Has anyone heard this earlier version???

recorded with Pepe... I don't think so, unless it is under a different name and I overlooked it

An early version of the song featuring André Cymone on lead vocals was recorded on 17 February 1979 at Music Farm Studios in New York, during a day of sessions led by Pepé Willie intended for Tony Silvester, leader of the group The Main Ingredient to use as demos for Little Anthony and the Imperials, who he wanted to produce (the one-day session also produced If You Feel Like Dancin', I Feel For You, Thrill You Or Kill You and With You), although Do Me, Baby was recorded with extra studio time and was not intended for use by Silvester.

http://princevault.com/index.php?title=Do_Me,_Baby


EG

Andre has mentioned it a few times in various interviews. It wasn't necessarily recorded with Pepe, but it is supposed to have been recorded during leftover time already paid for during sessions he was producing.

The question I would like the answer to is how much of it did Andre write and how much did Prince? From the way it sounds, it was a bit of a collab.

InwardJim said:

databank said:

laurarichardson said:

databank said:

According to Princevault, Andre is the sole author, which means that sources said that Prince didn't alter the composition significantly. But it's always possible that new info (or the original recording) surfaces at a later date.

—No it was Eddie Hazel. The song is Frantic moment. https://m.youtube.com/wat...f3Omz0hcn0

Great spot Richardson - new one on me!

Between this and Journey's "Faithfully"...I'm beginning to think this fella Prince was a bit of a fraud

[Edited 1/18/18 15:54pm]

Perspective said:

laurarichardson said:

databank said:

According to Princevault, Andre is the sole author, which means that sources said that Prince didn't alter the composition significantly. But it's always possible that new info (or the original recording) surfaces at a later date.

—No it was Eddie Hazel. The song is Frantic moment. https://m.youtube.com/wat...f3Omz0hcn0

Ha! I was waiting for you to bring that up again. I almost wrote it and though naw, c'mon

If DMB is FM, then When Doves Cry is She Loves 2 Video...

NO, borrowing 3 chords from an interlude in a song that's otherwisely entirely different does not make Do Me, Baby the same composition. Do, Me Baby is not Frantic Moment anymore than Release It is Squib Cakes. Feel free to keep bringing up that Do Me, Baby bears similar elements to Franbtic Moment (though we're not even certain it was done on purpose), but stop lying by saying it is it. Words do have a meaning. Anyway people can judge from themselves.

Perspective said:

laurarichardson said:

databank said: —No it was Eddie Hazel. The song is Frantic moment. https://m.youtube.com/wat...f3Omz0hcn0

Great spot Richardson - new one on me!

Between this and Journey's "Faithfully"...I'm beginning to think this fella Prince was a bit of a fraud

[Edited 1/18/18 15:54pm]

All artists borrow from their predecessors. If that makes them frauds, then all artists, beginning with myself, are frauds.

databank said:

laurarichardson said:

databank said: —No it was Eddie Hazel. The song is Frantic moment. https://m.youtube.com/wat...f3Omz0hcn0

Ha! I was waiting for you to bring that up again. I almost wrote it and though naw, c'mon

If DMB is FM, then When Doves Cry is She Loves 2 Video...

NO, borrowing 3 chords from an interlude in a song that's otherwisely entirely different does not make Do Me, Baby the same composition. Do, Me Baby is not Frantic Moment anymore than Release It is Squib Cakes. Feel free to keep bringing up that Do Me, Baby bears similar elements to Franbtic Moment (though we're not even certain it was done on purpose), but stop lying by saying it is it. Words do have a meaning. Anyway people can judge from themselves.

I find it interesting that you have no problem stating that Prince stole it from Andre but when it is pointed out that is sounds a little too much like "Frantic Moment" all of sudden no it can't be.

Same reason you are giving that borrowing those 3 chords does not make it a rip off can be the same reason Prince did not rip it off from Andre.

The problem is none of us were around when this song was recorded in 79 and Dre has been caught telling some fish tales before so I would not put it past him.

databank said:

Perspective said:

Great spot Richardson - new one on me!

Between this and Journey's "Faithfully"...I'm beginning to think this fella Prince was a bit of a fraud

[Edited 1/18/18 15:54pm]

All artists borrow from their predecessors. If that makes them frauds, then all artists, beginning with myself, are frauds.

Well according to Journey Prince did not borrow anything from them. Notice the word classy is being used.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_30eFkInF0

laurarichardson said:

databank said:

Ha! I was waiting for you to bring that up again. I almost wrote it and though naw, c'mon

If DMB is FM, then When Doves Cry is She Loves 2 Video...

NO, borrowing 3 chords from an interlude in a song that's otherwisely entirely different does not make Do Me, Baby the same composition. Do, Me Baby is not Frantic Moment anymore than Release It is Squib Cakes. Feel free to keep bringing up that Do Me, Baby bears similar elements to Franbtic Moment (though we're not even certain it was done on purpose), but stop lying by saying it is it. Words do have a meaning. Anyway people can judge from themselves.

I find it interesting that you have no problem stating that Prince stole it from Andre but when it is pointed out that is sounds a little too much like "Frantic Moment" all of sudden no it can't be.

Same reason you are giving that borrowing those 3 chords does not make it a rip off can be the same reason Prince did not rip it off from Andre.

The problem is none of us were around when this song was recorded in 79 and Dre has been caught telling some fish tales before so I would not put it past him.

Unlike you, I base my choices on available, factual information, not on what fits my political agenda. I have heard Frantic Moment, I haven't heard André's original recording.

Witnesses other than André said that the song is André's: until I can hear it and make up my mind, I'll trust Per Nilsen not to repeat information that is not deemed reliable and assume the information is correct until proven otherwise.

Besides, I am talking of A and you try to prove me wrong by bringing up B, which is a fallacy. Even if you were correct with B, it still wouldn't make A any truer.

I don't have a problem with you: you are a long time orger and a true Prince fan who belongs here, but I've repeatedly caught you using fallacies in order to bend the truth in order to make it fit your political agenda. This has to stop. Please pull yourself together. You are not doing yourself or anyone else any favor by acting like that.

laurarichardson said:

databank said:

All artists borrow from their predecessors. If that makes them frauds, then all artists, beginning with myself, are frauds.

Well according to Journey Prince did not borrow anything from them. Notice the word classy is being used.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_30eFkInF0

Precisely what I'm saying. Borrowing is part of the creative process and as long as most of what you bring to the table is your own food, there is nothing to be embarrassed about it. Those people claiming Prince is a fraud because he borrowed a few things here and there, or failed to acknowledge a few credits here and there, are being ridiculous when considering the huge amount of musical and lyrical ideas Prince created in the course of his career.

databank said:

laurarichardson said:

It's one of those things that's not going to be settled unless Andre's demo becomes available--and it includes vocals. I've never heard anyone say anything that makes clear that Andre claims lyrical content (but if he has, I'm more than happy to be proven wrong). I suspect it's music alone that Prince borrowed--but whatever the borrowing is (and there's not a whole lot to the song, really), it's enough that people beyond Andre have been quoted as recognizing it. Assuming there's anything to this at all--again, it's not like there's anything groundbreakingly original about Do Me Baby as a composition, is there? (And that's even if Hazel's track never existed, for those who insist on bringing it up).

I wonder the same things about Partyup, though--exactly what was there to that before Prince got it? I don't know how many separate, independent claims there are about Morris Day's writing of that song (as far as I know, maybe it was said once by Morris (or someone else) and everyone since then is ultimately just repeating basically as hearsay that same claim, or maybe 16 different people all of whom know independently of each other who wrote what and how it all went down have talked about it separately to researchers). I'd like to know. That's part of why I'm glad Jesse's decided to release fuller descriptions and some demos of Time songs that began with him--true, he tends to admit that while his work was the germ, Prince did a whole lot to move from that germ to the completed song. That doesn't stop people from sometimes saying things like "Jungle Love" is Jesse's song--but anyone who has read his accounts or listened to the demo knows that ain't completely true. The song doesn't happen without Jesse--but it doesn't happen without Prince either.

databank said:

InwardJim said:

Andre has mentioned it a few times in various interviews. It wasn't necessarily recorded with Pepe, but it is supposed to have been recorded during leftover time already paid for during sessions he was producing.

The question I would like the answer to is how much of it did Andre write and how much did Prince? From the way it sounds, it was a bit of a collab.

According to Princevault, Andre is the sole author, which means that sources said that Prince didn't alter the composition significantly. But it's always possible that new info (or the original recording) surfaces at a later date.

PrinceVault, though comprehensive and generally on point, isn't infallible. There are items here and there that have been boiled down to the basest fact so much that they aren't wrong, but they aren't as accurate as they could be. The further things get into the realm of x person said this and that's the only source, the more I've noticed it is taken as gospel at face value. Having been in many bands, there are songs that I contributed significant portions to and yet weren't enough to really claim writing credit. Sometimes what people claim is writing really falls under the banner of arrangement.

Take "Let's Work." It was built around a bass groove Andre came up with while jamming with Prince, but was it as identical as the claim says? Is it just the note progression? The thump and hammer-on pattern in a different key or tonal quality? Did Prince come up with the chord progression and that line was merely Andre's interpretation of it? While jamming, was it purposefully played and refined or just instinctual grooving? Was that groove revised while still being somewhat recognizeable? Unless that jam session comes out, it's merely plausible.

I believe he had some hand in both tunes, but I don't believe it's as basic as he wrote them in their entirety.

EddieC said:

It's one of those things that's not going to be settled unless Andre's demo becomes available--and it includes vocals. I've never heard anyone say anything that makes clear that Andre claims lyrical content (but if he has, I'm more than happy to be proven wrong). I suspect it's music alone that Prince borrowed--but whatever the borrowing is (and there's not a whole lot to the song, really), it's enough that people beyond Andre have been quoted as recognizing it. Assuming there's anything to this at all--again, it's not like there's anything groundbreakingly original about Do Me Baby as a composition, is there? (And that's even if Hazel's track never existed, for those who insist on bringing it up).

I wonder the same things about Partyup, though--exactly what was there to that before Prince got it? I don't know how many separate, independent claims there are about Morris Day's writing of that song (as far as I know, maybe it was said once by Morris (or someone else) and everyone since then is ultimately just repeating basically as hearsay that same claim, or maybe 16 different people all of whom know independently of each other who wrote what and how it all went down have talked about it separately to researchers). I'd like to know. That's part of why I'm glad Jesse's decided to release fuller descriptions and some demos of Time songs that began with him--true, he tends to admit that while his work was the germ, Prince did a whole lot to move from that germ to the completed song. That doesn't stop people from sometimes saying things like "Jungle Love" is Jesse's song--but anyone who has read his accounts or listened to the demo knows that ain't completely true. The song doesn't happen without Jesse--but it doesn't happen without Prince either.

Exactly my point!

And if anything, Do Me Baby at most parodies Frantic Moment and you really have to pay attention to it to make that connection. It's not the same as Green Day's "Brainstew" being the same basic progression as the verse to Chicago's "25 or 6 to 4." The case can be made, but it's not that unique of a progression and has a different enough feel that it's moot.

Perspective said:

laurarichardson said:

databank said: —No it was Eddie Hazel. The song is Frantic moment. https://m.youtube.com/wat...f3Omz0hcn0

Great spot Richardson - new one on me!

Between this and Journey's "Faithfully"...I'm beginning to think this fella Prince was a bit of a fraud

[Edited 1/18/18 15:54pm]

he wasn't, like Chuck Berry once said when he pointed out the influences for his classics "there's nothing new under the sun".

Just checking.. is anyone saying Do Me Baby sounds like Frantic Moment? That's just silly... I know that Prince (and probably Andre) were huge P-Funk fans (Prince even using Bootsy's "I thank you, my band thanks you, even my thank you's thank you!" live during the Rick James tour), but those songs never struck me as being similar.

Of course, it's not like Do Me, Baby gets a lot of repeat play in my house.

mediumdry said:

Just checking.. is anyone saying Do Me Baby sounds like Frantic Moment? That's just silly... I know that Prince (and probably Andre) were huge P-Funk fans (Prince even using Bootsy's "I thank you, my band thanks you, even my thank you's thank you!" live during the Rick James tour), but those songs never struck me as being similar.

Of course, it's not like Do Me, Baby gets a lot of repeat play in my house.

they don't sound that similar to me either but even if it did, it wouldn't be a big deal, everyone copies.

databank said:

EddieC said:

laurarichardson said:

databank said:

databank said:

Perspective said:

Great spot Richardson - new one on me!

Between this and Journey's "Faithfully"...I'm beginning to think this fella Prince was a bit of a fraud

[Edited 1/18/18 15:54pm]

All artists borrow from their predecessors. If that makes them frauds, then all artists, beginning with myself, are frauds.

It was a joke Databank - didn't realise you are soooo sensitive...

Regarding DMB, I never heard the song Laura posted...and can definitely hear the same hook. Now I have no idea about the complexities of what sample constitutes copyright infringement/acknowledgement...

I just know that I heard a distinct similarity.

Now carry on the arguement...it is most entertaining!!!

Perspective said:

databank said:

All artists borrow from their predecessors. If that makes them frauds, then all artists, beginning with myself, are frauds.

It was a joke Databank - didn't realise you are soooo sensitive...

Regarding DMB, I never heard the song Laura posted...and can definitely hear the same hook. Now I have no idea about the complexities of what sample constitutes copyright infringement/acknowledgement...

I just know that I heard a distinct similarity.

Now carry on the arguement...it is most entertaining!!!

Anyone with ears can hear the similarity I do not know if it is enough for the estate of Eddie Hazel to make a claim or not but the songs have a similarity and I notice you do not hear Andre making anymore claims about it or any other songs for that matter.

Frantic Moment is an almost exact blueprint for DMB on that one guitar. Like so often, we found where P got his 'inspiration'. I personally wouldn't release any material that comes so obviously from elsewhere, but still glad P did it since he knew how to make something much more out of it.
Nevertheless, too many times we hear that P is not the one behind the source of his material.

Turning it around, he's a master of doing this 'milking' of material (in a good way) also when it concerns his own stuff; like releasing 3 great albums out of 1 single song (Coco Boys)

TheFman said:

TheFman said:

Frantic Moment is an almost exact blueprint for DMB on that one guitar. Like so often, we found where P got his 'inspiration'. I personally wouldn't release any material that comes so obviously from elsewhere, but still glad P did it since he knew how to make something much more out of it.
Nevertheless, too many times we hear that P is not the one behind the source of his material.

Turning it around, he's a master of doing this 'milking' of material (in a good way) also when it concerns his own stuff; like releasing 3 great albums out of 1 single song (Coco Boys)

everyone does it, everyone, sometimes they get nabbed for it as in the case of John Lennon getting sued by Chuck Berry for stealing some lines of his for the song Come Together but usually other musicians are pretty cool. I think Huey lewis successfully sued Ray Parker for Ghostbusters a few years back, if people sued everytime a song had a passing resemblance, they'd be in court all the time, which was the case for poor Michael Jackson, sued over everything under the sun, from stealing songs to child molestation, it's not all roses when you have that kind of money and fame, people make your life a living hell. Prince was sued a couple times, not for do me baby though.