laytonian said:

chucktown1 said:

Did anyone see Autopsy on Reelz? Here is what the medical examiner speculates what happened to P: When P got that shot of Narcam in Moline, it wiped out all traces of pain killers in his system. Even though P told Judith & others that he was gonna get help for his addiction & kick the habit, the pain came back & he simply relapsed. The pain once again was too much & he took what he thought was an opiod but it was laced with a lethal amount of fentanyl. No one knows where he got it from but when you buy opiods off the street, (or on-line) it's like playing russian roulette. You don't know what you are gonna get.

. CO-SIGN. It's not all that complicated. . He was prescribed opioids, got cut off or found it easier to get them through alternate means. He didn't realize that it was cheaper for the black market to load the pills with fentanyl. One aeticle said only a few pills tested for that. Gulping 4-6 of what he thought was hydro would be the massive overdose He had pills "on him" when found. Not just in him. He had grabbed them from somewhere. Were they handed to him on 4/20? .

I doubt he got "cut off" so much as "not being able to get as many as his addiction/pain level required any more". When they rescheduled these drugs to level 2, a LOT of shit hit the fan for legit patients and it led directly to a sever spike in heroin usage and street level counterfeits.

leadline said:

Bad chronic pain since the narrative was created, and like everything else spewed by the media, it was eatin up instantly by the masses wihtout question, and the chonic pain train has been running full speed ever since. #sheep #lemmings

EDIT:

Can u elaborate on what u mean here? I think I may have misunderstood you.

[Edited 9/30/17 12:33pm]

leadline said:

stuff

Sheila barely saw Prince over the years, and if he was hopped up on pain killers, in general, or, for their performances together, well, she would have never seen him in pain. So that kills the addiction idea, if she saw him in pain, he was clearly not poppin pills, conversly, if he was poppin pills, she would have never known he was in pain. So she has zero credibility.

Not true.

You can take these things and STILL be in pain (most people usually are), you just get to the point where it becomes managable instead of debilitating, especially if it's back/nerve/hip related. It ALWAYS hurts. The drugs make it so you can function, not entirely deaden your nerve endings to where you could stab yourself in the arm or something and not feel it. Your root canal will STILL hurt but NOT AS MUCH.

You can be on vicodin and feel pain from a bee sting. Trust me. I know.

Hydro takes the pain from an 8 or a 9 down to a 3 or a 4 is all.

herb4 said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

herb4 said:

If it were a suicide, why wouldn't Prince have eaten like 50 of the things instead of the one he somehow "knew" to be laced?

He didn't commit suicide and he was not murdered. He took a counterfeit pill accidentally which he probably procured through nefarious means as his addiction and tolerance rose and as the DEA and regulators made getting these things harder and harder, leading to him seeking pills elsewhere. Obviously he couldn't tell the bullshit ones from the legit ones by looking at them.

You can make it complicated if you feel like it but it's really not. To me anyway.

Occam's Razor and all that.

As to how long he'd been taking them, I have no idea but I'd guess 10 years at the very least. Plenty of time to gradually build up a tolerance and a dependence and, truthfully, I'd estimate it was closer to 15 or 20. Personally, I'd put the "sever pain" time stamp right around the time he stopped wearing the heels and switched to sandles and platform sneakers. Becasue he wore those heels all the time, for decades, even when playing hoops as I understand it.

Seems like logical evidence that something changed around then. Any woman will tell you that heels are very uncomfortable.

Vicodin does not make you nod out, miss work, stumble around, drool, pass out, etc. either. At least for most people it doesn't when taken as prescribed. Someone can easily take 10-30 mg a day without any noticable side effects or change in behavior. One of the most noticable side effects, however, is forgetting things, meandering somewhat and the inability to concentrate on one thing consistently. Sounds about right for Prince.

He changed his mind constantly and abandoned projects and ideas all the time.

I don't think we're through the proverbial looking glass here in any sense, at least as far as discovering deeper hidden truths about his death.

Any time in your life when you have ever said "wow, that was surprising" proves that Occam's Razor proves nothing. Yes, the likelihood it was an accident based on what we know, is probably true, but that does not mean it is true, the most common explanation is not always the truth. What you say makes sense, what others say also makes sense...we do not know anything for certain...

Except the entire point of Occam's Razor is that usually the simplest explanation IS the correct one. "Wow, that was surprising" is the exception, not the rule, by definition. So, no. I believe you're argying in bad faith or misunderstanding what "normally" means..

The fact is, that "WOW, that was surprising" works in favor of the argument that "the simplest explanation is usually the correct one" becasue the end result of something being unusual is typically suprise.

I'm applying the razor only in opposition to many of the wild ideas I've read here and so many of the "what ifs?", because the more complicated they get the less likely they are to be true. Certainly, if I learned that Prince was murdered or offed himself, yes, I would be genuinely shocked and surprised becasue it would be unusual, given what we can see, which supports what the razor advocates.

For instance, looking back on the things in my post you glossed over, for anyone suggesting suicide, one would have to ask themselves why Prince wouldn't take ALL the pills he had laying around instead of just that one?

Also, like I mentioned, the footwear. Prince didn't go anywhere for close to 30 years without the spike heels and we all know he loved wearing them. Somewhere around 2000, he was wearing socks and sandles for sound checks and only broke out the heels for shows or public appearances. Even then, he was wearing PLATFORM SNEAKERS a lot, which suggests to me that he wanted the look without the discomfort - implying he was in pain.

Every explanation and assertion I've read about "SO MANY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS" and shit like that consitently feels like a reach to me. I can't PROVE anything, no, but that hardly makes EVERY SCENARIO and IDEA equally as likely to be true either.

herb4 said:

^^^Fair enough^^^

And, of course, ANYTHING is possible. I think we know enough about what happened, at least in the broadest sense (I feel like I do anyway) and I feel comfortable thinking that we have at least 95% or so of the story, which is usually enough for me to draw confident conclusions, otherwise I'd be perpetually paralyzed with uncertainty about anything and everything.

The wilder suppositions I keep reading feel like a tremendous longshot to me and I haven't read anything substantial enough that anyone's offered to grant them any sort of serious consideration in a way that adds up for me. They all seem to be "well, it's possible that this or the other...", but it's possible that I'm only dreaming right now and not really making this post also.

It's just highly unlikely.

If I'm reading some of you right, you're saying that since Prince was unusual, so the usual rules do not apply, ergo: the chance of something out of the ordinary is more likely. Is that correct?

I can see that angle and entertain the possibility but, ultimately, we're all human and I think a LOT of what Prince cultivated was illusion built from purple smoke and peach tinted paisley etched mirrors so we tend to think of him as super human. I'm not suggesting that he was a phony (Not at ALL. He was singularly unique and brilliant), merely making the case that what he allowed to be projected or known was so selectively shared, and what WAS shared was usually centered around whatever made him look as cool as possible or showcased his otherwordly talent, that it was almost impossible to really KNOW him, and that what we were allowed to SEE was largely what he WANTED us to.

He seemed to want it that way and I can't say that I blame him. We all want the world to see our best side. We're ALL like that. He was just better at it than most of us are. He was better at most things than we are and I appluad the hell out of him for creating and carving out a life and a world of his own where he hardly had to answer to anyone and could do what he wished.

Who wouldn't want that? But who has the balls and the skill?

But he was human and often metnioned in his interviews how he was "just like everybody else" and never thought of himself as weird or different. It's hard to perceive him that way but he cultivated such an iconic image and was so driven doing it. He had his own fucking logo for crying out loud.

I think he was in a lot pain; physically as well as emotionally. Opioids also numb mental anguish - for most people anyway - and quite often induce euphoria in the user, enhancing a sense of well being, self assuredness and confidence while reducing inhibition. They can oddly give you energy since they relieve you of your tension and have a calming effect, particularly in social settings.

Sound like anyone you know?

There's a reason these things are addictive and their power does not discriminate between the famous and the infamous, nor the rich from the poor. The common from the sublime.

Shit...I didn't mean to rant like that.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Fentanyl is THE go to drug in hospitals for sedation and pain relief because it's cheap and works the way docs want it to...quick for pain...back to consciousness quickly after sedation for surgery...it's so common and popular that even if you ask for another drug, they often won't accomodate you. It's also considered one of the top 'essential drugs' that must be maintained in hospital drug inventories.

Please stop this constant mythologizing implying that Fentanyl is so exotic or automatically deadly that P was murdered, slipped a hot pill or didn't know what he was taking.

He knew. He liked it.

Yup, I believe he knew fentanyl was in those pills, not just opiates in general. Dr Drew claimed it said on the bag 'contains fentanyl'. Don't know if that's been corroborated, but factor in the fact that he had OD'd less than a week before, and the amount of fentanyl allegedly in his bloodstream post-mortem, and the 'accident' theory becomes harder to believe. Even if it were an accident, he well knew the risks.

all things considered, i hope we don't have a JFK assasination like debacle going on here. a few months ago i began looking into the jfk stuff trying to find an answer, the shit is addicting, i watched hours of persuasive arguements both ways, looked at evidence that didn't make sense, heard so many contradictory stories, by the end of it I had to stop because it was too maddening. I concluded we'll never know because so many of the participants are dead and whatever evidence we have has been handled by so many jackasses since then. I tend to lean towards the warren commision and oswald being the lone assasin but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

fortuneandserendipity said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Fentanyl is THE go to drug in hospitals for sedation and pain relief because it's cheap and works the way docs want it to...quick for pain...back to consciousness quickly after sedation for surgery...it's so common and popular that even if you ask for another drug, they often won't accomodate you. It's also considered one of the top 'essential drugs' that must be maintained in hospital drug inventories.

Please stop this constant mythologizing implying that Fentanyl is so exotic or automatically deadly that P was murdered, slipped a hot pill or didn't know what he was taking.

He knew. He liked it.

Yup, I believe he knew fentanyl was in those pills, not just opiates in general. Dr Drew claimed it said on the bag 'contains fentanyl'. Don't know if that's been corroborated, but factor in the fact that he had OD'd less than a week before, and the amount of fentanyl allegedly in his bloodstream post-mortem, and the 'accident' theory becomes harder to believe. Even if it were an accident, he well knew the risks.

If that was true he would have had patches of Fentanyl lying around.

He didn't.

Also long term use would have shown in the toxicology screen .

It didn't.

Showed only Fentanyl use was on April 20/21.

Someone said that the simplest answer is the truth.

Simplest answer here is that someone gave him these pills in Atlanta because they showed up supposedly in his bags from the Atlanta trip that were still packed 5 days later. Well the investigation started in Atlanta........ nothing there no counterfeit Watson tablets killing folk in Atlanta. Let's go to Minn. ..... Still no Watson's killing people.

DEA goes into PP looking for computer information yet damn near 2 years later nothing found.

Kirk Johnson and Dr. S may have been getting percocet to Prince but that's not what killed him and you can't link these pills back to anyone in the area.

PeteSilas said:

all things considered, i hope we don't have a JFK assasination like debacle going on here. a few months ago i began looking into the jfk stuff trying to find an answer, the shit is addicting, i watched hours of persuasive arguements both ways, looked at evidence that didn't make sense, heard so many contradictory stories, by the end of it I had to stop because it was too maddening. I concluded we'll never know because so many of the participants are dead and whatever evidence we have has been handled by so many jackasses since then. I tend to lean towards the warren commision and oswald being the lone assasin but I wouldn't bet my life on it.

No JFK here .

Just another drug addicted rock star...... nothing to see here .

the pills in his luggage may have been given to him in Atlanta from someone whose base of operations or area in which they sold was not Atlanta. After all, P was an international rock star.

PLus are we sure the suitcase was unpacked from the previous trip? Is it possible it was packed for a later trip or just a place where he kept his stash so no one looked inside. Maybe he had his stash hidden somewhere at PP and then took it out once Kirk and Meron left and put it in there to hide. since we have no idea when he purchased those pills (and law enforcement indicated that Watson 385 were not being made anymore 'legitimately', is it possible he had this stash for a while and P's inner circle didn't realize he had anything left on sight other than the anti-anxiety pills and anti-nausea medicine when they left on the 20th..

Something that people havent' looked into with much detail is how much involvement kirk and Meron had with P on the days and nights of April 15th, 16th, 17th, and the 18th? The focus is always on the 20th and 21th. But who knows how much intervention (subtlely or not subtely) was attempted in those previous days. Seriously, do people know all that went down ? Is it possible that after 4 or 5 days of promises made by P and pamphlets and phone calls that they put an exhausted P to bed with an anti-anxiety pill and an anti-nausea pill at 8 pm on April 20th thinking they had done everything that could be done until a doctor came. Only for P to awaken around 2 am, turn off all cameras etc, pull out his old stash and pop the dangerous pills he had hidden, stumble to the elevator when he got spooked by what he had just done and then die extremely quickly in the elevator. . Sorry for all the benefits of the doubt. I realize that enabling is common place in that lifestyle but facilitating and callous indifference seems odd considering that the same dude (accused of enabling or maybe even killing him) landed a plane to save P's life and carried him to the EMT folks, called a pain/drug addiction specialist and lasted for 30 years with him. .

muleFunk said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Yup, I believe he knew fentanyl was in those pills, not just opiates in general. Dr Drew claimed it said on the bag 'contains fentanyl'. Don't know if that's been corroborated, but factor in the fact that he had OD'd less than a week before, and the amount of fentanyl allegedly in his bloodstream post-mortem, and the 'accident' theory becomes harder to believe. Even if it were an accident, he well knew the risks.

If that was true he would have had patches of Fentanyl lying around.

He didn't.

Also long term use would have shown in the toxicology screen .

It didn't.

Showed only Fentanyl use was on April 20/21.

Someone said that the simplest answer is the truth.

Simplest answer here is that someone gave him these pills in Atlanta because they showed up supposedly in his bags from the Atlanta trip that were still packed 5 days later. Well the investigation started in Atlanta........ nothing there no counterfeit Watson tablets killing folk in Atlanta. Let's go to Minn. ..... Still no Watson's killing people.

DEA goes into PP looking for computer information yet damn near 2 years later nothing found.

Kirk Johnson and Dr. S may have been getting percocet to Prince but that's not what killed him and you can't link these pills back to anyone in the area.

[Edited 10/1/17 7:32am]

[Edited 10/1/17 7:53am]

[Edited 10/1/17 7:57am]

"Toxicology results revealed Prince's blood fentanyl level measured 67.8 milligrams. Three is considered fatal by experts. His liver fentanyl level topped 435 milligrams. Anything above 69 is toxic, according to investigators. And his gastric fentanyl registered at 14,000, an extraordinarily high amount, and more than his 112-pound body could handle, according to sources."

KTSP May 21,2017

In researching I discovered that in normal OD cases 20 milligrams is considered high in fatal cases. Prince had 67.

The gastric tests showed off the charts. This is what sent alarm bells ringing with DEA.

They looked worldwide for similar cases and found nothing.

then why did the autospy report state that it was an accidental overdose? Why didn't they rule it as foul play or suicide??

Maybe, Stevie Nicks was right. Maybe that night, P made a rash decision alone at 2 am when he figured out that the only way to get better was to change his entire life so he committed suicide by grabbing what he thought was a handful of hydrocodone... Maybe the levels were so high because he thought he was committing suicide with hydrocodone not fenanyl. I know I am going out of my way to let Kirk off the hook but his other behavior doesn't jell with someone who would kill Prince. Maybe, the reason the estate and associates are being so quiet is that they don't want to say Prince killed himself. Look at how Stevie was called out for her reasonable speculation.

muleFunk said:

"Toxicology results revealed Prince's blood fentanyl level measured 67.8 milligrams. Three is considered fatal by experts. His liver fentanyl level topped 435 milligrams. Anything above 69 is toxic, according to investigators. And his gastric fentanyl registered at 14,000, an extraordinarily high amount, and more than his 112-pound body could handle, according to sources."

KTSP May 21,2017

In researching I discovered that in normal OD cases 20 milligrams is considered high in fatal cases. Prince had 67.

The gastric tests showed off the charts. This is what sent alarm bells ringing with DEA.

They looked worldwide for similar cases and found nothing.

[Edited 10/1/17 7:42am]

muleFunk said:

If that was true he would have had patches of Fentanyl lying around.

He didn't.

Also long term use would have shown in the toxicology screen .

It didn't.

Showed only Fentanyl use was on April 20/21.

Someone said that the simplest answer is the truth.

Simplest answer here is that someone gave him these pills in Atlanta because they showed up supposedly in his bags from the Atlanta trip that were still packed 5 days later. Well the investigation started in Atlanta........ nothing there no counterfeit Watson tablets killing folk in Atlanta. Let's go to Minn. ..... Still no Watson's killing people.

DEA goes into PP looking for computer information yet damn near 2 years later nothing found.

Kirk Johnson and Dr. S may have been getting percocet to Prince but that's not what killed him and you can't link these pills back to anyone in the area.

He wouldn't have had to have patches laying around, that simply is not true.

It didn't show in the tox screen because they gave him 2 shots of Narcan on the tarmac.

He could have had those pills in his bag that was packed FOR Atlanta.

purplerabbithole said:

then why did the autospy report state that it was an accidental overdose? Why didn't they rule it as foul play or suicide??

Maybe, Stevie Nicks was right. Maybe that night, P made a rash decision alone at 2 am when he figured out that the only way to get better was to change his entire life so he committed suicide by grabbing what he thought was a handful of hydrocodone... Maybe the levels were so high because he thought he was committing suicide with hydrocodone not fenanyl. I know I am going out of my way to let Kirk off the hook but his other behavior doesn't jell with someone who would kill Prince. Maybe, the reason the estate and associates are being so quiet is that they don't want to say Prince killed himself. Look at how Stevie was called out for her reasonable speculation.

[Edited 10/1/17 7:42am]

Stevie hadn't seen the man in over 30 years. Stevie doesn't know anymore then the rest of us. Prince's family isn't too happy with Stevie. The ME said it was an accidental overdose not suicide. Normally with suicide there are signs, like notes, giving stuff away, depression, etc. that's what led her to her conclusion.

purplerabbithole said:

Maybe, Stevie Nicks was right. Maybe that night, P made a rash decision alone at 2 am when he figured out that the only way to get better was to change his entire life so he committed suicide by grabbing what he thought was a handful of hydrocodone... Maybe the levels were so high because he thought he was committing suicide with hydrocodone not fenanyl. I know I am going out of my way to let Kirk off the hook but his other behavior doesn't jell with someone who would kill Prince. Maybe, the reason the estate and associates are being so quiet is that they don't want to say Prince killed himself. Look at how Stevie was called out for her reasonable speculation.

[Edited 10/1/17 7:42am]

I agree with the bold above. I have read somewhere and I think it's been mentioned on the org also, that P was getting more and more agitated between April 16th and April 20th. Something has happened during those few days even if he went out and had the party at PP on the 16th.

I also think that the family and associates would not say anything about suicide because of stigma among other things. And remember Kurt Cobain and all the commotion, fascination and controversy his death has prompted over the world. P would not have wanted that for himself nor his family for that matter.

PennyPurple said:

muleFunk said:

If that was true he would have had patches of Fentanyl lying around.

He didn't.

Also long term use would have shown in the toxicology screen .

It didn't.

Showed only Fentanyl use was on April 20/21.

Someone said that the simplest answer is the truth.

Simplest answer here is that someone gave him these pills in Atlanta because they showed up supposedly in his bags from the Atlanta trip that were still packed 5 days later. Well the investigation started in Atlanta........ nothing there no counterfeit Watson tablets killing folk in Atlanta. Let's go to Minn. ..... Still no Watson's killing people.

DEA goes into PP looking for computer information yet damn near 2 years later nothing found.

Kirk Johnson and Dr. S may have been getting percocet to Prince but that's not what killed him and you can't link these pills back to anyone in the area.

He wouldn't have had to have patches laying around, that simply is not true.

It didn't show in the tox screen because they gave him 2 shots of Narcan on the tarmac.

He could have had those pills in his bag that was packed FOR Atlanta.

According to the M.E. that is my best friend it would have shown in the screening that was done post mortem .

The Narcan shot would remove drug effects out of the system but it still shows that you have it in your body.

Her not hanging out with P for 30 years doesn't mean she couldn't have guessed correctly. Suicide does make a lot of sense. She was speaking from the rationale of someone who understands the pressure of a rock star.

As for common behaviors associated with suicide, Prince obviously wasn't typical and his state of mind was not necessarily rational that night. He was capable of rash behavior sometimes. The dude bulldozed his own house.

PennyPurple said:

purplerabbithole said:

then why did the autospy report state that it was an accidental overdose? Why didn't they rule it as foul play or suicide??

Maybe, Stevie Nicks was right. Maybe that night, P made a rash decision alone at 2 am when he figured out that the only way to get better was to change his entire life so he committed suicide by grabbing what he thought was a handful of hydrocodone... Maybe the levels were so high because he thought he was committing suicide with hydrocodone not fenanyl. I know I am going out of my way to let Kirk off the hook but his other behavior doesn't jell with someone who would kill Prince. Maybe, the reason the estate and associates are being so quiet is that they don't want to say Prince killed himself. Look at how Stevie was called out for her reasonable speculation.

[Edited 10/1/17 7:42am]

Stevie hadn't seen the man in over 30 years. Stevie doesn't know anymore then the rest of us. Prince's family isn't too happy with Stevie. The ME said it was an accidental overdose not suicide. Normally with suicide there are signs, like notes, giving stuff away, depression, etc. that's what led her to her conclusion.

News reports are everywhere about police officers coming into contact with this stuff and getting sick.

If he was taking pills from these tainted bottles he would have OD a lot sooner than he did. The report from May 21 is a klaxon horn going off in this case.

PennyPurple said:

Prince didn't commit suicide.

purplerabbithole said:

Her not hanging out with P for 30 years doesn't mean she couldn't have guessed correctly. Suicide does make a lot of sense. She was speaking from the rationale of someone who understands the pressure of a rock star.

As for common behaviors associated with suicide, Prince obviously wasn't typical and his state of mind was not necessarily rational that night. He was capable of rash behavior sometimes. The dude bulldozed his own house.

PennyPurple said:

Stevie hadn't seen the man in over 30 years. Stevie doesn't know anymore then the rest of us. Prince's family isn't too happy with Stevie. The ME said it was an accidental overdose not suicide. Normally with suicide there are signs, like notes, giving stuff away, depression, etc. that's what led her to her conclusion.

Explain how your M.E best friend knows this? And who do you assume killed prince--because I imagine you think someone killed him?

ALso, is the medical examiner friend on this case?

muleFunk said:

Prince didn't commit suicide.

purplerabbithole said:

Her not hanging out with P for 30 years doesn't mean she couldn't have guessed correctly. Suicide does make a lot of sense. She was speaking from the rationale of someone who understands the pressure of a rock star.

As for common behaviors associated with suicide, Prince obviously wasn't typical and his state of mind was not necessarily rational that night. He was capable of rash behavior sometimes. The dude bulldozed his own house.

PennyPurple said:

purplerabbithole said:

then why did the autospy report state that it was an accidental overdose? Why didn't they rule it as foul play or suicide??

Maybe, Stevie Nicks was right. Maybe that night, P made a rash decision alone at 2 am when he figured out that the only way to get better was to change his entire life so he committed suicide by grabbing what he thought was a handful of hydrocodone... Maybe the levels were so high because he thought he was committing suicide with hydrocodone not fenanyl. I know I am going out of my way to let Kirk off the hook but his other behavior doesn't jell with someone who would kill Prince. Maybe, the reason the estate and associates are being so quiet is that they don't want to say Prince killed himself. Look at how Stevie was called out for her reasonable speculation.

[Edited 10/1/17 7:42am]

Stevie hadn't seen the man in over 30 years. Stevie doesn't know anymore then the rest of us. Prince's family isn't too happy with Stevie. The ME said it was an accidental overdose not suicide. Normally with suicide there are signs, like notes, giving stuff away, depression, etc. that's what led her to her conclusion.

IMO, the absence of a suicide note gave the ME a fig leaf to hide behind when she ruled the death accidental. I believe she did this after intense lobbying by the family and compassion for the family...and the home town hero.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

PennyPurple said:

Stevie hadn't seen the man in over 30 years. Stevie doesn't know anymore then the rest of us. Prince's family isn't too happy with Stevie. The ME said it was an accidental overdose not suicide. Normally with suicide there are signs, like notes, giving stuff away, depression, etc. that's what led her to her conclusion.

Based on the medical information we know about the autopsy, I think undetermined would have been a more accurate conclusion. But maybe there were other things not disclosed that led to the accidental determination, or maybe it was suggested that accidental would be a preferred determination, again who knows? Or maybe because there were no signs that suggest someone forced him to take the pills, and he took them of his own free will, that accidental death is the normal determination. Just seems almost impossible for her to know weather he took them on purpose, or if it was an accident, or if his normal pills had been switched purposefully...which is why i think undetermined is a more accurate conclusion

He took at pill that he THOUGHT was Vicodin and it actually had Fentanyl and the Fentanyl was enough to have killed him. That's how this death was labeled accidental.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

PennyPurple said:

Stevie hadn't seen the man in over 30 years. Stevie doesn't know anymore then the rest of us. Prince's family isn't too happy with Stevie. The ME said it was an accidental overdose not suicide. Normally with suicide there are signs, like notes, giving stuff away, depression, etc. that's what led her to her conclusion.

Based on the medical information we know about the autopsy, I think undetermined would have been a more accurate conclusion. But maybe there were other things not disclosed that led to the accidental determination, or maybe it was suggested that accidental would be a preferred determination, again who knows? Or maybe because there were no signs that suggest someone forced him to take the pills, and he took them of his own free will, that accidental death is the normal determination. Just seems almost impossible for her to know weather he took them on purpose, or if it was an accident, or if his normal pills had been switched purposefully...which is why i think undetermined is a more accurate conclusion

I agree 1000 per cent....and I wouldn't be surprised if this ruling were some day to be revised or amended. I think it was a bad call...driven by emotion.

How do you and your M.E friend know it was one pill? How would you or your ME friend know what Prince knew or didn't know about what he was taking?

muleFunk said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

PennyPurple said: Based on the medical information we know about the autopsy, I think undetermined would have been a more accurate conclusion. But maybe there were other things not disclosed that led to the accidental determination, or maybe it was suggested that accidental would be a preferred determination, again who knows? Or maybe because there were no signs that suggest someone forced him to take the pills, and he took them of his own free will, that accidental death is the normal determination. Just seems almost impossible for her to know weather he took them on purpose, or if it was an accident, or if his normal pills had been switched purposefully...which is why i think undetermined is a more accurate conclusion

He took at pill that he THOUGHT was Vicodin and it actually had Fentanyl and the Fentanyl was enough to have killed him. That's how this death was labeled accidental.

[Edited 10/1/17 9:10am]

The contents were not dissolved.

They didn't find multiple pills in his stomach.

Yeah, I doubt very highly that Prince ever intentionally took fentanyl.

And before anyone starts, no, I don't think anyone slipped it to him either. Sounds like he was masking his addcition by placing pills in vitamin and Alleve bottles (which is common for addicts) and, since they all appeared the same, couldn't recognize the fake ones. The drug tests seem to bare this out becasue if he was a regular user, it would have shown up.

However, to whoever it was that suggested the Narcan shot would have wiped out a positive test: no it wouldn't. It doesn't work like that and only alleviates the effects of an opioid OD. It's not a magic shot that flushes all signs of drugs out of your body and if anything it seems it'd make a positive drug test MORE likely.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/will-narcan-make-a-urine-drug-screen-negative.899036/

https://www.justanswer.co...ative.html