What is realistic about it? Prince's actions are a mystery. Assuming that a supreme love for himself is why he died--that is some mean-spirited shit and an opinion..not a fact that if verifiable. P could be narcisistic but he also could be selfless, it appears. He was a complicated man. That part is fact.

purplefam99 said:

purplerabbithole said:

So everything was just about his narcisism (wrecking his body was because he loved himself too much?) . He didn't do it for the music or his fans?> Heartless way of looking at it in my opinion.

Like you said we can have more than on thought in our heads as humans. It is kinda heartless and realistic.

I have something for the "no drugs found in his system" and conspiracy minded types.

I'm between jobs, on pain medicine (hydrocodone) and self paying for doctor's visits since it's still cheaper than COBRA. When you self pay for these medicines, you HAVE to take a drug screen. Ok. No problem right?

Here's the thing. 2 out of the 3 urine screens I've taken have me testing NEGATIVE for opiods. I take 10-20 mg a day depending on my pain level. These doctors tell me I have ZERO in my system. NONE. 2 days ago, at the time of my last test, I had ALREADY TAKEN 15 mg by 1pm appointment. They're going to cut me off if I test "negative" again next month, at which point I'll be lucky if I can can drag my ass out of bed, let alone work.

I have a hyper crazy metabolism and always have. Cursory research into the matter suggests that people with high metaboloic rates can often produce "false negatives". I think they think I'm selling them and not taking them. Fucked up thing is, I had 20 or so pills left and brought them with ne. Showed them to the doc. I asked them, "now, if I were selling them, don't you think I'd be smart enough to eat 2 of these before my test?"

My point is, depending on a person's metabolism (and often even even their GENES), they can eat these things and still not test positive - even with a blood test I'm learning. Prince strikes me as a "high metabolism" sort so, based on what's happening to me, it got me to thinking. I'm testing NEGATIVE for fucking drugs I take EVERY DAY. It's astonishing. Prince would have metabolized similarly I'm inclined to think so don't take the drug test at face value.

I have NO REASON to lie to this thread. None at all. I TAKE the fucking medicine, often against my better judgement based on what I know about it and my propensity towards addiction, but I also enjoy being able to walk so I take them. Every day. As prescribed. I pee in thier cups and and they detect NO opioid usage. According to them, I'm not taking ENOUGH schedule 2 narcotics, and from what they think am not taking any at all.

Somebody explain that.

I worry about people on parole and shit like that if these stupid (cheap) tests are this unreliable, how it might effect thier lives and find myself in the odd position (for once) of actually trying to prove that I AM indeed taking very hard drugs.

herb4 said:

I have something for the "no drugs found in his system" and conspiracy minded types.

I'm between jobs, on pain medicine (hydrocodone) and self paying for doctor's visits since it's still cheaper than COBRA. When you self pay for these medicines, you HAVE to take a drug screen. Ok. No problem right?

Here's the thing. 2 out of the 3 urine screens I've taken have me testing NEGATIVE for opiods. I take 10-20 mg a day depending on my pain level. These doctors tell me I have ZERO in my system. NONE. 2 days ago, at the time of my last test, I had ALREADY TAKEN 15 mg by 1pm appointment. They're going to cut me off if I test "negative" again next month, at which point I'll be lucky if I can can drag my ass out of bed, let alone work.

I have a hyper crazy metabolism and always have. Cursory research into the matter suggests that people with high metaboloic rates can often produce "false negatives". I think they think I'm selling them and not taking them. Fucked up thing is, I had 20 or so pills left and brought them with ne. Showed them to the doc. I asked them, "now, if I were selling them, don't you think I'd be smart enough to eat 2 of these before my test?"

My point is, depending on a person's metabolism (and often even even their GENES), they can eat these things and still not test positive - even with a blood test I'm learning. Prince strikes me as a "high metabolism" sort so, based on what's happening to me, it got me to thinking. I'm testing NEGATIVE for fucking drugs I take EVERY DAY. It's astonishing. Prince would have metabolized similarly I'm inclined to think so don't take the drug test at face value.

I have NO REASON to lie to this thread. None at all. I TAKE the fucking medicine, often against my better judgement based on what I know about it and my propensity towards addiction, but I also enjoy being able to walk so I take them. Every day. As prescribed. I pee in thier cups and and they detect NO opioid usage. According to them, I'm not taking ENOUGH schedule 2 narcotics, and from what they think am not taking any at all.

Somebody explain that.

I worry about people on parole and shit like that if these stupid (cheap) tests are this unreliable, how it might effect thier lives and find myself in the odd position (for once) of actually trying to prove that I AM indeed taking very hard drugs.

Hi Herb4....glad to see you here but distressed about your pain...sending healing vibes...please feel better.

renfield said:

It's consistent with how he lived. He sat cheerily with Oprah saying everything with his child was "all good" when he and Mayte had gone through the unimaginable pain of their child's death just weeks before. I understand wanting privacy but pretending like nothing is wrong isn't healthy. Cancel the interview and release a simple "please respect our privacy during this difficult time" statement. I don't think Prince liked acknowledging that anything was beyond his control, and sadly here we are.

You said this very well. He definitely had a hard time appearing vulnerable to the public. No one can deny that he had serious trust/abandonment/attachment issues that started during childhood. I wonder if these trust/abandonment/attachment issues made him fear that if he appeared vulnerable, his fans would stop loving him.

I am afraid this is true (except for renfield description of P as "cheerily"...he seemed quite fragile at times during that interview..in my opinon). . I think many fans would have loved him more if he talked about his vulnerability a bit more.. But I do think some of the more cynical fans would have thought he was up to something or being a pussy or something--either way, he would have been better off personally if he had faced his vulnerability more openly.

206Michelle said:

renfield said:

It's consistent with how he lived. He sat cheerily with Oprah saying everything with his child was "all good" when he and Mayte had gone through the unimaginable pain of their child's death just weeks before. I understand wanting privacy but pretending like nothing is wrong isn't healthy. Cancel the interview and release a simple "please respect our privacy during this difficult time" statement. I don't think Prince liked acknowledging that anything was beyond his control, and sadly here we are.

You said this very well. He definitely had a hard time appearing vulnerable to the public. No one can deny that he had serious trust/abandonment/attachment issues that started during childhood. I wonder if these trust/abandonment/attachment issues made him fear that if he appeared vulnerable, his fans would stop loving him.

[Edited 11/18/17 14:19pm]

[Edited 11/18/17 14:24pm]

herb4 said:

laurarichardson said:

renfield said:

It's consistent with how he lived. He sat cheerily with Oprah saying everything with his child was "all good" when he and Mayte had gone through the unimaginable pain of their child's death just weeks before. I understand wanting privacy but pretending like nothing is wrong isn't healthy. Cancel the interview and release a simple "please respect our privacy during this difficult time" statement. I don't think Prince liked acknowledging that anything was beyond his control, and sadly here we are.

—Telling the entire free world your personal business is not healthy either. What in the world would getting on T.V. done to bring back that child or sooth the pain? He was on that program to promote his album not use his child’s death for PR. I still cannot believe anyone thinks publicizing his child death would have been a good move? It would have been tacky and crass.

Prince had difficulty with showing vulnerability, for sure. Regarding the death of his son, was in a difficult situation because he needed publicity in order to promote Emancipation while also needing privacy to deal with the loss of his son. Losing a child is the worst thing that can happen to someone. While I think he handled the situation poorly, I am not going to be too hard on . I think that he didn't know how to handle the death of his son, which is totally understandable. It is very sad that he didn't ask for help so that he and Mayte could better deal with their son's death.

.

The way in which he handled his son's death was counterproductive to his privacy. By denying what happened, he invited more inquiries. That's the way the world is, like it or not. When a celebrity says, "My child died. Please respect my family's privacy," the media and general public are typically very respectful. By acknowledging the loss, the celebrity controls the narrative, not the press. Prince had been in the spotlight long enough to know that even if it wasn't the business of the press or the public to know about his personal life, members of the press have a first-amendment right to ask about his personal life.

.

Instead of controlling the narrative by admitting that his son died, Prince came up with this fantasy charade of pretending that everything was fine, even when it wasn't. By refusing to admit that his son had died, members of the press (e.g., Bryant Gumbel, Oprah, and Spike Lee) continued to ask about the situation. The public eventually found out that their son died because the Minneapolis Star-Tribune requested the release of the child's birth and death certificates, and the Mojica sisters gave details to the British tabloid The News of The World. If had just admitted that Amiir had died, Oprah could have just said "My condolences on the loss of your son" and then spent the rest of the show focusing on Emancipation. Instead, he compelled Mayte to come on Oprah while she was in the depths of despair and he showed off the playroom at Paisley Park in order to present this fantasy charade that everything was fine, when things were actually in the pits. After the Moline incident, he played that same fantasy charade of "everything is fine" and told people to save their prayers, even though he was very ill.

.

In both situations, he was living a lie, and it wasn't healthy. This fantasy charade wasn't healthy because he was living in a fantasy world of denial instead of seeking help. This fantasy charade about their son's death wasn't healthy because Mayte felt so alone and full of despair that she tried to commit suicide. Losing a child is such a horrible situation that humans lack the ability to cope with this situation alone. People can be resilient after the death of a child, but they need a lot of support.

.

There is a recent example of a celebrity and his wife who lost a child and is dealing with it very differently than . This recent example occurred this past Sunday when Marquise Goodwin, a wide receiver for the San Francisco 49ers and USA track and field Olympian at the 2012 London Olympics, and his wife Morgan, lost their son due to pre-term labor. My condolences and prayers go out to them. Mr. and Mrs. Goodwin reported that their son died via their Instagram accounts. When I looked at various articles coming from media outlets, all of the articles were more or less the same because all of the articles used Mr. and Mrs. Goodwin's Instagram accounts as the sources. There were no false rumors or speculation about what occurred. In addition, the Goodwins have received an outpouring of support and prayers from the press and the general public.

.

For 2 days, all the information they shared was via Instagram, but starting on 11/14, the Goodwins have started to share more with various media outlets, and this disclosure has occurred in a very tasteful and respectful manner. They are dealing with the unspeakably horrible loss of their child, a situation that was beyond their control, but they are controlling the narrative. They have lost nothing by sharing their struggle. Instead, they have gained a great deal of support by sharing. They also had a miscarriage back in 2013, per People Magazine online (Source: http://people.com/sports/...orn-son/). I have followed Marquise on Instagram for a couple of years. I've respected him for the way that he professes his love for his wife as well as his advocacy for people with disabilities, which results from him having a sister who has severe cerebral palsy. I have so much admiration for the way in which he and Morgan have handled this situation, and supported each other. Their love for one another and resilience is inspiring.

.......

Marquise Goodwin hopes heartbreaking story of losing son helps others

Janie McCauley

Associated Press

November 18, 2017

Source: http://www.statesman.com/...iMvwIiGbL/

It is possible for people to handle the loss of a child in a more productive and healthier manner than how handled the loss of his son. Unfortunately, creating a fantasy charade in that situation and doing the same at the end of his life, when he was dealing with a chronic illness and/or painkiller dependency, is a major reason why Prince is no longer with us. I love him and his music dearly though.

paulludvig said:

Swensson is just another person with another theory.

Hypothesis, not theory

.

Hypothesis: a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences

.

Theory: a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena

That's not true. The Star Tribune gained access to their son's birth and death certificates.

.

Prince surrounded in mystery

Tom Sinclair and Dana Kennedy

Source: http://ew.com/article/199...d-mystery/

.

2007: Death of baby born to Prince's wife under review

Source: http://www.startribune.co.../11466661/

.

laurarichardson said:

"He was promoting the album, but what P understood is that keeping completely quiet about a dead baby would just make people suspect even more, especially when a once pregnant wife is never seen with a baby. So, he threw the media a small bone (the nursery, the vague notion that he and his wife were recovering and going forward but he did so without going into detail). It all seemed like P's way of getting in control of things. Unfortunately, where I suspect a sense of denial is his notion that they could recover through moving forward and never saying the child died. (LIke he said in the song Comeback..."never say the words, theyre gone and they'll comeback."

Wrong. Tacky and crass to be on that show promoting an album and talking about a dead child. How do these two topics go together? " My child died but nevermind all let's talk about this album I have to sell.

I also doubt we were ever going to see any child of Prince's on T.V ever.

I do not think he was in deinal I simply think he thought it was no one's business and he was correct.

If the nannies had not talked to the tabloid media we would have never known anything at all.

purplerabbithole said:

Thank you. Obviously it was out there or Oprah wouldn't have addressed the issue. I am not just pulling my opinions out of thin air. I also want to add that people acting like P just pretended that the baby was alive is bullshit. He never said that. I have seen the interview more than a few times. He never once denied that the baby perished. He just used vague optimism and spirituality to mask the severity of the loss. His face/eyes tell a different story.

He was promoting the album, but what P understood is that keeping completely quiet about a dead baby would just make people suspect even more, especially when a once pregnant wife is never seen with a baby. So, he threw the media a small bone (the nursery, the vague notion that he and his wife were recovering and going forward but he did so without going into detail). It all seemed like P's way of getting in control of things. Unfortunately, where I suspect a sense of denial is his notion that they could recover through moving forward and never saying the child died. (LIke he said in the song Comeback..."never say the words, theyre gone and they'll comeback."

As for the best way to recover from that loss, I certainly don't think tell-all books are theraputic or cathartic. Diary entries, therapy, long talks with family members, a psycharist--those folks would be much more helpful to recovery. Writing a book or pouring your heart out to Oprah would be just be good for attention and as a way to obtain sympathy from strangers. Fan love is great but it doesn't substitute for one-on-one interaction. Sadly, I am not sure P even got the latter.

BartVanHemelen said:

purplerabbithole said:

I choose to sympathize with both — a messed up mourning man trying to maintain privacy

.

He announced the conception of the baby in a press release, used his heartbeat in a song and an ultrasound was used in the artwork.

.

What "privacy"?

Good point, Bart.

TweetyV6 said:

Andrea Swensson said:

Prince’s death was the result of being in “a lot of pain and [being] scared to tell anyone.”

Prince's Death

Direct cause: Painkiller Overdose
Root cause: His acrobatics on high heels when entertaining us during his carreer.
Contributing cause: JW Doctrine. It prevented him from having decent surgery to get rid of the pain.

But Cat Glover said recently in an interview that he broke his hip during the late 80s. Source: http://prince.org/msg/5/448730

laurarichardson said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Yeah right, because Prince would be the first to admit that he was a controlling asshole sometimes! It's funny that you always say "mayte is a lair, "Swensson sounds crazy." You only believe people you personaly chose to like!

Wrap your head around the fact that Prince didn't give a fuck about what Mayte wanted on that day, "I need you to do this Interview" Fuck it! It was his Album! If he wanted to promote it, he should've done it by himself! He forced her to do it because if she wouldn't have done it, there would've been more rumors. I was not the one who said he should've stopped the Album! I was talking about the Interview. You always try to justify his actions no matter how disgusting and egocentric they may have been, you are the epidome of fanatic.

And I think Mayte is way more mature than you, because she doesn't have to insult people she doesn't even know on a forum like that.

What about the Time? Morris wanted to go to Europe and Japane, but he couldn't because Prince was a controll freak and stopped them! Was he immature as well? Why didn't he just go with his band? Prince was in controll of every-fucking-thing! EITHER HIS WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!

You know what? Mayte had the chance to get as much money as Mani did, but she refused, what does that tell you? If I was her, I would've took everything I could've, just to fuck him back for that Interview.

Yeah right, because Prince would be the first to admit that he was a controlling asshole sometimes! It's funny that you always say "mayte is a lair, "Swensson sounds crazy." You only believe people you personaly chose to like!

I believe what I know to be factual. Swensson has no idea about what Prince's thoughts were about pain or any access to his medical records or how his telling the world would have changed anything. These are facts she is just a person with an opinion some of which came from something she read on the internet.

Wrap your head around the fact that Prince didn't give a fuck about what Mayte wanted on that day, "I need you to do this Interview" Fuck it! It was his Album! If he wanted to promote it, he should've done it by himself! He forced her to do it because if she wouldn't have done it, there would've been more rumors. I was not the one who said he should've stopped the Album! I was talking about the Interview. You always try to justify his actions no matter how disgusting and egocentric they may have been, you are the epidome of fanatic.

--- Unless you were in Prince and Mayte house you have no fucking idea about what you are talking about and no way to prove anything that you say. We just do not know because Prince did not go around telling all of his business and Mayte waited until he was dead to run her mouth.

These are facts.

And I think Mayte is way more mature than you, because she doesn't have to insult people she doesn't even know on a forum like that.

She is not mature. She was drunk on YOUTUBE with her daugther getting a tattoo and I have only stated facts and I have not insulted you I insulted Swensson for her statements which are moronic. I disagree with you and that should not be seen as an insult if you are a mature person.

What about the Time? Morris wanted to go to Europe and Japane, but he couldn't because Prince was a controll freak and stopped them! Was he immature as well? Why didn't he just go with his band? Prince was in controll of every-fucking-thing! EITHER HIS WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!

I do not know anything about Morris wanting to go to Europe in the past. I know Prince is not around anymore and he is still on the casino circuit. I do not know that if the songs arre written by Prince , Prince played the bulk of the intstrutments, and owns the name of the group you do kind of have to do what he wants. He was the boss. Do you tell your boss what to do?

You know what? Mayte had the chance to get as much money as Mani did, but she refused, what does that tell you? If I was her, I would've took everything I could've, just to fuck him back for that Interview.

It tells me she was a fool because she was the one complaining about money later on and has no one to blame but herself for not going after more money. See a mature person would have figured that out 20 years ago and stop crying over a man who does not care for you anymore.

So you think she should've taken more from Prince to get back at him, yet you criticize her for "making money off of his death" by writing a book.

Purplerabbithole, I love what you wrote. You expressed your thoughts very well, and I agree with almost everything.

purplerabbithole said:

Last night, I wrote a long thought-out summary of my sympathy for both Mayte and Prince and I continue to feel that way. I see this event a bit different because of what I explained yesterday. I do want to disagree with a false equivalency...equating a battered woman's inability to leave a violent husband with P's psychological hold on Mayte. I dont see the parallel frankly. Battered women face stalking and a very real physical threat. Mayte faced being ostracized and cut out of a rock star's life. He wouldn't have stalked her. He would have left her. IT would suck and hurt her feelings but there is no parallel IMO... He left her years ago and yet she says recently that had they not lost their child they would still be together. She calls him the love of her life. Its not his fault he still has a hold on her. He left her and died---this is and was out of his hands.

Just to avoid people thinking I never see P's flaws... Here's my issues with Prince.

...when he threw nasty shade during performances at his sound techs...(I get how bad sound can ruin a performance but a nasty tirade is even worse)

---when he wouldn't go with Mayte to get her life saving surgery for the miscarriage because of his religious zealousness..

---taking his music off the internet and suiing fans and being bitchy about the TIme name.. because he was a paranoid ideologue. (I am not as mad as others because I think his paranoia was sad...but its a bit maddening.)

--when he tainted the legitimacy of his music by not being more clear about credits and contributions of others (now anyone can claim they were not credited if they want...dumb ass.)

---I am disappointed he was stupid enough to break another guitarist guitar on live tv (even if he did apologize immediately and pay to fix the guitar.)

---cheating...(but I am less angry than some about this because I believe his girlfriends knew right away the score and I dislike the phoniness about this whole thing coming from many of them.).

---sexism in the Rainbow CHildren (by all means, Prince, believe whatyou need to believe to get through a tragedy but leave the sexism out...especially since he had a side of him completely not sexist)

---expecting his employees to work as hard as his crazy ass did...(he seemed to get a bit better in 2000's and working hard has its benefits, but in the 90's, it seemed a funless place.) I do get annoyed however when people complain about 3 am phone calls. you work for a vampire, expect inconvenient hours...I say.

NOw I think we should get back to sympathizing with an overworked, sensitive, shy, tragic man who worked himself to death, suffered and did his best to find redemption later in his life? NOw can we remember the funny, warm, romantic, creative, quietly and unexpectedly generous, polite man of musical integrety who liked children ( despite what the Cat Glover baby-Daddy thread is implying? )

Oh and by the way, Mayte is holding back tears and stuggling during the interview during the part about their kid (I am not blind) , but she does relatively well the rest of the interview. As for P, I wonder if people are even looking at his eyes while he is being asked by Oprah about their family...I imagine most people's eyes now go to her during this moment (understandably) . But, look at him too.. He looks tired and vulnerable...(other than moments during the Gumbel interview and the Steve Wonder tribute, its the most vulnerable I have ever seen him while not performing.) I see it differently partly for that reason. I see him as being not strong enough to really deal with it these emotions so turning to work, public vagueness, spirituality, denial and fantasy to deal with and unfortunately thinking that this approach would somehow help his wife. None of this is rational thinking IMO. It is indeed "fucked up" but he has my sympathy and ultimately Mayte recovered much better than he did from this tragedy.

.

ThatWhiteDude said:

I said I guess, followed by who knows. Not that I know for sure. But he should've known it better. It's really fucked that you can't even critize one thing about Prince, people are fast to say you demonize Prince and don't belong here.

I didn't say his state of mind wasn't the same, but it was about him forcing Mayte to do the interview with him.

[Edited 11/15/17 15:54pm]

[Edited 11/15/17 16:02pm]

[Edited 11/15/17 16:10pm]

GustavoRibas said:

Prince spent his career building that ´larger than life´ persona (even George Michael, a pop star himself, said he couldnt imagine Prince cleaning his house).

So, he couldnt show any weakness. Unfortunately it cost his life. Other pop stars took a time to be treated and survived.

CharismaDove said:

How about all you pundits and armchair psychologists stop obsessing over something that happened 20 years ago and realize the death of his kid (and whichever way he handled it) would have no standing on how he died from unrelated causes 20 fucking years later. I swear people reach so hard on this website. And yeah we get it, it was wrong for him to make Mayte appear on Oprah, but give him the same sympathy you're giving her, he was a pop star with a career to continue. Imagine how hard it is to keep going with the happiest album of your life after your cause of happiness dies. Give him some cred. It's disgusting how some are going after Amiir's mother and others going after his father. It was a horrible situation, why the fuck are people looking for someone to blame?

to the sentence I underlined and bolded.

206Michelle said:

Prince had difficulty with showing vulnerability, for sure. Regarding the death of his son, was in a difficult situation because he needed publicity in order to promote Emancipation while also needing privacy to deal with the loss of his son. Losing a child is the worst thing that can happen to someone. While I think he handled the situation poorly, I am not going to be too hard on . I think that he didn't know how to handle the death of his son, which is totally understandable. It is very sad that he didn't ask for help so that he and Mayte could better deal with their son's death.

.

The way in which he handled his son's death was counterproductive to his privacy. By denying what happened, he invited more inquiries. That's the way the world is, like it or not. When a celebrity says, "My child died. Please respect my family's privacy," the media and general public are typically very respectful. By acknowledging the loss, the celebrity controls the narrative, not the press. Prince had been in the spotlight long enough to know that even if it wasn't the business of the press or the public to know about his personal life, members of the press have a first-amendment right to ask about his personal life.

.

Instead of controlling the narrative by admitting that his son died, Prince came up with this fantasy charade of pretending that everything was fine, even when it wasn't. By refusing to admit that his son had died, members of the press (e.g., Bryant Gumbel, Oprah, and Spike Lee) continued to ask about the situation. The public eventually found out that their son died because the Minneapolis Star-Tribune requested the release of the child's birth and death certificates, and the Mojica sisters gave details to the British tabloid The News of The World. If had just admitted that Amiir had died, Oprah could have just said "My condolences on the loss of your son" and then spent the rest of the show focusing on Emancipation. Instead, he compelled Mayte to come on Oprah while she was in the depths of despair and he showed off the playroom at Paisley Park in order to present this fantasy charade that everything was fine, when things were actually in the pits. After the Moline incident, he played that same fantasy charade of "everything is fine" and told people to save their prayers, even though he was very ill.

.

In both situations, he was living a lie, and it wasn't healthy. This fantasy charade wasn't healthy because he was living in a fantasy world of denial instead of seeking help. This fantasy charade about their son's death wasn't healthy because Mayte felt so alone and full of despair that she tried to commit suicide. Losing a child is such a horrible situation that humans lack the ability to cope with this situation alone. People can be resilient after the death of a child, but they need a lot of support.

.

There is a recent example of a celebrity and his wife who lost a child and is dealing with it very differently than . This recent example occurred this past Sunday when Marquise Goodwin, a wide receiver for the San Francisco 49ers and USA track and field Olympian at the 2012 London Olympics, and his wife Morgan, lost their son due to pre-term labor. My condolences and prayers go out to them. Mr. and Mrs. Goodwin reported that their son died via their Instagram accounts. When I looked at various articles coming from media outlets, all of the articles were more or less the same because all of the articles used Mr. and Mrs. Goodwin's Instagram accounts as the sources. There were no false rumors or speculation about what occurred. In addition, the Goodwins have received an outpouring of support and prayers from the press and the general public.

.

For 2 days, all the information they shared was via Instagram, but starting on 11/14, the Goodwins have started to share more with various media outlets, and this disclosure has occurred in a very tasteful and respectful manner. They are dealing with the unspeakably horrible loss of their child, a situation that was beyond their control, but they are controlling the narrative. They have lost nothing by sharing their struggle. Instead, they have gained a great deal of support by sharing. They also had a miscarriage back in 2013, per People Magazine online (Source: http://people.com/sports/...orn-son/). I have followed Marquise on Instagram for a couple of years. I've respected him for the way that he professes his love for his wife as well as his advocacy for people with disabilities, which results from him having a sister who has severe cerebral palsy. I have so much admiration for the way in which he and Morgan have handled this situation, and supported each other. Their love for one another and resilience is inspiring.

.......

Marquise Goodwin hopes heartbreaking story of losing son helps others

Janie McCauley

Associated Press

November 18, 2017

Source: http://www.statesman.com/...iMvwIiGbL/

Goodwin decided that being forthcoming about what happened was the best option.

.

“It would have made it (out publicly) anyway, so why not put it out there so I could kind of narrate my own story instead of letting somebody else do it or people have these assumptions,” Goodwin said. “Because my wife and I had posted that we were pregnant weeks ago, or months ago, and had we abruptly stopped and they noticed that she wasn’t pregnant anymore, it would have raised a lot of eyebrows and questions.”

.

Overwhelmed with emotion, Goodwin went straight from the hospital to the team hotel to check in before the game and ride the bus to the stadium. He hadn’t showered and was still wearing sweats, and he shared with only a handful of teammates what he and his wife were enduring.

.

Later that night, he announced the loss of his baby.

.

Now, Goodwin hopes he and Morgan — and their baby — can uplift others who might be going through the same thing.

.

“It’s been a tremendous amount of support, people of all different communities. Morgan and I appreciate all the love,” Goodwin said. “I didn’t realize sharing our journey with this baby would gain so many people.

.

“We’ve met a lot of people that are following us through our journeys so we can maybe help people who have dealt with similar things that we have gone through or learn things from people who have been through our situation.”

.......

It is possible for people to handle the loss of a child in a more productive and healthier manner than how handled the loss of his son. Unfortunately, creating a fantasy charade in that situation and doing the same at the end of his life, when he was dealing with a chronic illness and/or painkiller dependency, is a major reason why Prince is no longer with us. I love him and his music dearly though.

Very moving. Thank you Michelle!

Bodhitheblackdog said:

FunkyBrotha said:

It's a good analysis of what happened and quite a simple root cause. I think this is a deep rooted problem in america that really strikes at the heart of how Americans feel and act at home and across the world. They have always had this fear of being perceived as weak, past it and vulnerable. Americans tend to 'put a face on' in dark times. There is nothing particularly wrong with that behaviour and in some respects its a mark of how America itself became a successful nation. But at human and personal level it seems to be causing individuals harm. That's the way I see it. In the UK if someone has something wrong with them EVERYBODY knows about it

Thanks for your interesting and thought provoking comment. More than a few people have opined here that the death of Amiir was a seminar turning point in Prince's life...associates have described it as downhill from there, going off the rails etc. Why can't some concede that it was so painful to him that it may have been just too hard to come back to a place of emotional equilibrium without self-medicating with whatever...?

Good point, Bod. I don't think he was using painkillers for the past 20 years to deal with the death of his son. I think the dependence on painkillers was relatively recent (2 to 3 years). Music was his drug of choice. He continued to be very productive after his son's death, after his divorces, and after the deaths of his parents, so he showed resilience. However, he never dealt with his trust/abandonment/attachment issues well enough to sustain a long-term romantic relationship or marriage. I wonder if toward the end of his life, as he was growing older and dealing with some health problems, it finally became clear to him how much he wished that he had his own family. If he had his own children, I can't see him telling Tyka, "I've done everything that I came here to do."

.

I think that Amiir brought out the best in . This man made music in one way or another for every day of his entire adult life except for the 6 days when his son was alive. When Amiir was alive, was there for his birth and for every surgery. Mayte describes him as acting out of complete selflessness and unconditional love for their son. I've heard Kim Berry speak about how he loved to invite the children of his employees to Paisley Park (I think in this interview here: https://youtu.be/g_yRodhAg3M). And he had photos of Kirk's children near his desk when he died. I hope he came to terms with not having his own family, but it wouldn't surprise me if he was sad about not having any living children.

MMJas said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Naaa, he had no mate, no children, no close family, his spritual beliefs were all over the place, he was having a tough time getting older, he had hip pain and BTW, his storied vault was moldy and mldewed and rotting away just hundreds of feet away from where he slept. What was there to be depressed about?

I do believe Prince suffered from bouts of depression throughout his life. Many actions and traits in his personality allude to that.

Yes, it is a possibility that he experienced depression at some point.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Morgaine said:

Bodhitheblackdog said: He had everything most people are raised to want and seek - genius, fame, talent, drive, good looks, sense of humor, gorgeous mates and others throwing themselves at him. But he had no living children, no spouse/mate, all alone in an elevator of a fentanyl OD. One could surmise this says quite a bit about society, let alone the man.

Yes, a while back I described this saga as Greek Tragedy/Chanhassan-style...

Greek-tragedy, Chanhassen-style is totally on point. Unfortunately, that is how Prince's life ended.

A couple things...didn't Mayte entail P possibly being on pills after the child's death (her flushing pills down the toilet for him.) He was a mess obviously.

I agree with most of what you said *except he does not deny that something went wrong with the kid when Gumbel asks...so I am not sure he was saying literally that everything was fine.

I must repost my earlier post to make my point... P, in my opinion, was not just pretending in an attempt to promote an album whilst maintaining privacy. I think it went beyond that into a spiritual belief that bordered on fantasy and was the result of an untreated emotional breakdown due to professional stress and personal loss. HE could have very easily waited to promote the album and then released the album as a testament to his lost son and it probably would have earned even more money in the long run..(after all, Prince losing a child would have earned him the kind of sympathy that actually sells albums.) Cryptic weird spirituality wasn't really a great promotion tactic. Yes, I agree with whomever said that P was throwing himself into his work to deal with the pain.. (music and work were both his outlet and his reprieve from pain.) but many folks, if they felt they couldn't postpone promotion of said album, would have gone on Oprah and talked about the loss of their child briefly,and then stated that they were continuing to promote the album as a tribute to their deceased son (obviously someone can not hide a deceased child if they publicized his conception in the first place.) I imagine this tactic would have been much more effective.. But instead he does something that made so little sense to anyone around him who doesn't prescribe to his spiritual beliefs that I almost dislike OPrah and Gumbel for even going through with interviewing him. (also, he could have just promoted the album's songs that had nothing to do with son, stated that his family was a private matter, and not involved his wife, or the heartbeat or the nursery...)... His was such a weird and convoluted tactic that it should have been a redflag that something was wrong with him.

HEre is what I said...

Here is how i see it.. Many men (if not most) have a tendency to try to solve problems rather than just directly deal with how they feel. From my understanding, Mayte had been laying in bed hugging the urn for so many days she lost count. If I recall, he at one point snuck into the bed and laid next to her and quietly left. He also (I believe) stated that he couldn't stay in the house anymore. Meanwhile, the album that was a love note to his wife and (at the time) living child is being promoted and there are rumors swirling. I imagine that P thought that he was going to have to solve three problems at the same time--how to help his wife and himself cope, how to promote an independently-produced album that is a painful reminder of better days (that people counted on him to promote) and how to maintain his privacy. Having no idea how to help a wife who is inconsolable, he conjured up a fantasy or belief system for himself that if you never say the words that the boy died than his soul will return (I believe Mayte alluded to a belief of P's that the soul of this child would just slip on to next one.) Maybe he went and wrote Comeback at that point (only to record a few years later) . So, then he tries a bit tough love...forces his wife to get out of bed to do the oprah interview and a few more (Gumbel) and says to her "I need you to do this for me". He tells the world (with his wife like they are an united front) that their family is "fine" so people won't dig into the painful reality and justifies to himself going on Muppets as a way to honor the fallen child and embrace future fatherhood. He tells the world that their family is fine to convince himself that it will be and to continue the dream started when he first starting writing the songs for Emancipation. When this fantasy is challenged later, he embraced a religion that shares some similar ideas...(JW's second resurrection belief)

HEre is the the problem with this kind of coping mechanism---its based on fantasy. Kind of like the infertile married couple in Who's Afraid of Virgina Woolf when they conjure up a child that never existed to keep their marriage together. Prince tried to force his coping mechanism on her and Mayte being in love with the man somewhat resentfully went along with it. She just wanted to feel what she felt and express what she felt for real (and probably wasn't ready to go out publically) Was P cruel? In a way, yes. But he could have been thinking that he had to be cruel to be kind and was starting to get a bit panicky about career and wife's emotional issues. I wonder sometimes if Mayte and others would be less upset with P if he had pushed her to do the interview but encouraged her to be open about what happened. ? The reality is that Mayte has discussed this loss in the public realm herself and with vivid detail (as soon as she was legally able.) . Obviously, she and P coped differently. But I have to say, at least, he didn't force her to speak on the matter. If I recall, when the subject of the child is brought up in both interviews (Gumbel and Oprah), P does the talking. I know he was the dominant one in many ways (not alwasys a good thing obviously) but it was his fantasy he was portraying

I remember reading somewhere P's favorite line from the BIble (according to LG) and it had to do with the resurrection of people healthy and whole into internal life ...No wonder he gravitated toward that belief.

Reminder of the lyrics to Comeback (a song that he very very obscurely released...(4th album on Crystal Ball only available online). Its just cryptic enough to be hidden from those who don't know better.

Come Back lyrics--imply a man who can't even say the words he's gone privately, much less publically. His wife was the opposite.

What does Tears go Here mean...I used to wonder. Now, I think i know...Tear go into his work and into his poetic, cryptic artistry. He didn't write that song for us (not really). He wrote it for himself. Susan Rogers talked about how PRince created an image in his music that was intended for the audience. If she looked a bit more into his later work,she might find that P is trying to peak out from inside the lyrics of some of his later music.

PennyPurple said:

206Michelle said:

Prince had difficulty with showing vulnerability, for sure. Regarding the death of his son, was in a difficult situation because he needed publicity in order to promote Emancipation while also needing privacy to deal with the loss of his son. Losing a child is the worst thing that can happen to someone. While I think he handled the situation poorly, I am not going to be too hard on . I think that he didn't know how to handle the death of his son, which is totally understandable. It is very sad that he didn't ask for help so that he and Mayte could better deal with their son's death.

.

The way in which he handled his son's death was counterproductive to his privacy. By denying what happened, he invited more inquiries. That's the way the world is, like it or not. When a celebrity says, "My child died. Please respect my family's privacy," the media and general public are typically very respectful. By acknowledging the loss, the celebrity controls the narrative, not the press. Prince had been in the spotlight long enough to know that even if it wasn't the business of the press or the public to know about his personal life, members of the press have a first-amendment right to ask about his personal life.

.

Instead of controlling the narrative by admitting that his son died, Prince came up with this fantasy charade of pretending that everything was fine, even when it wasn't. By refusing to admit that his son had died, members of the press (e.g., Bryant Gumbel, Oprah, and Spike Lee) continued to ask about the situation. The public eventually found out that their son died because the Minneapolis Star-Tribune requested the release of the child's birth and death certificates, and the Mojica sisters gave details to the British tabloid The News of The World. If had just admitted that Amiir had died, Oprah could have just said "My condolences on the loss of your son" and then spent the rest of the show focusing on Emancipation. Instead, he compelled Mayte to come on Oprah while she was in the depths of despair and he showed off the playroom at Paisley Park in order to present this fantasy charade that everything was fine, when things were actually in the pits. After the Moline incident, he played that same fantasy charade of "everything is fine" and told people to save their prayers, even though he was very ill.

.

In both situations, he was living a lie, and it wasn't healthy. This fantasy charade wasn't healthy because he was living in a fantasy world of denial instead of seeking help. This fantasy charade about their son's death wasn't healthy because Mayte felt so alone and full of despair that she tried to commit suicide. Losing a child is such a horrible situation that humans lack the ability to cope with this situation alone. People can be resilient after the death of a child, but they need a lot of support.

.

There is a recent example of a celebrity and his wife who lost a child and is dealing with it very differently than . This recent example occurred this past Sunday when Marquise Goodwin, a wide receiver for the San Francisco 49ers and USA track and field Olympian at the 2012 London Olympics, and his wife Morgan, lost their son due to pre-term labor. My condolences and prayers go out to them. Mr. and Mrs. Goodwin reported that their son died via their Instagram accounts. When I looked at various articles coming from media outlets, all of the articles were more or less the same because all of the articles used Mr. and Mrs. Goodwin's Instagram accounts as the sources. There were no false rumors or speculation about what occurred. In addition, the Goodwins have received an outpouring of support and prayers from the press and the general public.

.

For 2 days, all the information they shared was via Instagram, but starting on 11/14, the Goodwins have started to share more with various media outlets, and this disclosure has occurred in a very tasteful and respectful manner. They are dealing with the unspeakably horrible loss of their child, a situation that was beyond their control, but they are controlling the narrative. They have lost nothing by sharing their struggle. Instead, they have gained a great deal of support by sharing. They also had a miscarriage back in 2013, per People Magazine online (Source: http://people.com/sports/...orn-son/). I have followed Marquise on Instagram for a couple of years. I've respected him for the way that he professes his love for his wife as well as his advocacy for people with disabilities, which results from him having a sister who has severe cerebral palsy. I have so much admiration for the way in which he and Morgan have handled this situation, and supported each other. Their love for one another and resilience is inspiring.

.......

Marquise Goodwin hopes heartbreaking story of losing son helps others

Janie McCauley

Associated Press

November 18, 2017

Source: http://www.statesman.com/...iMvwIiGbL/

Goodwin decided that being forthcoming about what happened was the best option.

.

“It would have made it (out publicly) anyway, so why not put it out there so I could kind of narrate my own story instead of letting somebody else do it or people have these assumptions,” Goodwin said. “Because my wife and I had posted that we were pregnant weeks ago, or months ago, and had we abruptly stopped and they noticed that she wasn’t pregnant anymore, it would have raised a lot of eyebrows and questions.”

.

Overwhelmed with emotion, Goodwin went straight from the hospital to the team hotel to check in before the game and ride the bus to the stadium. He hadn’t showered and was still wearing sweats, and he shared with only a handful of teammates what he and his wife were enduring.

.

Later that night, he announced the loss of his baby.

.

Now, Goodwin hopes he and Morgan — and their baby — can uplift others who might be going through the same thing.

.

“It’s been a tremendous amount of support, people of all different communities. Morgan and I appreciate all the love,” Goodwin said. “I didn’t realize sharing our journey with this baby would gain so many people.

.

“We’ve met a lot of people that are following us through our journeys so we can maybe help people who have dealt with similar things that we have gone through or learn things from people who have been through our situation.”

.......

It is possible for people to handle the loss of a child in a more productive and healthier manner than how handled the loss of his son. Unfortunately, creating a fantasy charade in that situation and doing the same at the end of his life, when he was dealing with a chronic illness and/or painkiller dependency, is a major reason why Prince is no longer with us. I love him and his music dearly though.

Very moving. Thank you Michelle!

[Edited 11/18/17 20:10pm]

purplefam99 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Thanks udo: it takes a lot of courage and dignity to tell the simple truth on the Org.

Udo I am interested if you care to speak more about the last few decades and his choices.

.

Well, he chose a cheaper sort of contract, away from the big labels. Thus making longterm availability of them records questionable.

In touring the setup changed from a big caravan of trucks carrying everything to locally provided services beging used more and more, leading to varying production quality.

Security at these events became weaker and weaker. (personal experience)

Financial news showed he did not pay certain bills on time.

Other news and subsequent showed he was unable to even negotiate an effective deal with WB for remasters.

His setlist choices generated a setlist that has on average 90+% songs of 25-30 years while not playing many of the songs of the decade before the show date.

(I do understand the catalogue buildup but the accents are way off)

Etc, etc.

Not all of these are fatal or something but they do show a fairly clear trend.

herb4 said:

precioux said:

206Michelle said:

precioux said:

Hey herb4! The thing is...if you do a bit of research, on a "regular" run of the mill medical opioids test, fentanyl is a "different animal". It is not hydroodone, oxycodone or morphine-therefore it doesn't show up on an opiod test. Furthermore, it has such a short half life that it won't show up anyway. I've explained this to others on a different thread but it falls on deaf ears. This is more than likely the reason "fentanyl was not found tests prior to his death". It has to be SPECIFICALLY ran for. Peace ~Precioux herb4 said:

I have something for the "no drugs found in his system" and conspiracy minded types.

I'm between jobs, on pain medicine (hydrocodone) and self paying for doctor's visits since it's still cheaper than COBRA. When you self pay for these medicines, you HAVE to take a drug screen. Ok. No problem right?

Here's the thing. 2 out of the 3 urine screens I've taken have me testing NEGATIVE for opiods. I take 10-20 mg a day depending on my pain level. These doctors tell me I have ZERO in my system. NONE. 2 days ago, at the time of my last test, I had ALREADY TAKEN 15 mg by 1pm appointment. They're going to cut me off if I test "negative" again next month, at which point I'll be lucky if I can can drag my ass out of bed, let alone work.

I have a hyper crazy metabolism and always have. Cursory research into the matter suggests that people with high metaboloic rates can often produce "false negatives". I think they think I'm selling them and not taking them. Fucked up thing is, I had 20 or so pills left and brought them with ne. Showed them to the doc. I asked them, "now, if I were selling them, don't you think I'd be smart enough to eat 2 of these before my test?"

My point is, depending on a person's metabolism (and often even even their GENES), they can eat these things and still not test positive - even with a blood test I'm learning. Prince strikes me as a "high metabolism" sort so, based on what's happening to me, it got me to thinking. I'm testing NEGATIVE for fucking drugs I take EVERY DAY. It's astonishing. Prince would have metabolized similarly I'm inclined to think so don't take the drug test at face value.

I have NO REASON to lie to this thread. None at all. I TAKE the fucking medicine, often against my better judgement based on what I know about it and my propensity towards addiction, but I also enjoy being able to walk so I take them. Every day. As prescribed. I pee in thier cups and and they detect NO opioid usage. According to them, I'm not taking ENOUGH schedule 2 narcotics, and from what they think am not taking any at all.

Somebody explain that.

I worry about people on parole and shit like that if these stupid (cheap) tests are this unreliable, how it might effect thier lives and find myself in the odd position (for once) of actually trying to prove that I AM indeed taking very hard drugs.

Exactly, Precioux.

laytonian said:

Serious fans know of Andea Swensson of The Current AND her great book GOT TO BE SOMETHING HERE. If you haven't got that one yet, you are missing out on lots of important history.

In a panel held this week, she offers perhaps the best explanation why Prince is no longer here:

"During the Q&A session, an audience member asked how Prince’s death could create a potential positive change for the Opioid Epidemic. Andrea clarified that Prince’s death was actually part of an epidemic of mental health stigma surrounding musicians and public figures. Prince’s death was the result of being in “a lot of pain and [being] scared to tell anyone.”

I had to think about that...but I think she's correct. He didn't want to admit he wasn't as strong as he'd been in his earlier life and never wanted to admit an addiction -- so he hid it. He wanted to give his fam THE FULL PRINCE, no matter the cost to himself. Remember when he said "what if everyone left me?"
Lisa Coleman said essentially the same thing last year: (paraphrasing) "My friend isn't here because he couldn't say he was getting older..."

https://www.peopleofpaisl...e-mourning

[Edited 11/13/17 11:42am]

Meh... True to a degree, but not overall.

If Prince was promoting the same as usual (whatever that means), then I guess we could assume he was just callous about the death to some degree. But promoting more than usual could be the result of three things...the initial excitement of the upcoming birth (in the beginning) and the feeling that it was easier to live in delusion and go to work then face the pain and sorrow at home along with career pressure and a sense of trying to keep things together. I think at times he wanted his wife by his side; but obviously it was not going to work for her--she was too devastated and couldn't compartmentalize herself like he could.

Morgaine said:

206Michelle said:

Good point, Bart.

He definitely did more press, etc during that timeframe. Thoughts anyone?

[Edited 11/19/17 6:35am]

My Grandma told me that this is probably the problem for most couples. The man avoids the pain while the woman suffers alone.

purplerabbithole said:

If Prince was promoting the same as usual (whatever that means), then I guess we could assume he was just callous about the death to some degree. But promoting more than usual could be the result of three things...the initial excitement of the upcoming birth (in the beginning) and the feeling that it was easier to live in delusion and go to work then face the pain and sorrow at home along with career pressure and a sense of trying to keep things together. I think at times he wanted his wife by his side; but obviously it was not going to work for her--she was too devastated and couldn't compartmentalize herself like he could.

Morgaine said:

206Michelle said: He definitely did more press, etc during that timeframe. Thoughts anyone?

[Edited 11/19/17 6:35am]

Bodhitheblackdog said:

udo said:

.

Prince took a pill of questionable content knowing that it came from a questionable source.

We can be quite sure that he did not get these pill from a regular channel (doctor, pharmacy).

Thus it was a conscious descision, a conscious risk.

I did already draw the trend line through various other instances where P's decisions, policy etc resulted in sub-par situations.

So to cut it short: it was his own fault; whether you look at the superficial incident or the broader situation around his supposed pain or even broader at his career, especially the last few decades.

Thanks udo: it takes a lot of courage and dignity to tell the simple truth on the Org.

His own fault - yes. IMO it was a deliberate act - going out on his own terms for whatever reason, still unknown to us. Udo, you are right again.

I am not sure where you are coming from with that statement. There are various opinions and views where PRince is concerned on this "fan" community...and has always has been. Prince has been called every label in the book on this site (especially when he was alive). Since he died, the depictions of him have ranged from angel to devil. What's the repercussion for negativity about Prince?--disagreements--that's all. . Very few people are banned or barred from the site..Hell, people insulting Prince associates get barred much more often than Prince haters ever did.

If you don't think all people should agree that Prince's life was an absolute hell since his divorce and everyone hated him and was just waiting for him to die (which has been said on this site), are you somehow sanctifying the man? That supposed semi- insider who made some pretty harsh claims (condemning others who didn't care enough to stand up to him but never indicated that he/she stood up to Prince either) left on their own accord from what I gather.. He/she sent me an org notes and stated that P had good sides that we should also honor...

By the way, I do think Prince might have decided to let the chips fall where they may where his pain pills were concerned .

But really ultimately we only know how he died. He know the what but not the why. So, the truth (in some ways) is very subjective here.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

udo said:

.

Prince took a pill of questionable content knowing that it came from a questionable source.

We can be quite sure that he did not get these pill from a regular channel (doctor, pharmacy).

Thus it was a conscious descision, a conscious risk.

I did already draw the trend line through various other instances where P's decisions, policy etc resulted in sub-par situations.

So to cut it short: it was his own fault; whether you look at the superficial incident or the broader situation around his supposed pain or even broader at his career, especially the last few decades.

Thanks udo: it takes a lot of courage and dignity to tell the simple truth on the Org.

[Edited 11/19/17 9:28am]