Just came across this.

[Edited 10/20/17 5:40am]

Self-snip

[Edited 10/20/17 5:42am]

bonatoc said:

Woops...

http://prince.org/msg/7/415820

Mods please nuke this.

That thread is not active

In that case...

What do you think of Prince playing hangman?
If Aura is his muse, do you think he was trying to convey a feeling that he was struggling with a blank page? Which would explain GB track list, which contains a fair deal of "old" compositions.

bonatoc said:

In that case...

What do you think of Prince playing hangman?
If Aura is his muse, do you think he was trying to convey a feeling that he was struggling with a blank page? Which would explain GB track list, which contains a fair deal of "old" compositions.

I pulled up one of the Graffiti Bridge scripts and it was Aura that introduced the Hangman game

I'll have to post it here

bonatoc said:

Just came across this.

[Edited 10/20/17 5:40am]

This is interesting. It is a strange scene, but not as disturbing as the hanging scene in the PR movie though.

CherryMoon57 said:

bonatoc said:

Just came across this.

[Edited 10/20/17 5:40am]

This is interesting. It is a strange scene, but not as disturbing as the hanging scene in the PR movie though.

Oh my. I don't know why I totally obliterate that one.
Yes, but the Kid has some kind of motivation to end it. And it's just a very quick suggestion, just a few frames. And the violent reaction against the idea of suicide is the point. The Kid has a choice.

The scene with Aura (well, it's hard to say what Aura has in mind or means since Ingrid is such a catastrophic actress, I mean Prince acts like Brando next to her), on the other hand, it goes on, and there is a progression in it. It's like his muse could be the end of him. He lets her lead the game, he seems helpless, at her mercy. I can't figure what he meant by that.

bonatoc said:

CherryMoon57 said:

This is interesting. It is a strange scene, but not as disturbing as the hanging scene in the PR movie though.

Oh my. I don't know why I totally obliterate that one.
Yes, but the Kid has some kind of motivation to end it. And it's just a very quick suggestion, just a few frames. And the violent reaction against the idea of suicide is the point. The Kid has a choice.

The scene with Aura (well, it's hard to say what Aura has in mind or means since Ingrid is such a catastrophic actress, I mean Prince acts like Brando next to her), on the other hand, it goes on, and there is a progression in it. It's like his muse could be the end of him. He lets her lead the game, he seems helpless, at her mercy. I can't figure what he meant by that.

Maybe he wants to make an illustration that his choice (a bit like in your interpretation of the PR scene) was either 'Death' or 'Love' at that point and the symbolic game is perhaps destined to make him face that decision, or help him communicate his emotions... (The answer at the end of the game is 'Love Me').

Graffiti Bridge 2nd Draft 11.26.1989

A series of dissolves finds the Kid taking Aura to his club

onto the stage and down the trap door to his bedroom.

There he tucks her very cozily into his bed.

Another dissolve and and the morning light shines in

through the ceiling. Aura stirs a bit waking the kid who is

asleep at the foot of the bed. He crawls on the bed until he

is directly over Aura. Her eyes open. She is even prettier to him

the morning after.

...

This is where the Kid is playing hangman and then Aura / the Angel

makes a real game of hangman.

.

the word M I N E is what he didn't guess, she begins hanging him and then gives

his the stool right before he passes out.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Graffiti Bridge 2nd Draft 11.26.1989

A series of dissolves finds the Kid taking Aura to his club

onto the stage and down the trap door to his bedroom.

There he tucks her very cozily into his bed.

Another dissolve and and the morning light shines in

through the ceiling. Aura stirs a bit waking the kid who is

asleep at the foot of the bed. He crawls on the bed until he

is directly over Aura. Her eyes open. She is even prettier to him

the morning after.

...

This is where the Kid is playing hangman and then Aura / the Angel

makes a real game of hangman.

.

the word M I N E is what he didn't guess, she begins hanging him and then gives

his the stool right before he passes out.

I guess when they showed L O V E M E (in the clip posted in the OP), that was also to reference the lyrics in 'Joy In Repetition'.

[Edited 10/20/17 8:04am]

Ah, takes me back to the early 2000's watching these on VHS. That was the only way back then.

Many people say they don't like the movie as they don't get it. This might be due to the heavy editing but in fact - that movie is Prince.

Hangman, the heart and "LOVE ME" is all Prince and his dark side, some even say his S and M thing.

Prince himself could never ask for (unconditional) love and didn't feel worthy of it. He could put it in song but he let the other one say it.

There was a scene where Ingrid paints a heart on his chest and this heart thing will be picked up again later when he does "Tick Tick Bang". This time the heart on his chest says BEAT ME. It is a nice pun but it is Prince himself asking for just that. And the real Hangman scene is just the same.

[Edited 10/20/17 9:44am]

CatB said:

Many people say they don't like the movie as they don't get it. This might be due to the heavy editing but in fact - that movie is Prince.

Hangman, the heart and "LOVE ME" is all Prince and his dark side, some even say his S and M thing.

Prince himself could never ask for (unconditional) love and didn't feel worthy of it. He could put it on song but he let the other one say it.

There was a scene where Ingrid paints a heart on his chest and this heart thing will be picked up again later when he does "Tick Tick Bang". This time the heart on his chest says BEAT ME. It is a nice pun but it is Prince himself asking for just that. And the real Hangman scene is just the same.

Pretty interesting. I never understood the apparent fascination for Prince for SM, I considered it was just a phase ("Gett Off", "Violet the Organ Grinder", and everything with the cop cap with the chains) — Oh wait. Of course, "Automatic" and his tying to the bed.
"Hurt me" in Irresistible Bitch as well? I don't think SM was such an obsession to him, just an aspect,
otherwise it would have permeate his whole career, and "Dirty Mind" in particular (but it could also be an acquired taste that came later).

Without pretending to be a psychoanalyst, one can assume it is tied to his upbringing.
Whether his relationship with John L., or the 7th Day Adventist Church (a little Wiki just made the "Second Coming" thing finally clear).
As well as the obsession with the number 7... There's a whole thread to be made on the subject!
He was not a member, but the imagery is certainly all over Princeland.

My name is Freud.

Please don't flame me for this question but the last time I watched GB I had the thought that Aura is not even a real person in this movie. She a muse, either for Prince or for Morris, they both 'want' her and that's why they're fighting. It's just a thought....

kingricefan said:

Please don't flame me for this question but the last time I watched GB I had the thought that Aura is not even a real person in this movie. She a muse, either for Prince or for Morris, they both 'want' her and that's why they're fighting. It's just a thought....

I think you are right. Let me add that I see Morris' character as Prince's alter-ego: the choice is whether to chose money
and spend your life in the luxury of a big white Mercedes limo, or seek for the truth.
This ambivalence between going commercial and staying authentic is yet another inner conflict that seems to traverse all of Prince's career.
I'd like to think Prince was smart and talented enough to cash in when it was needed,
only to fund his underground work, the place where his most bold statements could be released without restrain.
Since underground is ethical and spiritually satisfying, but ultimately doesn't pay the bills, he just went back and forth.

kingricefan said:

Please don't flame me for this question but the last time I watched GB I had the thought that Aura is not even a real person in this movie. She a muse, either for Prince or for Morris, they both 'want' her and that's why they're fighting. It's just a thought....

No problem

I think you are asking for all of us lol

I believe Aura was originally to be played by Sheila E

Aura is an Angel, but she is really there

Nobody had/could have sex with her

bonatoc said:

CatB said:

Many people say they don't like the movie as they don't get it. This might be due to the heavy editing but in fact - that movie is Prince.

Hangman, the heart and "LOVE ME" is all Prince and his dark side, some even say his S and M thing.

Prince himself could never ask for (unconditional) love and didn't feel worthy of it. He could put it in song but he let the other one say it.

There was a scene where Ingrid paints a heart on his chest and this heart thing will be picked up again later when he does "Tick Tick Bang". This time the heart on his chest says BEAT ME. It is a nice pun but it is Prince himself asking for just that. And the real Hangman scene is just the same.

Pretty interesting. I never understood the apparent fascination for Prince for SM, I considered it was just a phase ("Gett Off", "Violet the Organ Grinder", and everything with the cop cap with the chains) — Oh wait. Of course, "Automatic" and his tying to the bed.
"Hurt me" in Irresistible Bitch as well? I don't think SM was such an obsession to him, just an aspect,
otherwise it would have permeate his whole career, and "Dirty Mind" in particular (but it could also be an acquired taste that came later).

Without pretending to be a psychoanalyst, one can assume it is tied to his upbringing.
Whether his relationship with John L., or the 7th Day Adventist Church (a little Wiki just made the "Second Coming" thing finally clear).
As well as the obsession with the number 7... There's a whole thread to be made on the subject!
He was not a member, but the imagery is certainly all over Princeland.

My name is Freud.

I agree and I'm glad to see there are people one can discuss that side of Prince and/or his psyche with. I haven't met many who were interested in it or that I could talk about this with but one of his protegées. It seems that most people either really don't get it, or don't "wanna go there", or that they simply don't care for anything but Prince's outer appearance.

This S and M aspect, his shame issue and the deep feeling of being unworthy (clashing with the public Prince who always seemed to know his worth) sure was a result of the mixed messages about religion and sex he grew up with. Children don't learn from what their folks say but what they DO. There was a lot that was fucked up and a lot of confusion.

This IS an interesting thread so far...

OldFriends4Sale said:

kingricefan said:

Please don't flame me for this question but the last time I watched GB I had the thought that Aura is not even a real person in this movie. She a muse, either for Prince or for Morris, they both 'want' her and that's why they're fighting. It's just a thought....

No problem

I think you are asking for all of us lol

I believe Aura was originally to be played by Sheila E

Aura is an Angel, but she is really there

Nobody had/could have sex with her

I'm glad that it was Ingrid who played Aura as it was their story after all - she was the angel that "saved" Prince after Blue Tuesday.

The movie is very honest and very raw and I like its imperfections. I don't care so much for the rivalry thing with Morris again but for the way Prince is being Prince, the child in him that was always there, until the end... looking for his green light and for someone to tell him he's loved for him.

A few minutes spent strollin' on adventist.org gives a canvas and a mindset pretty close
to Prince's... The only thing that the pathetic Reelz documentary got right, I think,
is John L. being strict and scriptures-following in the house, and a womanizer by night. Ain't no such thing as a pious Jazz Club, right?
As for Mattie, I wonder where did they get the Playboy magazines incident, and if it's truly true.

If it's the case, then Magnoli and Blinn nailed John and Mattie, and Prince's turnmoil pretty accurately.
Of course, it's all emphasized drama, an exaggeration, but the basic mechanics are there.
Aside from his astounding talents, what makes Prince a true, genuine artist is the honesty and the public catharsis of his own story he put in his work.

Let me digress on why I think I like "Temptation" so much, and why some may not get it.
First of all, it's the ultimate trash-punk-blues (if such a genre ever existed),
but it's the second part that gives it pure brilliance, which wouldn't make sense without what precede.
It reminds me of the scene in Amadeus, where Salieri is the only one
who understands that the Don Giovanni's (a notorious "sinner") commendatore figure is in reality Leopold (his father), raised from the dead:
"I understood how this bitter old man was still possessing his poor son, even from beyond the grave!".
But, most of all: "Wolfgang had actually summoned up his own father to accuse his son, before all the world. It was terrifying and wonderful to watch".
Now I think the father in question is more God than John L., but it's fascinating how much Prince understood art, cared for it
as a vector for raising the most important questions in one's life.
True sinners sin in awaiting of punishment. Final judgment if you will.

Since we have lived (until now) in a very patriarchic society, it's inevitable that one's father and God the Father mix at some point
in a young mind, even if only subconsciously. If Prince really made peace with his father, like the Rolling Stone 1985 interview suggest,
then more credit to him to continue in this vein, exploring man's inner conflicts, just to share with his audience
and raise a mirror in front of everyone, like asking if what he went through is universal or not.

Eternal thanks to Bernadette for providing the other side of the coin, the feminity strength.
When Doves Cry is "just" a blatant, litteral exposure of Prince's dichotomies and religious beliefs.
It takes balls and lots of wit. The Artist indeed.

CatB said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

No problem

I think you are asking for all of us lol

I believe Aura was originally to be played by Sheila E

Aura is an Angel, but she is really there

Nobody had/could have sex with her

I'm glad that it was Ingrid who played Aura as it was their story after all - she was the angel that "saved" Prince after Blue Tuesday.

The movie is very honest and very raw and I like its imperfections. I don't care so much for the rivalry thing with Morris again but for the way Prince is being Prince, the child in him that was always there, until the end... looking for his green light and for someone to tell him he's loved for him.

Actually before Ingrid, the first group of people was Prince Cat Sheila E & Madonna w/Mavis Staples

But I believe the story line had changed maybe 4 times. So the GB released was probably more the story of Prince & Ingrid.

http://prince.org/msg/7/433074

"GRAFFITI BRIDGE"

2nd Draft
November 26, 1989

Graffiti Bridge

A series of dissolves finds the Kid taking Aura to his club
onto the stage and down the trap door to his bedroom. There he
tucks her very cozily into his bed. Another dissolve and the
morning light shines in through the ceiling. Aura stirs a
bit waking the Kid who is asleep at the foot of the bed. He
crawls on the bed until he is directly over Aura. Her eyes
open. She is even prettier to him the morning after.

Aura
I'll fall in love with the 1st face I see.

The Kid smiles and crawls off the bed and picks up a heart
shaped pad, where he draws a hangman. He has already marked
off for empty spaces reserved for letters. Aura, like a child
gets excited at this game. She loses and the Kid "Hangs" her
and fills in the blanks. He shows her the word. It says --
"Mine."

Aura (puzzled)
What?

The Kid points to Aura then to the word on the pad.

Aura
No Baby.

She points to the sky.

Aura
His.

Rising from the bed she starts to look around.

Aura
So, which way out?

The Kid points up. Aura heads up the ladder then she climbs
back down, goes over to the Kid and exposes her breast to him.
He reaches out but she turns and leaves him. Up the ladder
she goes and heads out of the place. She turns back and
reaches out to him but then quickly turns back and leaves.
The door barely closes when the Angel walks in. She walks
behind the stools that are stacked upon the tables. The Kid
notices something over her shoulder. When she climbs up to
the balcony, he sees what it is. A rope with a noose! She
is dropping the noose over the support beam and directly in
front of his face. They look for a second at one another and
the Kid knows that he has to obey. He places the noose around
his neck. The Angel whips out a magic marker and makes for
dashes on the wall. She points to the Kid who takes his 1st
guess.

The Kid
"A"

The Angel shakes her head no and yanks on the rope to make the
noose tighter. The Kid coughs, and guesses again.

The Kid
"B"

Another wrong guess and the Angel kicks a chair over to him.
He reluctantly stands on it. She taps the wall fiercely
signalling the Kid to try again.

The Kid
"C"

Nope. This time the Angel goes over to the Kid and shakes her
head no. The Kid is angry. He doesn't like this game.

The Kid (shouting)
"D"

With that final wrong guess the Angel kicks the chair from
under the Kid and his feet dangel and he begins to choke.
Violently he grabs for the noose to free himself. The Angel
gives him the chair so that he can loosen the noose and get
free. She pulls the rope from the foundation and using it as
a leash takes the Kid over to the four empty spaces and fills
them in. She writes:

M -- I -- N -- E

Returning her marker to her back pocket she leads the Kid, by
the rope, out the back to the white wall. He can't believe
his eyes. All the lyrics have washed away. She dips the
brush and hands it to him. She points to the wall for him to
begin again. He obeys.

that hangman scene was kinda weird

ufoclub said:

Aura is straight up gangsta, putting The Kid through some kind of Stockholm hoop night that deleted scene.

early "fight club" thing

where be the rest of the outtake footage???

OldFriends4Sale said:

http://prince.org/msg/7/433074

"GRAFFITI BRIDGE"

2nd Draft
November 26, 1989

Graffiti Bridge

A series of dissolves finds the Kid taking Aura to his club
onto the stage and down the trap door to his bedroom. There he
tucks her very cozily into his bed. Another dissolve and the
morning light shines in through the ceiling. Aura stirs a
bit waking the Kid who is asleep at the foot of the bed. He
crawls on the bed until he is directly over Aura. Her eyes
open. She is even prettier to him the morning after.

Aura
I'll fall in love with the 1st face I see.

The Kid smiles and crawls off the bed and picks up a heart
shaped pad, where he draws a hangman. He has already marked
off for empty spaces reserved for letters. Aura, like a child
gets excited at this game. She loses and the Kid "Hangs" her
and fills in the blanks. He shows her the word. It says --
"Mine."

Aura (puzzled)
What?

The Kid points to Aura then to the word on the pad.

Aura
No Baby.

She points to the sky.

Aura
His.

Rising from the bed she starts to look around.

Aura
So, which way out?

The Kid points up. Aura heads up the ladder then she climbs
back down, goes over to the Kid and exposes her breast to him.
He reaches out but she turns and leaves him. Up the ladder
she goes and heads out of the place. She turns back and
reaches out to him but then quickly turns back and leaves.
The door barely closes when the Angel walks in. She walks
behind the stools that are stacked upon the tables. The Kid
notices something over her shoulder. When she climbs up to
the balcony, he sees what it is. A rope with a noose! She
is dropping the noose over the support beam and directly in
front of his face. They look for a second at one another and
the Kid knows that he has to obey. He places the noose around
his neck. The Angel whips out a magic marker and makes for
dashes on the wall. She points to the Kid who takes his 1st
guess.

The Kid
"A"

The Angel shakes her head no and yanks on the rope to make the
noose tighter. The Kid coughs, and guesses again.

The Kid
"B"

Another wrong guess and the Angel kicks a chair over to him.
He reluctantly stands on it. She taps the wall fiercely
signalling the Kid to try again.

The Kid
"C"

Nope. This time the Angel goes over to the Kid and shakes her
head no. The Kid is angry. He doesn't like this game.

The Kid (shouting)
"D"

With that final wrong guess the Angel kicks the chair from
under the Kid and his feet dangel and he begins to choke.
Violently he grabs for the noose to free himself. The Angel
gives him the chair so that he can loosen the noose and get
free. She pulls the rope from the foundation and using it as
a leash takes the Kid over to the four empty spaces and fills
them in. She writes:

M -- I -- N -- E

Returning her marker to her back pocket she leads the Kid, by
the rope, out the back to the white wall. He can't believe
his eyes. All the lyrics have washed away. She dips the
brush and hands it to him. She points to the wall for him to
begin again. He obeys.

Where do you come up with all this stuff, OldFriend?

ufoclub said:

Aura is straight up gangsta, putting The Kid through some kind of Stockholm hoop night in that deleted scene.

yeah,she really is