regardless of how others interpreted that.

.

I understand where you are going with that, but see, that was what was so perplexing about Prince. Was he trying to trick us? Did he want us to think his music was about God, when it was actually about the opposite? I mean, quoting the bible and using sex and the same time, is a bit weird, you must admit. We could sit here all day until the cow's come home and talk about Prince's lyrics and their meaning(s).

Wasn't perplexing to me in the least. And no, he wasn't trying to trick to anyone. Prince was one of those people that was truly genuine in his belief. If you can't see that, then there is nothing more to be said.

And no, quoting the Bible and using sex is not weird. Even the Bible talks about sex, case in point, Song of Solomon above. And God said, "Go forth and procreate" (have sex to have children). And again, Prince has stated, time and again, that when he sang about sex, he wasn't singing of a physical joining, so much as he was singing about a spiritual joining. Yes, there were times when he sang strictly about sex, but unless you equate sex as being evil, then I don't understand your hang up with it.

You stated in a further post about Prince's album covers and being "nearly naked Prince" and "a completely nude Prince"....in which he wore crucifix or a flower "with petals spread like angel wings". You realize when God created the earth, before the fall of man, both male and female were naked until they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. (Gained an understanding of duality).

And besides, the two sides, the spiritual and the sexual, could be interpreted as the two sides of Prince, the one who desires and the one who is always focused upon God. The two sides aren't mutually exclusive from each other, they are the duality of Christians....we all fall short of the Glory of God, but we all strive to obtain spiritual atonement and enlightenment.

[Edited 3/6/18 23:39pm]

"Between white and black, night and day
Black night seemed like the only way
So I danced
Music late, nothing great
No way to differentiate
I took a chance"

dabbler or what?

Agree, benni. For me, this song speaks volumes about what Prince believed. Regardless of what one calls it, The Cross or The Christ, the message is clear.

benni said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I understand where you are going with that, but see, that was what was so perplexing about Prince. Was he trying to trick us? Did he want us to think his music was about God, when it was actually about the opposite? I mean, quoting the bible and using sex and the same time, is a bit weird, you must admit. We could sit here all day until the cow's come home and talk about Prince's lyrics and their meaning(s).

Wasn't perplexing to me in the least. And no, he wasn't trying to trick to anyone. Prince was one of those people that was truly genuine in his belief. If you can't see that, then there is nothing more to be said.

And no, quoting the Bible and using sex is not weird. Even the Bible talks about sex, case in point, Song of Solomon above. And God said, "Go forth and procreate" (have sex to have children). And again, Prince has stated, time and again, that when he sang about sex, he wasn't singing of a physical joining, so much as he was singing about a spiritual joining. Yes, there were times when he sang strictly about sex, but unless you equate sex as being evil, then I don't understand your hang up with it.

You stated in a further post about Prince's album covers and being "nearly naked Prince" and "a completely nude Prince"....in which he wore crucifix or a flower "with petals spread like angel wings". You realize created the earth, before the fall of man, both male and female were naked until they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. (Gained an understanding of duality).

And besides, the two sides, the spiritual and the sexual, could be interpreted as the two sides of Prince, the one who desires and the one who is always focused upon God. The two sides aren't mutually exclusive from each other, they are the duality of Christians....we all fall short of the Glory of God, but we all strive to obtain spiritual atonement and enlightenment.

i hope Prince sees now how being cryptic isn't all that helpful. this is ridiculous that we

even have to wonder.

purplefam99 said:

i hope Prince sees now how being cryptic isn't all that helpful. this is ridiculous that we

even have to wonder.

Some of us don't have to wonder. When you have a man that spoke as eloquently, heartfully, about God (throughout his career), there is nothing left to wonder. The man was in no shape, form, or fashion condoing satanism or dark arts or any such thing. I've been coming to Prince.org since 1998 and every few years there were threads about "I wish he would stop preaching to us,", "I love his music but can do without the sermons." When he would leave stage, even way back when, he would always point to heaven, point to God, as if to say, "That's where you keep your focus." I have no issues with him being crypitc, and rather enjoyed it. And whiel I'm secure in my knowledge that he was always a God loving man, I'm not going to sit back and say nothing while others try to paint him as some kind of satan worshipper. I'm just not. That goes against everything that man stood for.

stlmuziqlvr said:

Agree, benni. For me, this song speaks volumes about what Prince believed. Regardless of what one calls it, The Cross or The Christ, the message is clear.

Black day, stormy night
No love, no hope in sight
Don't cry, he is coming
Don't die without knowing the cross
Ghettos to the left of us
Flowers to the right
There'll be bread for all of us
If we can just bear the cross

Sweet song of salvation
A pregnant mother sings
She lives in starvation
Her children need all that she brings

We all have our problems
Some big, some are small
Soon all of our problems
Will be taken by the cross

Black day, stormy night
No love, no hope in sight
Don't cry for he is coming
Don't die without knowing the cross

Ghettos to the left of us
Flowers to the right
There'll be bread for all, y'all
If we can just, just bear the cross, yeah

We all have our problems
Some are big, some are small
Soon all of our problems, y'all
Will be taken by the cross

The cross
The cross

benni said:

Wasn't perplexing to me in the least. And no, he wasn't trying to trick to anyone. Prince was one of those people that was truly genuine in his belief. If you can't see that, then there is nothing more to be said.

And no, quoting the Bible and using sex is not weird. Even the Bible talks about sex, case in point, Song of Solomon above. And God said, "Go forth and procreate" (have sex to have children). And again, Prince has stated, time and again, that when he sang about sex, he wasn't singing of a physical joining, so much as he was singing about a spiritual joining. Yes, there were times when he sang strictly about sex, but unless you equate sex as being evil, then I don't understand your hang up with it.

You stated in a further post about Prince's album covers and being "nearly naked Prince" and "a completely nude Prince"....in which he wore crucifix or a flower "with petals spread like angel wings". You realize created the earth, before the fall of man, both male and female were naked until they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. (Gained an understanding of duality).

And besides, the two sides, the spiritual and the sexual, could be interpreted as the two sides of Prince, the one who desires and the one who is always focused upon God. The two sides aren't mutually exclusive from each other, they are the duality of Christians....we all fall short of the Glory of God, but we all strive to obtain spiritual atonement and enlightenment.

I absolutely ADORE that song! It is one of the greatest, imo, whether he would sing it as The Cross or The Christ.

Same here. Thought it was so inspirational when Bono posted the lyrics as a tribute...and, of course, Lenny at the RRHOF. But, no one could sing it like Prince.

benni said:

stlmuziqlvr said:

Agree, benni. For me, this song speaks volumes about what Prince believed. Regardless of what one calls it, The Cross or The Christ, the message is clear.

Black day, stormy night
No love, no hope in sight
Don't cry, he is coming
Don't die without knowing the cross
Ghettos to the left of us
Flowers to the right
There'll be bread for all of us
If we can just bear the cross

Sweet song of salvation
A pregnant mother sings
She lives in starvation
Her children need all that she brings

We all have our problems
Some big, some are small
Soon all of our problems
Will be taken by the cross

Black day, stormy night
No love, no hope in sight
Don't cry for he is coming
Don't die without knowing the cross

Ghettos to the left of us
Flowers to the right
There'll be bread for all, y'all
If we can just, just bear the cross, yeah

We all have our problems
Some are big, some are small
Soon all of our problems, y'all
Will be taken by the cross

The cross
The cross

I absolutely ADORE that song! It is one of the greatest, imo, whether he would sing it as The Cross or The Christ.

luvsexy4all said:

benni said:

purplefam99 said:

benni said:

Some of us don't have to wonder. When you have a man that spoke as eloquently, heartfully, about God (throughout his career), there is nothing left to wonder. The man was in no shape, form, or fashion condoing satanism or dark arts or any such thing. I've been coming to Prince.org since 1998 and every few years there were threads about "I wish he would stop preaching to us,", "I love his music but can do without the sermons." When he would leave stage, even way back when, he would always point to heaven, point to God, as if to say, "That's where you keep your focus." I have no issues with him being crypitc, and rather enjoyed it. And whiel I'm secure in my knowledge that he was always a God loving man, I'm not going to sit back and say nothing while others try to paint him as some kind of satan worshipper. I'm just not. That goes against everything that man stood for.

Fair enough to your points. I know I see and felt God in his music, no matter what debates ensues.

everybody can have their own opinions. In my "religion", which some clearly think Christianity as represented by someone like moiself is the greatest evil in the world, or should I say "live", well, anyways, in the Scripture it says judge not that you won't be judged, so I have no place judging prince or anyone on this board as to their spiritual condition, and truthfully, you have no place judging me either, but feel free...it's far from the first time and won't be the last, and doesn't bother me a bit. If you tell me that my kind is responsible for all the evils in the world, well.... I just don't care these days. Going by prince's lyrics, music, album covers, videos, etc., and reading things on this forum about things that people who knew him had to say, I have serious questions as to the purpose of his music, the method of his death, and the level of occult following of he and his band members past and present, and I have an interest in it for my own reasons. I never listened to prince until he died, I admit it, and only became interested in this subject the more I listened and put some facts together (my own reasons again). I have questions and some of them are along the lines of what is discussed in that video, and I just listen to and read things about this subject to see what I can find out. I'm not one of those people who take things at face value...there's ALWAYS more to the story. Curiousity killed the cat. Etc. No offense to anyone who feels differently. I don't take ANYTHING in this world at face value...and neither should anyone else. About the only thing I DO believe in is the Bible, to be honest. K then...

benni said:

CherryMoon57 said:

I am sorry Benni, but you cannot really compare the tone used in songs like Darling Nikki with these Bible verses. We know Prince loved to talk about love, sex and sensuality, the human body etc. there is nothing wrong with that at all and this is not what this thread is about. The thread is about the possibility that Prince may have flirted with the dark side of spirituality - or whatever you may wish to call it - and incorporated some of it in both his released (and unrealeased) music.

Now whether he was aware of it and backtracked against it a few times in his life, the fact is that he still wrote those songs, meaning the dark inspiration was there. I know the people speaking in the video posted by the OP may not have all the elements to characterise and judge Prince entirely as a person and nor do we, but they did raise a few fair and relevant points. For instance, the Partyman video where all the party goers end up being poisoned by a two-faced Prince. We all know that Prince was very much a partyman himself for much of his life... Why would he willingly incarnate such an evil person on a screen?

And how would you analyse the lyrics in this (unreleased) song, and the chorus in particular. I am aware that it was written with the Batman film in mind and am not contesting the musical validity of the song either but in the context of the topic discussed and as far as I can see, he is not asking the listeners to NOT dance with the devil. At least he has had enough spiritual sense to not release the song, but still wrote it. He also removed the Black Album from the shelves because he felt it was too 'evil', but was there perhaps another reason? Interestingly, in the track Bob George, he ends up being killed by a character representing his music manager... Also he himself stopped playing a lot of his earlier songs for a long period of time and even talked against them in some of his shows. For an artist to auto-censor his own songs, that meant that maybe he too thought that they were not good for his fans.

'Cunning liar, eternal fire
Demon clever, promise 4ever
The curious try and always die

Live in fear, the devil is near
Can U feel his breath? Pray 4 death
The curious try and always die

"U men point those search lights up on the tower right now - move, move!"

Have no Savior, have no faith
Never look 4 Heaven's gate
Devil's children, no love inside
There is a soul, but it has died

Devil's children, no love inside
There is a soul, but it has died
And it cries, and it cries?

CHORUS:
Dance with the devil in the pale moonlight
Put your arms around him and hold him tight
Give up 2 the feeling and don't try 2 fight
He wants your soul and he wants it 2night
Dance with the devil in the pale moonlight
Put your arms around him and hold him tight
Close your eyes 2 love and die

Dance with the devil in the pale moonlight

"U know, without U I just wouldn't wanna go on"

CHORUS

Dance with the devil in the pale moonlight
Put your arms around him and hold him tight

"It's as though we were made 4 each other
Beauty and the Beast
Of course if anyone else calls U Beast
I'll rip their lungs out"

Dance with the devil in the pale moonlight
Put your arms around him and hold him tight"

Those particular lyrics, a warning. The devil is cunning, he's a liar, and if you turn from God to evil, then you are sealing your fate.

What? You read that as him telling you to turn to devil worship? Really?


As for other sexually explicit material in Prince's song, a friend and I once talked about this years ago. This friend said something that really clicked. Prince's mom was a social worker, right? So, in social work we are taught, "Start where the client is, get on their level, that's when you can reach them, and help them." Prince may have heard something similar from his mom, the social worker. If Prince believed (which I have heard that he did believe this) that he had a message to spread, how else would he get attention focused on him? By exuding sexuality, by singing about "sex". This was a guarantee to get the youth's attention. And it worked. Once he knew he had the world's focus upon on, he began interjecting more and more religious/spiritual themes into his music, and continued to evolve that - so that you see Prince's style of dress evolve from wearing briefs and a trench coat on stage, to dressing in a more refined manner. He was showing visually, the changes that one undergoes when they seek a higher existence. You move from the base, the mundane, to refined, elegance.

If you want to make a difference, grab their attention, get them focused on you, get them into your music, (use sexuality), and lift them up slowly. Move them away from the base and mundane, and bring them up to your level.

On the same album that he has the song "Darling Nikki" he also has "Let's Go Crazy", in which he has explained that he could not say "God" on the radio and he had to use other ways to sing about God. He said essentially that he was saying, that when de elevator brings you down, punch a higher floor, turn to God.

I think his first 3 albums were his attempt to find where he fit in to the music scene. By the time Controversy arrived, he was finding where he fit, and ways to get his message out. In the song Annie Christian (which of course is the anti-christ), he talks about those that were influenced by and did evil things and how HE is staying away from that (living his life in a taxi cab). Always staying on the move, away from evil, and it could be said that "taxi cab" was another word (in this song) that he used to represent God.

As for the Song of Solomon, for those times, those verses would be about what Darling Nikki was to our times. In the Song of Solomon, the love is described as a garden, and the lover is begging his love to open the garden and let him enter. He sings of drinking the nectar and how his head is moist. Yeah, pretty heady stuff. But again, all of that was Solomon's description of a marriage between man and woman, but the esoteric (deeper, secret teaching) has always been that this is the description of a person seeking a deeper, more intimate relationship with God.

I see that you have conveniently ignored the points about the Partyman video and the Black Album. As for your clouded reasoning... The method you prescribed above, of using secular things to 'attract' people towards a belief is commonly called a 'spirit of seduction' and no different from what is found in all these recent (and very annointing annoying) trendy mega churches. God is powerful enough thank you very much and He doesn't need a supporting artist with sexy dancers and pom poms.

As far as I know, the Bible says that the only way to God is by redemption through Jesus Christ.

Simple.

The Bible NEVER said "but first, you have to listen to a dark cryptic song about sex/the devil and don't forget to visit a certain Nikki, you know the sex fiend (ie demon) whose money can buy so many 'devices' and make sure to sign your name on the dotted line too, that's important. The Lord is coming mwahahahah!".

I am not sure what Bible it is you are reading, but my Bible doesn't mention any of that.

If you take your fame-tinted glasses off for a moment, maybe you will clearly see that Darling Nikki is NOT about God or love, and judging from Prince's performance of the song onstage, the closest it came to love was probably 'angry sex' (again, very far from the kind of love described in the Song of Solomon).

benni said:

purplefam99 said:

i hope Prince sees now how being cryptic isn't all that helpful. this is ridiculous that we

even have to wonder.

Some of us don't have to wonder. When you have a man that spoke as eloquently, heartfully, about God (throughout his career), there is nothing left to wonder. The man was in no shape, form, or fashion condoing satanism or dark arts or any such thing. I've been coming to Prince.org since 1998 and every few years there were threads about "I wish he would stop preaching to us,", "I love his music but can do without the sermons." When he would leave stage, even way back when, he would always point to heaven, point to God, as if to say, "That's where you keep your focus." I have no issues with him being crypitc, and rather enjoyed it. And whiel I'm secure in my knowledge that he was always a God loving man, I'm not going to sit back and say nothing while others try to paint him as some kind of satan worshipper. I'm just not. That goes against everything that man stood for.

I too believe that his beliefs were more genuine from 1998 onwards... Usually popularity declines the closer you get to God. That is simply because fame is not the goal per se, the glory of God is. And this is what Prince started doing: working for the glory of God. Whether he continued until the end I am not sure (I think he started singing a lot of his old songs again towards the very end of his career, including Darling Nikki). And I am certainly not saying Prince was a Satan worshipper. I just think that by playing the fame game and serving two masters, he not only confused himself, but a lot of his fans as well.

"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money." Luke 16:13

He was playing private gigs for bigcashmoney for ruthless, godless, moral-less businessmen as late as December 31st 2015 so I don't see much of a change of heart when it comes to choosing God or money there.

purplethunder3121 said:

isn't the yellow and black zigzag on charlie's shirt a sign of the Cult of Thor?

CherryMoon57 said:

benni said:

Those particular lyrics, a warning. The devil is cunning, he's a liar, and if you turn from God to evil, then you are sealing your fate.

What? You read that as him telling you to turn to devil worship? Really?


As for other sexually explicit material in Prince's song, a friend and I once talked about this years ago. This friend said something that really clicked. Prince's mom was a social worker, right? So, in social work we are taught, "Start where the client is, get on their level, that's when you can reach them, and help them." Prince may have heard something similar from his mom, the social worker. If Prince believed (which I have heard that he did believe this) that he had a message to spread, how else would he get attention focused on him? By exuding sexuality, by singing about "sex". This was a guarantee to get the youth's attention. And it worked. Once he knew he had the world's focus upon on, he began interjecting more and more religious/spiritual themes into his music, and continued to evolve that - so that you see Prince's style of dress evolve from wearing briefs and a trench coat on stage, to dressing in a more refined manner. He was showing visually, the changes that one undergoes when they seek a higher existence. You move from the base, the mundane, to refined, elegance.

If you want to make a difference, grab their attention, get them focused on you, get them into your music, (use sexuality), and lift them up slowly. Move them away from the base and mundane, and bring them up to your level.

On the same album that he has the song "Darling Nikki" he also has "Let's Go Crazy", in which he has explained that he could not say "God" on the radio and he had to use other ways to sing about God. He said essentially that he was saying, that when de elevator brings you down, punch a higher floor, turn to God.

I think his first 3 albums were his attempt to find where he fit in to the music scene. By the time Controversy arrived, he was finding where he fit, and ways to get his message out. In the song Annie Christian (which of course is the anti-christ), he talks about those that were influenced by and did evil things and how HE is staying away from that (living his life in a taxi cab). Always staying on the move, away from evil, and it could be said that "taxi cab" was another word (in this song) that he used to represent God.

As for the Song of Solomon, for those times, those verses would be about what Darling Nikki was to our times. In the Song of Solomon, the love is described as a garden, and the lover is begging his love to open the garden and let him enter. He sings of drinking the nectar and how his head is moist. Yeah, pretty heady stuff. But again, all of that was Solomon's description of a marriage between man and woman, but the esoteric (deeper, secret teaching) has always been that this is the description of a person seeking a deeper, more intimate relationship with God.

I see that you have conveniently ignored the points about the Partyman video and the Black Album. As for your clouded reasoning... The method you prescribed above, of using secular things to 'attract' people towards a belief is commonly called a 'spirit of seduction' and no different from what is found in all these recent (and very annointing annoying) trendy mega churches. God is powerful enough thank you very much and He doesn't need a supporting artist with sexy dancers and pom poms.

As far as I know, the Bible says that the only way to God is by redemption through Jesus Christ.

Simple.

The Bible NEVER said "but first, you have to listen to a dark cryptic song about sex/the devil and don't forget to visit a certain Nikki, you know the sex fiend (ie demon) whose money can buy so many 'devices' and make sure to sign your name on the dotted line too, that's important. The Lord is coming mwahahahah!".

I am not sure what Bible it is you are reading, but my Bible doesn't mention any of that.

If you take your fame-tinted glasses off for a moment, maybe you will clearly see that Darling Nikki is NOT about God or love, and judging from Prince's performance of the song onstage, the closest it came to love was probably 'angry sex' (again, very far from the kind of love described in the Song of Solomon).

LOL - You go on with your bad self, CherryMoon. As I said above, Prince was genuine in his beliefs, and if you can't see that, there isn't anything more to be discussed. To make the claim that Prince was into dark arts, satanism, is just laughable. In a 1985 interview with MTV he stated, "I believe in God. I believe there is only one God. I believe in the afterlife. I pray every night. I don't ask for much. I just say 'thank you.'"

Also, in 1985, from The Rolling Stone interview: "Hi," says Rande, from the kitchen, "you got a couple of messages." Prince thanks her and offers up some homemade chocolate-chip cookies. He takes a drink from a water cooler emblazoned with a Minnesota North Stars sticker and continues the tour. "This place," he says, "is not a prison. And the only things it's a shrine to are Jesus, love and peace."

Around the Dirty Mind he talked about depression and illness and stated that a lot of it had to do with difficulties with the band and not being able to get them to see how great they could be, and being in love with someone who didn't give any love in return, and not talking with his father and sister. And he talks about finding God within oneself - again, a very esoteric (or occult, if you will) and has nothing to do with satanism or dark arts.

And, btw, if you re-read what I had posted, I did not say that Darling Nikki was about God or love. So you can lose your holier than thou attitude. I didn't address The Black Album, because it has been addressed on these forums ad nauseam, ecstacy trip. As for Partyman, it was a play on Batman and how he saw the Jack Nicholson's joker. Occam's Razor.

Prince had issues from his childhood, things he had to address and come to peace with, just as we all do. But the one thing, you, nor anyone else, will ever convince me, (and I dare say the majority of Prince fans) is that he was a satanist. That man sang about God from his earliest years. Even For You (from his first album of the same name), is said to be a song that he dedicated to God, and it says it all:


"For You"

Not to mention this shit takes time.

I mean you have to go find a skinny-starved black cat, recruit 11 virgins on a 11.11 full moon dawn and then bang them all at once, in "boy or girl it don't matter no more I'm hot! — sick..." style on the 13th, all that pain.

When the poor guy is going to record? Scented organic candles was the maximum of voodoo Prince allowed in this life, and that says a lot. Crickets chirping, waters rushing...

Next thing you'll know, the "Darling Nikki" reverse outro is about Muad'Dib, pyramids and all that junk. Prince sure had a flair for theatricals, pity some minds get impressed to their core by them.
It all comes down to humour: maybe unless you're a male and you have experienced a girl you're crazy about leaving your heart in pieces horny as the devil, maybe you don't get the pain under the nastiness. A man's desire can be painful in a heartbreaking way too, you know.

Purple Rain the album has a pace, it's revolves around the concept of the couple, and "Darling Nikki" is "jealous-guy-gone-insane" masterpiece, closing his own asylum with a Choir Of Princes Prayers affirming one the day the sex wars will end, all of them singing drizzling naked under a cold hard rain, for good Christic measure.

What the hell Satan has to do with that?
Go through all of "Hallucination Rain" if you feel like feeling the hair on your spine rise.

"Purple Rain"? You're just accusing "Purple Rain" of occultism?
I'm gonna go all lasers on you. Seriously.


Did it cross your mind that the self-psycho-analysis in "The Holy River"
is something to dive in from time to time?
What you don't understand doesn't have to bend to some certainty you made yourself in absence of other environments. What if told you "Purple Rain" is an anthem for divorcees and divorcees children try to reconcile with the pain of a family parting?

The "leader" word disturbs you.
Well my friend, don't go anywhere close to Dylan, you'll freak.
It's as much as "I WOuld Die 4 U" is about Jesus.
That's just Prince going all gospel on you, you don't have to take it at face value.
"Let me guide U", as in let me guide you to this background vocals line that's coming,
so we can pretend the arena is a big church and we're singing for wounded couples,
all the wounded couples in the world, because one day they'll see each other again, in the Purple Rain.

See? Everyone has fantaisies.
Your interpretation isn't more valid than ours.
Trouble is, we're kind the majority when you hear us in Arenas, in your live bootlegs, unless you ALWAYS skip the SatanDamn song, fearing it could lead you to
some painful emotional point in time, way deep inside of you.
Maybe it's just a matter of seeing things half-full.

The lyrical Genius of SKipper is that, at his peak,
he didn't have much to add, the metaphors speaked for themselves.
Digging for some hidden "I'm-the-only-one-who-gets-it-oh,here-comes-another-open-minded-paranoid-friend-I-guess-I'll-found-a-club" theories is, I think, really too much to ask to a kind-hearted well-spirited Manchild writing pop lyrics on a napkin before the next rehearsal.

- Positivity?
- Yes?
- Have you have your had your plus sign today?

What more can I tell you. It doesn't get any more Gospel than this
in a brutal, modern, mechanical world.
Some songs are worth listening over and over, until you truly get Prince's point.
However disturbing this may be when you'll face your own voice while spitting the lead.
You'll have to let the Blue Angel tore you down to the pieces, though.

Prince may go deep. He never went occult.
Except on "God (Vocal)" maybe, where he fascinates me, he really is going for Him.
Who cares what the end result was? It had to be one take.
Talk about devotion to his talent, which he consider was coming from above,
it's not like he didn't repeat it ad nauseam.

There's this morbid fascination with the Sinéad incident and "Others Here With Us", `

I don't know, folks... Take it easy, Geez.

[Edited 3/7/18 9:40am]

RJOrion said:

i think Prince did employ "dark arts" early in his career...whether it was willingly, or unknowingly, is the part no one can really be sure of...

especially if you give any validity to the use of "blood sacrafices"
or MK Ultra mind control techniques
employed by entertainment industry bosses


under the guise of "handlers, "managers", "stylists", and "publicists"...the imagery, lyrics, duality, dishonesty, constant physical makeovers early in his career, and even the highly questionable and suspect downfall and ultimately the death of Prince, also would support some of the so called "conspircay theories"..

You mean, like bathing in the menstrual blood, of, say,
Britney Spears to get another hit?

Are you 'especially' giving yourself up giving validity to it?

[Edited 3/7/18 9:47am]

Are you really on a Faustian trip over Prince, RJOrion?
Or would you lend a sympathetic (pathetic being the operative word here)
ear to such preposterous claims?

cloveringold85 said:

RJOrion said:

i think Prince did employ "dark arts" early in his career...whether it was willingly, or unknowingly, is the part no one can really be sure of...especially if you give any validity to the use of "blood sacrafices" or MK Ultra mind control techniques employed by entertainment industry bosses under the guise of "handlers, "managers", "stylists", and "publicists"...the imagery, lyrics, duality, dishonesty, constant physical makeovers early in his career, and even the highly questionable and suspect downfall and ultimately the death of Prince, also would support some of the so called "conspircay theories"..

Want me to sum you up the ununderstandable
show-business depravation extravaganzas, don't you.
Before you go all "7th Circle" on us.

NotACleverName said:

cloveringold85 said:

https://www.twincities.co...er-nelson/

Nowhere, in this article, does it state that Prince was a "Pastor". As a JW, he did do this.... "proselytized his neighbors", which is very different than leading a congregation in worship. You like definitions, so here is one for you: pas·tor ˈpastər/ noun 1. a minister in charge of a Christian church or congregation. synonyms:minister, clergyman, priest, parson, cleric, chaplain, padre, ecclesiastic, man of the cloth, churchman, vicar, rector, curate, preacher, imam; informal reverend "our pastor is taking a group to Guatemala to help with disaster relief" verb 1. be pastor of (a church or a congregation). "he pastored Peninsula Bible Church in Palo Alto"

Well you have to agree it does sound a bit like "Popstar".
Everyone is entitled to a little deafness.


Imam SKipper!
Purple Rabbi!
Ow Lawd...

I think SKipper would rather be The Pope.
But you can play president of Deluded Fruitcakes Anonymous all the livelong day.

And now, Ladies and Gents, I present before you: The Satanists with an occult message about Africa getting fucked in the ass and high and lows in relationships.
Pretty Damned Heavy Stuff.
Freddie Krueger my ass.

[Edited 3/7/18 9:36am]

cloveringold85 said:

bonatoc said:

Prince sang a lot about love, God, death, the apocalypse, the second coming, peace, joy, sex, lust, desire. Some of those things are dark, yes, and intense, definitely, but none of them are satanic.

I think people forget how young Prince was when he started performing, only 17. What is on every male 17 year old's mind? Sex. Put a young man, on stage at that age, in which women are throwing themselves at him and someone (from what has been reported) who was extremely shy in school, didn't have a lot of girlfriend's back then, and he is going to think he is in heaven with all these women throwing themselves at him.

It doesn't surprise me that his early lyrics focused on sex, sexual energy. As he began to grow up, his music became more refined. In 1984, when Darling Nikki was released, Prince turned 26 years old. He was still young, single, and had more women than ever throwing themselves at him. He also began to realize that he could speak out on social injustices through his music and began doing that. When he was just a little boy, he had epilepsy, and told his mom, "I'm not going to be sick any more, an angel told me." (paraphrased) During the 1985 interview with Rolling Stone, he pointed out the church he went to as a child. Church, religion, God, Christ were always at his core, from a very young age.

Prince went through a lot growing up and that darkness, depth, and pain shows up in his music. He also had a difficult time finding relationships that would last. All of that plays out in his music. Prince was a deep thinker about subjects, explored conspiracy theories even, but there is no way, no how, that Prince EVER dabbled in satanism.

What U using the "cool" emoticon for?
You ain't cool unless you had a pint of good ol' seasoned Britney’s, let me tell ya.

bonatoc said:

cindyt said:

purplefam99 said:

benni said: Fair enough to your points. I know I see and felt God in his music, no matter what debates ensues.

everybody can have their own opinions. In my "religion", which some clearly think Christianity as represented by someone like moiself is the greatest evil in the world, or should I say "live", well, anyways, in the Scripture it says judge not that you won't be judged, so I have no place judging prince or anyone on this board as to their spiritual condition, and truthfully, you have no place judging me either, but feel free...it's far from the first time and won't be the last, and doesn't bother me a bit. If you tell me that my kind is responsible for all the evils in the world, well.... I just don't care these days. Going by prince's lyrics, music, album covers, videos, etc., and reading things on this forum about things that people who knew him had to say, I have serious questions as to the purpose of his music, the method of his death, and the level of occult following of he and his band members past and present, and I have an interest in it for my own reasons. I never listened to prince until he died, I admit it, and only became interested in this subject the more I listened and put some facts together (my own reasons again). I have questions and some of them are along the lines of what is discussed in that video, and I just listen to and read things about this subject to see what I can find out. I'm not one of those people who take things at face value...there's ALWAYS more to the story. Curiousity killed the cat. Etc. No offense to anyone who feels differently. I don't take ANYTHING in this world at face value...and neither should anyone else. About the only thing I DO believe in is the Bible, to be honest. K then...

cindyt, i was just reponding to Benni, i am not sure if you are addressing me in particular or the

whole board in general. i do agree with your first sentence being the most important

in a discussion.

there is an old interview where the journalist teases Prince about rumors of ritualistic goat slayings.

He doesn't seem to give it any creedance in the interview. it is on youtube at 00:38

search for Rare 1997-98 Prince and Larry Graham Interview for BBC Ozone.

sorry i can't seem to post links.

edit maybe this will work.

https://youtu.be/N6H8rKE9ydU?list=PLdf6Y_XgE8SJha8HguzU3HyfLbCggX1k7

[Edited 3/7/18 10:36am]