...and if there are people who have factual knowledge about Prince's health but they are desperate to keep that knowledge from the general public, they should (and would) not be talking about it on social media, whether on "closed groups" or not ("closed groups" are not exactly impenetrable by all kinds of people, hence the fact that many people who post here apparently have no problem acessing them).

Bodhitheblackdog said:

disch said:

I'm still confused why cancer would be treated like a deep, dark secret that only those privy to the deepest depths of the internet could know about. There's no particular social stigma around most cancers such as pancreatic (unlike say opioid addiction, which does have a social stigma). And what would typically upset people about a cancer diagnosis -- the thought of someone suffering and dying -- is a moot point here because Prince is already dead.

-

So frankly, this all seems a little silly.

Brilliantly stated, Thanks!

purplefam99 said:

Menes said:

Well why even bring it up in a public forum if it was privately disclosed to you? She made it public so I have the right to ask . I wil ask her a thousand more times if I so desire.It's not your rumor to worry about ,now is it?

no it isn't, but since you brought up sharing the info on a "public forum" i thought i was free to

comment on your comment like your commenting on the rumor.

Yes, yes. You are the only one who is concerned about what is "good practice" on a PUBLIC FORUM, while neglecting the fact that a rumor on a PUBLIC FORUM about Prince having cancer is one of the same. Such a "good practice". How ironic. Higher education on display.

There are closed Facebook groups and private messages that have been discussing, selling and distrubing bootlegg material for over a decade and they are still functioning. People talk via social media maybe they should not but they do. In addition, many of Prince's relatives do not have their Facebook pages closed. They are actually open.

disch said:

...and if there are people who have factual knowledge about Prince's health but they are desperate to keep that knowledge from the general public, they should (and would) not be talking about it on social media, whether on "closed groups" or not ("closed groups" are not exactly impenetrable by all kinds of people, hence the fact that many people who post here apparently have no problem acessing them).

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Brilliantly stated, Thanks!

Menes said:

purplefam99 said:

no it isn't, but since you brought up sharing the info on a "public forum" i thought i was free to

comment on your comment like your commenting on the rumor.

Yes, yes. You are the only one who is concerned about what is "good practice" on a PUBLIC FORUM, while neglecting the fact that a rumor on a PUBLIC FORUM about Prince having cancer is one of the same. Such a "good practice". How ironic. Higher education on display.

you could just be on here as one person no need to create another persona.

purplefam99 said:

Menes said:

Yes, yes. You are the only one who is concerned about what is "good practice" on a PUBLIC FORUM, while neglecting the fact that a rumor on a PUBLIC FORUM about Prince having cancer is one of the same. Such a "good practice". How ironic. Higher education on display.

you could just be on here as one person no need to create another persona.

Huh? What? Huh? Scribble scrabble. One more time, please.

laurarichardson said:

There are closed Facebook groups and private messages that have been discussing, selling and distrubing bootlegg material for over a decade and they are still functioning. People talk via social media maybe they should not but they do. In addition, many of Prince's relatives do not have their Facebook pages closed. They are actually open.

disch said:

...and if there are people who have factual knowledge about Prince's health but they are desperate to keep that knowledge from the general public, they should (and would) not be talking about it on social media, whether on "closed groups" or not ("closed groups" are not exactly impenetrable by all kinds of people, hence the fact that many people who post here apparently have no problem acessing them).

So how is the cancer rumor any different from the AIDS rumor? I missed that part.

Yes I'm aware of closed groups and private messages. What I'm saying is: Anyone who has information that they truly want keep secret from the public does not post that information on closed groups, because those groups are not actually secret. What would be this person motive for posting this deeply secret info to this group of people on Facebook that they don't even personally know?

laurarichardson said:

There are closed Facebook groups and private messages that have been discussing, selling and distrubing bootlegg material for over a decade and they are still functioning. People talk via social media maybe they should not but they do. In addition, many of Prince's relatives do not have their Facebook pages closed. They are actually open.

disch said:

...and if there are people who have factual knowledge about Prince's health but they are desperate to keep that knowledge from the general public, they should (and would) not be talking about it on social media, whether on "closed groups" or not ("closed groups" are not exactly impenetrable by all kinds of people, hence the fact that many people who post here apparently have no problem acessing them).

You keep digging. So I am going to throw you a bone. They did not want to keep it a secret with the people they were talking to so they told those people and those people forwarded the info.

Remember none of any experience dealing with the media and fans at all. The distant relatives are not going to inherit anything so maybe they just do not care who knows.

According to Charles Smith he and other family members are not real happy with being left in the dark so telling other people could be a way for family members to vent. They may want to "real story to get out" or the story they think sounds better. At any rate I suspect some talked because they are disgruntled with the way things are going. We know Charles is very disgruntled.

disch said:

Yes I'm aware of closed groups and private messages. What I'm saying is: Anyone who has information that they truly want keep secret from the public does not post that information on closed groups, because those groups are not actually secret. What would be this person motive for posting this deeply secret info to this group of people on Facebook that they don't even personally know?

laurarichardson said:

There are closed Facebook groups and private messages that have been discussing, selling and distrubing bootlegg material for over a decade and they are still functioning. People talk via social media maybe they should not but they do. In addition, many of Prince's relatives do not have their Facebook pages closed. They are actually open.

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

There are closed Facebook groups and private messages that have been discussing, selling and distrubing bootlegg material for over a decade and they are still functioning. People talk via social media maybe they should not but they do. In addition, many of Prince's relatives do not have their Facebook pages closed. They are actually open.

So how is the cancer rumor any different from the AIDS rumor? I missed that part.

Can't help you if you cannot figure that one out.

laurarichardson said:

You keep digging. So I am going to throw you a bone. They did not want to keep it a secret with the people they were talking to so they told those people and those people forwarded the info.

Remember none of any experience dealing with the media and fans at all. The distant relatives are not going to inherit anything so maybe they just do not care who knows.

According to Charles Smith he and other family members are not real happy with being left in the dark so telling other people could be a way for family members to vent. They may want to "real story to get out" or the story they think sounds better. At any rate I suspect some talked because they are disgruntled with the way things are going. We know Charles is very disgruntled.

disch said:

Yes I'm aware of closed groups and private messages. What I'm saying is: Anyone who has information that they truly want keep secret from the public does not post that information on closed groups, because those groups are not actually secret. What would be this person motive for posting this deeply secret info to this group of people on Facebook that they don't even personally know?

LR, I knew we could count on you to tell it. Help us out!

leadline said:

sonshine said:

herb4 said:

Yet every doctor who has examined the autopsy results so far either list his cause of death as homicide, or, potential homicide, with not one post review of the results listing it as an accidental overdose.

[Edited 1/21/18 16:07pm]

um...


http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/02/health/prince-death-opioid-overdose/index.html

disch said:

Rebeljuice said:

Menes said:

I don't remember the exact sequence but I think that call to the Kornfelds was a last minute "hail mary" made on the day before he died. Between the 14th and the 20th, something dramatic must have taken place for them to have him fly out immediately, (qualified or not). Whoever made that call did not qualify Andrew, nor did they do any research . This doesn't surprise me because Kirk picked Dr. Schulenberg to "treat" Prince. Millions of dollars at your disposal and Kirk recommends your doctor? Why would you even go that route if you're so buttoned up with your privacy? Go figure.

Now let's just say Prince did in fact have chronic pain from (a) a terminal illness that he was going to die from, or (b) chronic long term pain from hip surgery, it would make no sense for him to attempt to eliminate the ingestion of opiates for pain relief if it's the only thing that granted him temporary relief. If he knew about the intervention , it would mean that he was willing to deal with the pain some other way. If you have pain from terminal cancer, that would probably not be up for discussion.

I think there may have been times between the 14th and the 20th where he may have tried to wean himself off of whatever it was ( cold turkey) and that had some nasty withdrawal symptoms that were cause for alarm. We are talking years of usage, so will-power is about as useless as tits on a bull at this point. I think that's why Kornfeld was called in.

Since Tyka was so close to him, when did she get wind of any of this? No one called her until after it was all over? She was preparing. Tsk.

Do you remember what Tyka's husband said just after his death? He said Prince had been awake for several days (cant remember the exact amount). His comment was then jumped on and squashed once people had time to get their story straight.

I believe he was awake for days on end after the Moline incident. I think he was in the midst of cold turkey and was not handling it well. Not sleeping. Not eating. Erratic behaviour such as throwing a party at home when he should be resting etc.

I imagine lots of visits to the toilet and dehydration. So much so that a visit to the doctor to test hydration levels and organ functions. Perhaps those initial tests allerted his "friends" to the severity of the problem resulting in the intervention.

Drips, tests, agitation, erratic behaviour, Walgreens visits for non prescribed remedies for vomiting, sleep etc. It all points to a man trying cold turkey on his own, going crazy with the effects of it and the lack of sleep. So much so that he cant take any more and reaches for a pill that he knows will take the edge off...

...."Just one more before I get help tomorrow"...




...."or maybe one of these and put a stop to all this drama once and for all?"...

This makes sense. good post

cloveringold85 said:

XxAxX said:

agree. i don't see Prince committing suicide. imo it would have been against his spiritual beliefs. then again, i wasn't there and didn't know what he was fighting in his last few days. if he did commit suicide i think God will understand and love him all the same. no judgment.

the only reason i wish we could all truly know what happened is because of all the speculation, people saying he had aids, pancreatic cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, liver disease, kidney disease, he was murdered for his masters, he was poisoned by a jealous ex, and so on and on etc.

most of the speculation here at prince.org is merely... speculation. everyone has their own pet theory. true knowledge would put this to rest. but, if Prince wanted it private then so it should be.

[Edited 1/22/18 11:59am]

.

I agree. To add; there is no shame in having a terminal disease and if that was the case with Prince, I don't see what would be so secretive about it.

Seriously? the guy was secretive about everything. Remember how he handled the death of his son?
What the hell planet am I on?

laurarichardson said:

You keep digging. So I am going to throw you a bone. They did not want to keep it a secret with the people they were talking to so they told those people and those people forwarded the info.

Remember none of any experience dealing with the media and fans at all. The distant relatives are not going to inherit anything so maybe they just do not care who knows.

According to Charles Smith he and other family members are not real happy with being left in the dark so telling other people could be a way for family members to vent. They may want to "real story to get out" or the story they think sounds better. At any rate I suspect some talked because they are disgruntled with the way things are going. We know Charles is very disgruntled.

I can verify part of what Laura is saying because I am in the closed FB page that Laura is referring to from which information came forth about P telling employees to remove their personal belongings from Paisley Park a week prior to his death.

But I am not in agreement with Laura about Charles Smith because who the fuck cares what he has to say?

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

laurarichardson said:

You keep digging. So I am going to throw you a bone. They did not want to keep it a secret with the people they were talking to so they told those people and those people forwarded the info.

Remember none of any experience dealing with the media and fans at all. The distant relatives are not going to inherit anything so maybe they just do not care who knows.

According to Charles Smith he and other family members are not real happy with being left in the dark so telling other people could be a way for family members to vent. They may want to "real story to get out" or the story they think sounds better. At any rate I suspect some talked because they are disgruntled with the way things are going. We know Charles is very disgruntled.

I can verify part of what Laura is saying because I am in the closed FB page that Laura is referring to from which information came forth about P telling employees to remove their personal belongings from Paisley Park a week prior to his death.

But I am not in agreement with Laura about Charles Smith because who the fuck cares what he has to say?

Lol, I can verify too because I am also there. I can also verify that there are a few others here on the org who also are part of that group and were privy to that info. And yeah, agree with ISLIJAG re Charles Smith, who is looking for his piece of the purple pie since he isn't an heir.

I resepect the "none of my business part" -- except that apparently, based on what folks here are claiming, these family members are gabbing about this on social media. And also the fact of his death made many things much more uncomfortable than this public already.

-

I'm not actually asking/wanting anyone to reveal this alleged terminal cancer; I think that the facts we do know make it highly unlikely that he had that diagnosis. I'm more curious why some folks here are so willing to accept as fact something that they say they saw on some social media account, and why they (not the family members necessarily) are so cagey here about things that are they claim are widely and openly discussed on other sites.

rogifan said:

disch said:

I'm still confused why cancer would be treated like a deep, dark secret that only those privy to the deepest depths of the internet could know about. There's no particular social stigma around most cancers such as pancreatic (unlike say opioid addiction, which does have a social stigma). And what would typically upset people about a cancer diagnosis -- the thought of someone suffering and dying -- is a moot point here because Prince is already dead.

Probably more none of your business than thinking there’s some stigma around cancer (or some other illness). I’m sure if the family could have kept the ME report private they would have done that.

[Edited 1/23/18 10:54am]

Menes said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Very good points you make.

.

See, that's just the thing, if Prince's condition was a "grave medical emergency", you pick up the phone and dial 911 or get him to the nearest treatment facility, at a moments notice! Pronto! Not a second to waste! GO!!

.

It was stated that Will Smith spoke to Prince on the evening of the 20th, so obviously Prince was fine and in good spirits.

.

I think Dr. K is so full of it. Check his record--he has a lousy reputation and nearly killed several people who were under his care.

.

Dr. S. is a well-known and highly-regarded physician in Minneapolis, and I don't see why he would want to do something so unethical and ruin his career and reputation. It seems like a case of special treatment for rock stars, I dunno. We haven't heard a thing from Dr. Schulenberg since.

.

I agree; I don't think Prince knew about the intervention and his doctor's did not stablize him. They did not follow proper procedures.

.

What's even more strange is that Dr. Schulenberg was Kirk's doctor--it's almost like Prince went to see him at the last minute/last resort.

.

[Edited 1/22/18 16:47pm]

Yep. None of them did any research on that man or his clinic. It was a knee jerk reaction.

You are right. It was "special treatment for rock stars" but definitely not a high level of planning or treatment program for Prince.

Unless Dr. Schulenberg was blind,(or was feigning ignorance) if he had to run any kind of blood tests where information about Prince's WBC count, shape and size was accessible, there is no way he would not have known that there was something else going on besides addiction and withdrawals. Impossible.

.

I have a hard time believing that Prince's associates did not know who Dr. Kornfeld (Recovery without walls) was. He is well-known in Hollywood and has treated many celebrities and musicians. Honestly, what type of person would set-up an intervention without doing any research??

.

Yes, Dr. Schulenberg had to have known about Prince's condition.

Strawberrylova123 said:

Why is it so hard for people to understand that his family is not keeping this like a deep dark secret they're respecting his privacy! This is the same man who didn't talk publicly or even privately ( according to mayte) about his own child's death so what makes you think he's going to air his private business to his fans. We live in a age where people air every private thing going on in their lives, David Bowie didn't tell the world he was ill with cancer when he was alive because he was private like prince. [Edited 1/23/18 10:35am]

Help me to understand this: It wasn't a family member/doctor/ ME that came in here and posted this , IT WAS YOU.

You are the one who posted the "cancer" rumor, and by doing so, effectively rendered any rights to Prince's privacy , null and void in a PUBLIC FORUM. Were you given permission to do so? I bet not. So it is now up to us to hold you accountable for posting said rumor, when in fact, you don't know if it is a fact. None of you know it to be fact.

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

I don't know much details surrounding Petty's health problems/drug use, so I can't really comment on that. I don't know if Petty's doctor just gave him some Fentanyl patches to hold him over until he had surgery or took time off to let his hip heal, but then his hip was fractured, so he most-likely would have needed surgery.

.

From my perspective, Petty's family seems to be transparent in his cause of death. They aren't creating a shroud of mystery surrounding his death and secrets from the fans and general public, so it's an entirely different situation than Prince's, imo.

In L.A the ME report is public so they have to be transparent. His wife said he had cardiac problems so he may not have been getting any surgery.

.

I understand the laws in CA. Petty's family didn't have to say anything, but they did, to bring awareness about the opioid crisis.

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

In L.A the ME report is public so they have to be transparent. His wife said he had cardiac problems so he may not have been getting any surgery.

This is what his wife and daughter said, and nothing is mentioned about having a known heart problem.

Our family sat together this morning with the Medical Examiner – Coroner’s office and we were informed of their final analysis that Tom Petty passed away due to an accidental drug overdose as a result of taking a variety of medications.

Unfortunately Tom’s body suffered from many serious ailments including emphysema, knee problems and most significantly a fractured hip.

Despite this painful injury he insisted on keeping his commitment to his fans and he toured for 53 dates with a fractured hip and, as he did, it worsened to a more serious injury.

On the day he died he was informed his hip had graduated to a full on break and it is our feeling that the pain was simply unbearable and was the cause for his over use of medication.

We knew before the report was shared with us that he was prescribed various pain medications for a multitude of issues including Fentanyl patches and we feel confident that this was, as the coroner found, an unfortunate accident.

As a family we recognize this report may spark a further discussion on the opioid crisis and we feel that it is a healthy and necessary discussion and we hope in some way this report can save lives. Many people who overdose begin with a legitimate injury or simply do not understand the potency and deadly nature of these medications.

On a positive note we now know for certain he went painlessly and beautifully exhausted after doing what he loved the most, for one last time, performing live with his unmatchable rock band for his loyal fans on the biggest tour of his 40 plus year career. He was extremely proud of that achievement in the days before he passed.

We continue to mourn with you and marvel at Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers' incredible positive impact on music and the world. And we thank you all for your love and support over the last months.

Thank you also for respecting the memory of a man who was truly great during his time on this planet both publicly and privately.

We would be grateful if you could respect the privacy of the entire Heartbreaker family during this difficult time.

Dana Petty and Adria Petty

https://www.billboard.com...l-overdose

.

For the record, Petty had emphesyma (chronic lung condition).

Menes said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

Why is it so hard for people to understand that his family is not keeping this like a deep dark secret they're respecting his privacy! This is the same man who didn't talk publicly or even privately ( according to mayte) about his own child's death so what makes you think he's going to air his private business to his fans. We live in a age where people air every private thing going on in their lives, David Bowie didn't tell the world he was ill with cancer when he was alive because he was private like prince. [Edited 1/23/18 10:35am]

Help me to understand this: It wasn't a family member/doctor/ ME that came in here and posted this , IT WAS YOU.

You are the one who posted the "cancer" rumor, and by doing so, effectively rendered any rights to Prince's privacy , null and void in a PUBLIC FORUM. Were you given permission to do so? I bet not. So it is now up to us to hold you accountable for posting said rumor, when in fact, you don't know if it is a fact. None of you know it to be fact.

Agree Menes, you are correct.

disch said:

Here is Tom Petty's official autopsy summary report, from the LA coroner:

http://mec.lacounty.gov/w...2017-07259

-

Under Other Significant Causes, it says:

CORONARY ARTERY ATHEROSCLEROSIS, EMPHYSEMA

-

These are listed even though they did not cause his immediate death (that was organ failure and cardiac arrest caused by multiple drug toxicity) and even though they weren't even imminently terminal in and of themselves. Yet in Prince's case, the Other Significant Causes list "none applicable," even though some people here think he was in the final stage of terminal cancer. I think that end-stage terminal cancer would have been listed on Prince's short form, especially if it was a main reason he was taking opioids in the first place.

-

PennyPurple said:

This is what his wife and daughter said, and nothing is mentioned about having a known heart problem.

Our family sat together this morning with the Medical Examiner – Coroner’s office and we were informed of their final analysis that Tom Petty passed away due to an accidental drug overdose as a result of taking a variety of medications.

Unfortunately Tom’s body suffered from many serious ailments including emphysema, knee problems and most significantly a fractured hip.

Despite this painful injury he insisted on keeping his commitment to his fans and he toured for 53 dates with a fractured hip and, as he did, it worsened to a more serious injury.

On the day he died he was informed his hip had graduated to a full on break and it is our feeling that the pain was simply unbearable and was the cause for his over use of medication.

We knew before the report was shared with us that he was prescribed various pain medications for a multitude of issues including Fentanyl patches and we feel confident that this was, as the coroner found, an unfortunate accident.

As a family we recognize this report may spark a further discussion on the opioid crisis and we feel that it is a healthy and necessary discussion and we hope in some way this report can save lives. Many people who overdose begin with a legitimate injury or simply do not understand the potency and deadly nature of these medications.

On a positive note we now know for certain he went painlessly and beautifully exhausted after doing what he loved the most, for one last time, performing live with his unmatchable rock band for his loyal fans on the biggest tour of his 40 plus year career. He was extremely proud of that achievement in the days before he passed.

We continue to mourn with you and marvel at Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers' incredible positive impact on music and the world. And we thank you all for your love and support over the last months.

Thank you also for respecting the memory of a man who was truly great during his time on this planet both publicly and privately.

We would be grateful if you could respect the privacy of the entire Heartbreaker family during this difficult time.

Dana Petty and Adria Petty

https://www.billboard.com...l-overdose

.

Thanks for posting, Disch. Petty had a lot of serious health conditions, in addition to his fractured hip. Very sad.

Menes said:

cloveringold85 said:

Menes said:

Yep. None of them did any research on that man or his clinic. It was a knee jerk reaction.

You are right. It was "special treatment for rock stars" but definitely not a high level of planning or treatment program for Prince.

Unless Dr. Schulenberg was blind,(or was feigning ignorance) if he had to run any kind of blood tests where information about Prince's WBC count, shape and size was accessible, there is no way he would not have known that there was something else going on besides addiction and withdrawals. Impossible.

.

I have a hard time believing that Prince's associates did not know who Dr. Kornfeld (Recovery without walls) was. He is well-known in Hollywood and has treated many celebrities and musicians. Honestly, what type of person would set-up an intervention without doing any research??

.

Yes, Dr. Schulenberg had to have known about Prince's condition.

What type of person would set up an intervention without doing any research? The same person who set Prince up with Dr. Schulenberg is my best guess.

As to Dr. Schulenberg knowing about Prince's condition(s), I hope people realize what that means.

Either he is the most incompetent doctor, who for some odd reason, is still allowed by the BOARD of Medical Practice to practice medicine in his state or... you can fill in the blanks. Just cant have it both ways.

Strawberrylova123 said:

Menes said:

Help me to understand this: It wasn't a family member/doctor/ ME that came in here and posted this , IT WAS YOU.

You are the one who posted the "cancer" rumor, and by doing so, effectively rendered any rights to Prince's privacy , null and void in a PUBLIC FORUM. Were you given permission to do so? I bet not. So it is now up to us to hold you accountable for posting said rumor, when in fact, you don't know if it is a fact. None of you know it to be fact.

I didn't start the cancer rumor so stop saying that I'm the one who started the rumor! I was one of the people on this forum who didn't believe that prince had any terminal illness until i got info. And the person close within the camp posted this info on a public fb post so this info isn't private

Jesus of Nazareth help us all.

cloveringold85 said:

laurarichardson said:

cloveringold85 said: In L.A the ME report is public so they have to be transparent. His wife said he had cardiac problems so he may not have been getting any surgery.

.

I understand the laws in CA. Petty's family didn't have to say anything, but they did, to bring awareness about the opioid crisis.

The family didnt explain why or how Petty had both patch Fentanyl and illicit Fentanyl in his system.

[Edited 1/23/18 11:36am]

Menes said:

Strawberrylova123 said:

Menes said: I didn't start the cancer rumor so stop saying that I'm the one who started the rumor! I was one of the people on this forum who didn't believe that prince had any terminal illness until i got info. And the person close within the camp posted this info on a public fb post so this info isn't private

Jesus of Nazareth help us all.

Why. More then one person is telling you this and this person is telling you it was not even private. It is what it is. I want to ask you why this is worrying you so much? Prince was a human perfectly capable of being ill and having more then one health issue.

Goodness look at Tom Petty he was dealing with a half dozen issues at one time.

herb4 said:

leadline said:

Yet every doctor who has examined the autopsy results so far either list his cause of death as homicide, or, potential homicide, with not one post review of the results listing it as an accidental overdose.

[Edited 1/21/18 16:07pm]

um...


http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/02/health/prince-death-opioid-overdose/index.html

This is the short report. We are not going to see the long report or his health records because of the laws in MN. How many times has this been stated on this board. Nothing beyond the cause of his death would be in the public autopsy.