purplerabbithole said:

Everytime people question the idea that P's family would want to hide a diease, my mind drifts not to cancer, but to AIDS. I still wonder to this day what celebrity that blind item was about.

It could also be they don't want folks to know that the drug addiction was long enough to cause liver problems.

Or it could be that P was a sufferer of pain and drug dependency.

Asenath0607 said:

have you given any thought to why people (i.e. his family, close associates) would rather the cause of death be linked to a drug problem than cancer?

Purple.....

Do you notice that every time anyone speculates as you have done here, very shortly after someone comes out of the woodwork and blasts the person to either put a stop to the conversation or creates havoc so the thread gets locked.

.

I’m convinced there are people out there who are watching & monitoring (apart from real mods) threads at the ready to stop conversations. Have you’all noticed that pattern here? Makes you wonder … is the conversation being directed deliberately?

.

Sorry for the conspiracy theory... we have enough of them already, lol, DD55

DD55 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Everytime people question the idea that P's family would want to hide a diease, my mind drifts not to cancer, but to AIDS. I still wonder to this day what celebrity that blind item was about.

It could also be they don't want folks to know that the drug addiction was long enough to cause liver problems.

Or it could be that P was a sufferer of pain and drug dependency.

Purple.....

Do you notice that every time anyone speculates as you have done here, very shortly after someone comes out of the woodwork and blasts the person to either put a stop to the conversation or creates havoc so the thread gets locked.

.

I’m convinced there are people out there who are watching & monitoring (apart from real mods) threads at the ready to stop conversations. Have you’all noticed that pattern here? Makes you wonder … is the conversation being directed deliberately?

.

Sorry for the conspiracy theory... we have enough of them already, lol, DD55

I agree totally...the attacks on this particular discussion are particularly virulent and defy statistical probability.

DD55 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Everytime people question the idea that P's family would want to hide a diease, my mind drifts not to cancer, but to AIDS. I still wonder to this day what celebrity that blind item was about.

It could also be they don't want folks to know that the drug addiction was long enough to cause liver problems.

Or it could be that P was a sufferer of pain and drug dependency.

Purple.....

Do you notice that every time anyone speculates as you have done here, very shortly after someone comes out of the woodwork and blasts the person to either put a stop to the conversation or creates havoc so the thread gets locked.

.

I’m convinced there are people out there who are watching & monitoring (apart from real mods) threads at the ready to stop conversations. Have you’all noticed that pattern here? Makes you wonder … is the conversation being directed deliberately?

.

Sorry for the conspiracy theory... we have enough of them already, lol, DD55

However, there are some people who are here to do nothing but cause trouble too and trolls who have their own agenda.

[Edited 11/5/17 11:18am]

206Michelle said:

Menes said:

Well, I didn't find any alarming or compelling reports to support that in the U.S., (specifically the Midwest) there was/is a groundswell of "watson 853" counterfeit pills laced with toxic levels of Fentanyl that were/is the cause of mass overdose.

However , there was/is a marked increase in the Midwest in heroin overdsoes that were laced with toxic levels of fentanyl.

Those pills were/are imprinted differently and are still in heavy rotation from regiom to region.

I found one news source in Louisiana (Natchitoches Parish) where the article talks about "numerous" watson 853 pills that contained toxic levels of fentanyl and Alprozalam ( generic Xanax).

Another pill (dubbed the "superpill"), has the imprint,"xanax" and not watson 853.The Midwest was inundated with this pill and was/is the cause of a tremendous amout of overdoses from 2012-present. There are different street names for it from region to region.

Oxycodone copycat pills (laced with toxic doses of fentanyl and imprinted as A215 and not watson 853), is the counterfeit pill that inundated the Midwest and caused tremendous spikes in deaths nation wide from 2012-present. These have been dubbed "roxi" pills but may have different street name from region to region.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to find any conclusive evidence, that pills, namely watson 853, was/is laced with toxic levels of fentanyl and was/is mass distributed nationally, or more precisely ,the Midwest (Minnesota).


* As an aside, we can trace the bulk of pills coming to the Midwest from specific regions and cartels in Mexico . With the correct search , you can find who makes what pill, cotents of the pill, distirbution routes , etc.

Borderland Beat

The million-dollar question is, what was the source of the Fentanyl that killed Prince?

Yes, that is the burning question.

It would be easy to wrap this up and say that fentanyl was in one of the pills that he ingested .Namely watson 853 or A-349 . However, the evidence does not support that either of these pills were generally seen to involve fentanyl related deaths.

That would mean that Prince really was very unique in getting one of these pills that were tainted as opposed to every other person who may have been using the same pills but did not overdose.

This is the problem with the non public data sheet that was released to the public. It is incomplete and we have all discussed this.

The public data sheet list cause of death as "fentanyl toxicity". But how factual and complete is that? If we look at the warrant , we can account for all of the narcotics that were taken from Paisley Park. There is no "fentanyl" or any imprint of Subsys, illicit or prescribed there. Furthermore, in the case of fentanyl toxicity, there are usually other drugs involved which she probably has in her toxicology report. I think we can assume that he had other drugs in his system.

Ingesting narcotics that may be tainted with toxic levels of fentanyl is usually deifined as combined drug toxification when death is the result. Hence, the mixing of the heroin and fentanyl that have produced a tremendous amount of overdoses.


If there are no fentanyl related deaths reported in watson 853/A349, we find ourselves in an interesting dilemma. Even if we assume that other things are listed on the actual autopsy/toxicology report, we would have to assume that Prince was the only person in Minnesota that got that deadly batch. There are no other reports of death from watson 853/a349 laced with fentanyl. Maybe there are and I just can't find it . I just dont understand why it is so easy to find all of the other pills with imprints that caused overdoses, but not these two in mass . If it's out there and not being reported, that seems to be dereliction of duty for not reporting a substance/narcotic that is causing death. I don't think the evidence exist to support fentanyl related deaths with these two pills.



So either there is some other combined drug toxification not mentioned, or, it was the easiest thing to conclude.

[Edited 11/5/17 11:18am]

Menes said:

Mumio said:

Maybe he obtained one or two of these fatal pills to be purposely used in the event that he wanted them to be the last pills he ever took...and there were none like them left behind for evidence or analysis.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Maybe he obtained one or two of these fatal pills to be purposely used in the event that he wanted them to be the last pills he ever took...and there were none like them left behind for evidence or analysis.

Ah.


1. If there is fentanyl toxicity present and you have no prescription, they are usually in mixed drug combination form.

2. The combination is usually heroin and fentanyl , or fentanyl and other Benzos. It may be sold as a singular substance but the majority of reports I have read is in combination form.


3. Watson 853 /a349 are not pills that are generally known on the street , nor are they pills that are usually combined with toxic doses of fentanyl for resale amongst street distributors. There was an occurence( pills found with watson 853 written on it that may have contained fentanyl) in states like Louisiana, but they are not generally accepted as the go to pills for producing a maximum high / profit.

Based upon the previous (3) points, whatever was ingested, and contained fentanyl, seems to have not been found during the search and seizure of the property @ Paisley Park as it was already ingested. Unless it was one of the watson 853/a349 pills that were found in abundance, I believe that something else was taken that was not part of the regimen. I could be wrong, but I just dont see the 853/349 being the "kill pills" .

What would be an interesting discussion is if we believe that this was the same pill he took on the plane. I do recall in the warrant that someone said that he was dealing with withdrawals from opiate addiction. I dont know if they meant prior to the plane ride or after?

Even if he we conclude that watson 853 /a349 was the "kill pills" , and that it was in Prince's possession all along, we are going to have to reconcile that with him having knowledge that after the incident on the place, that there is a very high probablity that there are more "kill pills" in that same batch.



I would therefore agree with you that whatever was obtained and ingested is unlikely to be the same pill as watson 853/a-349.

laurarichardson said:

Menes said:

Yes, that is the burning question.

It would be easy to wrap this up and say that fentanyl was in one of the pills that he ingested .Namely watson 853 or A-349 . However, the evidence does not support that either of these pills were generally seen to involve fentanyl related deaths.

That would mean that Prince really was very unique in getting one of these pills that were tainted as opposed to every other person who may have been using the same pills but did not overdose.

This is the problem with the non public data sheet that was released to the public. It is incomplete and we have all discussed this.

The public data sheet list cause of death as "fentanyl toxicity". But how factual and complete is that? If we look at the warrant , we can account for all of the narcotics that were taken from Paisley Park. There is no "fentanyl" or any imprint of Subsys, illicit or prescribed there. Furthermore, in the case of fentanyl toxicity, there are usually other drugs involved which she probably has in her toxicology report. I think we can assume that he had other drugs in his system.

Ingesting narcotics that may be tainted with toxic levels of fentanyl is usually deifined as combined drug toxification when death is the result. Hence, the mixing of the heroin and fentanyl that have produced a tremendous amount of overdoses.


If there are no fentanyl related deaths reported in watson 853/A349, we find ourselves in an interesting dilemma. Even if we assume that other things are listed on the actual autopsy/toxicology report, we would have to assume that Prince was the only person in Minnesota that got that deadly batch. There are no other reports of death from watson 853/a349 laced with fentanyl. Maybe there are and I just can't find it . I just dont understand why it is so easy to find all of the other pills with imprints that caused overdoses, but not these two in mass . If it's out there and not being reported, that seems to be dereliction of duty for not reporting a substance/narcotic that is causing death. I don't think the evidence exist to support fentanyl related deaths with these two pills.



So either there is some other combined drug toxification not mentioned, or, it was the easiest thing to conclude.

[Edited 11/5/17 11:18am]

At the time I think it was the easiest thing to conclude. Now a year and half out What are the chances that he had the only toxic pull in Minnesota?

There have been (0) reports of a "kill pill" resembling watson 853/a349 since the death of Prince in 2016. That narcotic would've been in high demand.

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Maybe he obtained one or two of these fatal pills to be purposely used in the event that he wanted them to be the last pills he ever took...and there were none like them left behind for evidence or analysis.

Ah.


1. If there is fentanyl toxicity present and you have no prescription, they are usually in mixed drug combination form.

2. The combination is usually heroin and fentanyl , or fentanyl and other Benzos. It may be sold as a singular substance but the majority of reports I have read is in combination form.


3. Watson 853 /a349 are not pills that are generally known on the street , nor are they pills that are usually combined with toxic doses of fentanyl for resale amongst street distributors. There was an occurence( pills found with watson 853 written on it that may have contained fentanyl) in states like Louisiana, but they are not generally accepted as the go to pills for producing a maximum high / profit.

Based upon the previous (3) points, whatever was ingested, and contained fentanyl, seems to have not been found during the search and seizure of the property @ Paisley Park as it was already ingested. Unless it was one of the watson 853/a349 pills that were found in abundance, I believe that something else was taken that was not part of the regimen. I could be wrong, but I just dont see the 853/349 being the "kill pills" .

What would be an interesting discussion is if we believe that this was the same pill he took on the plane. I do recall in the warrant that someone said that he was dealing with withdrawals from opiate addiction. I dont know if they meant prior to the plane ride or after?

Even if he we conclude that watson 853 /a349 was the "kill pills" , and that it was in Prince's possession all along, we are going to have to reconcile that with him having knowledge that after the incident on the place, that there is a very high probablity that there are more "kill pills" in that same batch.



I would therefore agree with you that whatever was obtained and ingested is unlikely to be the same pill as watson 853/a-349.

The drama of going out in an airplane after a concert rings true; But I can't see him wanting Judith to be a witness. I think dehydration and his on-going weight loss made a 'miscalculation' possible. But I also believe the aftermath (the save shots, headlines, hospital visit) made him determined that he would never allow himself to be revived again. Hence, recourse to his ultimate stash.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

Ah.


1. If there is fentanyl toxicity present and you have no prescription, they are usually in mixed drug combination form.

2. The combination is usually heroin and fentanyl , or fentanyl and other Benzos. It may be sold as a singular substance but the majority of reports I have read is in combination form.


3. Watson 853 /a349 are not pills that are generally known on the street , nor are they pills that are usually combined with toxic doses of fentanyl for resale amongst street distributors. There was an occurence( pills found with watson 853 written on it that may have contained fentanyl) in states like Louisiana, but they are not generally accepted as the go to pills for producing a maximum high / profit.

Based upon the previous (3) points, whatever was ingested, and contained fentanyl, seems to have not been found during the search and seizure of the property @ Paisley Park as it was already ingested. Unless it was one of the watson 853/a349 pills that were found in abundance, I believe that something else was taken that was not part of the regimen. I could be wrong, but I just dont see the 853/349 being the "kill pills" .

What would be an interesting discussion is if we believe that this was the same pill he took on the plane. I do recall in the warrant that someone said that he was dealing with withdrawals from opiate addiction. I dont know if they meant prior to the plane ride or after?

Even if he we conclude that watson 853 /a349 was the "kill pills" , and that it was in Prince's possession all along, we are going to have to reconcile that with him having knowledge that after the incident on the place, that there is a very high probablity that there are more "kill pills" in that same batch.



I would therefore agree with you that whatever was obtained and ingested is unlikely to be the same pill as watson 853/a-349.

The drama of going out in an airplane after a concert rings true; But I can't see him wanting Judith to be a witness. I think dehydration and his on-going weight loss made a 'miscalculation' possible. But I also believe the aftermath (the save shots, headlines, hospital visit) made him determined that he would never allow himself to be revived again. Hence, recourse to his ultimate stash.

Ok. Let's adovcate for both competing narratives.

If the idea is that a "miscalculation " is possible, that would mean that a 'miscalculation' is possible for the second event. There are specific events that would support the narrative that there was a high probability that an accidental 'miscalculation' may have taken place and that there was a will to live. For instance:

1. Getting more prescriptions.

2. Doing blood analyis and waiting for results.

3. Planning more shows.

4. These are just a few , but they represent a will to live.

On the other hand, if the 'miscalculation' was determined to be damaging and that the aftermath was going to be unbearable there are examples to support why there would be no wiill to live.

1. Statements made by him pursuant to the plane incident.

2. Thwarted belongingness and perceived burdensomeness.

3. Repeating the same behavior that produced the initial event after having knowledge of the outcome of said event.

4. Wanting to be alone on the very evening of the second event.

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

Exactly, dope fiends would be feening for those pills and dealers would be selling them. I think this was a special batch for Prince.

Menes said:

Menes said:

In continuation of the pills that were found at Paisley Park and taken into custody:

CVS Pharmacy bottle containing Ondansetron HCL 8 mg.

1. Ondansetron is primaily used to prevent nausea and vomiting that is caused by cancer medicines (chemotherapy or radiation therapy). The brand name for this drug is Zofran. This drug should define the condition or state of the user more than any other drug that was taken from Paisley Park.


2. It works by blocking the action of serotonin, the signal on the brain that causes nausea and vomiting. There were many posters in numerous org. threads ( to include this one) who had already stated these findings. I have not found any other compelling reason for the use of this drug other than that which is clearly stated above. This is to include HIV and AIDS.

3. This drug can produce a variety of serious side effects to include , but not limited to; itching, rash, nervousness, anxiety, irregular heartbeats, etc.

4. Ths may explain a lot of the other prescribed drugs that were given to Prince by Dr. Schulenberg.

5. One prescription was writtend for Kirk Johnson by Dr. Schulenberg and is shown as, Oxycodone. However, the CVS Pharmacy bottle with the Ondansetron HCL 8mg, was in Kirk Johnson's name. The Midwest Monitoring Program does not list Kirk Johnson as receiving Ondansetron via a doctor's prescription. Unless Kirk had problems with nausea and vomiting too, I think you can understand what is happening here.

5. Since I don't believe Prince had surgery as current as when the pills were found, I believe he was either self medicating without the use of chemotherapy, or , receiving chemotherapy secretly. I lean to the former.


Short Summary

So far, it seems that self adminstered mechanisms were devised in order to manage some type of pain. There is less evidence that this is primarily driven by addiction.


*For your records :

MedlinePlus Information o...rochloride

[Edited 11/3/17 16:42pm]

I may need to adjust my eyeballs because this thng I will now write, is for me, a disaster with these tabloid and news outlets.

They should all be fired!

So, I am nearing the end of my report on the drugs mentioned in all of the warrants . I am looking at these things and I am perplexed by such odd findings.

I do my searches and come up empty and can't understand why. Then it hits me. It's the wrong fucking set of numbers and descriptions that was reported on for over a year!

What is this thing you may wonder?

3-8-5. Remember that number? Watson 385.

The trusted AP, Billboard, and on and on and on we could go. 385 is the mislabeled tainted toxic pill that contained fentanyl. No, not a fentanyl pill, not another pill , but watson 3-8-5. Nope, not even the real watson 853 pill is part of the discussion/ article.



We have the warrant here. The warrant says watson 853 ! Typo you say? It gets better!

Billboard states that the "watson 385" pills were found in a Vitamin C bottle! It just keeps getting worse!

Our trusted AP( Associated Press) source corrected a "mistake they made by stating that it was U-47700 and not U-4770 that was the synthetic drugs found in some pills. The article goes on to say that "nearly two dozen pills were falsely labeled Watson 385". Then they lied and said that the Star Tribune reported the false labeling first. I don't think the Star Tribune article mentioned any set of numbers.

* The NY times did get it right.


Pills Found at Prince's E... Billboard




Correction: Prince Death ... - AP News


Why is that important? There has never been any conclusive evidence that fentanyl laced death pills were contained in watson 853, nor that any of the pills contained U-47700 or U4770. Not even those on the street. Google it. I'll wait. Ok, I'm done waiting.


So here we are, on this wild goose chase (or is it just me) to find this nasty fentanyl outbreak that got into the millions of counterfeit batches of Watson 385. Or is it Watson 853? Either way, it would be part of the batch that Prince would get a hold of. Yes,yes, of course.

I know getting information from the DEA is harder than prying anything from a crab's ass, but they did give us a free report. Nice dates too.

There are some more tidbits but I will give you time to read the DEA's boring report that was filed in July , 2016 . Ill give you a tidbit now.

So, remember that AP report about the correction they made from U-47700 to U-4770? How ironic is it that pills, that were blue , with the marking "A215" did contain U-47700 in March of 2016 ( see page 5).


For your records:

Counterfeit Prescription ... ... - DEA

I find it interesting about the lack of fake Watson 385 in street seizures.


Watson 853 was discontinued I believe back in 2014, so it is understandable that there would be fake ones in high demand. It's even understandable that a celebrity would have fake ones, possibly thinking they got ahold of some of the last batches of the real ones available. I can see the media even assuming that because it makes logical sense.


But the Watson 385 is still in production, it makes NO sense if those were his preferred meds for whatever reason that he couldn't get the real ones even if it was by a prescription in someone eles's name, which looks like what was happening with other controlled substances. From everything I've read it was 1 or 2 fake Watson 385 that killed him and those are the pills that were tested and were found to have excessive amounts of fentanyl in a single pill.

And not one new fact has come out since.

morningsong said:

Menes said:

I may need to adjust my eyeballs because this thng I will now write, is for me, a disaster with these tabloid and news outlets.

They should all be fired!

So, I am nearing the end of my report on the drugs mentioned in all of the warrants . I am looking at these things and I am perplexed by such odd findings.

I do my searches and come up empty and can't understand why. Then it hits me. It's the wrong fucking set of numbers and descriptions that was reported on for over a year!

What is this thing you may wonder?

3-8-5. Remember that number? Watson 385.

The trusted AP, Billboard, and on and on and on we could go. 385 is the mislabeled tainted toxic pill that contained fentanyl. No, not a fentanyl pill, not another pill , but watson 3-8-5. Nope, not even the real watson 853 pill is part of the discussion/ article.



We have the warrant here. The warrant says watson 853 ! Typo you say? It gets better!

Billboard states that the "watson 385" pills were found in a Vitamin C bottle! It just keeps getting worse!

Our trusted AP( Associated Press) source corrected a "mistake they made by stating that it was U-47700 and not U-4770 that was the synthetic drugs found in some pills. The article goes on to say that "nearly two dozen pills were falsely labeled Watson 385". Then they lied and said that the Star Tribune reported the false labeling first. I don't think the Star Tribune article mentioned any set of numbers.

* The NY times did get it right.


Pills Found at Prince's E... Billboard




Correction: Prince Death ... - AP News


Why is that important? There has never been any conclusive evidence that fentanyl laced death pills were contained in watson 853, nor that any of the pills contained U-47700 or U4770. Not even those on the street. Google it. I'll wait. Ok, I'm done waiting.


So here we are, on this wild goose chase (or is it just me) to find this nasty fentanyl outbreak that got into the millions of counterfeit batches of Watson 385. Or is it Watson 853? Either way, it would be part of the batch that Prince would get a hold of. Yes,yes, of course.

I know getting information from the DEA is harder than prying anything from a crab's ass, but they did give us a free report. Nice dates too.

There are some more tidbits but I will give you time to read the DEA's boring report that was filed in July , 2016 . Ill give you a tidbit now.

So, remember that AP report about the correction they made from U-47700 to U-4770? How ironic is it that pills, that were blue , with the marking "A215" did contain U-47700 in March of 2016 ( see page 5).


For your records:

Counterfeit Prescription ... ... - DEA

I find it interesting about the lack of fake Watson 385 in street seizures.


Watson 853 was discontinued I believe back in 2014, so it is understandable that there would be fake ones in high demand. It's even understandable that a celebrity would have fake ones, possibly thinking they got ahold of some of the last batches of the real ones available. I can see the media even assuming that because it makes logical sense.


But the Watson 385 is still in production, it makes NO sense if those were his preferred meds for whatever reason that he couldn't get the real ones even if it was by a prescription in someone eles's name, which looks like what was happening with other controlled substances. From everything I've read it was 1 or 2 fake Watson 385 that killed him and those are the pills that were tested and were found to have excessive amounts of fentanyl in a single pill.

And not one new fact has come out since.

Well ,if it was watson 385 that killed him, that would be different from the pills imprinted as watson 853 that were actually found and taken into custody, according to the warrant. There were no pills imprinted as watson 385 that were found and taken into custody.

Menes said:

Well ,if it was watson 385 that killed him, that would be different from the pills imprinted as watson 853 that were actually found and taken into custody, according to the warrant. There were no pills imprinted as watson 385 that were found and taken into custody.

Right, that's what I thought too. It was the 853's that they found at PP.

Menes said:

morningsong said:

I find it interesting about the lack of fake Watson 385 in street seizures.


Watson 853 was discontinued I believe back in 2014, so it is understandable that there would be fake ones in high demand. It's even understandable that a celebrity would have fake ones, possibly thinking they got ahold of some of the last batches of the real ones available. I can see the media even assuming that because it makes logical sense.


But the Watson 385 is still in production, it makes NO sense if those were his preferred meds for whatever reason that he couldn't get the real ones even if it was by a prescription in someone eles's name, which looks like what was happening with other controlled substances. From everything I've read it was 1 or 2 fake Watson 385 that killed him and those are the pills that were tested and were found to have excessive amounts of fentanyl in a single pill.

And not one new fact has come out since.

Well ,if it was watson 385 that killed him, that would be different from the pills imprinted as watson 853 that were actually found and taken into custody, according to the warrant. There were no pills imprinted as watson 385 that were found and taken into custody.

One was discontinued and that's the one the media reported killed him, the other wasn't discontinued and that's the one showing up on the search warrant.

Both types were not found listed on the search warrant.

It is only through the media that we are getting that the pills were tested and how much was found in his system.

There is a disconnect, even if I'm mistakenly transposing the numbers. There still is the difference of information that's on the warrant versus what's in the media. Yet no corrections have been made.

Menes said:

(4) quick questions.


(In consideration of all that we know)...

Let's say that you have information that Prince , more likely than not, is suffering from severe chronic pain and/or a terminal illness.

Let's say that you have information that Prince , is more than likely, not receiving doctors care for said chronic pain and/or terminal illness.

Let's say that you have information that Prince, more than likely, has chosen to self medicate by self administering various narcotics to alleviate the symptoms arising from chronic pain and/or terminal illness as opposed to using any conventional means...

Let's say that you have information that Prince, more than likely, does not have an in-home caretaker , is not in a hospice and for all practical purposes , is in charge of his own health...

My questions are:

What would be the most logical way that Prince's life would end( barring unnatural causes)?

Who woud be the most logical person to make a decision to end Prince's suffering?

How would the suffering end if he is not under any medical supervision or care?

If you believe that Prince was the sole individual in charge of hs health and when he would want to end the suffering, what difference would it have made if had he decided to end his life a year from now, or tomorrow?

or

Menes said:

(4) quick questions.


(In consideration of all that we know)...

Let's say that you have information that Prince , more likely than not, is suffering from severe chronic pain and/or a terminal illness.

Let's say that you have information that Prince , is more than likely, not receiving doctors care for said chronic pain and/or terminal illness.

Let's say that you have information that Prince, more than likely, has chosen to self medicate by self administering various narcotics to alleviate the symptoms arising from chronic pain and/or terminal illness as opposed to using any conventional means...

Let's say that you have information that Prince, more than likely, does not have an in-home caretaker , is not in a hospice and for all practical purposes , is in charge of his own health...

My questions are:

What would be the most logical way that Prince's life would end( barring unnatural causes)?

Who woud be the most logical person to make a decision to end Prince's suffering?

How would the suffering end if he is not under any medical supervision or care?

If you believe that Prince was the sole individual in charge of hs health and when he would want to end the suffering, what difference would it have made if had he decided to end his life a year from now, or tomorrow?

1) it is NOT logical to assume that he would enter hospice care in a hospital, hire caretakers (strangers) to come to PP or impress into service relatives, musicians or fans to care for him as his health declined.

2) Prince, of course.

3) Pills...he wouldn't have used a gun, opened his veins, hung himself or thrown himself to the atrium floor from the balcony.He wouldn't have moved to a death-with-dignity state, hired someone to kill him, or staged an 'accidental' drowning. He wouldn'y have driven his car into a tree, electrocuted himself in Studio A or risked having a seizure and dying on stage.

4) None. RIP.

[Edited 11/5/17 17:08pm]

Morgaine said:

The presence of the 1 non-RX Suboxone pill is confusing. There's so much that can be suggested by this pill - what it is used for, how it can affect opiate usage, as well as inferring a level of awareness about opiate dependency. Peace & Be Wild

Was it just one though? The warrant states 1 orange pill with #8; but also states "8 orange oval pills". Could the 8 orange oval pills also been Suboxone?

Morgaine said:

Menes said:

Yes, that is the burning question.

It would be easy to wrap this up and say that fentanyl was in one of the pills that he ingested .Namely watson 853 or A-349 . However, the evidence does not support that either of these pills were generally seen to involve fentanyl related deaths.

That would mean that Prince really was very unique in getting one of these pills that were tainted as opposed to every other person who may have been using the same pills but did not overdose.

This is the problem with the non public data sheet that was released to the public. It is incomplete and we have all discussed this.

The public data sheet list cause of death as "fentanyl toxicity". But how factual and complete is that? If we look at the warrant , we can account for all of the narcotics that were taken from Paisley Park. There is no "fentanyl" or any imprint of Subsys, illicit or prescribed there. Furthermore, in the case of fentanyl toxicity, there are usually other drugs involved which she probably has in her toxicology report. I think we can assume that he had other drugs in his system.

Ingesting narcotics that may be tainted with toxic levels of fentanyl is usually deifined as combined drug toxification when death is the result. Hence, the mixing of the heroin and fentanyl that have produced a tremendous amount of overdoses.


If there are no fentanyl related deaths reported in watson 853/A349, we find ourselves in an interesting dilemma. Even if we assume that other things are listed on the actual autopsy/toxicology report, we would have to assume that Prince was the only person in Minnesota that got that deadly batch. There are no other reports of death from watson 853/a349 laced with fentanyl. Maybe there are and I just can't find it . I just dont understand why it is so easy to find all of the other pills with imprints that caused overdoses, but not these two in mass . If it's out there and not being reported, that seems to be dereliction of duty for not reporting a substance/narcotic that is causing death. I don't think the evidence exist to support fentanyl related deaths with these two pills.



So either there is some other combined drug toxification not mentioned, or, it was the easiest thing to conclude.

[Edited 11/5/17 11:18am]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that some of the hydrocodone pills (853) were found to have varying amounts of fentanyl. If true, it would be extremely difficult for a person to know which pill(s) to ingest to achieve a desired effect be it pain relief or death as they are identically marked according to what was reported. I do seem to recall this was "leaked" information that hasn't been verified or discredited by any law enforcement agencies. It would be helpful to have either. Peace & Be Wild

That was my understanding also. And while I have been open to various theories, that is why I am having a hard time following the logic behind him committing suicide.

http://www.startribune.com/pills-seized-from-paisley-park-contained-illicit-fentanyl-same-drug-that-killed-prince/390816101/

I thought the only suboxone found were the ones Andrew had in his back pack?

Bodhitheblackdog said:

or

Menes said:

(4) quick questions.


(In consideration of all that we know)...

Let's say that you have information that Prince , more likely than not, is suffering from severe chronic pain and/or a terminal illness.

Let's say that you have information that Prince , is more than likely, not receiving doctors care for said chronic pain and/or terminal illness.

Let's say that you have information that Prince, more than likely, has chosen to self medicate by self administering various narcotics to alleviate the symptoms arising from chronic pain and/or terminal illness as opposed to using any conventional means...

Let's say that you have information that Prince, more than likely, does not have an in-home caretaker , is not in a hospice and for all practical purposes , is in charge of his own health...

My questions are:

What would be the most logical way that Prince's life would end( barring unnatural causes)?

Who woud be the most logical person to make a decision to end Prince's suffering?

How would the suffering end if he is not under any medical supervision or care?

If you believe that Prince was the sole individual in charge of hs health and when he would want to end the suffering, what difference would it have made if had he decided to end his life a year from now, or tomorrow?

1) it is NOT logical to assume that he would enter hospice care in a hospital, hire caretakers (strangers) to come to PP or impress into service relatives, musicians or fans to care for him as his health declined.

2) Prince, of course.

3) Pills...he wouldn't have used a gun, opened his veins, hung himself or thrown himself to the atrium floor from the balcony.He wouldn't have moved to a death-with-dignity state, hired someone to kill him, or staged an 'accidental' drowning. He wouldn'y have driven his car into a tree, electrocuted himself in Studio A or risked having a seizure and dying on stage.

4) None. RIP.

[Edited 11/5/17 17:08pm]

Yet, some would have us believe that the aggregate amount of information that has been known for some time, is superceded by licensing guidelines, and that those guidelines, should remain unchallenged even if there is a clear preponderance of evidence to support that it could be something else.

Menes said:

I wanted to disregard all of the tabloid information I've read and focus soley on the facts of each search warrant that was reviewed here. Of note, there are some things in these warrants that I was not aware of and found interesting. Some if not most of it, is already known here on the org. I will highlight the tidbits that I wasn't aware of until taking a closer look at the warrants. I wil post each in descending order as time permits.

September 19, 2016 warrant filed and issued.

1. This is the warrant for all data maintained by Google, Inc. for the Gmail account identified as Paislerparkafterdark@gmail.com. The facts tending to establish foregoing grounds for issuance are as followed.

Below are the finding from the "Affiant" , detective Christina Warner, of the Carver County Sherriff's office for 16 years.

a. On April 21, 2016 at 0943 hours , the Sheriffs deputies were dispatched to Paisley Park studios.

b. Prince Rogers Nelson was found in an elevator and not breathing.

c. Prince was unresponsive and pronounced deceased at the scene.

d. Witnesses at the scene that were interviewed stated that Prince recently had a history of going thru withdrawals which are believed to be the result of the abuse of prescription medication. ( I wasn't aware that someone in Prince's camp stated that).

e. The Affiant learned that Prince had "passed out" during a flight from Atlanta.

f. According to one of the witnesses interviewed, Prince admitted to taking 1-2 "pain pills" during this flight.

g. During the search of Prince's residence, detectives located numerous controlled substance pills in various containers and areas of Prince's bedroom, some of which was in a suitcase with the name tag of "Peter Bravestrong". Inside of the suitcase were several prescription bottles in the name of Kirk Johnson.

h. Prince had no prescriptions issued to him but Kirk Johnson had Oxycodone prescribed to him by Dr. Michael Schuelenberg on 4-14-2016 according to the Minnesota Prescription Monitoring Program.

i. On 4-26-16 Attorney Gary Hansen (who had been appointed to take care of Prince's affairs after death) provided consent for the Sherriff's office to take custody of a silver Apple laptop computer found in Prince's bedroom.

j. On Monday 5-19-2016 Sgt. Meir received a phone call from Dr. Quin Strobel(ME) on whch the results of Prince's toxicology screening showed Prince had a lethal dose of the narcotic fentanyl in his system. (wasn't the information released prior to this date, or was it June?)

k. Dr. Schulenberg( who was at the scene on 4-21-2016) admitted to prescribing Prince a prescription for oxycodone the same day as the landing but put the prescription in kirk Johnson's name for privacy.

L. Affiant learned that Prince did not have a regular doctor and that his managers would set him up with various doctors before a show so that Prince could get a "b12" injection before his performance.

m. Affiant learned that Julia Yasine Ramadan(Prince's manager from 2011-2013) set up a google account for Prince identified as jyramadan@gmail.com.

n. DEA learned that Prince's computer had several email accounts to include mistag3@ gmail, peterbravestrong @gmail, paisleyparkafterdark@gmail, and jyramaan@gmail.

o. Affiant learned that Julia Ramadan told detective Kuhnau that after she heard about the drug overdose ,she had sent an email to Prince stating "sending my love" to which a response of "love recieved " was sent back to her.

p. On 9-19-2016, Affiant received information from google that all accounts were current. There was also a recovery email that was set up in the name of KAJhipfit.net which is one of the accounts registered to Kirk Johnson. The Affiant confirmed that they are aware that Kirk Johnson previously assisted Prince in obtaining a controlled substance by contacting Dr. Schulenberg on 4-14-16.

Can you post a link to the search warrants with this information? I've been searching and can't find. Thanks!

Asenath0607 said:

Can you post a link to the search warrants with this information? I've been searching and can't find. Thanks!

http://www.mncourts.gov/I...elson.aspx

The link is in the 3rd paragraph

Morgaine said:

Menes said:

Yes, that is the burning question.

It would be easy to wrap this up and say that fentanyl was in one of the pills that he ingested .Namely watson 853 or A-349 . However, the evidence does not support that either of these pills were generally seen to involve fentanyl related deaths.

That would mean that Prince really was very unique in getting one of these pills that were tainted as opposed to every other person who may have been using the same pills but did not overdose.

This is the problem with the non public data sheet that was released to the public. It is incomplete and we have all discussed this.

The public data sheet list cause of death as "fentanyl toxicity". But how factual and complete is that? If we look at the warrant , we can account for all of the narcotics that were taken from Paisley Park. There is no "fentanyl" or any imprint of Subsys, illicit or prescribed there. Furthermore, in the case of fentanyl toxicity, there are usually other drugs involved which she probably has in her toxicology report. I think we can assume that he had other drugs in his system.

Ingesting narcotics that may be tainted with toxic levels of fentanyl is usually deifined as combined drug toxification when death is the result. Hence, the mixing of the heroin and fentanyl that have produced a tremendous amount of overdoses.


If there are no fentanyl related deaths reported in watson 853/A349, we find ourselves in an interesting dilemma. Even if we assume that other things are listed on the actual autopsy/toxicology report, we would have to assume that Prince was the only person in Minnesota that got that deadly batch. There are no other reports of death from watson 853/a349 laced with fentanyl. Maybe there are and I just can't find it . I just dont understand why it is so easy to find all of the other pills with imprints that caused overdoses, but not these two in mass . If it's out there and not being reported, that seems to be dereliction of duty for not reporting a substance/narcotic that is causing death. I don't think the evidence exist to support fentanyl related deaths with these two pills.



So either there is some other combined drug toxification not mentioned, or, it was the easiest thing to conclude.

[Edited 11/5/17 11:18am]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that some of the hydrocodone pills (853) were found to have varying amounts of fentanyl. If true, it would be extremely difficult for a person to know which pill(s) to ingest to achieve a desired effect be it pain relief or death as they are identically marked according to what was reported. I do seem to recall this was "leaked" information that hasn't been verified or discredited by any law enforcement agencies. It would be helpful to have either. Peace & Be Wild

According to the warrant there were a lot of the counterfeit pills. According to the media many of the counterfeit pills were tested and were found with high concentrations of fentanyl. The difference between the 2 reports is the actual number stamped on the pills. No media report has printed a retraction.


From a Billboard article:

Obviously this is the article that misprinted the U-47700 and must have later corrected their mistake

Search warrant states (15) Watson853 found in 2nd flr dressing room. (64-1/2) Watson853 found in Bayer bottle. (20-1/2) Watson853 in an Aleve bottle

morningsong said:

Morgaine said:

Menes said: Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that some of the hydrocodone pills (853) were found to have varying amounts of fentanyl. If true, it would be extremely difficult for a person to know which pill(s) to ingest to achieve a desired effect be it pain relief or death as they are identically marked according to what was reported. I do seem to recall this was "leaked" information that hasn't been verified or discredited by any law enforcement agencies. It would be helpful to have either. Peace & Be Wild

According to the warrant there were a lot of the counterfeit pills. According to the media many of the counterfeit pills were tested and were found with high concentrations of fentanyl. The difference between the 2 reports is the actual number stamped on the pills. No media report has printed a retraction.


From a Billboard article:

One pill with the "Watson 385" stamp that was analyzed by the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension tested positive for fentanyl, lidocaine and another drug.

Officials found nearly two dozen pills similar to the one that was tested, the official said.

Another aspirin bottle had 64 counterfeit tablets in it. Some pills that were analyzed contained fentanyl, lidocaine and U-4770 -- a synthetic drug that is eight times more powerful than morphine.

Obviously this is the article that misprinted the U-47700 and must have later corrected their mistake

Search warrant states (15) Watson853 found in 2nd flr dressing room. (64-1/2) Watson853 found in Bayer bottle. (20-1/2) Watson853 in an Aleve bottle

Just to be clear, the point of the thread was to disregard all tabloid information and focus soley on the facts in the warrants . In addition, we use those facts to compile additonal information relevant to what is written in the warrants. I've posted numerous links in this thread where tabloid and news agencies misquoted the facts in the warrants. That is not what we are doing here.