can anyone confirm prince KNOWINGLY took non-prescription pills????

Do you mean if someone forced or tricked him into swallowing pills (i.e., murdered him)?

-

Assuming he knowingly swallowed the pills: Wouldn't he know that those pills weren't prescribed to him? According to what's been reported, the pills were made to look like legit prescription opioids-- but he would have known that he didn't have a prescription for them specifically. And according to reports, he stashed many of the counterfeit pills in various other bottles (vitamins, etc), which also would show that he knew he didn't legally accquire these pills.

-

Do you mean if it's confirmed that Prince knew the pills were counterfeit vs. legit opioids that he simply didn't have a prescription for?

luvsexy4all said:

can anyone confirm prince KNOWINGLY took non-prescription pills????

[Edited 1/24/18 17:09pm]

disch said:

Do you mean if someone forced or tricked him into swallowing pills (i.e., murdered him)?

-

Assuming he knowingly swallowed the pills: Wouldn't he know that those pills weren't prescribed to him? According to what's been reported, the pills were made to look like legit prescription opioids-- but he would have known that he didn't have a prescription for them specifically. And according to reports, he stashed many of the counterfeit pills in various other bottles (vitamins, etc), which also would show that he knew he didn't legally accquire these pills.

-

Do you mean if it's confirmed that Prince knew the pills were counterfeit vs. legit opioids that he simply didn't have a prescription for?

luvsexy4all said:

can anyone confirm prince KNOWINGLY took non-prescription pills????

[Edited 1/24/18 17:09pm]

i say he didnt know they were bootleg pills....someone didnt tell him

I think that's certainly possible he didn't know they were counterfeit (he might think that whoever supplied him the drugs was providing him the "real deal," albeit on the black market. It's even possible that whoever supplied him the drugs didn't realize they were counterfeit. I mean, I can imagine if someone manufactures/sells drugs that are made to look just like pills you'd get from a pharmacy, they're not going to tell their customers, oh by the way, these are fake).

-

I'm still not understanding how he wouldn't know that they weren't prescribed to him. I wuold assume he'd know what medications he had been legitimately prescribed by a doctor.

-

Maybe I'm still not understanding..

luvsexy4all said:

disch said:

Do you mean if someone forced or tricked him into swallowing pills (i.e., murdered him)?

-

Assuming he knowingly swallowed the pills: Wouldn't he know that those pills weren't prescribed to him? According to what's been reported, the pills were made to look like legit prescription opioids-- but he would have known that he didn't have a prescription for them specifically. And according to reports, he stashed many of the counterfeit pills in various other bottles (vitamins, etc), which also would show that he knew he didn't legally accquire these pills.

-

Do you mean if it's confirmed that Prince knew the pills were counterfeit vs. legit opioids that he simply didn't have a prescription for?

[Edited 1/24/18 17:09pm]

i say he didnt know they were bootleg pills....someone didnt tell him

[Edited 1/24/18 17:26pm]

disch said:

I think that's certainly possible he didn't know they were counterfeit (he might think that whoever supplied him the drugs was providing him the "real deal," albeit on the black market. It's even possible that whoever supplied him the drugs didn't realize they were counterfeit. I mean, I can imagine if someone manufactures/sells drugs that are made to look just like pills you'd get from a pharmacy, they're not going to tell their customers, oh by the way, these are fake).

-

I'm still not understanding how he wouldn't know that they weren't prescribed to him. I wuold assume he'd know what medications he had been legitimately prescribed by a doctor.

-

Maybe I'm still not understanding..

luvsexy4all said:

i say he didnt know they were bootleg pills....someone didnt tell him

[Edited 1/24/18 17:26pm]

i think luvsexy may be saying something along these lines perhaps. hey man i need this medicine

go to the dr get an rx in your name an then give them to me. i don't want the pills in my name cause

i am famous. Here is the $$ for you to go to the dr and the pharmacy. but maybe my friend does that then get lazy and says i am just gonna go thru the black market and get the meds so i don't

have to hassel with dr appointments and what not. my friend won't know cause they look just like

regular meds.

*and then this protocol is established and the friend never mentions to person taking the meds how

exactly they are getting them. friend probably isn't even aware they could be made in a way that they would be toxic when used normally. both are clueless.

i don't know if that is what luvsexy is saying, but maybe

Hmm, i guess... I think, though, that someone can both buy drugs on the black market from some kind of drug dealer AND think the pills are legit. Like a hypothetical example might be: The dealer claims that they get their product from thieves who steal legit drugs from pharmacies. The dealer's customers think they're getting legit drugs. And maybe they are! Maybe the dealer really does get his stash from pharmacy thieves. But the dealer also might get their product from counterfeiters who make the drugs look like the legit pharmacy version, and the dealer's clients can't tell the difference.

-

I would assume the whole purpose of making counterfeit drugs look like legit drugs is to trick the buyers into thinking they're getting legit drugs (or at least pills that contain the exact same ingredients as the legit drugs).

-

No matter if the drugs were counterfeit or legit, Prince would have known that the method he used to acquire them was illegal (I'm not saying that in a judgmental way -- just noting that Prince knew that by not having his own prescription he was going outside the legal medical system).

purplefam99 said:

disch said:

I think that's certainly possible he didn't know they were counterfeit (he might think that whoever supplied him the drugs was providing him the "real deal," albeit on the black market. It's even possible that whoever supplied him the drugs didn't realize they were counterfeit. I mean, I can imagine if someone manufactures/sells drugs that are made to look just like pills you'd get from a pharmacy, they're not going to tell their customers, oh by the way, these are fake).

-

I'm still not understanding how he wouldn't know that they weren't prescribed to him. I wuold assume he'd know what medications he had been legitimately prescribed by a doctor.

-

Maybe I'm still not understanding..

[Edited 1/24/18 17:26pm]

i think luvsexy may be saying something along these lines perhaps. hey man i need this medicine

go to the dr get an rx in your name an then give them to me. i don't want the pills in my name cause

i am famous. Here is the $$ for you to go to the dr and the pharmacy. but maybe my friend does that then get lazy and says i am just gonna go thru the black market and get the meds so i don't

have to hassel with dr appointments and what not. my friend won't know cause they look just like

regular meds.

*and then this protocol is established and the friend never mentions to person taking the meds how

exactly they are getting them. friend probably isn't even aware they could be made in a way that they would be toxic when used normally. both are clueless.

i don't know if that is what luvsexy is saying, but maybe

[Edited 1/24/18 18:29pm]

agreed, yes he was moving outside the law with his actions/requests of others. i think whoever acquired the meds wasn't researching the downside of the opiate market. and i often think that if those skilled enough to acquire them are most likely partaking too. i mean hey he danced too, maybe he could relate to the pain issue. but who knows.

disch said:

Hmm, i guess... I think, though, that someone can both buy drugs on the black market from some kind of drug dealer AND think the pills are legit. Like a hypothetical example might be: The dealer claims that they get their product from thieves who steal legit drugs from pharmacies. The dealer's customers think they're getting legit drugs. And maybe they are! Maybe the dealer really does get his stash from pharmacy thieves. But the dealer also might get their product from counterfeiters who make the drugs look like the legit pharmacy version, and the dealer's clients can't tell the difference.

-

No matter if the drugs were counterfeit or legit, Prince would have known that the method he used to acquire them was illegal (I'm not saying that in a judgmental way -- just noting that Prince knew that by not having his own prescription he was going outside the legal medical system).

purplefam99 said:

i think luvsexy may be saying something along these lines perhaps. hey man i need this medicine

go to the dr get an rx in your name an then give them to me. i don't want the pills in my name cause

i am famous. Here is the $$ for you to go to the dr and the pharmacy. but maybe my friend does that then get lazy and says i am just gonna go thru the black market and get the meds so i don't

have to hassel with dr appointments and what not. my friend won't know cause they look just like

regular meds.

*and then this protocol is established and the friend never mentions to person taking the meds how

exactly they are getting them. friend probably isn't even aware they could be made in a way that they would be toxic when used normally. both are clueless.

i don't know if that is what luvsexy is saying, but maybe

laurarichardson said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Oh Menes: you hit the ball out of the park again!!!

A whole lot of people of been extremely mean to me. I let a lot of it go. At the end of the day the information about cancer is out there and all of the snarky comments will not change that.

----

1.Did the private Facebook group ever connect the dots when it comes to what the actual protocol call is once an autopsy report has been completed in the state of Minnesota? I mean, after all, the "cancer" would have shown up somewhere , right?

Once again we the public are only seeing the short report. Not the long report. The state of MN does not make the full report public. If he did not die from cancer why would it be in the short report? We have no access to his health files or the full report. For all we know the long report might show that he did have cancer and it very well could have been in the beginning stages. Even when people have cancer that do not always die from the cancer because the cancer itself can cause other health issues which people actually die from.

Let's say you're Dr. Schulenberg and you're treating Prince just because you're "starstruck"...Do you think there is a protocol that he or the hospital has to follow and is governed by? Is he able to make up the rules as he goes without facing the risk of revocation and other penalties being assessed? Do you think Dr. Schulenberg was ever penalized? How about the facility? Please advise.

2. In a way he did make up the rules but he covered himself well. He wrote non-controlled Rxs for Prince under another person's name which is actually illegal. He has no background in addiction management but he had no problem writing those pain Rxs for KJ and then they just happen to show up in Prince's personal belongings. As long as there is no proof of him writing controlled substances for Prince he is going to get off. He was very quick to get an attorney and make it clear that he only wrote controlled substances for Kirk not Prince and I am sure all of Prince medical records document that Dr. S treated Prince for joint pain and not withdrawals. He crossed his T's and dotted his I's. He got let go from the hospital and that is about the only thing that is going to happen to him. KJ is the one who might be in trouble.

3. What if the autopsy report revealed that Prince had cancer, yet you, the family physician ,prescribed things contrary to the facility's protocol which is governed by the Minnesota Board of Medical Practice in conjunction with its own board of directors... Do you think the board of directors, the facility, or you would be in any position to treat patients pursuant to such a grave error without very stiff penalties and protocols being enforced?

Dr. S is no longer working at that hospital. Remember according to him he was seeing Prince for help with joint pain yet he prescribed drugs that appear to be for withdrawals and he had no background in addictions management. Could it be that he is not working at that hospital because he was not following the protocols but not outside of it enough to not be sanctioned by the state board. Like I said before he appears to have covered himself well.

As far as cancer is concerned you cannot force a patient to accept treatment and once again you are assuming he had cancer that could be treated. If a cancer is terminal like stage 4 the only treatment is pain meds and end of life care. I have family members who have been in this situation. I do not think the state board would be interested if Prince had cancer since he did not die from cancer and if there is no medical records that show that Dr. S was treating him for cancer. Why would Dr. S be in trouble?

4.What sort of cancer(s) does the facility specialize in? What are there treatment protocols? How does Dr. Schulenberg fit into this team?

Once again we do not know how far along this cancer was. What stage was it in? Did Prince find out in the last 7 days of his life and no care was even started? Did he have cancer before and the cancer came back? Once again you are making the assumption that he was walking around for months with cancer and going back and fourth for treatment while touring (Does that make any sense? I think if his family members are being trueful this cancer diagnois was recent.

5.If Prince had cancer, do you believe that Dr. Schulenberg would have known about it?

After he ran test he would have. Remember he was bringing him test results on the 21st. Also, Cancer can go from bad to worst in a minute. Do you know anything about Cancer?

6. Even if Prince didn't tell him, do you believe that the technology exists for Dr.Schulenberg or the medical facility to know? When was the last time someone waltzed in to a hospital and say "Doc, I have cancer, I need treatment ". Isn't it normally the other way around? As in :You're diagnosed because something showed up?

Prince was in the hospital before he left to go to Atlanta and had test on the 20^th what makes you think test were not run then or even in that last week.

We still have no idea what he was doing for 7 days before he passed. What makes you think he did not have cancer or other medical problems prior to 2016? What makes you think he had not seen other doctors then Dr. S.

Due to HIPPA we are never going to see his health records and any illness he had that did not cause his death are of no concern to the police.

7. If he knew about it, or had any suspicion ( via a blood test) do you believe that

the protocol was proper?

The protocol for many illness was not followed.

Drug addiction – Wrong doctor to see.

Cancer – Wrong doctor but patient must decide if they want treatment or treatment not needed due to being terminal.

Joint pain. - Let me treat it by prescribing more pain meds along with meds to help with withdrawal. ( Does this make any sense?)

8. Who would hire you if it was found that you did not follow protocol and therefore may have caused Prince to suffer even more pain than is necessary by prescribing nothing resembling a cancer pain management protocol? Who would trust that facility that you worked for, or is working for now?

Once again you are ignoring the fact that Dr. S covered his tracks with the drugs and Prince did not die from Cancer. No Dr. can force a patient to stay in a hospital all that can do is recommend they stay and follow certain care. The doctor is going to document their recommendations and the patient is going to sign a release saying they understand and they are on their own if they choose not to listen. I am sure the documentation exists and once again you are assuming that this cancer could be treated and that treatment can be forced on a patient.

8. Let's say that Prince was diagnosed with cancer from a doctor in another state, are there any interstate protocols that would allow said facility , insurance, governing medical body to ascertain that the information is factual?? Were there any other doctors implicated in Prince's "care" in the media, on social media, near the media, around the media, under the media, between the media?

No one in the media is going to know about his health due to HIPPA. So why would any info about other illness be in the media? Once again you can have protocols but you cannot force care on a patient and we have no idea what stage this cancer is in. Why would his medical records or issues have to be determined to be real by anyone especially if that is not what killed him? For what purpose?

9. Why hasn't this facility or Dr.Schulenberg not been sued by the estate for malpractice, violation of oath , etc. etc. etc.?

I am not sure what they would be sued for if Prince had cancer and no more treatment could be given if it was terminal. If he did not want treatment how can you sue? The family could raise a fuss about Dr. S writing those pain meds but they were not written for Prince they were written for Kirk. You can sue people for anything but you have to prove it. Where is the proof that Prince did not receive the care he wanted?

I do not know that back in the Fall of 2016 there was a rumor that the family was going to sue for malpractice and back in the spring of 2017 there was a malpractice attorney added as one of Tyka's attorney but now that lawyer is no longer listed for her. So, it is possible that the family did considering suing.

10. Wasn't a warrant served at that facility? Do you think the Attorney General in the state of Minnesota would have gotten involved if that facility was found to be in violation after almost two years? Do we have to wait for the book for that too?

The warrant was to get Prince's medical records. Once again if cancer care was not wanted by the patient or needed the facility would not be in any trouble.

I have already explained this and Dr. S covering his tracks on the Rxs already as many of your questions just repeat the same thing repeatedly.

Next time you decided to write a book think out your questions better and live off the snarkycomments. Also do your research. In America, we do not force care on anyone, learn something about Pancreatic Cancer, and pay attention to some of the comments on the board.

It was already disclosed by one other orger that the cancer issue was on an open Facebook group so this is not some secret information anymore and I am not the only one who knows about it. In fact it is so well known it is not even a point of discussion on other boards or groups. Only on the org were all critical thinking as gone out the window.

Yea. You're clever by half because you seem to think you comprehend what is written, yet your response is as relevant as a mule doing math. How many times have most of us had to repeat things to you , only to see you finally comprehend that you were chasing your tail months later? It is the funniest thing to watch. At least you make us all chuckle throughout the day. You're good for something.

1. You missed the first leading question by a country mile. Probably thought you nailed it , eh? Who said anything about a short form? Did you really read the question? It clearly mentions: the "autopsy report ". Do you understand what the protocol is when an "autopsy report" is completed? The chain of custody , the certification process, what needs to be on the report, the Minnesota Board Of Practice evaluation process as it relates to an actual final report? Had you understood the premise of the question ,2-9 would have made perfect sense.

2. Whether Prince signed a waiver or not to deny himself any form of cancer treatment is not something I will be entertaining because I don't believe there is any proof that he had cancer of any form.

3. Someone else will probably be able to explain to you the importance of the (1st) question. Maybe you just might figure it out. It's a small spoon.

I'm not sure, though, that Prince was simply turning to a close associate and saying, hey I really need some Vicodin (or whatever); can you figure out how to get some prescribed to you and then give it to me?

-

I think Prince would have had access to and knowledge about more typical ways that rich and famous people get drugs, including working with professional dealers (for lack of a better description). His life existing in an industry in which drugs are quite common and I think he would have had no trouble working with a dealer who could get him what he wanted when he wanted it, without having to go through a whole prescription flow. (Personally, I think Kirk knew that Prince was using black-market drugs and was actually trying to help him at least use legit drugs by getting some prescriptions in his own name at the end of Prince's life. I'm not convinced that Kirk was Prince's regular conduit for drugs. But that's abother thing.)

purplefam99 said:

agreed, yes he was moving outside the law with his actions/requests of others. i think whoever acquired the meds wasn't researching the downside of the opiate market. and i often think that if those skilled enough to acquire them are most likely partaking too. i mean hey he danced too, maybe he could relate to the pain issue. but who knows.

disch said:

Hmm, i guess... I think, though, that someone can both buy drugs on the black market from some kind of drug dealer AND think the pills are legit. Like a hypothetical example might be: The dealer claims that they get their product from thieves who steal legit drugs from pharmacies. The dealer's customers think they're getting legit drugs. And maybe they are! Maybe the dealer really does get his stash from pharmacy thieves. But the dealer also might get their product from counterfeiters who make the drugs look like the legit pharmacy version, and the dealer's clients can't tell the difference.

-

No matter if the drugs were counterfeit or legit, Prince would have known that the method he used to acquire them was illegal (I'm not saying that in a judgmental way -- just noting that Prince knew that by not having his own prescription he was going outside the legal medical system).

disch said:

I'm not sure, though, that Prince was simply turning to a close associate and saying, hey I really need some Vicodin (or whatever); can you figure out how to get some prescribed to you and then give it to me?

-

I think Prince would have had access to and knowledge about more typical ways that rich and famous people get drugs, including working with professional dealers (for lack of a better description). His life existing in an industry in which drugs are quite common and I think he would have had no trouble working with a dealer who could get him what he wanted when he wanted it, without having to go through a whole prescription flow. (Personally, I think Kirk knew that Prince was using black-market drugs and was actually trying to help him at least use legit drugs by getting some prescriptions in his own name at the end of Prince's life. I'm not convinced that Kirk was Prince's regular conduit for drugs. But that's abother thing.)

purplefam99 said:

agreed, yes he was moving outside the law with his actions/requests of others. i think whoever acquired the meds wasn't researching the downside of the opiate market. and i often think that if those skilled enough to acquire them are most likely partaking too. i mean hey he danced too, maybe he could relate to the pain issue. but who knows.

Have to agree that "Prince would have access to and knowledge about". Everything else was a front to maintain.

I also don't think it's out of the realm of possibiltiy that he was mail-ordering stuff directly from the internet. I mean, I have absolutely no information about this, but it is commonly done and would certainly make it harder to locate a person to arrest.

-

In general I think Prince was much less innocent and naive about this stuff (how to get illegal drugs) than some people here think, and he was not sitting around doing research into the drugs he was getting (because people don't really do that). And I'm not saying he was a "lifelong junkie" or whatever. I'm saying he was an aware guy who lived in a world where drugs were not uncommon. And he had a lot of money at his disposal.

Menes said:

disch said:

I'm not sure, though, that Prince was simply turning to a close associate and saying, hey I really need some Vicodin (or whatever); can you figure out how to get some prescribed to you and then give it to me?

-

I think Prince would have had access to and knowledge about more typical ways that rich and famous people get drugs, including working with professional dealers (for lack of a better description). His life existing in an industry in which drugs are quite common and I think he would have had no trouble working with a dealer who could get him what he wanted when he wanted it, without having to go through a whole prescription flow. (Personally, I think Kirk knew that Prince was using black-market drugs and was actually trying to help him at least use legit drugs by getting some prescriptions in his own name at the end of Prince's life. I'm not convinced that Kirk was Prince's regular conduit for drugs. But that's abother thing.)

Have to agree that "Prince would have access to and knowledge about". Everything else was a front to maintain.

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

A whole lot of people of been extremely mean to me. I let a lot of it go. At the end of the day the information about cancer is out there and all of the snarky comments will not change that.

----

1.Did the private Facebook group ever connect the dots when it comes to what the actual protocol call is once an autopsy report has been completed in the state of Minnesota? I mean, after all, the "cancer" would have shown up somewhere , right?

Once again we the public are only seeing the short report. Not the long report. The state of MN does not make the full report public. If he did not die from cancer why would it be in the short report? We have no access to his health files or the full report. For all we know the long report might show that he did have cancer and it very well could have been in the beginning stages. Even when people have cancer that do not always die from the cancer because the cancer itself can cause other health issues which people actually die from.

Let's say you're Dr. Schulenberg and you're treating Prince just because you're "starstruck"...Do you think there is a protocol that he or the hospital has to follow and is governed by? Is he able to make up the rules as he goes without facing the risk of revocation and other penalties being assessed? Do you think Dr. Schulenberg was ever penalized? How about the facility? Please advise.

2. In a way he did make up the rules but he covered himself well. He wrote non-controlled Rxs for Prince under another person's name which is actually illegal. He has no background in addiction management but he had no problem writing those pain Rxs for KJ and then they just happen to show up in Prince's personal belongings. As long as there is no proof of him writing controlled substances for Prince he is going to get off. He was very quick to get an attorney and make it clear that he only wrote controlled substances for Kirk not Prince and I am sure all of Prince medical records document that Dr. S treated Prince for joint pain and not withdrawals. He crossed his T's and dotted his I's. He got let go from the hospital and that is about the only thing that is going to happen to him. KJ is the one who might be in trouble.

3. What if the autopsy report revealed that Prince had cancer, yet you, the family physician ,prescribed things contrary to the facility's protocol which is governed by the Minnesota Board of Medical Practice in conjunction with its own board of directors... Do you think the board of directors, the facility, or you would be in any position to treat patients pursuant to such a grave error without very stiff penalties and protocols being enforced?

Dr. S is no longer working at that hospital. Remember according to him he was seeing Prince for help with joint pain yet he prescribed drugs that appear to be for withdrawals and he had no background in addictions management. Could it be that he is not working at that hospital because he was not following the protocols but not outside of it enough to not be sanctioned by the state board. Like I said before he appears to have covered himself well.

As far as cancer is concerned you cannot force a patient to accept treatment and once again you are assuming he had cancer that could be treated. If a cancer is terminal like stage 4 the only treatment is pain meds and end of life care. I have family members who have been in this situation. I do not think the state board would be interested if Prince had cancer since he did not die from cancer and if there is no medical records that show that Dr. S was treating him for cancer. Why would Dr. S be in trouble?

4.What sort of cancer(s) does the facility specialize in? What are there treatment protocols? How does Dr. Schulenberg fit into this team?

Once again we do not know how far along this cancer was. What stage was it in? Did Prince find out in the last 7 days of his life and no care was even started? Did he have cancer before and the cancer came back? Once again you are making the assumption that he was walking around for months with cancer and going back and fourth for treatment while touring (Does that make any sense? I think if his family members are being trueful this cancer diagnois was recent.

5.If Prince had cancer, do you believe that Dr. Schulenberg would have known about it?

After he ran test he would have. Remember he was bringing him test results on the 21st. Also, Cancer can go from bad to worst in a minute. Do you know anything about Cancer?

6. Even if Prince didn't tell him, do you believe that the technology exists for Dr.Schulenberg or the medical facility to know? When was the last time someone waltzed in to a hospital and say "Doc, I have cancer, I need treatment ". Isn't it normally the other way around? As in :You're diagnosed because something showed up?

Prince was in the hospital before he left to go to Atlanta and had test on the 20th what makes you think test were not run then or even in that last week.

We still have no idea what he was doing for 7 days before he passed. What makes you think he did not have cancer or other medical problems prior to 2016? What makes you think he had not seen other doctors then Dr. S.

Due to HIPPA we are never going to see his health records and any illness he had that did not cause his death are of no concern to the police.

7. If he knew about it, or had any suspicion ( via a blood test) do you believe that

the protocol was proper?

The protocol for many illness was not followed.

Drug addiction – Wrong doctor to see.

Cancer – Wrong doctor but patient must decide if they want treatment or treatment not needed due to being terminal.

Joint pain. - Let me treat it by prescribing more pain meds along with meds to help with withdrawal. ( Does this make any sense?)

8. Who would hire you if it was found that you did not follow protocol and therefore may have caused Prince to suffer even more pain than is necessary by prescribing nothing resembling a cancer pain management protocol? Who would trust that facility that you worked for, or is working for now?

Once again you are ignoring the fact that Dr. S covered his tracks with the drugs and Prince did not die from Cancer. No Dr. can force a patient to stay in a hospital all that can do is recommend they stay and follow certain care. The doctor is going to document their recommendations and the patient is going to sign a release saying they understand and they are on their own if they choose not to listen. I am sure the documentation exists and once again you are assuming that this cancer could be treated and that treatment can be forced on a patient.

8. Let's say that Prince was diagnosed with cancer from a doctor in another state, are there any interstate protocols that would allow said facility , insurance, governing medical body to ascertain that the information is factual?? Were there any other doctors implicated in Prince's "care" in the media, on social media, near the media, around the media, under the media, between the media?

No one in the media is going to know about his health due to HIPPA. So why would any info about other illness be in the media? Once again you can have protocols but you cannot force care on a patient and we have no idea what stage this cancer is in. Why would his medical records or issues have to be determined to be real by anyone especially if that is not what killed him? For what purpose?

9. Why hasn't this facility or Dr.Schulenberg not been sued by the estate for malpractice, violation of oath , etc. etc. etc.?

I am not sure what they would be sued for if Prince had cancer and no more treatment could be given if it was terminal. If he did not want treatment how can you sue? The family could raise a fuss about Dr. S writing those pain meds but they were not written for Prince they were written for Kirk. You can sue people for anything but you have to prove it. Where is the proof that Prince did not receive the care he wanted?

I do not know that back in the Fall of 2016 there was a rumor that the family was going to sue for malpractice and back in the spring of 2017 there was a malpractice attorney added as one of Tyka's attorney but now that lawyer is no longer listed for her. So, it is possible that the family did considering suing.

10. Wasn't a warrant served at that facility? Do you think the Attorney General in the state of Minnesota would have gotten involved if that facility was found to be in violation after almost two years? Do we have to wait for the book for that too?

The warrant was to get Prince's medical records. Once again if cancer care was not wanted by the patient or needed the facility would not be in any trouble.

I have already explained this and Dr. S covering his tracks on the Rxs already as many of your questions just repeat the same thing repeatedly.

Next time you decided to write a book think out your questions better and live off the snarkycomments. Also do your research. In America, we do not force care on anyone, learn something about Pancreatic Cancer, and pay attention to some of the comments on the board.

It was already disclosed by one other orger that the cancer issue was on an open Facebook group so this is not some secret information anymore and I am not the only one who knows about it. In fact it is so well known it is not even a point of discussion on other boards or groups. Only on the org were all critical thinking as gone out the window.

Yea. You're clever by half because you seem to think you comprehend what is written, yet your response is as relevant as a mule doing math. How many times have most of us had to repeat things to you , only to see you finally comprehend that you were chasing your tail months later? It is the funniest thing to watch. At least you make us all chuckle throughout the day. You're good for something.

1. You missed the first leading question by a country mile. Probably thought you nailed it , eh? Who said anything about a short form? Did you really read the question? It clearly mentions: the "autopsy report ". Do you understand what the protocol is when an "autopsy report" is completed? The chain of custody , the certification process, what needs to be on the report, the Minnesota Board Of Practice evaluation process as it relates to an actual final report? Had you understood the premise of the question ,2-9 would have made perfect sense.

2. Whether Prince signed a waiver or not to deny himself any form of cancer treatment is not something I will be entertaining because I don't believe there is any proof that he had cancer of any form.

3. Someone else will probably be able to explain to you the importance of the (1st) question. Maybe you just might figure it out. It's a small spoon.

It is astounding to me that LR failed to comprehend the brilliance in Question #1 which clearly leads to the answer to the questions so many of us here are seeking. This is the classic difference between wielding a finely-honed intelligence in the service of unraveling a problem or question and just taking a cursory look at words without comprehension and having the on-going temerity to offer up shallow, pedestrian, repetitive drivel that only serves to further confuse and muddy the questions at hand...served up with big spoonfuls of arrogance, unkindness and hostility. Back to the task at hand, Menes! ONWARD!!!

[Edited 1/25/18 19:16pm]

disch said:

it makes no sense that no one would stay with a person who was in a full blown medical crisis, who had overdosed just a few nights before to the point of being unresponsive, who hadn't slept, who was on drugs, who possibly had a disease that would kill them. Do you REALLY believe this? I don't. NO ONE could be that cruel. It's bull.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

Yea. You're clever by half because you seem to think you comprehend what is written, yet your response is as relevant as a mule doing math. How many times have most of us had to repeat things to you , only to see you finally comprehend that you were chasing your tail months later? It is the funniest thing to watch. At least you make us all chuckle throughout the day. You're good for something.

1. You missed the first leading question by a country mile. Probably thought you nailed it , eh? Who said anything about a short form? Did you really read the question? It clearly mentions: the "autopsy report ". Do you understand what the protocol is when an "autopsy report" is completed? The chain of custody , the certification process, what needs to be on the report, the Minnesota Board Of Practice evaluation process as it relates to an actual final report? Had you understood the premise of the question ,2-9 would have made perfect sense.

2. Whether Prince signed a waiver or not to deny himself any form of cancer treatment is not something I will be entertaining because I don't believe there is any proof that he had cancer of any form.

3. Someone else will probably be able to explain to you the importance of the (1st) question. Maybe you just might figure it out. It's a small spoon.

It is astounding to me that LR failed to comprehend the brilliance in Question #1 which clearly leads to the answer to the questions so many of us here are seeking. This is the classic difference between wielding a finely-honed intelligence in the service of unraveling a problem or question and just taking a cursory look at words without comprehension and having the on-going temerity to offer up shallow, pedestrian, repetitive, drivel that only serves to further confuse and muddy the questions at hand...served up with big spoonfuls of arrogance, unkindness and hostility. Back to the task at hand, Menes! ONWARD!!!

Huh? and there shouldn't have been a comma after repetitive, by the way...

cindyt said:

it makes no sense that no one would stay with a person who was in a full blown medical crisis, who had overdosed just a few nights before to the point of being unresponsive, who hadn't slept, who was on drugs, who possibly had a disease that would kill them. Do you REALLY believe this? I don't. NO ONE could be that cruel. It's bull.

Once again this disase according to what we are being told was terminal. You cannot force anyone to sit with anyone if they do not want anyone around. Prince sent everyone away. It is not about being cruel.

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

A whole lot of people of been extremely mean to me. I let a lot of it go. At the end of the day the information about cancer is out there and all of the snarky comments will not change that.

----

1.Did the private Facebook group ever connect the dots when it comes to what the actual protocol call is once an autopsy report has been completed in the state of Minnesota? I mean, after all, the "cancer" would have shown up somewhere , right?

Once again we the public are only seeing the short report. Not the long report. The state of MN does not make the full report public. If he did not die from cancer why would it be in the short report? We have no access to his health files or the full report. For all we know the long report might show that he did have cancer and it very well could have been in the beginning stages. Even when people have cancer that do not always die from the cancer because the cancer itself can cause other health issues which people actually die from.

Let's say you're Dr. Schulenberg and you're treating Prince just because you're "starstruck"...Do you think there is a protocol that he or the hospital has to follow and is governed by? Is he able to make up the rules as he goes without facing the risk of revocation and other penalties being assessed? Do you think Dr. Schulenberg was ever penalized? How about the facility? Please advise.

2. In a way he did make up the rules but he covered himself well. He wrote non-controlled Rxs for Prince under another person's name which is actually illegal. He has no background in addiction management but he had no problem writing those pain Rxs for KJ and then they just happen to show up in Prince's personal belongings. As long as there is no proof of him writing controlled substances for Prince he is going to get off. He was very quick to get an attorney and make it clear that he only wrote controlled substances for Kirk not Prince and I am sure all of Prince medical records document that Dr. S treated Prince for joint pain and not withdrawals. He crossed his T's and dotted his I's. He got let go from the hospital and that is about the only thing that is going to happen to him. KJ is the one who might be in trouble.

3. What if the autopsy report revealed that Prince had cancer, yet you, the family physician ,prescribed things contrary to the facility's protocol which is governed by the Minnesota Board of Medical Practice in conjunction with its own board of directors... Do you think the board of directors, the facility, or you would be in any position to treat patients pursuant to such a grave error without very stiff penalties and protocols being enforced?

Dr. S is no longer working at that hospital. Remember according to him he was seeing Prince for help with joint pain yet he prescribed drugs that appear to be for withdrawals and he had no background in addictions management. Could it be that he is not working at that hospital because he was not following the protocols but not outside of it enough to not be sanctioned by the state board. Like I said before he appears to have covered himself well.

As far as cancer is concerned you cannot force a patient to accept treatment and once again you are assuming he had cancer that could be treated. If a cancer is terminal like stage 4 the only treatment is pain meds and end of life care. I have family members who have been in this situation. I do not think the state board would be interested if Prince had cancer since he did not die from cancer and if there is no medical records that show that Dr. S was treating him for cancer. Why would Dr. S be in trouble?

4.What sort of cancer(s) does the facility specialize in? What are there treatment protocols? How does Dr. Schulenberg fit into this team?

Once again we do not know how far along this cancer was. What stage was it in? Did Prince find out in the last 7 days of his life and no care was even started? Did he have cancer before and the cancer came back? Once again you are making the assumption that he was walking around for months with cancer and going back and fourth for treatment while touring (Does that make any sense? I think if his family members are being trueful this cancer diagnois was recent.

5.If Prince had cancer, do you believe that Dr. Schulenberg would have known about it?

After he ran test he would have. Remember he was bringing him test results on the 21st. Also, Cancer can go from bad to worst in a minute. Do you know anything about Cancer?

6. Even if Prince didn't tell him, do you believe that the technology exists for Dr.Schulenberg or the medical facility to know? When was the last time someone waltzed in to a hospital and say "Doc, I have cancer, I need treatment ". Isn't it normally the other way around? As in :You're diagnosed because something showed up?

Prince was in the hospital before he left to go to Atlanta and had test on the 20^th what makes you think test were not run then or even in that last week.

We still have no idea what he was doing for 7 days before he passed. What makes you think he did not have cancer or other medical problems prior to 2016? What makes you think he had not seen other doctors then Dr. S.

Due to HIPPA we are never going to see his health records and any illness he had that did not cause his death are of no concern to the police.

7. If he knew about it, or had any suspicion ( via a blood test) do you believe that

the protocol was proper?

The protocol for many illness was not followed.

Drug addiction – Wrong doctor to see.

Cancer – Wrong doctor but patient must decide if they want treatment or treatment not needed due to being terminal.

Joint pain. - Let me treat it by prescribing more pain meds along with meds to help with withdrawal. ( Does this make any sense?)

8. Who would hire you if it was found that you did not follow protocol and therefore may have caused Prince to suffer even more pain than is necessary by prescribing nothing resembling a cancer pain management protocol? Who would trust that facility that you worked for, or is working for now?

Once again you are ignoring the fact that Dr. S covered his tracks with the drugs and Prince did not die from Cancer. No Dr. can force a patient to stay in a hospital all that can do is recommend they stay and follow certain care. The doctor is going to document their recommendations and the patient is going to sign a release saying they understand and they are on their own if they choose not to listen. I am sure the documentation exists and once again you are assuming that this cancer could be treated and that treatment can be forced on a patient.

8. Let's say that Prince was diagnosed with cancer from a doctor in another state, are there any interstate protocols that would allow said facility , insurance, governing medical body to ascertain that the information is factual?? Were there any other doctors implicated in Prince's "care" in the media, on social media, near the media, around the media, under the media, between the media?

No one in the media is going to know about his health due to HIPPA. So why would any info about other illness be in the media? Once again you can have protocols but you cannot force care on a patient and we have no idea what stage this cancer is in. Why would his medical records or issues have to be determined to be real by anyone especially if that is not what killed him? For what purpose?

9. Why hasn't this facility or Dr.Schulenberg not been sued by the estate for malpractice, violation of oath , etc. etc. etc.?

I am not sure what they would be sued for if Prince had cancer and no more treatment could be given if it was terminal. If he did not want treatment how can you sue? The family could raise a fuss about Dr. S writing those pain meds but they were not written for Prince they were written for Kirk. You can sue people for anything but you have to prove it. Where is the proof that Prince did not receive the care he wanted?

I do not know that back in the Fall of 2016 there was a rumor that the family was going to sue for malpractice and back in the spring of 2017 there was a malpractice attorney added as one of Tyka's attorney but now that lawyer is no longer listed for her. So, it is possible that the family did considering suing.

10. Wasn't a warrant served at that facility? Do you think the Attorney General in the state of Minnesota would have gotten involved if that facility was found to be in violation after almost two years? Do we have to wait for the book for that too?

The warrant was to get Prince's medical records. Once again if cancer care was not wanted by the patient or needed the facility would not be in any trouble.

I have already explained this and Dr. S covering his tracks on the Rxs already as many of your questions just repeat the same thing repeatedly.

Next time you decided to write a book think out your questions better and live off the snarkycomments. Also do your research. In America, we do not force care on anyone, learn something about Pancreatic Cancer, and pay attention to some of the comments on the board.

It was already disclosed by one other orger that the cancer issue was on an open Facebook group so this is not some secret information anymore and I am not the only one who knows about it. In fact it is so well known it is not even a point of discussion on other boards or groups. Only on the org were all critical thinking as gone out the window.

Yea. You're clever by half because you seem to think you comprehend what is written, yet your response is as relevant as a mule doing math. How many times have most of us had to repeat things to you , only to see you finally comprehend that you were chasing your tail months later? It is the funniest thing to watch. At least you make us all chuckle throughout the day. You're good for something.

1. You missed the first leading question by a country mile. Probably thought you nailed it , eh? Who said anything about a short form? Did you really read the question? It clearly mentions: the "autopsy report ". Do you understand what the protocol is when an "autopsy report" is completed? The chain of custody , the certification process, what needs to be on the report, the Minnesota Board Of Practice evaluation process as it relates to an actual final report? Had you understood the premise of the question ,2-9 would have made perfect sense.

2. Whether Prince signed a waiver or not to deny himself any form of cancer treatment is not something I will be entertaining because I don't believe there is any proof that he had cancer of any form.

3. Someone else will probably be able to explain to you the importance of the (1st) question. Maybe you just might figure it out. It's a small spoon.

I am going to respond to you in a plain and simple manner. In a way that you can understand.

------

1.Did the private Facebook group ever connect the dots when it comes to what the actual protocol call is once an autopsy report has been completed in the state of Minnesota? I mean, after all, the "cancer" would have shown up somewhere , right?

------

1. You missed the first leading question by a country mile. Probably thought you nailed it , eh? Who said anything about a short form? Did you really read the question? It clearly mentions: the "autopsy report ". Do you understand what the protocol is when an "autopsy report" is completed? The chain of custody , the certification process, what needs to be on the report, the Minnesota Board Of Practice evaluation process as it relates to an actual final report? Had you understood the premise of the question ,2-9 would have made perfect sense.

2. Whether Prince signed a waiver or not to deny himself any form of cancer treatment is not something I will be entertaining because I don't believe there is any proof that he had cancer of any form.

--------

Obviously, if he had cancer it would be in the long report that the authorities have. What bearing does this have on what his family members are saying. The are saying what they believe to be true. Now they could be making this shit up but I know what I read and so do others. It does not matter to me or anyone eles if you do not believe it. Why can't you get this in your thick head.

If the authorities know from the report that he had cancer what different would that make. He did not die from cancer it would have no bearing on the investigation or the ME report at all and I do not see why Dr. S or the hospital would be in any trouble concerning cancer if any care that he had was documented or if it was documented that he did not want or need any care. ( that is what usually happend with terminal cancer. )

So far we have no information that he was seeing Dr. S for anything but "joint pain " issues which would include pain management = pills however, Dr. S did not write any controlled substances for Prince he wrote them for Kirk. He covered himself on the pain pill part so what protocol did he break. If he did not treat Prince for cancer or give him pain pills.

2. @Let's say you're Dr. Schulenberg and you're treating Prince just because you're "starstruck"...Do you think there is a protocol that he or the hospital has to follow and is governed by? Is he able to make up the rules as he goes without facing the risk of revocation and other penalties being assessed? Do you think Dr. Schulenberg was ever penalized? How about the facility? Please advise.

He did make up the rules as I explained to you already. The complete investiagtion into Prince's case has not concluded. We have doctors going to jail now for handing out pain pills like candy do you think these doctors started doing this just this year?

It took a long time for Elvis's doctor to go to jail and that was only after the the Presely family pushed for an investigation. Don't be so quick to assume Dr. S will not be penalized it will really depend on how well he covered his tracks concerning his " joint pain treatment "and he will not penalized for not treating Prince for cancer.

3. What if the autopsy report revealed that Prince had cancer, yet you, the family physician ,prescribed things contrary to the facility's protocol which is governed by the Minnesota Board of Medical Practice in conjunction with its own board of directors... Do you think the board of directors, the facility, or you would be in any position to treat patients pursuant to such a grave error without very stiff penalties and protocols being enforced?

You keep forgetting that his family members are saying this cancer was terminal. We do not force care on people in America. Dr S nor the hosptial would not be in any trouble if there was no care to give or Prince did not want any care. He was suppose to be seeing Dr S for joint pain not treatement of cancer. Dr S was not a cancer doctor he does appear on one website as a critcal care doctor but once again it depends on his notes to know what he was treating Prince for.

This is what I think and I really do not care what you think. You do not believe he had cancer fine I am good with that. I think he did have it or some serious health issue based on what I was told and many factual things that we know. I do not believe in coincedience and we are seeing too many that point to someone winding down their life and business not preparing to go to rehab and come back home in 30 or 60 days. I never have said he did not have a problem with pills. I just think he had additional health issues.

Nothing I have stated is impossible and your condensending tone does not change anything. It has no bearing on my life. So knock it the fuck off.

No one thinks Prince was innocent or naive. I actually believe he knew exactly what he was doing and took that pill on purpose. No reason to get confused when you have KJ's bottle that was just filled at the pharmacy with legit meds. He had access to legit med via Dr. S. Let us not forget that.

He took those bootlegg pills on purpose because he did not want to be here anymore or just wanted to let the cards land were they were going to land.

disch said:

I also don't think it's out of the realm of possibiltiy that he was mail-ordering stuff directly from the internet. I mean, I have absolutely no information about this, but it is commonly done and would certainly make it harder to locate a person to arrest.

-

In general I think Prince was much less innocent and naive about this stuff (how to get illegal drugs) than some people here think, and he was not sitting around doing research into the drugs he was getting (because people don't really do that). And I'm not saying he was a "lifelong junkie" or whatever. I'm saying he was an aware guy who lived in a world where drugs were not uncommon. And he had a lot of money at his disposal.

Menes said:

Have to agree that "Prince would have access to and knowledge about". Everything else was a front to maintain.

I think you misunderstood. What I meant was: He was not naive or innocent about how to acquire illegal drugs, or about using illegal drugs. I do not mean that he was naive that the drugs would kill him in the way they did. I believe that the facts that we know don't line up with suicide, but his death is what the ME determined, based on her analysis of the evidence (both publicly available and not): an accident.

-

As far as the know -- again, from actual reasonably reliable information -- his relationship with Dr S was very limited. We have no information about a relationship with Dr S that extended beyond the couple appointments in April 2016. I believe Prince was using illegal opioids from before that date, and he had a supplier that he trusted. I think at the end of his life he unknowingly got a bad batch (aligning with the news stories coming out at that time about fentanyl-laced pills flooding the opioid black market), and think it's likely that he didn't know that this bad batch was actually riskier than the drugs he had been taking prior to then. In other words, it's possible he didn't feel the urgency to use legit drugs vs. his illegal drugs -- that was something that those around him were trying to get him to do.

laurarichardson said:

No one thinks Prince was innocent or naive. I actually believe he knew exactly what he was doing and took that pill on purpose. No reason to get confused when you have KJ's bottle that was just filled at the pharmacy with legit meds. He had access to legit med via Dr. S. Let us not forget that.

He took those bootlegg pills on purpose because he did not want to be here anymore or just wanted to let the cards land were they were going to land.

disch said:

I also don't think it's out of the realm of possibiltiy that he was mail-ordering stuff directly from the internet. I mean, I have absolutely no information about this, but it is commonly done and would certainly make it harder to locate a person to arrest.

-

In general I think Prince was much less innocent and naive about this stuff (how to get illegal drugs) than some people here think, and he was not sitting around doing research into the drugs he was getting (because people don't really do that). And I'm not saying he was a "lifelong junkie" or whatever. I'm saying he was an aware guy who lived in a world where drugs were not uncommon. And he had a lot of money at his disposal.

[Edited 1/25/18 7:29am]

cindyt said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

It is astounding to me that LR failed to comprehend the brilliance in Question #1 which clearly leads to the answer to the questions so many of us here are seeking. This is the classic difference between wielding a finely-honed intelligence in the service of unraveling a problem or question and just taking a cursory look at words without comprehension and having the on-going temerity to offer up shallow, pedestrian, repetitive, drivel that only serves to further confuse and muddy the questions at hand...served up with big spoonfuls of arrogance, unkindness and hostility. Back to the task at hand, Menes! ONWARD!!!

Huh? and there shouldn't have been a comma after repetitive, by the way...

good catch, cindyt!

Bodhitheblackdog said:

cindyt said:

good catch, cindyt!

Of all the things to worry about..it's a comma!

"think it's likely that he didn't know that this bad batch was actually riskier than the drugs he had been taking prior to then. "

I think this is bull. If he had a legit source via Kirk's Rx which was found at the scence how would he not know the difference? We also have no information about how long he was seeing Dr. S or if he saw other doctors and we never will.

If he had scripts written by Dr. S in Kirk's name to protect his identiy I am sure this just did not occur to him in April of 2016. I am sure he had surgery under a another name, treatments, Rx under another name and saw other doctors. We know he traveled under another a name.

There was a rumor that he had sepsis back in 2014. We know from the police logs an ambulance picked up a male from PP back in 2014. He had seen doctors before and I am sure it was not under his own name.

I do not think anyone around was trying to get him to do anything. I am not even sure the intervention was something he was aware of or keen on being involved in. No one ever said Dr. K spoke directly to Prince it is believed he sent his son after speaking with Pheadra and now sources are saying Prince was supposed to be at a holistic healing center that morning. So if was deathly ill and needed Suxbone given to him by two people that were not licensed to do so why would he have schuduled an appointment to be somewhere else. In addtion, KJ and company stood around for 45 minutes waiting for him. If he was so gravely ill why did they not look sooner or take Andrew to his living quarters.

Does not sound like someone who is packing a bag to go to rehab.

disch said:

I think you misunderstood. What I meant was: He was not naive or innocent about how to acquire illegal drugs, or about using illegal drugs. I do not mean that he was naive that the drugs would kill him in the way they did. I believe that the facts that we know don't line up with suicide, but his death is what the ME determined, based on her analysis of the evidence (both publicly available and not): an accident.

-

As far as the know -- again, from actual reasonably reliable information -- his relationship with Dr S was very limited. We have no information about a relationship with Dr S that extended beyond the couple appointments in April 2016. I believe Prince was using illegal opioids from before that date, and he had a supplier that he trusted. I think at the end of his life he unknowingly got a bad batch (aligning with the news stories coming out at that time about fentanyl-laced pills flooding the opioid black market), and think it's likely that he didn't know that this bad batch was actually riskier than the drugs he had been taking prior to then. In other words, it's possible he didn't feel the urgency to use legit drugs vs. his illegal drugs -- that was something that those around him were trying to get him to do.

laurarichardson said:

No one thinks Prince was innocent or naive. I actually believe he knew exactly what he was doing and took that pill on purpose. No reason to get confused when you have KJ's bottle that was just filled at the pharmacy with legit meds. He had access to legit med via Dr. S. Let us not forget that.

He took those bootlegg pills on purpose because he did not want to be here anymore or just wanted to let the cards land were they were going to land.

[Edited 1/25/18 7:29am]

[Edited 1/25/18 9:31am]

I know I'm not supposed to mention the UK, lol - but I just wanted to recount an interesting discussion I had yesterday with a medical lead in my locality, one who works closely with the coroner and who is playing a central role in designing clinical strategy for the region.

.
We were discussing mental health provision and how we need to supply data - including suicide rates - to the medical authorities so we can work on developing preventative measures. He told me that the data on suicide (and he said this from a global perspective, as he has also worked in the USA and other areas) is woefully inadequate, and that the figures published are far lower than they should be in reality.
.
This is because the coroner will NOT record suicide unless the evidence is absolutely 100% incontrovertible. If there is anything to reduce this assurity by even a fraction of a percent, they will record the death as 'accidental', safe in the knowledge that death certificates and ensuing records can be amended should compelling evidence come to light at a later date.
.
To record a suicide from the outset, the coroner requires not only a form of first-person narrative which can be definitively traced back to the deceased, there also has to be no hint of possible duress. So, in short, if a person decides to kill themselves - whether that be absolutely intentional, or as a result of 'letting the dice fall where they may' - unless that person has made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that it was their own choice, a totally deliberate action, with no other party involved in any capacity, it won't be recorded as a suicide - at least not initially, and possibly never.

Dibblekins said:

I know I'm not supposed to mention the UK, lol - but I just wanted to recount an interesting discussion I had yesterday with a medical lead in my locality, one who works closely with the coroner and who is playing a central role in designing clinical strategy for the region.

.
We were discussing mental health provision and how we need to supply data - including suicide rates - to the medical authorities so we can work on developing preventative measures. He told me that the data on suicide (and he said this from a global perspective, as he has also worked in the USA and other areas) is woefully inadequate, and that the figures published are far lower than they should be in reality.
.
This is because the coroner will NOT record suicide unless the evidence is absolutely 100% incontrovertible. If there is anything to reduce this assurity by even a fraction of a percent, they will record the death as 'accidental', safe in the knowledge that death certificates and ensuing records can be amended should compelling evidence come to light at a later date.
.
To record a suicide from the outset, the coroner requires not only a form of first-person narrative which can be definitively traced back to the deceased, there also has to be no hint of possible duress. So, in short, if a person decides to kill themselves - whether that be absolutely intentional, or as a result of 'letting the dice fall where they may' - unless that person has made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that it was their own choice, a totally deliberate action, with no other party involved in any capacity, it won't be recorded as a suicide - at least not initially, and possibly never.

Thank you. This is what I have been saying all along. ME cannot put down suicide without evidence.

Anyone can decide to kill themselves at anytime and if the whole world thinks you are a drug addict what better means for doing it.

[Edited 1/25/18 10:07am]

laurarichardson said:

Dibblekins said:

I know I'm not supposed to mention the UK, lol - but I just wanted to recount an interesting discussion I had yesterday with a medical lead in my locality, one who works closely with the coroner and who is playing a central role in designing clinical strategy for the region.

.
We were discussing mental health provision and how we need to supply data - including suicide rates - to the medical authorities so we can work on developing preventative measures. He told me that the data on suicide (and he said this from a global perspective, as he has also worked in the USA and other areas) is woefully inadequate, and that the figures published are far lower than they should be in reality.
.
This is because the coroner will NOT record suicide unless the evidence is absolutely 100% incontrovertible. If there is anything to reduce this assurity by even a fraction of a percent, they will record the death as 'accidental', safe in the knowledge that death certificates and ensuing records can be amended should compelling evidence come to light at a later date.
.
To record a suicide from the outset, the coroner requires not only a form of first-person narrative which can be definitively traced back to the deceased, there also has to be no hint of possible duress. So, in short, if a person decides to kill themselves - whether that be absolutely intentional, or as a result of 'letting the dice fall where they may' - unless that person has made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that it was their own choice, a totally deliberate action, with no other party involved in any capacity, it won't be recorded as a suicide - at least not initially, and possibly never.

Thank you. This is what I have been saying all along. ME cannot put down suicide without evidence.

Any can decide to kill themselves at anytime and if the whole world thinks you are a drug addict what better means for doing it.

You're welcome - I literally had to bite my tongue not to say, 'Like Prince, you mean?' during the course of our dialogue (it was in a big public meeting)...I dunno, I just thought it might seem a bit bizarre, lol...Wish I had now though - he might have had some thoughts on it!

If / when I see him again, I might quiz him on it!

Well, none of us really know what was going on in people's heads. We can only rely on public information about this case that we deem reliable, and information we glean by learning about the topic generally through reliable information. We all have our own standards for what we consider reliable information and our own interest in learning more about these subjects generally.

-

And just to rely to a couple of your points: He was treated on April 20, at the hospital. So it seems probably that when he left, it appeared that the situation was stabilized -- at least enough to last until the next day. I do not believe he had a "holistic health appointment" the morning of April 21, for reasons we already disccussed quite a bit (that was a piece of info that was floated in the early days, when very little was known about the situation. The "holistic health appointment" was in fact the intervention.)

-

And I've said over and over and over about the "45 minutes standing around": That it's likely that they either planned to meet Prince at a certain time (say 9:30) and had arrived early, or were waiting for him to get himself together and come downstairs. They probably believed the "grave situation" (an expression only used by Dr K's lawyer, by the way) had passed based on the treatment Prince recieved the day before (and, I'm sure, whatever prince told them), and that things were under control for the immediate time being. They were wrong.

-

And that's all I have to say about that! I don't find it interesting to simply repeat myself ad nauseum; I know that constant repitition of the same statements is not a problem for you.

laurarichardson said:

"think it's likely that he didn't know that this bad batch was actually riskier than the drugs he had been taking prior to then. "

I think this is bull. If he had a legit source via Kirk's Rx which was found at the scence how would he not know the difference? We also have no information about how long he was seeing Dr. S or if he saw other doctors and we never will.

If he had scripts written by Dr. S in Kirk's name to protect his identiy I am sure this just did not occur to him in April of 2016. I am sure he had surgery under a another name, treatments, Rx under another name and saw other doctors. We know he traveled under another a name.

There was a rumor that he had sepsis back in 2014. We know from the police logs an ambulance picked up a male from PP back in 2014. He had seen doctors before and I am sure it was not under his own name.

I do not think anyone around was trying to get him to do anything. I am not even sure the intervention was something he was aware of or keen on being involved in. No one ever said Dr. K spoke directly to Prince it is believed he sent his son after speaking with Pheadra and now sources are saying Prince was supposed to be at a holistic healing center that morning. So if was deathly ill and needed Suxbone given to him by two people that were not licensed to do so why would he have schuduled an appointment to be somewhere else. In addtion, KJ and company stood around for 45 minutes waiting for him. If he was so gravely ill why did they not look sooner or take Andrew to his living quarters.

Does not sound like someone who is packing a bag to go to rehab.

disch said:

I think you misunderstood. What I meant was: He was not naive or innocent about how to acquire illegal drugs, or about using illegal drugs. I do not mean that he was naive that the drugs would kill him in the way they did. I believe that the facts that we know don't line up with suicide, but his death is what the ME determined, based on her analysis of the evidence (both publicly available and not): an accident.

-

As far as the know -- again, from actual reasonably reliable information -- his relationship with Dr S was very limited. We have no information about a relationship with Dr S that extended beyond the couple appointments in April 2016. I believe Prince was using illegal opioids from before that date, and he had a supplier that he trusted. I think at the end of his life he unknowingly got a bad batch (aligning with the news stories coming out at that time about fentanyl-laced pills flooding the opioid black market), and think it's likely that he didn't know that this bad batch was actually riskier than the drugs he had been taking prior to then. In other words, it's possible he didn't feel the urgency to use legit drugs vs. his illegal drugs -- that was something that those around him were trying to get him to do.

[Edited 1/25/18 7:29am]

[Edited 1/25/18 9:31am]

Dibblekins said:

laurarichardson said:

Thank you. This is what I have been saying all along. ME cannot put down suicide without evidence.

Any can decide to kill themselves at anytime and if the whole world thinks you are a drug addict what better means for doing it.

You're welcome - I literally had to bite my tongue not to say, 'Like Prince, you mean?' during the course of our dialogue (it was in a big public meeting)...I dunno, I just thought it might seem a bit bizarre, lol...Wish I had now though - he might have had some thoughts on it!

If / when I see him again, I might quiz him on it!

See what he thinks about it. I had a chance to speak to some people in law enforcement and they had interesting things to say about the case.

Well the problem is that an intervention with actual controlled substances involved is not holistic at all. We are hearing about this appointment again from a actual news source that is also reporting on the progress of the criminal case. Not sure it is wrong twice and I am sure the media knows the difference between an intervention for drug issues and holistic healing. I do not think they have been misconstruted it as the same thing. In addition, a holistic healing center is only a few miles from Paisley Park.

Not going to address the standing around part. I think he had some dim bulbs working for him.

I am not repeating myself. I am addressing your statements which are the same even when new info comes to light.

disch said:

Well, none of us really know what was going on in people's heads. We can only rely on public information about this case that we deem reliable, and information we glean by learning about the topic generally through reliable information. We all have our own standards for what we consider reliable information and our own interest in learning more about these subjects generally.

-

And just to rely to a couple of your points: He was treated on April 20, at the hospital. So it seems probably that when he left, it appeared that the situation was stabilized -- at least enough to last until the next day. I do not believe he had a "holistic health appointment" the morning of April 21, for reasons we already disccussed quite a bit (that was a piece of info that was floated in the early days, when very little was known about the situation. The "holistic health appointment" was in fact the intervention.)

-

And I've said over and over and over about the "45 minutes standing around": That it's likely that they either planned to meet Prince at a certain time (say 9:30) and had arrived early, or were waiting for him to get himself together and come downstairs. They probably believed the "grave situation" (an expression only used by Dr K's lawyer, by the way) had passed based on the treatment Prince recieved the day before (and, I'm sure, whatever prince told them), and that things were under control for the immediate time being. They were wrong.

-

And that's all I have to say about that! I don't find it interesting to simply repeat myself ad nauseum; I know that constant repitition of the same statements is not a problem for you.

laurarichardson said:

"think it's likely that he didn't know that this bad batch was actually riskier than the drugs he had been taking prior to then. "

I think this is bull. If he had a legit source via Kirk's Rx which was found at the scence how would he not know the difference? We also have no information about how long he was seeing Dr. S or if he saw other doctors and we never will.

If he had scripts written by Dr. S in Kirk's name to protect his identiy I am sure this just did not occur to him in April of 2016. I am sure he had surgery under a another name, treatments, Rx under another name and saw other doctors. We know he traveled under another a name.

There was a rumor that he had sepsis back in 2014. We know from the police logs an ambulance picked up a male from PP back in 2014. He had seen doctors before and I am sure it was not under his own name.

I do not think anyone around was trying to get him to do anything. I am not even sure the intervention was something he was aware of or keen on being involved in. No one ever said Dr. K spoke directly to Prince it is believed he sent his son after speaking with Pheadra and now sources are saying Prince was supposed to be at a holistic healing center that morning. So if was deathly ill and needed Suxbone given to him by two people that were not licensed to do so why would he have schuduled an appointment to be somewhere else. In addtion, KJ and company stood around for 45 minutes waiting for him. If he was so gravely ill why did they not look sooner or take Andrew to his living quarters.

Does not sound like someone who is packing a bag to go to rehab.

[Edited 1/25/18 9:31am]

disch said:

Hmm, i guess... I think, though, that someone can both buy drugs on the black market from some kind of drug dealer AND think the pills are legit. Like a hypothetical example might be: The dealer claims that they get their product from thieves who steal legit drugs from pharmacies. The dealer's customers think they're getting legit drugs. And maybe they are! Maybe the dealer really does get his stash from pharmacy thieves. But the dealer also might get their product from counterfeiters who make the drugs look like the legit pharmacy version, and the dealer's clients can't tell the difference.

-

I would assume the whole purpose of making counterfeit drugs look like legit drugs is to trick the buyers into thinking they're getting legit drugs (or at least pills that contain the exact same ingredients as the legit drugs).

-

No matter if the drugs were counterfeit or legit, Prince would have known that the method he used to acquire them was illegal (I'm not saying that in a judgmental way -- just noting that Prince knew that by not having his own prescription he was going outside the legal medical system).

purplefam99 said:

i think luvsexy may be saying something along these lines perhaps. hey man i need this medicine

go to the dr get an rx in your name an then give them to me. i don't want the pills in my name cause

i am famous. Here is the $$ for you to go to the dr and the pharmacy. but maybe my friend does that then get lazy and says i am just gonna go thru the black market and get the meds so i don't

have to hassel with dr appointments and what not. my friend won't know cause they look just like

regular meds.

*and then this protocol is established and the friend never mentions to person taking the meds how

exactly they are getting them. friend probably isn't even aware they could be made in a way that they would be toxic when used normally. both are clueless.

i don't know if that is what luvsexy is saying, but maybe

[Edited 1/24/18 18:29pm]

.

I am with your line of thinking. The fact that the pills were mislabed and marked as Hydrocodone raises a big red flag with me because that is a common pain medication that Prince could have easily gotten a Rx for from Dr. Schulemberg.

disch said:

I think you misunderstood. What I meant was: He was not naive or innocent about how to acquire illegal drugs, or about using illegal drugs. I do not mean that he was naive that the drugs would kill him in the way they did. I believe that the facts that we know don't line up with suicide, but his death is what the ME determined, based on her analysis of the evidence (both publicly available and not): an accident.

-

As far as the know -- again, from actual reasonably reliable information -- his relationship with Dr S was very limited. We have no information about a relationship with Dr S that extended beyond the couple appointments in April 2016. I believe Prince was using illegal opioids from before that date, and he had a supplier that he trusted. I think at the end of his life he unknowingly got a bad batch (aligning with the news stories coming out at that time about fentanyl-laced pills flooding the opioid black market), and think it's likely that he didn't know that this bad batch was actually riskier than the drugs he had been taking prior to then. In other words, it's possible he didn't feel the urgency to use legit drugs vs. his illegal drugs -- that was something that those around him were trying to get him to do.

laurarichardson said:

No one thinks Prince was innocent or naive. I actually believe he knew exactly what he was doing and took that pill on purpose. No reason to get confused when you have KJ's bottle that was just filled at the pharmacy with legit meds. He had access to legit med via Dr. S. Let us not forget that.

He took those bootlegg pills on purpose because he did not want to be here anymore or just wanted to let the cards land were they were going to land.

[Edited 1/25/18 7:29am]

.

I also wonder if Prince got those illegal Fentanyl pills on the 20th, when he was running to Walgreens, and perhaps made an extra errand?