PeteSilas said:

jdcxc said:

herb4 said: Yes, I agree. Especially a religion with strict codes that lead to easy answers for complex issues.

i imagine any major life change can leave a person vulnerable to something like a different religion or even a cult. cults like jim jones and the moonies used to focus on colleges because in the seventies it became known that kids at school were newly isolated and vulnerable to any crazy influence like that. As for me, when my mom died it changed me permanently but i never went to a new church, i did look at everything differently, my brother had a nervous breakdown. then.., i've known plenty of people who say they didn't feel anything when their own momma died, which i think is wierd and something is wrong with them.

Leaves you vulnerable period. In a span of 18 months, I lost my Father, my step mother and my grandmother (who I was very close to and who was practically a mother to me). Also my son was born. A year later I lost my best friend and best man at my wedding to esophagous cancer brought about by acid reflux. He was 49.

Fucked me up right proper and likely, at least indirectly, led to the dissolution of my marriage not too long after. My mother attempted suicide a year ago. I still don't think I've recovered entirely. I've never been one to embrace religion of any sort but we know Prince was. I tend to think people turn to religion primarily out of fear and insecurity. Not a knock on it it just never worked for me, but Prince was consitently evoking God throughout his career.

Worth pointing out too that Prince was bascially on his own from 13 onwards and seeking security, along with sexual guidance and education. Some turn to alcohol or drugs, some deal with it fine and others find Christ in ways that absolve them of having to worry or find answers. Basically, turning to a book or a doctrine that answers everythig for them and comforts them. That fierce independent streak that Prince had - the thing that made him the star he was - also came with a price I think. Not a big surprise that he became theocratic and dogmatic as he lost more and more and became increasingly alone.

I think the death of his parents and his son explains a lot about Larry Graham was able to carve out such a significant place in Prince's life and exert a certain measure of control. I got no issues with Larry (or Prince for that matter), just pointing out that pattern fits. As time gradually healed Prince's wounds, he seemed to drift a bit from the rigid doctrines of The Rainbow Children era.

Maybe the opiates worked better, at least in an immediate sense.

first of all, sorry for all your loss, i've been there and sometimes even now, things seem like they never get better and i wonder if death would be better. anyway, we don't know what went on with Prince, my take on it, is, everyone is different and we weren't there. and yes, people do tend to fall for religion when they feel lost, absolutely. Marx called religion "the opiate of the masses" for that reason. My best friend used to be a stallion, a free spirit a rebel, but he met a woman, then he had a kid, then he got a job, gradually, it all wore him down, he too turned to church to handle it. I'm blessed, i'm strong enough not to need that, ironically, i thank god for it too because it isn't just me, it's all the experiences i've been through that made me me. Prince still surprises me with how he changed, dude was a strong man, you don't do what he did without some character and some mental toughness but on the other hand, i've seen men I considered way tougher than me end up broken into little bits by life, we all have limits. Smart man sees them and tries to adjust.

herb4 said:

PeteSilas said:

i imagine any major life change can leave a person vulnerable to something like a different religion or even a cult. cults like jim jones and the moonies used to focus on colleges because in the seventies it became known that kids at school were newly isolated and vulnerable to any crazy influence like that. As for me, when my mom died it changed me permanently but i never went to a new church, i did look at everything differently, my brother had a nervous breakdown. then.., i've known plenty of people who say they didn't feel anything when their own momma died, which i think is wierd and something is wrong with them.

Leaves you vulnerable period. In a span of 18 months, I lost my Father, my step mother and my grandmother (who I was very close to and who was practically a mother to me). Also my son was born. A year later I lost my best friend and best man at my wedding to esophagous cancer brought about by acid reflux. He was 49.

Fucked me up right proper and likely, at least indirectly, led to the dissolution of my marriage not too long after. My mother attempted suicide a year ago. I still don't think I've recovered entirely. I've never been one to embrace religion of any sort but we know Prince was. I tend to think people turn to religion primarily out of fear and insecurity. Not a knock on it it just never worked for me, but Prince was consitently evoking God throughout his career.

Worth pointing out too that Prince was bascially on his own from 13 onwards and seeking security, along with sexual guidance and education. Some turn to alcohol or drugs, some deal with it fine and others find Christ in ways that absolve them of having to worry or find answers. Basically, turning to a book or a doctrine that answers everythig for them and comforts them. That fierce independent streak that Prince had - the thing that made him the star he was - also came with a price I think. Not a big surprise that he became theocratic and dogmatic as he lost more and more and became increasingly alone.

I think the death of his parents and his son explains a lot about Larry Graham was able to carve out such a significant place in Prince's life and exert a certain measure of control. I got no issues with Larry (or Prince for that matter), just pointing out that pattern fits. As time gradually healed Prince's wounds, he seemed to drift a bit from the rigid doctrines of The Rainbow Children era.

Maybe the opiates worked better, at least in an immediate sense.

PeteSilas said:

We’ll have to agree to disagree. This is what Prince said in that 2015 Ebony interview:

PeteSilas said:

first of all, sorry for all your loss, i've been there and sometimes even now, things seem like they never get better and i wonder if death would be better. anyway, we don't know what went on with Prince, my take on it, is, everyone is different and we weren't there. and yes, people do tend to fall for religion when they feel lost, absolutely. Marx called religion "the opiate of the masses" for that reason. My best friend used to be a stallion, a free spirit a rebel, but he met a woman, then he had a kid, then he got a job, gradually, it all wore him down, he too turned to church to handle it. I'm blessed, i'm strong enough not to need that, ironically, i thank god for it too because it isn't just me, it's all the experiences i've been through that made me me. Prince still surprises me with how he changed, dude was a strong man, you don't do what he did without some character and some mental toughness but on the other hand, i've seen men I considered way tougher than me end up broken into little bits by life, we all have limits. Smart man sees them and tries to adjust.

herb4 said:

Leaves you vulnerable period. In a span of 18 months, I lost my Father, my step mother and my grandmother (who I was very close to and who was practically a mother to me). Also my son was born. A year later I lost my best friend and best man at my wedding to esophagous cancer brought about by acid reflux. He was 49.

Fucked me up right proper and likely, at least indirectly, led to the dissolution of my marriage not too long after. My mother attempted suicide a year ago. I still don't think I've recovered entirely. I've never been one to embrace religion of any sort but we know Prince was. I tend to think people turn to religion primarily out of fear and insecurity. Not a knock on it it just never worked for me, but Prince was consitently evoking God throughout his career.

Worth pointing out too that Prince was bascially on his own from 13 onwards and seeking security, along with sexual guidance and education. Some turn to alcohol or drugs, some deal with it fine and others find Christ in ways that absolve them of having to worry or find answers. Basically, turning to a book or a doctrine that answers everythig for them and comforts them. That fierce independent streak that Prince had - the thing that made him the star he was - also came with a price I think. Not a big surprise that he became theocratic and dogmatic as he lost more and more and became increasingly alone.

I think the death of his parents and his son explains a lot about Larry Graham was able to carve out such a significant place in Prince's life and exert a certain measure of control. I got no issues with Larry (or Prince for that matter), just pointing out that pattern fits. As time gradually healed Prince's wounds, he seemed to drift a bit from the rigid doctrines of The Rainbow Children era.

Maybe the opiates worked better, at least in an immediate sense.

Thanks for the kind words. Lisa Simpson called religion "the alast salvation of the truly desperate".

I wouldn't label Prince as "desperate" in any conventional sense, but I'd wager the losses he suffered, combined with his shaky uprbringing, left him more vulnerable than he was comfortable letting on. He was quite strong but ultimately human.

PeteSilas said:

rogifan said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said: Hannah, Ida and Shelby (among others) attended this JW service which Larry Graham spoke at. Shelby said went because she wanted to honor his faith. When Chicago journalist Greg Kot interviewed Prince in 2012 Prince talked about not being able to attend his local Kingdom Hall because of touring and how non-judgemental the people there were when he went back. So at least as of 2012 he was still attending services. It seems like it’s mostly people who aren’t religious (or at least don’t care for JW) pushing this notion that Prince was moving away from it. [Edited 2/14/18 17:07pm]

the jw's are some of the most strict people out there, no fornication, nothing but missionary position sex, no oral, no masturbation, no music, no movies, and they will disfellowship a person for anything. that means you get kicked out and are ostracized, you can still come to services but no one can talk to you. they also do not look favorably upon occultic things like astral projection and stuff like 'way back home' which suggests the persistence of spirit past the fleshly life, jw's don't believe life exists after death and that there will be a resurrection and 1000 year period after which 144,000 will be judged to be good enough to live forever. that's what i remember, i could have a few things off but that's pretty much it. any talk of psychic or occult shit would get you in trouble so Prince's talking to dead people as he claimed to do would have been very frowned upon.

Yeah, well fuck that.

rogifan said:

We’ll have to agree to disagree. This is what Prince said in that 2015 Ebony interview:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/housequake/prince-hits-n-runs-n-talks-ebony-interview-dec-22-2015/916986788385046/ “I was telling a friend of mine who was here was that I wouldn’t have met Josh if it wasn’t for faith. We wouldn’t have had nothing in common. He’d have thought I was crazy, and vice versa. Religion, when used properly, actually is like a health regimen. And they’re finding now that people who have faith live longer. I mean, it says so in the book. That’s what it’s supposed to be. You ain’t supposed to die. If there’s God, then that’s what God would be.” EBONY: What do you say to people who are more spiritual than religious? Prince: “That’s okay. Because eventually they’re gonna get more responsibility. And that’s where religion will come into it. Because you have to have some sort of glue that’s gonna keep people honorable. Even if you’re thieves. And that’s what religion is. It’s order. Just think about it like that. The word’s been muddied. We forget what it was in the beginning. Did you see Tut?”

Rogi, its okay. P did not die a heathen.

Lighten up.

Exactly. NOt one person has said that P lost his faith. Opening your mind to religion in a different way is how people grow. Being stagnant and beholden to a strict doctrine without thinking it through is not what keeps one locked into their connection to God. Religion providing order doesn't mean it can never be examined. There wouldn't be much to talk about between P and that kid if Prince was just spouting jW doctrine. They were not both JW's after all.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

rogifan said:

Rogi, its okay. P did not die a heathen.

Lighten up.

[Edited 2/15/18 20:23pm]

purplerabbithole said:

All I did was provide a quote from the man himself of his views on religion. Do you have an issue with what he said?

herb4 said:

PeteSilas said:

first of all, sorry for all your loss, i've been there and sometimes even now, things seem like they never get better and i wonder if death would be better. anyway, we don't know what went on with Prince, my take on it, is, everyone is different and we weren't there. and yes, people do tend to fall for religion when they feel lost, absolutely. Marx called religion "the opiate of the masses" for that reason. My best friend used to be a stallion, a free spirit a rebel, but he met a woman, then he had a kid, then he got a job, gradually, it all wore him down, he too turned to church to handle it. I'm blessed, i'm strong enough not to need that, ironically, i thank god for it too because it isn't just me, it's all the experiences i've been through that made me me. Prince still surprises me with how he changed, dude was a strong man, you don't do what he did without some character and some mental toughness but on the other hand, i've seen men I considered way tougher than me end up broken into little bits by life, we all have limits. Smart man sees them and tries to adjust.

Thanks for the kind words. Lisa Simpson called religion "the alast salvation of the truly desperate".

I wouldn't label Prince as "desperate" in any conventional sense, but I'd wager the losses he suffered, combined with his shaky uprbringing, left him more vulnerable than he was comfortable letting on. He was quite strong but ultimately human.

He was attending 7th day Adventist Church as a child. Plenty of people are Christians without being desperate.

laurarichardson said:

herb4 said:

Thanks for the kind words. Lisa Simpson called religion "the alast salvation of the truly desperate".

I wouldn't label Prince as "desperate" in any conventional sense, but I'd wager the losses he suffered, combined with his shaky uprbringing, left him more vulnerable than he was comfortable letting on. He was quite strong but ultimately human.

He was attending 7th day Adventist Church as a child. Plenty of people are Christians without being desperate.

.

Exactly. What does religion have to do with being desperate? You can be an Atheist and be desperate, so it makes no difference which side you are on.

cloveringold85 said:

laurarichardson said:

He was attending 7th day Adventist Church as a child. Plenty of people are Christians without being desperate.

.

Exactly. What does religion have to do with being desperate? You can be an Atheist and be desperate, so it makes no difference which side you are on.

we were conjecturing whether all the death in his life opened him up to the JW's. Those kinds of life changes can leave you open to what I think of as manipulative religions. We don't know, but it's a possibility, it's also a possibility that a conservative reaction came after a wild past too. That happens all the time, just go to any christian church and listen to all their bullshit testimonies. Seems like all of them were the dregs of sinners, most of them did things I never did and they ostracized me, which is why i learned not to trust christians. I didn't like all the gossip, all the shame, all the judgement, all the hypocrisy and I saw it all for what it was first hand.

PeteSilas said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Exactly. What does religion have to do with being desperate? You can be an Atheist and be desperate, so it makes no difference which side you are on.

we were conjecturing whether all the death in his life opened him up to the JW's. Those kinds of life changes can leave you open to what I think of as manipulative religions. We don't know, but it's a possibility, it's also a possibility that a conservative reaction came after a wild past too. That happens all the time, just go to any christian church and listen to all their bullshit testimonies. Seems like all of them were the dregs of sinners, most of them did things I never did and they ostracized me, which is why i learned not to trust christians. I didn't like all the gossip, all the shame, all the judgement, all the hypocrisy and I saw it all for what it was first hand.

.

Yes, but the same could be said about anyone, regardless if they are Christian or not. I find most people to be too-faced, liars, evil, and phony and will stab you in the back any chance they get. I would rather surround myself with a pack of Dog's than humans on any given day. Dogs will love you, unconditionally. They don't care about the house you live in, or how much money you have.

.

Every one of us are sinners. We all lose our way sometimes; that is life.

.

[Edited 2/16/18 11:53am]

cloveringold85 said:

PeteSilas said:

we were conjecturing whether all the death in his life opened him up to the JW's. Those kinds of life changes can leave you open to what I think of as manipulative religions. We don't know, but it's a possibility, it's also a possibility that a conservative reaction came after a wild past too. That happens all the time, just go to any christian church and listen to all their bullshit testimonies. Seems like all of them were the dregs of sinners, most of them did things I never did and they ostracized me, which is why i learned not to trust christians. I didn't like all the gossip, all the shame, all the judgement, all the hypocrisy and I saw it all for what it was first hand.

.

Yes, but the same could be said about anyone, regardless if they are Christian or not. I find most people to be too-faced, liars and phoney and will stab you in the back any chance they get. I would rather surround myself with a pack of Dog's than humans on any given day. Dogs will love you, unconditionally. They don't care about the house you live in, or how much money you have.

i'm with you, more than you know, i hate people, absolutely hate them. I can definitely relate to prince's way back home "so many reasons why I don't belong here". I don't feel like the rest of them and I don't want to be nothing like them. But.., church breeds those bastards, breeds hypocrisy, breeds all that bad shit. At least when guys in the steel mills and work places i've been in cut my throat, they didn't smile when they did it, they never pretended to want to save me from anything, they never judged me they didn't really care, but ya, they dogged me too. I'd rather be around the guys in the steel mill.

PeteSilas said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yes, but the same could be said about anyone, regardless if they are Christian or not. I find most people to be too-faced, liars and phoney and will stab you in the back any chance they get. I would rather surround myself with a pack of Dog's than humans on any given day. Dogs will love you, unconditionally. They don't care about the house you live in, or how much money you have.

i'm with you, more than you know, i hate people, absolutely hate them. I can definitely relate to prince's way back home "so many reasons why I don't belong here". I don't feel like the rest of them and I don't want to be nothing like them. But.., church breeds those bastards, breeds hypocrisy, breeds all that bad shit. At least when guys in the steel mills and work places i've been in cut my throat, they didn't smile when they did it, they never pretended to want to save me from anything, they never judged me they didn't really care, but ya, they dogged me too. I'd rather be around the guys in the steel mill.

.

People can be so cruel sometimes, and not trustworthy. I think Prince started to build walls around himself because he had very few people he could trust anymore. Same could be said about MJ.

.

What I don't like is how some people hide behind the shield of religion, but then they go out in the streets and commit the most heinous crimes, then go about their business and think that God is going to forgive them and they justify it by saying they are saved. Wrong. I stay away from these born-again Christians. They are the worst, and shady! You have to be cautious of those types.

GOD ❤️ does not punish people.
We do it to ourselves.
The way we are dictates what we get back from others or our health, etc.

PeteSilas said:

cloveringold85 said:

PeteSilas said:

i'm with you, more than you know, i hate people, absolutely hate them. I can definitely relate to prince's way back home "so many reasons why I don't belong here". I don't feel like the rest of them and I don't want to be nothing like them. But.., church breeds those bastards, breeds hypocrisy, breeds all that bad shit. At least when guys in the steel mills and work places i've been in cut my throat, they didn't smile when they did it, they never pretended to want to save me from anything, they never judged me they didn't really care, but ya, they dogged me too. I'd rather be around the guys in the steel mill.

.

People can be so cruel sometimes, and not trustworthy. I think Prince started to build walls around himself because he had very few people he could trust anymore. Same could be said about MJ.

.

What I don't like is how some people hide behind the shield of religion, but then they go out in the streets and commit the most heinous crimes, then go about their business and think that God is going to forgive them and they justify it by saying they are saved. Wrong. I stay away from these born-again Christians. They are the worst, and shady! You have to be cautious of those types.

obviously i wouldn't say all those christians are bad but enough of them are that i want to avoid the whole lot if you know what I mean.

i think it's all a mystery. I was just watching some Neil Degrasse Tyson and Elon Musk who think we live in a simulation, I thought it was real fucking funny that Tyson hates god, won't hear anything about a creator but is willing to believe that we were created by some "snot nosed kid in his parent's basement". bizarre, just goes to show, none of us are that smart.

anangellooksdown said:

GOD ❤️ does not punish people. We do it to ourselves. The way we are dictates what we get back from others or our health, etc. PeteSilas said:

i don't know if god would take revenge for those things or not, just repeating what i heard and how people think. Prince, i'm sure, was truly spiritual and i'm sure that haunted him not only with the things he said and the mocking of god but also how he treated people.

rogifan said:

People who really seek and LIVE a God-centered life the best they can as humans, eventually grow to religion and meld both that and spirituality together, growing in both.

P started off with religion but some spirituality, then after beautiful Ahmir passed, he threw himself into a structured tenet system (religion). I have always believed that, and Larry Graham, saved his life.

He was very enthusiastic during this years because of what he had found and how it was helping him. We know that. It is very, very common, and probably always the case, when people are truly trying.

But as we grow, we realize that shouting our beliefs from a rooftop, or basically pushing them on others, is less helpful. It’s a process. He also knew that using social media to talk about spiritual or religious ideas, would turn people away. As always, he let his music speak for him.

Re: Sheila.
She is amazing and she is love.
I think she’s also very feeling, sensitive.
It seems to me that Prince was with a number of girlfriends who were bisexual when he was with them.

Oh. And I don’t think Prince regretted much of what he did career-wise. 🙂

anangellooksdown said:

Oh. And I don’t think Prince regretted much of what he did career-wise. 🙂

i wouldn't believe that, i think anyone who says they don't regret anything would be lying. We all make mistakes that we wish we could go back and change but we can't.

I still remember prince changing his twitter avatar to the closed eyes with a tear
[Edited 2/16/18 13:35pm]

anangellooksdown said:

Prince banned me from his twitter account after I asked him to caption the pic above.I'm not mad though.at least I can say I had his attention

PeteSilas said:

There are people who don’t regret their pasts.

dance4me3121 said:

There ya go. You’re someone who isn’t mad cuz something came of it.
Funny story! 😃
It’s true, I am surprised he reacted like that, and it shows that he read what ppl wrote. I feel he has grown even more now, that he would just let the comment sit.

anangellooksdown said:

dance4me3121 said:

Prince banned me from his twitter account after I asked him to caption the pic above.I'm not mad though.at least I can say I had his attention

There ya go. You’re someone who isn’t mad cuz something came of it. Funny story! 😃 It’s true, I am surprised he reacted like that, and it shows that he read what ppl wrote. I feel he has grown even more now, that he would just let the comment sit.

yeah it was very dumb on my part.But i was joking the whole time thinking he would find it funny also.As much as i love Prince,I couldnt ever be mad at him.I heard that it was actually Prince who used his own twitter account and that he actually visited the org a lot to read comments.I wouldve loved to see his reactions

dance4me3121 said:

Obviously you have a heart of gold, and a lot of humility.
You are love.

I once heard of P getting upset with a girl, the girl didn’t sleep for a month. I can understand that too!

Yes I saw one time where he would come and ask folks opinions about music, what they wanted to hear etc, this was around Musicology era.
I think he was really focused on the music.
And what we liked.

cloveringold85 said:

I would disagree. I don't feel Prince struggled in the least believing that God (or Jehovah, Allah, etc., as the case may be) was greater than all else. Further, he wanted no part of idolatry. Aamof, he said this about why he would not sign autographs: "Among his idiosyncracies is a refusal to sign autographs, reportedly because he believes the idolatry that an autograph implies is ‘an offence’ against God". Sourced here: http://www.telegraph.co.u...off-stage/

It's a long article, but very interesting.

PeteSilas said:

206Michelle said:

While Prince did become interested in the JW doctrine in the late 90s, he officially converted and was baptized in 2003, per the statement the JW organization put out after his death (end of post). The death of his Mother in Feb of 2002, who had converted from an SDA to following JW scripture, could have played a part in his decision. There is speculation (or perhaps rumor) that his Mother expressed her desire that he become a follower prior to her death.

This info: "Prince was raised a Seventh Day Adventist and then later a Baptist. His mother, Mattie Shaw later converted to being a Jehovah's Witness, as was family friend Larry Graham, bass player from Sly and the Family Stone. His baby son Gregory, born to his first wife Mayte Garciain, died from a genetic disorder of the skull called Pfieffer syndrome October 1996, seven dies after birth. In 2001, his father died and "Princes mother, the jazz singer Mattie Shaw, died six months later. Her final wish was said to be that her son should become a Jehovahs Witness as she had been for most of her life. Prince grappled with depression and something approaching a midlife crisis." (mirror.co.uk 1 July 2010) This helps explain his interest in the Witnesses around this period and conversion with his wife Manuela Testolini in 2001, and baptism in 2003.

Manuela filed for divorce in 2006. In 2007 Prince started dating Bria Valente, who converted to a Witness after he produced her first album."

Sourced here: http://www.jwfacts.com/wa...nesses.php

I cannot attest to whether or not the above is factual as I pulled the quote directly from the site (it was obviously printed before Mayte revealed Amiir's birth name and there are a few discrepancies) and can't confirm it's JW accredited; however, it is interesting that his Mother was a JW and considering that, her "request" prior to her death might not be so off base.

JW statement from church spokesperson, David A. Semonian - "We are saddened to hear about the death of Prince Rogers Nelson, who was baptized as one of Jehovah s Witnesses in 2003,”....
Sourced here: http://people.com/celebri...statement/