Pretty new....

I dont like the way they are going about this at all.....

Leave it all up there until you have options for us...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rogifan said:

Is this new? I’ve seen NPG, Web Sheriff and Comerica before but not this.

Lovejunky said:

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:

--I think this just shows up when YouTube gets too many complaints about copyright infringement on a person's channel. The truth is that UMG is suppose to be on top of this and they need to earn their keep. It is bad enough no one is doing anything about bootleg t-shirts and shower curtains with his face and symbol.

I know what the complaint is for and why videos are removed. My point was this is the first time I’ve seen Estate of Prince Rogers Nelson. I’ve seen other ones that reference Comerica Bank or NPG Music. I wonder who is filing claims for Estate of Prince Rogers Nelson?

The administator of the estate Comerica. The have a duty to shut this stuff down. The are being overseen by the court and I think they are doing a much better job then UMG or whatever the hell Breamer was suppose to be doing.

rogifan said:

Hmm...I saw on Facebook that apparently Paisley Park is going after sellers on Etsy. Not exactly sure what all they’re going after but I hope this means the Estate is ramping up their own merchandising efforts.

People who are infringing on copyrighted material or trademarks and I hope they sell better merchandise as well but that has nothing to do with the vultures making money off of trademarked materials or Prince's image.

rogifan said:

Hmm...I saw on Facebook that apparently Paisley Park is going after sellers on Etsy. Not exactly sure what all they’re going after but I hope this means the Estate is ramping up their own merchandising efforts.

I'm glad to hear that.

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:

People who are infringing on copyrighted material or trademarks and I hope they sell better merchandise as well but that has nothing to do with the vultures making money off of trademarked materials or Prince's image.

It does because people wouldn’t be going to Etsy if there was a vibrant official merchandising market.

The estate is not getting any money from Etsy so it the continuation of this does not matter to them.

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:

The estate is not getting any money from Etsy so it the continuation of this does not matter to them.

I have no idea what you’re talking about. My point is with more official merchandise being accessible (and to more countries) the market for unofficial merchandise will start to dry up.

The market will not dry up. Paisley Park is taking exhibits on the road and I sure they will selling things. The estate gets no money from someone pasting Prince's face on a shower curtian and their is a merchandise deal with UMG already in place.

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:

The estate is not getting any money from Etsy so it the continuation of this does not matter to them.

I have no idea what you’re talking about. My point is with more official merchandise being accessible (and to more countries) the market for unofficial merchandise will start to dry up.

I agree with you. I thought a while back UMG signed a seperate deal for merchandising. I am not quite sure on what is going on with that. Perhaps with all the legal headaches with the Estate, merchadising it slow. I know that the few items that have been put out from PP seem nice (books, guitars). But this needs to be marketed on a global scale and with various discretionary income levels. Unofficial merchandise will be in demand until there is some form of competition to decline it. Taking down the suppliers is one step, but the Estate must provide a demand simultaneously. If not, someone will just step in the place.

I am not a Kiss fan, but they seemed to have the knack for merchandising.

nelcp777 said:

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said: I have no idea what you’re talking about. My point is with more official merchandise being accessible (and to more countries) the market for unofficial merchandise will start to dry up.

I agree with you. I thought a while back UMG signed a seperate deal for merchandising. I am not quite sure on what is going on with that. Perhaps with all the legal headaches with the Estate, merchadising it slow. I know that the few items that have been put out from PP seem nice (books, guitars). But this needs to be marketed on a global scale and with various discretionary income levels. Unofficial merchandise will be in demand until there is some form of competition to decline it. Taking down the suppliers is one step, but the Estate must provide a demand simultaneously. If not, someone will just step in the place.

I am not a Kiss fan, but they seemed to have the knack for merchandising.

There is a merchandising deal with an arm of UMG. They have a few shirts out which are nothing special I suspect that deal might interfere somewhat with what Graceland/Paisley Park can do but remember Prince was the one that cut ties with UMG and maybe we now know why.

I believe merchandise will be sold on the tour and I also believe that estate might have a problem with Prince's face being plastered on shower curtins some merchandise the estate may just feel is tacky.

I think it is too bad the deal was signed with UMG Prince had a few artist who designed really nice shirts and the estate could have just put those out to sell. What a waste but maybe when the UMG ends they can find a better merchandiser.

Ive been meaning to weigh in on this at length, but have been time poor..

I am struck again and again by the lack of foresight and original thinking

WHoever is in Charge @ The Estate, is simply using old and archaic business Models

to try and control.

The Youtube take downs are one thing...

THe use of the LOVE SYMBOL is quite another.

I started a thread here some time back to capture all the variations of Princes SYmbol that are appearing all over the place.

THe thread is on its third page with literally hundreds of people using the Love SYmbol in various ways...

but Mostly as an expression of Love and Devotion for Prince..

There is a letter submitted by Artist Luz E CruZ~Correspondance for Judicial approval

to use Princes likeness and Symbol, on Tshirts, apparel and artworks

which appeared online on 09/01/2017

Briefly...As an artist who creates work around the Symbol, Cruz outlines a frustrating journey where she has made many attempts to gain PERMISSION to use the Love SYmbol,even going to the trouble of drafting a Merchandising Agreement that offers the estate a percentage of sales (PAGE 5)

Cruz goes on to state that there are many hundreds of copywright infringements and at one time Prince apparently worked with her in some capacity and employed three People to police such infringements.

Crus goes on to say that the Estates respose to her persistant requests was to serve her with a cease and desist letter with which she immediately complied with by removing ALL Derivative artworks from her sites.Naturally she is very annoyed that SHe has been shot down immediately while others continue to shop and sell merchandise of their own creations, seemingly without retribution.

In closing Cruz asks that permission be granted for her to sell her artwoks and offers the Estate a 1% Commision ( A little too low, 5% is better more on this later)

and Further she has drafted an EMployment agreement (Page 7) that Makes her a content protection specialist

Job Description

* Work will consist of searching the intemet for instances of unauthorized use of intellectual property including but not limited to merchandise being sold depicting the likeness/image, name and any/all symbols/logos that fall under the estate of Prince Rogers Nelson.

* Act as a 3rd party representative to provide enforcement of unauthorized use and sale of merchandise which infringes on the intellectual rights of the Estate of Prince Rogers Nelson. The tasks will be completed Monday through Thursday with Friday, Saturday & Sundays off and Employee will work remotely (from home). Authority will be granted to Employee to act as an agent when reporting the infringement in efforts to remove violations prior to legal action.

* A report will be filed weekly in Excel spreadsheet format which includes the list of the infringing websites and/or merchants located within the coinciding week and will be submitted to Paisley Park Enterprises

* Follow-up on a monthly basis to ensure the infringing material has been removed and/or follow up with UMG Content Protection with material that is still under Violation to pursue legal remedies.

The Full Document can be read here

Judge Eide responded with this

Now, WHat she has proposed is not Perfect, needs some tweaking,

but it offers a number of win win win scenarios.

In his later years Prince said that he didnt mind people making money from his music, so long as its FAIR.I am assuming this can be extended to his image and likeness, because hes not here anymore and what better way to expand his lagacy than to have people who are passionate about him to have a hand in it

(peer2peer is a skeleton that can be fleshed and clothed in a million different ways)

In respect to Artworks here is a very brief outline of an INCLUSIVE structure that can work for everyone.

*Create a UNIQUE Licencing agreement that loosely follows Creative Commons Share and Share alike attribution. This is an artistic Licesnse that allows any artists work to be adjusted modified or copied so long as the Artist is credited.

*Assign a regulated percentage 5% of any sale goes directly to the Estate to be accumlated and paid yearly.

5% may seem very low...but if there are 100 Artists making only $10, 000 per year then the estate could claim 50,000..
Take Martin Homents as an example.
I want a T SHirt with some of his art on it.
DOnt you ?
Imagine is he was allowed to create and sell Licenced tshirts for example.
Imagine he sold just 5 a day for $50 thats $18,500 for the estate and all they would have to do is check his income return statement and police his sales outlet
Imagine there are 10 artists who set up a simlar business..Imagine there are 100 ?
Imagine there are 1000 ? and thats just T shirts..add cups, hats, wall art etc etc

With very little outlay from the Estate Prince Merchandise could literally go VIRAL and
along with it, his Legacy would be fortified.
Additionally people who are passionate about Prince would have a way to express themsleves
and make money~What is wrong with that ?

Giving approval to what is already going on underground will effectively disable illegal activities which are going to go on regardless,

Instead of the Estate setting up a SINGLE Platform,and trying to CONTROL let there be many that run with their approval.

*Create a platform where by any artist currently using Princes image in any form whatsoever, can apply for a License. Approval to be given on a product by product basis...

Yes to peaked caps and T shirts no to SHower Curtains, for example.These licenses should be relatively easy to obtain but should be vigorously policed.

WHat I am saying is...

WHEN THEY ZIG..you ZAG

Prince was about doing the opposite of what everyone else did

In other words, Instead of shutting DOWN other creatives, allow them to get Involved

expand the scope of Products available, allow for personalised expodential GROWTH and thus EXTEND Princes reach and at the same time collect a tidy sum for relative small outlay....

Lovejunky said:

Cruz made very good points but I am afraid this stupid deal with UMG merchandising may make it hard for the estates to work with artist like Cruz. Maybe Graceland can work with some if P's artist but we all know the minute Lonnie brought in UMG this sort of stuff was going to happen.

I do believe that an alternative structure would work a whole lot better than anything they have thought of so far...

they are trying to stop water flowing through a seive with their Fingers,

instead of Catching and redirecting the flow it in a multitude vessels...

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:

There is a merchandising deal with an arm of UMG. They have a few shirts out which are nothing special I suspect that deal might interfere somewhat with what Graceland/Paisley Park can do but remember Prince was the one that cut ties with UMG and maybe we now know why.

I believe merchandise will be sold on the tour and I also believe that estate might have a problem with Prince's face being plastered on shower curtins some merchandise the estate may just feel is tacky.

I think it is too bad the deal was signed with UMG Prince had a few artist who designed really nice shirts and the estate could have just put those out to sell. What a waste but maybe when the UMG ends they can find a better merchandiser.

Prince cut ties with WB and then did a deal with them in 2014. Just because he cut ties with UMG doesn’t mean he would never have worked with them again. We just don’t know.

He had to do a deal with WB to get all of the masters back at one time. He really had no choice and if rumors are too be believed he had been trying to work something out for over a decade.

In the end the music is licensed to WB so it was a partenrship not Prince working for WB again.

I am telling you what Dr. Funkenberry said Prince told him about UMG. In addtion, if Prince wanted to find another company to handle his publishing there are other corporations he could have choosen instead he choose to bring it in house. He spent the last 20 years of his life talking about breaking away from coporations to have more independence what would make you think anything would have changed.

It is about corporations obtaining intellectual property. Trust me someone is going to approach the family with offers to buy the catalogue after the probate is done. The WB deal might be the only thing that will hold up a complete sell off to a company like UMG.

[Edited 9/15/17 4:50am]

laurarichardson said:

purplefam99 said:

I got a Purple Rain shirt at target about 4 mths ago that said on the Neck tag that it was official PRN estate licensed merchandise.

I did too. It was a tank, I wished it was a t-shirt.

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:

He had to do a deal with WB to get all of the masters back at one time. He really had no choice and if rumors are too be believed he had been trying to work something out for over a decade.

In the end the music is licensed to WB so it was a partenrship not Prince working for WB again.

I am telling you what Dr. Funkenberry said Prince told him about UMG. In addtion, if Prince wanted to find another company to handle his publishing there are other corporations he could have choosen instead he choose to bring it in house. He spent the last 20 years of his life talking about breaking away from coporations to have more independence what would make you think anything would have changed.

It is about corporations obtaining intellectual property. Trust me someone is going to approach the family with offers to buy the catalogue after the probate is done. The WB deal might be the only thing that will hold up a complete sell off to a company like UMG.

[Edited 9/15/17 4:50am]

I’m not talking about a corporation owning his work I’m talking about administration. I don’t think any of the heirs are qualified for that. I’d rather the administration and distribution be farmed out to people who do this for a living. It’s obviously not going to be UMG so you don’t have to worry about that.

The administration of the music of the music would be conducted by a corporation if not done in house.

Do you think his brothers and sisters would be handling the administration or do you think they would hire the appropriate people to run the business much like Prince had a manager running NPG Publishing?

UMG made an offer to be the admin and I do not remember that part of the deal being rescinded they do not have the license but they are the admin right now.

[Edited 9/15/17 7:25am]

[Edited 9/15/17 7:27am]

Lovejunky said:

Cruz made very good points but I am afraid this stupid deal with UMG merchandising may make it hard for the estates to work with artist like Cruz. Maybe Graceland can work with some if P's artist but we all know the minute Lonnie brought in UMG this sort of stuff was going to happen.

I do believe that an alternative structure would work a whole lot better than anything they have thought of so far...

they are trying to stop water flowing through a seive with their Fingers,

instead of Catching and redirecting the flow it in a multitude vessels...

The structured worked for Prince because he could offset the merchandising loss with ticket sales. That source of revenue is gone. The Estate needs a new model. I do believe that they should protect the copyright/trademark brand. The Cruz example is a way to do both, expand the brand to new markets and have protection.

I know the arguement is there, that is not what Prince would want. Unfortunately, if his legacy is going to continue and grow, that model and business practice will not sustain the music and brand.

Just my opinion.

My question is, why is Cruz drawing up a contract for employment and then sending it to the judge? Isn't that a little ballsy? I can understand her asking the Estate for permission and I understand the Estate sending her a cease and desist. I mean she even gave a job description for something that wasn't even offered to her. That's kinda weird.

PennyPurple said:

My question is, why is Cruz drawing up a contract for employment and then sending it to the judge? Isn't that a little ballsy? I can understand her asking the Estate for permission and I understand the Estate sending her a cease and desist. I mean she even gave a job description for something that wasn't even offered to her. That's kinda weird.

It may seem wierd, but Cruz must want that business and is going for it. Sometimes you got to take a chance. This move may open the heirs' eyes that there are legitimate companies wanting to do business with the estate.

nelcp777 said:

PennyPurple said:

My question is, why is Cruz drawing up a contract for employment and then sending it to the judge? Isn't that a little ballsy? I can understand her asking the Estate for permission and I understand the Estate sending her a cease and desist. I mean she even gave a job description for something that wasn't even offered to her. That's kinda weird.

It may seem wierd, but Cruz must want that business and is going for it. Sometimes you got to take a chance. This move may open the heirs' eyes that there are legitimate companies wanting to do business with the estate.

She rolled the dice and took a chance. Maybe it will make someone at UMG wake up.

PennyPurple said:

PennyPurple said:

My question is, why is Cruz drawing up a contract for employment and then sending it to the judge? Isn't that a little ballsy? I can understand her asking the Estate for permission and I understand the Estate sending her a cease and desist. I mean she even gave a job description for something that wasn't even offered to her. That's kinda weird.

Yes..

She is a creative who see,s an alternative....Good for her

Just dumping this here....I remembered reading somewhere that Prince and Jay Z were documenting their meetings..but couldnt remember where or when...THis just came up on my facebook....

Im really intrigued as to what will become of all this since I believe that Prince and Jay Z understood each other very well and moreover Prince believed in TIDAL Enough to hand over his master and asked People to SUPPORT Tidal....

laurarichardson said: