precioux said:

1Sasha said:

It is heartwarming to me - yes, it is - to see the posts from people who truly cared and still do care about Prince. All we are trying to do is understand what happened and why it happened, if possible. The Asperger's comment - others have brought that up, and it may be viable knowing what we understand about it today. The elevator, the clothes on incorrectly ... I still would like to know if the toxicology levels were the result of one pill or several. Accidental or deliberate. I am leaning toward deliberate the more we talk together.

+1

...and I and others have orgnoted each other in reference to this. People were flat out scared to even broach the subject here, they knew they would be thrown under the bus. Now, it seems we're looking at things with more of an open mind. Here's where I get stumped though...IF it was intentional, WHY buy 100 pills? To make it "appear" as though he had an issue with pills, when that part seems a bit obvious.

Also, the qustion in regards to the liver levels of fentanyl...I have not researched it yet, but what I do know is that when a toxicology is preformed, there are 3 places were a pathologists draws from, if possible. They draw urine samples, blood from the heart and visceral fluid (the eye-sorry to be so expicit)). Visceral fluid is where the most concentration of any "substance" will be found. The body does not continue to metabolize anything after death, BUT because of the heart pumping blood, and being one of the places being that fluids are drawn from, substances are more likely to "settle" in larger amounts in the heart, therefore the amount of any given sibstance may appear higher than what it was dispersed throughout the body. (I don't know if I'm making sense)
I don't have an answer yet on how that particular level of fentanyl wound up showing in the liver. I will research/ask.

So true the bolded statement. I'm glad now we're starting to have a real discussion and exchange ideas freely.

(Just skip over anyone that copies and pastes the same narriative.)

.

Not to make a light of the question of why so many pills. We'll have to ask someone who's actually purchased stuff on the black market. It may be different than 'placing your order' maybe you have to buy a certain amount, whether dollar amount or quantity? Just guessing.

.

With kind regards, DD55

Chris Cornell's bodyguard supposedly had his (Chris') meds so that Chris wouldn't take too much. The bodyguard dispensed them. But the toxicology report showed otherwise and Chris had access through another channel. There are only three reasons in my mind that people aren't talking: possible criminal liability, possible civil liability, or out of respect for a very private person/don't want to damage his reputation/legacy. I wish they would simply tell the truth.

I don't know for how many years went on but from 1997 to 2003...but none told me exactly..but i asssume from what i have been told that it was something prince was dealing for some time..

DD55 said:

pupa1 said:

Since 1990 I have seen so many things..none can know for sure what happened that day, at least with the infos we have been told, but i can only say what i have witnessed and what i have been told from people I really trust:

Prince had hundreds of women during his life, he had multiple relathionhips ( just for a night or months) even during his marriages. He was the only one taking the decision about meeting a woman and he could change his mind at the last moment. It's always been that way with everybody, obviously he had a deeper relation with some girls more than others, but no way you could stop him from doing what he wanted. he could choose a girl in a club, during a show, at a party wherever he had occasion, usually he had an offical girlfriend most of the time waiting for him in an hotel room while he was looking around..

I have never had the impression he was under any drug, so until his death I had no idea of it.

After his death a person I really trust told me he had an addiction he was trying to keep under control giving somebody else the pills he had to take so even if he ask for more somebody else was in charge not to give him too much. But the last years the ones in charge were yes man so the person I know was expecting something bad could happen.

My deep feeling is he decided to leave this world that way and knowing him a little I understand why..

Year after year I knew more about him, but i always loved him more. I didn't care all the people around, band members and so on.., telling around he was an asshole, they are the same people who only say good words about him now and are making money with his music and his fans.

He was so special in so many ways and I didn't really cared abot the rest

Pupa1,

.

Wait a minute, I’m confused by the pronouns. Who exactly is ‘he’? your personal friend? Prince? Are you referring to two different people? …"After his death a person I really trust told me he had an addiction he was trying to keep under control giving somebody else the pills he had to take so even if he ask for more somebody else was in charge not to give him too much."

.

Are you saying you knew someone who gave Prince his medication? Prince trusted and asked this person to dispense his own medication? Where is this person now? Why has he/she not said anything? The person you know, knew for a fact that P had been taking meds for years? How many years do you know about? How long ago was this?

.

I don’t mean to be dense I just want to understand what you are saying. Please elaborate.

.

Peace, DD55

yes Pupa1, i was a little riddled by the pronouns too. please clear up when you get a sec.

pupa1 said:

Sorry you are right he= Prince and yes i have been told that after his death, i don't know and i didn't ask why he was taking these pills. I have only been told what it used to be..

So you have no idea why he was taking these pills because if he was addicted having someone to hold them would not have stopped him from taking them. At this time we can find not one person who will say they knew about him taking drugs illegally.

Tavis Smilely said he knew he took them for pain but did not know how strong the pills were and that he never saw P high. Leading me to think he told Tavis and that he had an Rx or was taking a certain dosage. Not sure why he would tell anyone if he had someone else holding them for him or why that person is not talking. Estates cannot sue for defamation and we all know what he died from.

Something fishy about the whole thing.

pupa1 said:

I don't know for how many years went on but from 1997 to 2003...but none told me exactly..but i asssume from what i have been told that it was something prince was dealing for some time..

Scott Baldwin his engineer said Prince was in a lot of pain during the Musicology Tour that was in 2004. We are told he did not have surgery until 2010. So the timelines do not even make sense.

1Sasha said:

Chris Cornell's bodyguard supposedly had his (Chris') meds so that Chris wouldn't take too much. The bodyguard dispensed them. But the toxicology report showed otherwise and Chris had access through another channel. There are only three reasons in my mind that people aren't talking: possible criminal liability, possible civil liability, or out of respect for a very private person/don't want to damage his reputation/legacy. I wish they would simply tell the truth.

But Chris did not have enought in his system to cause an O.D. and if you look at the last show he did he is about to fall over on the stage. In addition, he does not look as bad as Prince did in the face or as emanicpated.

I am sadly happy people is starting a different approach to what happened...everybody is free to deal with his loss his own way not to suffer...but so many don't want even look for some truth evn if it will be only a part of it

herb4 said:

purplefam99 said:

"discussion welcome" DD55 i like that. so i am gonna feel safe and come on in. reader, new poster

here.

I feel with any addiction he vascilated between clean and using and i believe it was to avoid pain intitially and the nature of these medications caught up. i want to say, did not

one dancer say to him "um P if you want to dance forever and avoid some pain you have got to take off those heels!!!!!!!!" it blows my mind that no one seems to have mentioned mentioning that to him. as an ex-modern dancer who danced barefoot most of the time my body is in pain, i can't believe someone didnt suggest it. even if he wouldn't go for it. it's the heels that did him in. i love him deeply as we all do.

He stopped wearing heels around 2001 and switched to those "platform sneakers" or whatever they were. When he did soundcheck at ONA shows, he had socks and sandals on. He wore the heels occasionally but less and less during performances. Super Bowl show was the last time I saw them.

The heels. Eventually he stopped wearing them, but it's safe to say they contributed immensily to both his success and demise. He had stopped wearing them as of late, but he still wore them for the SuperBowl, so imagine the effort that must have taken. He was probably taking painkillers to endure wearing them. Who knows how many times before that.
I too believe he was using painkillers for many years. A pretty manageable and sistematic dependency. Until it no longer was manageable.

There are some shows where it's kind of noticeable he's on something, imo. Montreux, 2013, first show.

pupa1 said:

I am sadly happy people is starting a different approach to what happened...everybody is free to deal with his loss his own way not to suffer...but so many don't want even look for some truth evn if it will be only a part of it

Many people have been looking at it in a different manner from the very beginning. The pain or sickness aspect is just not acceptable to some people based on their projections.

MMJas said:

herb4 said:

He stopped wearing heels around 2001 and switched to those "platform sneakers" or whatever they were. When he did soundcheck at ONA shows, he had socks and sandals on. He wore the heels occasionally but less and less during performances. Super Bowl show was the last time I saw them.

The heels. Eventually he stopped wearing them, but it's safe to say they contributed immensily to both his success and demise. He had stopped wearing them as of late, but he still wore them for the SuperBowl, so imagine the effort that must have taken. He was probably taking painkillers to endure wearing them. Who knows how many times before that.
I too believe he was using painkillers for many years. A pretty manageable and sistematic dependency. Until it no longer was manageable.

There are some shows where it's kind of noticeable he's on something, imo. Montreux, 2013, first show.

I watched most of shows I could from about mid 2000's on including Montreux and he does not seem high to me in fact that Montreux show is excellent. The only difference is he is not moving around as much and he is relaying on his band a lot with the exception of the guitar show.

The only thing that ever changed over the years was his relenance on band members and less dancing.

But at the end he is sitting at the piano by himself on stage were all eyes and ears are on him.

It does not seem like something you would do if you were dealing with an addiction/withdrawal issue. Contrast Chris Connell behavior on stage at his last show with Prince at his last shows.

1Sasha said:

Chris Cornell's bodyguard supposedly had his (Chris') meds so that Chris wouldn't take too much. The bodyguard dispensed them. But the toxicology report showed otherwise and Chris had access through another channel. There are only three reasons in my mind that people aren't talking: possible criminal liability, possible civil liability, or out of respect for a very private person/don't want to damage his reputation/legacy. I wish they would simply tell the truth.

Something was clearly off at that last show. His voice, his timing... he was even missing a chunk of hair in the back of the head, did you notice that? Painfully sad...

herb4 said:

purplefam99 said:

"discussion welcome" DD55 i like that. so i am gonna feel safe and come on in. reader, new poster

here.

I feel with any addiction he vascilated between clean and using and i believe it was to avoid pain intitially and the nature of these medications caught up. i want to say, did not

one dancer say to him "um P if you want to dance forever and avoid some pain you have got to take off those heels!!!!!!!!" it blows my mind that no one seems to have mentioned mentioning that to him. as an ex-modern dancer who danced barefoot most of the time my body is in pain, i can't believe someone didnt suggest it. even if he wouldn't go for it. it's the heels that did him in. i love him deeply as we all do.

He stopped wearing heels around 2001 and switched to those "platform sneakers" or whatever they were. When he did soundcheck at ONA shows, he had socks and sandals on. He wore the heels occasionally but less and less during performances. Super Bowl show was the last time I saw them.

thx, herb4. it doesn't take long for a dancer to mess their body up. i think all the damage of the heels was done in the 80's and that is sufficient time to kill ones hips and back and knees. the jumping off the risers in heels is just crazy abuse on the body. i don't blame him for wanting to go on and wanting the body to work cause it is a spectacular feeling to dance and you can tell he loved to move.

MMJas said:

1Sasha said:

Chris Cornell's bodyguard supposedly had his (Chris') meds so that Chris wouldn't take too much. The bodyguard dispensed them. But the toxicology report showed otherwise and Chris had access through another channel. There are only three reasons in my mind that people aren't talking: possible criminal liability, possible civil liability, or out of respect for a very private person/don't want to damage his reputation/legacy. I wish they would simply tell the truth.

Something was clearly off at that last show. His voice, his timing... he was even missing a chunk of hair in the back of the head, did you notice that? Painfully sad...

Who Prince or Chris?

1Sasha said:

Chris Cornell's bodyguard supposedly had his (Chris') meds so that Chris wouldn't take too much. The bodyguard dispensed them. But the toxicology report showed otherwise and Chris had access through another channel. There are only three reasons in my mind that people aren't talking: possible criminal liability, possible civil liability, or out of respect for a very private person/don't want to damage his reputation/legacy. I wish they would simply tell the truth.

I do not think someone who held drugs for him would be in any trouble unless they were around the night he died. Respect for his privacy I could see and for as his rep it has already been damaged explaining that he had pain like Scott did would help a lot.

purplefam99 said:

herb4 said:

He stopped wearing heels around 2001 and switched to those "platform sneakers" or whatever they were. When he did soundcheck at ONA shows, he had socks and sandals on. He wore the heels occasionally but less and less during performances. Super Bowl show was the last time I saw them.

thx, herb4. it doesn't take long for a dancer to mess their body up. i think all the damage of the heels was done in the 80's and that is sufficient time to kill ones hips and back and knees. the jumping off the risers in heels is just crazy abuse on the body. i don't blame him for wanting to go on and wanting the body to work cause it is a spectacular feeling to dance and you can tell he loved to move.

I got two friends (they are a couple actually) who were dancers all their lives. Today, the husband is waiting for surgery with the national health service, in the meantime teachins dancing but wilst walking with a cane. His wife cannot stand for more that an hour at a time, and she's a yoga instructor currently. The damage done to the body is pretty serious, most people have no idea...

MMJas said:

1Sasha said:

Chris Cornell's bodyguard supposedly had his (Chris') meds so that Chris wouldn't take too much. The bodyguard dispensed them. But the toxicology report showed otherwise and Chris had access through another channel. There are only three reasons in my mind that people aren't talking: possible criminal liability, possible civil liability, or out of respect for a very private person/don't want to damage his reputation/legacy. I wish they would simply tell the truth.

Something was clearly off at that last show. His voice, his timing... he was even missing a chunk of hair in the back of the head, did you notice that? Painfully sad...

Chris's death was ruled suicide correct? cause of the way he was found.

purplefam99 said:

MMJas said:

Something was clearly off at that last show. His voice, his timing... he was even missing a chunk of hair in the back of the head, did you notice that? Painfully sad...

Chris's death was ruled suicide correct? cause of the way he was found.

It was ruled a suicide because he hung himself and the drugs in his system were not enough that would have made him overdose.

purplefam99 said:

MMJas said:

Something was clearly off at that last show. His voice, his timing... he was even missing a chunk of hair in the back of the head, did you notice that? Painfully sad...

Chris's death was ruled suicide correct? cause of the way he was found.

the person who talked to me is a very private one and is not talking for a form of respect i guess, he was out of his entourage for several years now...more he knew the situation until he left..

I guess somebody else knows for sure what was going on but they probably don't want to ruin the bussiness..

Our conversation makes me want to go home, put on some Prince music, and sing and dance into the night. Nothing can change my respect or admiration for him. What he has left us is priceless.

DD55 said:

purplefam99 said:

Chris's death was ruled suicide correct? cause of the way he was found.

Sheeish, Take a step back and think about sitting and watching TV. Almost every night…. how many drug commercials end with the disclaimer ‘may cause suicidal thoughts’? So sad on so many levels.

No the ME said he did not have enough of the drug in his system to cause sucidial thoughts. We have to go by what they found in his system.

pupa1 said:

the person who talked to me is a very private one and is not talking for a form of respect i guess, he was out of his entourage for several years now...more he knew the situation until he left..

I guess somebody else knows for sure what was going on but they probably don't want to ruin the bussiness..

So the person left in 2003 before any surgical procedures took place.

DD55 said:

purplefam99 said:

Chris's death was ruled suicide correct? cause of the way he was found.

Sheeish, Take a step back and think about sitting and watching TV. Almost every night…. how many drug commercials end with the disclaimer ‘may cause suicidal thoughts’? So sad on so many levels.

that is true. i was just confused because i thought the train of thought was saying chris might have OD"D.

laurarichardson said:

DD55 said:

Sheeish, Take a step back and think about sitting and watching TV. Almost every night…. how many drug commercials end with the disclaimer ‘may cause suicidal thoughts’? So sad on so many levels.

No the ME said he did not have enough of the drug in his system to cause sucidial thoughts. We have to go by what they found in his system.

yes that is what i was going with, the ME report, so i wasn't considering chris's death as od.

herb4 said:

pupa1 said:

I have never had the impression he was under any drug, so until his death I had no idea of it.

You probably run into people all of the time that are under the influence of something and never know it. Could be alcohol, pain meds, xanax, valium, anti depressants, diet pills, over the counter speed, steroids...even stuff like weed or coke. I guarantee it in fact. You probably interacted with someone this week who was "under the influence" of SOMETHING. "Drugs" don't work like a Jekyl and Hyde thing where you turn into a bumbling lunatic or a raving maniac one mintute and a lucid communicator the next and the majority of drug users generally act perfectly normally depending on the intake. Often, the use of the drugs I just mentioned makes the perons more "normal" seeming, especially if they're prone to anxiety and tend to be uncomfortable in social situations. They calm their nerves and "bring them out of their shell".

Disassociative drugs like LSD, PCP, Salvia, mushrooms, iowaska and XTC (to a point) that involve ego loss and total distortion of reality are a different matter and what most non drug users think of and tend to picture as "someone being fucked up on drugs". Then there's stuff like heroin where you can't even stay awake.

Substances in the first category I spoke about are barely detectable unless the perosn uses too much of it.

herb4, THANKS for the brilliant recap about drugs that everyone on this thread should read slowly and internalize. I also think the bolded above is the alpha and omega re Prince and drugs. For his hip pain he had many choices: yoga, massage, acupuncture/pressure, replacement, physical therapy, non-addictive drugs, etc. For never feeling comfortable in his own skin he had fewer options, and once therapy is off the table, you're pretty much left with self-medicating and denial=death.

purplefam99 said:

laurarichardson said:

No the ME said he did not have enough of the drug in his system to cause sucidial thoughts. We have to go by what they found in his system.

yes that is what i was going with, the ME report, so i wasn't considering chris's death as od.

(spelling edit)

[Edited 6/23/17 11:31am]

Bodhitheblackdog said:

herb4, THANKS for the brilliant recap about drugs that everyone on this thread should read slowly and internalize. I also think the bolded above is the alpha and omega re Prince and drugs. For his hip pain he had many choices: yoga, massage, acupuncture/pressure, replacement, physical therapy, non-addictive drugs, etc. For never feeling comfortable in his own skin he had fewer options, and once therapy is off the table, you're pretty much left with self-medicating and denial=death.

We have heard many many times here about the drug addict theory and for many of us, it doesn't hold water in regard to Prince. So there is nothing to read slowly and internalize. As a matter of fact, you saying that implies the rest of us who think differently about the drug addict theory are stupid. Don't be so foolish to make assumptions like that. You aren't dealing with idiots here, many are professionals and can read and understand very clearly and think differently about this scenario.

so in your opinion he committed suicide?

pupa1 said:

Since 1990 I have seen so many things..none can know for sure what happened that day, at least with the infos we have been told, but i can only say what i have witnessed and what i have been told from people I really trust:

Prince had hundreds of women during his life, he had multiple relathionhips ( just for a night or months) even during his marriages. He was the only one taking the decision about meeting a woman and he could change his mind at the last moment. It's always been that way with everybody, obviously he had a deeper relation with some girls more than others, but no way you could stop him from doing what he wanted. he could choose a girl in a club, during a show, at a party wherever he had occasion, usually he had an offical girlfriend most of the time waiting for him in an hotel room while he was looking around..

I have never had the impression he was under any drug, so until his death I had no idea of it.

After his death a person I really trust told me he had an addiction he was trying to keep under control giving somebody else the pills he had to take so even if he ask for more somebody else was in charge not to give him too much. But the last years the ones in charge were yes man so the person I know was expecting something bad could happen.

My deep feeling is he decided to leave this world that way and knowing him a little I understand why..

Year after year I knew more about him, but i always loved him more. I didn't care all the people around, band members and so on.., telling around he was an asshole, they are the same people who only say good words about him now and are making money with his music and his fans.

He was so special in so many ways and I didn't really cared abot the rest

Bodhitheblackdog said:

herb4 said:

You probably run into people all of the time that are under the influence of something and never know it. Could be alcohol, pain meds, xanax, valium, anti depressants, diet pills, over the counter speed, steroids...even stuff like weed or coke. I guarantee it in fact. You probably interacted with someone this week who was "under the influence" of SOMETHING. "Drugs" don't work like a Jekyl and Hyde thing where you turn into a bumbling lunatic or a raving maniac one mintute and a lucid communicator the next and the majority of drug users generally act perfectly normally depending on the intake. Often, the use of the drugs I just mentioned makes the perons more "normal" seeming, especially if they're prone to anxiety and tend to be uncomfortable in social situations. They calm their nerves and "bring them out of their shell".

Disassociative drugs like LSD, PCP, Salvia, mushrooms, iowaska and XTC (to a point) that involve ego loss and total distortion of reality are a different matter and what most non drug users think of and tend to picture as "someone being fucked up on drugs". Then there's stuff like heroin where you can't even stay awake.

Substances in the first category I spoke about are barely detectable unless the perosn uses too much of it.

herb4, THANKS for the brilliant recap about drugs that everyone on this thread should read slowly and internalize. I also think the bolded above is the alpha and omega re Prince and drugs. For his hip pain he had many choices: yoga, massage, acupuncture/pressure, replacement, physical therapy, non-addictive drugs, etc. For never feeling comfortable in his own skin he had fewer options, and once therapy is off the table, you're pretty much left with self-medicating and denial=death.

You need to read slowly and stop assuming we are a bunch of morons.

yoga, massage, acupuncture/pressure, replacement, physical therapy, non-addictive drugs

These alternatives do not have a good track record of sloving pain problems and a simple internet search will tell you this. Why are you assuming that Prince a financially well off person did not try all avenues.

What non-addictive drugs= sprouts?

How do you know he did not feel comfortable in his own skin? Are you a phsycologist and if so are you evaluating him via the internet and via the lens of the entertainment industry?

Was Prince every on your couch? Once again we have someone making wild assumptions with no evidence to back up these ideas.

-------

[Edited 6/23/17 12:27pm]