jdcxc said:

herb4 said:

Important to note also that Prince's intense spike in JW spirituality coincided with the death of both of his parents - and not too terribly long after the death of his son. That's a hell of a whallop. I speak from experience.

Yes, I agree. Especially a religion with strict codes that lead to easy answers for complex issues.

i imagine any major life change can leave a person vulnerable to something like a different religion or even a cult. cults like jim jones and the moonies used to focus on colleges because in the seventies it became known that kids at school were newly isolated and vulnerable to any crazy influence like that. As for me, when my mom died it changed me permanently but i never went to a new church, i did look at everything differently, my brother had a nervous breakdown. then.., i've known plenty of people who say they didn't feel anything when their own momma died, which i think is wierd and something is wrong with them.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

rogifan said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

The JWs did this after his passing because they thought they were left his Estate.

Hannah, Ida and Shelby (among others) attended this JW service which Larry Graham spoke at. Shelby said went because she wanted to honor his faith. When Chicago journalist Greg Kot interviewed Prince in 2012 Prince talked about not being able to attend his local Kingdom Hall because of touring and how non-judgemental the people there were when he went back. So at least as of 2012 he was still attending services. It seems like it’s mostly people who aren’t religious (or at least don’t care for JW) pushing this notion that Prince was moving away from it. [Edited 2/14/18 17:07pm]

the jw's are some of the most strict people out there, no fornication, nothing but missionary position sex, no oral, no masturbation, no music, no movies, and they will disfellowship a person for anything. that means you get kicked out and are ostracized, you can still come to services but no one can talk to you. they also do not look favorably upon occultic things like astral projection and stuff like 'way back home' which suggests the persistence of spirit past the fleshly life, jw's don't believe life exists after death and that there will be a resurrection and 1000 year period after which 144,000 will be judged to be good enough to live forever. that's what i remember, i could have a few things off but that's pretty much it. any talk of psychic or occult shit would get you in trouble so Prince's talking to dead people as he claimed to do would have been very frowned upon.

PeteSilas said:

jdcxc said:

herb4 said: Yes, I agree. Especially a religion with strict codes that lead to easy answers for complex issues.

i imagine any major life change can leave a person vulnerable to something like a different religion or even a cult. cults like jim jones and the moonies used to focus on colleges because in the seventies it became known that kids at school were newly isolated and vulnerable to any crazy influence like that. As for me, when my mom died it changed me permanently but i never went to a new church, i did look at everything differently, my brother had a nervous breakdown. then.., i've known plenty of people who say they didn't feel anything when their own momma died, which i think is wierd and something is wrong with them.

.

I'm sorry you lost your Mom. The day I lost my Mother was the absolute worst day of my life!!

PeteSilas said:

rogifan said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said: Hannah, Ida and Shelby (among others) attended this JW service which Larry Graham spoke at. Shelby said went because she wanted to honor his faith. When Chicago journalist Greg Kot interviewed Prince in 2012 Prince talked about not being able to attend his local Kingdom Hall because of touring and how non-judgemental the people there were when he went back. So at least as of 2012 he was still attending services. It seems like it’s mostly people who aren’t religious (or at least don’t care for JW) pushing this notion that Prince was moving away from it. [Edited 2/14/18 17:07pm]

the jw's are some of the most strict people out there, no fornication, nothing but missionary position sex, no oral, no masturbation, no music, no movies, and they will disfellowship a person for anything. that means you get kicked out and are ostracized, you can still come to services but no one can talk to you. they also do not look favorably upon occultic things like astral projection and stuff like 'way back home' which suggests the persistence of spirit past the fleshly life, jw's don't believe life exists after death and that there will be a resurrection and 1000 year period after which 144,000 will be judged to be good enough to live forever. that's what i remember, i could have a few things off but that's pretty much it. any talk of psychic or occult shit would get you in trouble so Prince's talking to dead people as he claimed to do would have been very frowned upon.

.

Well, if that is the case, Prince wasn't a true JW then.

.

Prince was a movie buff!!

cloveringold85 said:

PeteSilas said:

the jw's are some of the most strict people out there, no fornication, nothing but missionary position sex, no oral, no masturbation, no music, no movies, and they will disfellowship a person for anything. that means you get kicked out and are ostracized, you can still come to services but no one can talk to you. they also do not look favorably upon occultic things like astral projection and stuff like 'way back home' which suggests the persistence of spirit past the fleshly life, jw's don't believe life exists after death and that there will be a resurrection and 1000 year period after which 144,000 will be judged to be good enough to live forever. that's what i remember, i could have a few things off but that's pretty much it. any talk of psychic or occult shit would get you in trouble so Prince's talking to dead people as he claimed to do would have been very frowned upon.

.

Well, if that is the case, Prince wasn't a true JW then.

.

Prince was a movie buff!!

ya, i'm probably not right about everything in that list, it's been over 30 years since i really studied the religion but i'd say i'm close, maybe an actual JW here will correct me.

jdcxc said:

206Michelle said:

jdcxc said:

Yes, I agree. Especially a religion with strict codes that lead to easy answers for complex issues.

Herb4, he didn’t convert to the JW faith officially until 2001, but he was clearly considering the JW faith seriously in the late 1990s. Per Mayte’s book, Amiir’s death was the catalyst for the intense soul-searching, not the deaths of his parents. This is not to minimize the deaths of his parents in any way. However, his parents were both older when they died...they were each able to live for decades. Parents dying in old age is more normal and expected than an infant dying six days after birth. jdcxc

how do we know in any case. everyone is different, one woman can be suicidal over a stillborn baby, another won't have much reaction. and as for parents, same thing, some people go off the deep end when they lose a parent. And also, the craziness of that business might have had prince longing for some form of structure and sanity, it's a nutty business. The fans hated the conversion and to us it just seems like a free spirit like Prince needed anything controlling him as antithetical to everything we loved about him. So, that's why I say, the real Prince was there all along and he was coming out more at the end.

rogifan said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

The JWs did this after his passing because they thought they were left his Estate.

Hannah, Ida and Shelby (among others) attended this JW service which Larry Graham spoke at. Shelby said went because she wanted to honor his faith. When Chicago journalist Greg Kot interviewed Prince in 2012 Prince talked about not being able to attend his local Kingdom Hall because of touring and how non-judgemental the people there were when he went back. So at least as of 2012 he was still attending services. It seems like it’s mostly people who aren’t religious (or at least don’t care for JW) pushing this notion that Prince was moving away from it. [Edited 2/14/18 17:07pm]

According to the JWs at his Kingdom Hall he was still attending in March of 2016.

He was raised as a 7 Day Adventist and if anyone thinks he was not a Christian I guess you were not listing to some of his lyrics.

laurarichardson said:

jdcxc said:

Unique “Way Back Home” analysis from artist who claims spiritual metaphysical link to Prince...interesting to say the least: http://andreamaicreative....pretation/

Not sure is it 'unique' analysis of WayBackHome ( + author's mystification of connection to Prince's soul is pretty bland... girl is really going places on that site), but aside that, writing of that kind just shows the greatness of Prince's spirit... and it is intresting from that aspect.

jdcxc said:

laurarichardson said:

According to the JWs at his Kingdom Hall he was still attending in March of 2016.

He was raised as a 7 Day Adventist and if anyone thinks he was not a Christian I guess you were not listing to some of his lyrics.

Who said he wasn’t a christian? Just because he was exploring other spiritual ideas doesn’t mean he joined another religion. And he was vocally against organized religion for most of his early career, up until at least that Chris Rock interview.

Others have implied since he died that he was moving away from Christianity.

People change their minds as they get older.

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said: Hannah, Ida and Shelby (among others) attended this JW service which Larry Graham spoke at. Shelby said went because she wanted to honor his faith. When Chicago journalist Greg Kot interviewed Prince in 2012 Prince talked about not being able to attend his local Kingdom Hall because of touring and how non-judgemental the people there were when he went back. So at least as of 2012 he was still attending services. It seems like it’s mostly people who aren’t religious (or at least don’t care for JW) pushing this notion that Prince was moving away from it. [Edited 2/14/18 17:07pm]

According to the JWs at his Kingdom Hall he was still attending in March of 2016.

He was raised as a 7 Day Adventist and if anyone thinks he was not a Christian I guess you were not listing to some of his lyrics.

I just think that Prince was not checking his brain at the door anymore when he went to Kingdom Hall. He might have been adjusting his approach to worship --branching out, seeing parallels in other religions, not as strictly obedient, embracing the dogma but not all of the stricter tenets of the doctrine.. The fact that he expected folks to give him shit for not attending could imply that even he thought they were a bit too strict and cut and dry. Prince was given leeway probably because of his fame, but really everyone should be given the same leeway--I doubt that is the case though.

BTW, when someone says "We missed you"...it can imply that they are throwing subtle shade at you. The reality is that Pricne was talking about believing in shakra's, had stated that religions are not so good when they are judgemental (something to that effect in his 2014 or 2015 Rolling Stone interview), was writing songs like Same Page, Different book (which talks about the parallel concepts of the major monotheolistic relgions and how we should not fight), he owned the New Oxford Bible and other books about other major religions. He was not preachy or even focusing on even subtle references to JW beliefs on his twitter page..he wasnt' stating theocratic-sexist crap anymore (except for the slip-up about burkas which I believe was misunderstood) and even implied that we were living in the "Feminine aspect" right now (as a good thing.) The Prince of 2010 and on was not in some important ways the prince of 2001 or 2004.

[Edited 2/15/18 12:02pm]

laurarichardson said:

purplerabbithole said:

No, I am saying that he wasn't as overly zealous and close minded. I don't believe its that easy to be brainwashed if one doesn't want to be--unless that is, you have no resources or just went through a serious emotional breakdown or loss. I think maybe he was a bit brainwashed by his upbringing and older men in his life (dad, LG) but I don't blame the JW's as a religion.

I am sure many of the people at the Hall were more genuine than media vultures but it is a religion that has some doctrines I find offensive, and if Prince was deciding to think for himself where those beliefs are concerned, I can't say that it doesn't make me happy. I have said that no religious dogma (its fundamental spiritual beliefs) has ever offended me. Its the doctrine (its beliefs and teachings on society/lifestyles/politics) at times that does.. All I am saying is that it is a good sign for true empathy/open-mindedness if one is willing to admit to themselves when their religion has been a bit unfair or harsh at times. It shows a flexibility and adjustment of beliefs when they conflict with humane treatment of others and empathy of those who are different than one's self. I am hoping that Prince was willing to realize that those not in the JW faith or living the same lifestyle are as good as the nicest of his brethren.

rogifan said:

purplerabbithole said:

I’m not sure what you mean by “checking his brain at the door”. Are you suggesting JW were brainwashing him? Anyway the context of his comments in that 2012 interview was around unfair criticism and media & others writing him off. Basically he was comparing the people at his Kingdom Hall favorably to media vultures.

It troubled him when people started to write him off in the '90s, when the hits dried up and he began playing smaller venues, partially by design. "I had a former band member tell the media, 'He'll never play arenas again,'” Prince says. "Now why would someone want to go and say a thing like that?" The singer gets defiant. "That's like telling Michael Jordan he can't play any more. Like telling Ali he's washed up." Despite the bravado, he circles back to the topic later in the conversation. He'd like to suggest that the criticism bounces off him, that he's tougher than that. But he doesn't forget. The hurt lingers. He describes letters that the Chicago singer Mavis Staples wrote him in the '80s when they began working together on a couple of her solo albums: "They were so full of encouragement. You don't get much of that in this business."

[Edited 2/15/18 12:02pm]

[Edited 2/15/18 12:20pm]

[Edited 2/15/18 12:23pm]

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:

Others have implied since he died that he was moving away from Christianity.

People change their minds as they get older.

Seems like projection from people who either aren’t religious or are against any form of organized religion. I’ve seen it on FB too.

and why not? organized religion is bullshit.

you're dead on about a person being more open at certain times to being brainwashed than they are at others. Cults know this which is why groups like the Moonies try to exhaust new recruits with exercise and sleep deprivation so that they become malleable. But I think a huge factor is a persons upbringing, you get raised to believe in heaven, hell, god, the devil and there is a real good chance you'll never completely get away from that even if you logically outgrow it. It is kind of sad seeing people raise their kids in a strict religion because you know it's limiting them for a lifetime however, i don't agree with Bill Nye who tried to tell parents not to teach their kids religion, white people are like that, think they can tell people how to raise their kids when it's none of their business.

purplerabbithole said:

No, I am saying that he wasn't as overly zealous and close minded. I don't believe its that easy to be brainwashed if one doesn't want to be--unless that is, you have no resources or just went through a serious emotional breakdown or loss. I think maybe he was a bit brainwashed by his upbringing and older men in his life (dad, LG) but I don't blame the JW's as a religion.

I am sure many of the people at the Hall were more genuine than media vultures but it is a religion that has some doctrines I find offensive, and if Prince was deciding to think for himself where those beliefs are concerned, I can't say that it doesn't make me happy. I have said that no religious dogma (its fundamental spiritual beliefs) has ever offended me. Its the doctrine (its beliefs and teachings on society/lifestyles/politics) at times that does.. All I am saying is that it is a good sign for true empathy/open-mindedness if one is willing to admit to themselves when their religion has been a bit unfair or harsh at times. It shows a flexibility and adjustment of beliefs when they conflict with humane treatment of others and empathy of those who are different than one's self. I am hoping that Prince was willing to realize that those not in the JW faith or living the same lifestyle are as good as the nicest of his brethren.

rogifan said:

purplerabbithole said:

[Edited 2/15/18 12:20pm]

[Edited 2/15/18 12:23pm]

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said: Hannah, Ida and Shelby (among others) attended this JW service which Larry Graham spoke at. Shelby said went because she wanted to honor his faith. When Chicago journalist Greg Kot interviewed Prince in 2012 Prince talked about not being able to attend his local Kingdom Hall because of touring and how non-judgemental the people there were when he went back. So at least as of 2012 he was still attending services. It seems like it’s mostly people who aren’t religious (or at least don’t care for JW) pushing this notion that Prince was moving away from it. [Edited 2/14/18 17:07pm]

According to the JWs at his Kingdom Hall he was still attending in March of 2016.

He was raised as a 7 Day Adventist and if anyone thinks he was not a Christian I guess you were not listing to some of his lyrics.

.

It seems that Prince traded one cult (the music industry) for another (JW).

purplerabbithole said:

laurarichardson said:

According to the JWs at his Kingdom Hall he was still attending in March of 2016.

He was raised as a 7 Day Adventist and if anyone thinks he was not a Christian I guess you were not listing to some of his lyrics.

I just think that Prince was not checking his brain at the door anymore when he went to Kingdom Hall. He might have been adjusting his approach to worship --branching out, seeing parallels in other religions, not as strictly obedient, embracing the dogma but not all of the stricter tenets of the doctrine.. The fact that he expected folks to give him shit for not attending could imply that even he thought they were a bit too strict and cut and dry. Prince was given leeway probably because of his fame, but really everyone should be given the same leeway--I doubt that is the case though.

BTW, when someone says "We missed you"...it can imply that they are throwing subtle shade at you. The reality is that Pricne was talking about believing in shakra's, had stated that religions are not so good when they are judgemental (something to that effect in his 2014 or 2015 Rolling Stone interview), was writing songs like Same Page, Different book (which talks about the parallel concepts of the major monotheolistic relgions and how we should not fight), he owned the New Oxford Bible and other books about other major religions. He was not preachy or even focusing on even subtle references to JW beliefs on his twitter page..he wasnt' stating theocratic-sexist crap anymore (except for the slip-up about burkas which I believe was misunderstood) and even implied that we were living in the "Feminine aspect" right now (as a good thing.) The Prince of 2010 and on was not in some important ways the prince of 2001 or 2004.

[Edited 2/15/18 12:02pm]

.

But, see that is just the problem. Because the JW faith would not open their arms to someone like Prince, who was a Rock God (false idol) -- this goes against their teachings. JW is a cult, not a religion -- they don't follow what the Bible teaches us -- they make up their own rules. JW is not a Christian faith.

.

I think this was one of Prince's biggest problems -- because he decided to pick and choose what he wanted out of religion -- that's not how it works.

.

I'm not saying he wasn't a God-loving Man, because he was a Christian and believe in our savior, Jesus Christ. But the JW doesn't pray to the same God that I do, or most people do.

.

I do think that Prince was becoming more spiritual in his last years. Being spiritual is not the same as being religious.

PeteSilas said:

you're dead on about a person being more open at certain times to being brainwashed than they are at others. Cults know this which is why groups like the Moonies try to exhaust new recruits with exercise and sleep deprivation so that they become malleable. But I think a huge factor is a persons upbringing, you get raised to believe in heaven, hell, god, the devil and there is a real good chance you'll never completely get away from that even if you logically outgrow it. It is kind of sad seeing people raise their kids in a strict religion because you know it's limiting them for a lifetime however, i don't agree with Bill Nye who tried to tell parents not to teach their kids religion, white people are like that, think they can tell people how to raise their kids when it's none of their business.

purplerabbithole said:

No, I am saying that he wasn't as overly zealous and close minded. I don't believe its that easy to be brainwashed if one doesn't want to be--unless that is, you have no resources or just went through a serious emotional breakdown or loss. I think maybe he was a bit brainwashed by his upbringing and older men in his life (dad, LG) but I don't blame the JW's as a religion.

I am sure many of the people at the Hall were more genuine than media vultures but it is a religion that has some doctrines I find offensive, and if Prince was deciding to think for himself where those beliefs are concerned, I can't say that it doesn't make me happy. I have said that no religious dogma (its fundamental spiritual beliefs) has ever offended me. Its the doctrine (its beliefs and teachings on society/lifestyles/politics) at times that does.. All I am saying is that it is a good sign for true empathy/open-mindedness if one is willing to admit to themselves when their religion has been a bit unfair or harsh at times. It shows a flexibility and adjustment of beliefs when they conflict with humane treatment of others and empathy of those who are different than one's self. I am hoping that Prince was willing to realize that those not in the JW faith or living the same lifestyle are as good as the nicest of his brethren.

[Edited 2/15/18 12:20pm]

[Edited 2/15/18 12:23pm]

.

I don't think religion should be about brainwashing. I think if parents raise their kids with a good foundation for life, which is having respect, morals and values and belief that we should cherish life as a gift from God and respect the church. I was raised Roman-Catholic and it is my faith that has gotten me through some of the worst times in my life. I think that Prince was just trying to do the same. After he lost his Son, he thought he was being punished by God for his sins. He turned to God for solace and strength, and he became a much better Man for it.

.

I think Prince was turning away from the JW, because he was not living fully as a JW. I don't agree with any of these cult-like churches. I believe in the Holy Bible -- you don't try and re-write the Bible. You just don't.

well, i don't believe in the bible or the koran i see both as very destructive forces in the modern world and as a native american, catholicism was tragic for us. I pray, I try to be a better person, I try to be good to people, outside of that, I don't worry about heaven or hell, you shouldn't need all that to scare you into being a certain way. Prince, thank god, was drifting away from the dogma which is obvious because JW's, as I said, do not believe in the existence past death until the ressurection and so his stories of speaking to dead relatives and his soul leaving his body, to me, just indicates how close to death he was in the final months.

cloveringold85 said:

PeteSilas said:

you're dead on about a person being more open at certain times to being brainwashed than they are at others. Cults know this which is why groups like the Moonies try to exhaust new recruits with exercise and sleep deprivation so that they become malleable. But I think a huge factor is a persons upbringing, you get raised to believe in heaven, hell, god, the devil and there is a real good chance you'll never completely get away from that even if you logically outgrow it. It is kind of sad seeing people raise their kids in a strict religion because you know it's limiting them for a lifetime however, i don't agree with Bill Nye who tried to tell parents not to teach their kids religion, white people are like that, think they can tell people how to raise their kids when it's none of their business.

.

I don't think religion should be about brainwashing. I think if parents raise their kids with a good foundation for life, which is having respect, morals and values and belief that we should cherish life as a gift from God and respect the church. I was raised Roman-Catholic and it is my faith that has gotten me through some of the worst times in my life. I think that Prince was just trying to do the same. After he lost his Son, he thought he was being punished by God for his sins. He turned to God for solace and strength, and he became a much better Man for it.

.

I think Prince was turning away from the JW, because he was not living fully as a JW. I don't agree with any of these cult-like churches. I believe in the Holy Bible -- you don't try and re-write the Bible. You just don't.

PeteSilas said:

well, i don't believe in the bible or the koran i see both as very destructive forces in the modern world and as a native american, catholicism was tragic for us. I pray, I try to be a better person, I try to be good to people, outside of that, I don't worry about heaven or hell, you shouldn't need all that to scare you into being a certain way. Prince, thank god, was drifting away from the dogma which is obvious because JW's, as I said, do not believe in the existence past death until the ressurection and so his stories of speaking to dead relatives and his soul leaving his body, to me, just indicates how close to death he was in the final months.

cloveringold85 said:

.

I don't think religion should be about brainwashing. I think if parents raise their kids with a good foundation for life, which is having respect, morals and values and belief that we should cherish life as a gift from God and respect the church. I was raised Roman-Catholic and it is my faith that has gotten me through some of the worst times in my life. I think that Prince was just trying to do the same. After he lost his Son, he thought he was being punished by God for his sins. He turned to God for solace and strength, and he became a much better Man for it.

.

I think Prince was turning away from the JW, because he was not living fully as a JW. I don't agree with any of these cult-like churches. I believe in the Holy Bible -- you don't try and re-write the Bible. You just don't.

[Edited 2/16/18 10:57am]

jdcxc said:

Who was in charge bside that twitter account?

stpaisios said:

Who was in charge bside that twitter account?

no one has said, it's still mysterious how the picture with him with both eyes closed and the third eye open got there, but, like i've said all along, i think he knew his time was limited. I can't see him, with all the trouble he had in his last week thinking "well, i'm gonna die, i'm gonna commision the graphic designer to make a dead me now" just off the cuff.