herb4 said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Hey , Herb4, I almost posted this exact sentiment to LR yesterday LOL. But, really, you shouldn't get so worked up over her/him...LR's obtusenss is calculating and purposeful...it's all about attention-seeking.

Meh...I'm just free-forming here and I enjoy writing, especially about subjects I care about and know a few things (Prince, drugs, addiction, etc.) so I tend to go off on tangents. I find it cathartic sometimes even if I sometimes dread the replies the next morning, knowing my mind can't take it before reading the new sand heading off to work. Like I said in another thread, I don't presume to know EVERYTHING but not knowing 5% of something doesn't automatically make something a deep conspiratorial mystery either and taking a giant shit on Wendy or Mayte - people who actually DID know Prince - and substituting a half baked personal opinion in place of theirs sort of gets my goat and really lights a fire under me.


Godspeed to the few sane patient posters here that help make us all appear a little less crazy and obsessive. Sometimes I feel like I'm yelling at an obsidian tower filled with denial and ignorance.

Because, yes...yes you are! xo

moonsister said:

And there could have been relatively long periods of time where he wasn't using drugs, was on the wagon, then fell off and lost his current girlfriend or wife because of it. I think he was an introvert in a business where that is not an asset and used chemicals to calm his nerves and loosen him up for sexually charged performances. I still think he was bisexual and looked out at the world filled with ignorant judgement and knew he had to hide a major part of his being. His male lovers were probably also in the business and couldn't afford to lose support of their fans so they probably lived in a somewhat fearful state that they would be found out. The drugs might have eased this lifestyle. He was always very spiritual but I wish he had kept to the mind that God hears you wherever you are, you don't need an organized religion. Funny how Chaka also turned out to be addicted to drugs. The way Larry could ramble on I look askance at him, too.

HEY MOONSISTER, you're some stand-up broad...and that's a compliment!!!. BIG THANKS, LOVE, and RELIEF at reading your refreshing blast of gorgeous, liberating, freeing, soulful REALITY.xoxo

Bodhitheblackdog said:

moonsister said:

And there could have been relatively long periods of time where he wasn't using drugs, was on the wagon, then fell off and lost his current girlfriend or wife because of it. I think he was an introvert in a business where that is not an asset and used chemicals to calm his nerves and loosen him up for sexually charged performances. I still think he was bisexual and looked out at the world filled with ignorant judgement and knew he had to hide a major part of his being. His male lovers were probably also in the business and couldn't afford to lose support of their fans so they probably lived in a somewhat fearful state that they would be found out. The drugs might have eased this lifestyle. He was always very spiritual but I wish he had kept to the mind that God hears you wherever you are, you don't need an organized religion. Funny how Chaka also turned out to be addicted to drugs. The way Larry could ramble on I look askance at him, too.

i just don't know anymore, I never thought of him as a real bisexual, not that it mattered, i just thought all the frills and makeup was just his peacocking in that business. If he was bi (originally typed gay but since everyone wants to split hairs I changed it) , he had a wierd way of trying to cover it up. It's possible, Little Richard spoke out of both sides of his mouth for most of his life, preaching against gays and at the same time flaming wildly and hitting on men (he once invited me to his house in a myspace message, gave me his address and everything) and stories of him "goosing" innocent bystanders and cruising are all over the place. with Prince, we don't get too many stories, even from girlfriends, mayte seems to say she never knew him to take drugs but that he must have taken them, the only girlfriend who publicly said anything was that dingbat from england who lied about numerous things so that shows how much she can be trusted. I do know that Wendy alluded to a problem in, I think Hahn's first book, that Prince had a problem that wouldn't get better as he aged. I just assumed she meant a mental problem that would progress if untreated but I'm not sure. the only public spectacle we have of him either acting very strange or being high was the James brown concert, he was definitely not behaving right in that one, and I guess you could throw in the first Dick Clark appearance where my twelve year old logic thought he was high, outside of that, not many that i can see, we did indeed have footage of him exhailing a huge puff of smoke in the 90's and claiming to be open to drugs in an interview.

moonsister said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

HEY MOONSISTER, you're some stand-up broad...and that's a compliment!!!. BIG THANKS, LOVE, and RELIEF at reading your refreshing blast of gorgeous, liberating, freeing, soulful REALITY.xoxo

BACK AT YA BABY!

I agree with what I have seen posted here today about Prince’s drug use. There are various members who just don’t want to believe this and I think they feel that this tarnishes his image.

Until I see reliable information otherwise, I think that P. had drug issues for several years maybe as far back as the 80’s. I have spent a lot of time around drug users and I can always tell when I see a user. I have seen many images/videos over the years where Prince looked high to me but I just discounted it instead of believing the obvious.

I have also posted a few times a link to a HLN video where Dr. Drew spoke with a medical examiner about the autopsy findings and this medical examiner explained he didn’t die of AIDS, etc. because isn’t listed on the report. There was also no mention of other significant causes on the autopsy report but members continue to speculate about other medical issues. I am posting the link again to this video below.

I don’t know if we will ever have all the “answers” about what when on Prince’s life but we need to “read the handwriting on the wall”………

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evEj813Zjzo

moonsister said:

im gonna hide this here https://m.youtube.com/wat...6ulwYRHGy0

Great video. Thanks

leec1 said:

moonsister said:

leec1 said:

Great video. Thanks

I would be interested in seeing the vids and pics that make you think he was high. In this vid I posted that I think is out of this world stellar I wonder if he was tired and operating on a less than alert but somehow uninhibited genius level as a direct result of the tiredness, or high or ? He seems hoarse to me that's why I think he may be tired.

Here's A link to the video below. I haven't figured out how to upload images. Do you want to send me an e mail address and I will send you the images that way?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otwXYWFUiB4

If Josep Fritzl can keep a depraved double life secret from his wife for 24 years - all that time in the same friggin building! - then Prince can keep a drug habit secret from close(ish) acquaintances and hangers-on.

Strange how Mayte seems to have gleamed more than anyone else, considering she spent more time with him (minus the probable enabler - KJ). Like, isn't that what you would expect! if P was concealing something? It's not terribly difficult to score illicit drugs through a close friend and enabler, whilst keeping everyone else at arm's length. Happens in society all the time.

moonsister said:

I am going to stick to my script here ... I think he had been self-medicating for some time for both physical and emotional pain. Whether his death was accidental or deliberate, none of us knows. I think the ME should go back and rescind the "accidental" finding on her report. If the toxicology results are accurate, I think we are dealing with something other than an accident. JMO

1Sasha said:

I am going to stick to my script here ... I think he had been self-medicating for some time for both physical and emotional pain. Whether his death was accidental or deliberate, none of us knows. I think the ME should go back and rescind the "accidental" finding on her report. If the toxicology results are accurate, I think we are dealing with something other than an accident. JMO

Yes, she should unless there is some of pieces of info we are missing. I cannot see how that much of the drug would be accidental.

Agreed.

Did the local police conclude anything?

Nothing that the public has been told.

1Sasha said:

I am going to stick to my script here ... I think he had been self-medicating for some time for both physical and emotional pain. Whether his death was accidental or deliberate, none of us knows. I think the ME should go back and rescind the "accidental" finding on her report. If the toxicology results are accurate, I think we are dealing with something other than an accident. JMO

It's almost as though a dank, dark fog is slowly lifting and we can see/feel more clearly what we probably knew in our hearts the instant we heard about the elevator and the clothes. I think it's taken all this time to process the truth that we really knew very little about Prince because we wanted so very badly to be enveloped in his vision of love, juicy sex, no inhibitions and dancing till the dawn. But, even though his pathological control of his image/public persona was total and unrelenting somewhere long the line, IMO, HE lost the thread of the glorious Prince-genius-new Mozart narrative and now we are in Jimi, Janis, Amy, MJ, Elvis and Jim Morrison territory and we have to come to grips with this reality. RIP.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

1Sasha said:

I am going to stick to my script here ... I think he had been self-medicating for some time for both physical and emotional pain. Whether his death was accidental or deliberate, none of us knows. I think the ME should go back and rescind the "accidental" finding on her report. If the toxicology results are accurate, I think we are dealing with something other than an accident. JMO

It's almost as though a dank, dark fog is slowly lifting and we can see/feel more clearly what we probably knew in our hearts the instant we heard about the elevator and the clothes. I think it's taken all this time to process the truth that we really knew very little about Prince because we wanted so very badly to be enveloped in his vision of love, juicy sex, no inhibitions and dancing till the dawn. But, even though his pathological control of his image/public persona was total and unrelenting somewhere long the line, IMO, HE lost the thread of the glorious Prince-genius-new Mozart narrative and now we are in Jimi, Janis, Amy, MJ, Elvis and Jim Morrison territory and we have to come to grips with this reality. RIP.

If you think he had anything in common with those people I do not know what artist you have been following. Jim Morrison- Really WTF.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

1Sasha said:

I am going to stick to my script here ... I think he had been self-medicating for some time for both physical and emotional pain. Whether his death was accidental or deliberate, none of us knows. I think the ME should go back and rescind the "accidental" finding on her report. If the toxicology results are accurate, I think we are dealing with something other than an accident. JMO

It's almost as though a dank, dark fog is slowly lifting and we can see/feel more clearly what we probably knew in our hearts the instant we heard about the elevator and the clothes. I think it's taken all this time to process the truth that we really knew very little about Prince because we wanted so very badly to be enveloped in his vision of love, juicy sex, no inhibitions and dancing till the dawn. But, even though his pathological control of his image/public persona was total and unrelenting somewhere long the line, IMO, HE lost the thread of the glorious Prince-genius-new Mozart narrative and now we are in Jimi, Janis, Amy, MJ, Elvis and Jim Morrison territory and we have to come to grips with this reality. RIP.

"discussion welcome" DD55 i like that. so i am gonna feel safe and come on in. reader, new poster

here.

I feel with any addiction he vascilated between clean and using and i believe it was to avoid pain intitially and the nature of these medications caught up. i want to say, did not

one dancer say to him "um P if you want to dance forever and avoid some pain you have got to take off those heels!!!!!!!!" it blows my mind that no one seems to have mentioned mentioning that to him. as an ex-modern dancer who danced barefoot most of the time my body is in pain, i can't believe someone didnt suggest it. even if he wouldn't go for it. it's the heels that did him in. i love him deeply as we all do.

also anyone care to wonder if P had Asperger's/austism spectrum issues. with his ability to have

direct concentrated focus in one area at most times, his lack of deep emotional attachment, perhaps he had that

symptom that comes along with asperger's where the person has difficulty or inability to read facial cues. his need to have so much order, his reaction when the order was shifting or questioned, the

comments about him being particular and neat. even in AH's book where he says he wants Susannah M

to leave cause he can't wake up next to someone everyday. that perhaps he was on the spectrum

of this and the devout control was perhaps 2 fold his childhood and maybe spectrum issues. My

brother who is near P's age, the family now sees OOOOOOH that is what my brother has. no one

knew back then we just thought he was particular and knew that if we shifted things too much he

was gonna be out of sorts, angry, distant and seek to be alone. please, your thoughts?

Since 1990 I have seen so many things..none can know for sure what happened that day, at least with the infos we have been told, but i can only say what i have witnessed and what i have been told from people I really trust:

Prince had hundreds of women during his life, he had multiple relathionhips ( just for a night or months) even during his marriages. He was the only one taking the decision about meeting a woman and he could change his mind at the last moment. It's always been that way with everybody, obviously he had a deeper relation with some girls more than others, but no way you could stop him from doing what he wanted. he could choose a girl in a club, during a show, at a party wherever he had occasion, usually he had an offical girlfriend most of the time waiting for him in an hotel room while he was looking around..

I have never had the impression he was under any drug, so until his death I had no idea of it.

After his death a person I really trust told me he had an addiction he was trying to keep under control giving somebody else the pills he had to take so even if he ask for more somebody else was in charge not to give him too much. But the last years the ones in charge were yes man so the person I know was expecting something bad could happen.

My deep feeling is he decided to leave this world that way and knowing him a little I understand why..

Year after year I knew more about him, but i always loved him more. I didn't care all the people around, band members and so on.., telling around he was an asshole, they are the same people who only say good words about him now and are making money with his music and his fans.

He was so special in so many ways and I didn't really cared abot the rest

purplefam99 said:

"discussion welcome" DD55 i like that. so i am gonna feel safe and come on in. reader, new poster

here.

I feel with any addiction he vascilated between clean and using and i believe it was to avoid pain intitially and the nature of these medications caught up. i want to say, did not

one dancer say to him "um P if you want to dance forever and avoid some pain you have got to take off those heels!!!!!!!!" it blows my mind that no one seems to have mentioned mentioning that to him. as an ex-modern dancer who danced barefoot most of the time my body is in pain, i can't believe someone didnt suggest it. even if he wouldn't go for it. it's the heels that did him in. i love him deeply as we all do.

He stopped wearing heels around 2001 and switched to those "platform sneakers" or whatever they were. When he did soundcheck at ONA shows, he had socks and sandals on. He wore the heels occasionally but less and less during performances. Super Bowl show was the last time I saw them.

It is heartwarming to me - yes, it is - to see the posts from people who truly cared and still do care about Prince. All we are trying to do is understand what happened and why it happened, if possible. The Asperger's comment - others have brought that up, and it may be viable knowing what we understand about it today. The elevator, the clothes on incorrectly ... I still would like to know if the toxicology levels were the result of one pill or several. Accidental or deliberate. I am leaning toward deliberate the more we talk together.

pupa1 said:

I have never had the impression he was under any drug, so until his death I had no idea of it.

You probably run into people all of the time that are under the influence of something and never know it. Could be alcohol, pain meds, xanax, valium, anti depressants, diet pills, over the counter speed, steroids...even stuff like weed or coke. I guarantee it in fact. You probably interacted with someone this week who was "under the influence" of SOMETHING. "Drugs" don't work like a Jekyl and Hyde thing where you turn into a bumbling lunatic or a raving maniac one mintute and a lucid communicator the next and the majority of drug users generally act perfectly normally depending on the intake. Often, the use of the drugs I just mentioned makes the perons more "normal" seeming, especially if they're prone to anxiety and tend to be uncomfortable in social situations. They calm their nerves and "bring them out of their shell".

Disassociative drugs like LSD, PCP, Salvia, mushrooms, iowaska and XTC (to a point) that involve ego loss and total distortion of reality are a different matter and what most non drug users think of and tend to picture as "someone being fucked up on drugs". Then there's stuff like heroin where you can't even stay awake.

Substances in the first category I spoke about are barely detectable unless the perosn uses too much of it.

Oh yes, you are right, after i know his habit i looked back and I arrived the conclusion the drugs was his way too keep himself and possibly some kind of physical pain under control..

1Sasha said:

It is heartwarming to me - yes, it is - to see the posts from people who truly cared and still do care about Prince. All we are trying to do is understand what happened and why it happened, if possible. The Asperger's comment - others have brought that up, and it may be viable knowing what we understand about it today. The elevator, the clothes on incorrectly ... I still would like to know if the toxicology levels were the result of one pill or several. Accidental or deliberate. I am leaning toward deliberate the more we talk together.

+1

...and I and others have orgnoted each other in reference to this. People were flat out scared to even broach the subject here, they knew they would be thrown under the bus. Now, it seems we're looking at things with more of an open mind. Here's where I get stumped though...IF it was intentional, WHY buy 100 pills? To make it "appear" as though he had an issue with pills, when that part seems a bit obvious.

Also, the qustion in regards to the liver levels of fentanyl...I have not researched it yet, but what I do know is that when a toxicology is preformed, there are 3 places were a pathologists draws from, if possible. They draw urine samples, blood from the heart and visceral fluid (the eye-sorry to be so expicit)). Visceral fluid is where the most concentration of any "substance" will be found. The body does not continue to metabolize anything after death, BUT because of the heart pumping blood, and being one of the places being that fluids are drawn from, substances are more likely to "settle" in larger amounts in the heart, therefore the amount of any given sibstance may appear higher than what it was dispersed throughout the body. (I don't know if I'm making sense)
I don't have an answer yet on how that particular level of fentanyl wound up showing in the liver. I will research/ask.

You are unfucking belivable. If someone is abusing drugs and alcohol it is noticeable. You do not have to be some expert to tell. People are prescribed drugs due to all sorts of illness and as long as they are following the directions you are not going to be able to tell. With Prince we are talking about someone who worked 100 hour weeks and interacted with engineers for days at a time.

No one things he never had a drink or did anything the whole of his life but it would have been possible for him to have been abusing pain pills for 20 to 35 years. He had an Rx for these meds sometime in the past and something happend to make him increase his use.

herb4 said:

pupa1 said:

I have never had the impression he was under any drug, so until his death I had no idea of it.

You probably run into people all of the time that are under the influence of something and never know it. Could be alcohol, pain meds, xanax, valium, anti depressants, diet pills, over the counter speed, steroids...even stuff like weed or coke. I guarantee it in fact. You probably interacted with someone this week who was "under the influence" of SOMETHING. "Drugs" don't work like a Jekyl and Hyde thing where you turn into a bumbling lunatic or a raving maniac one mintute and a lucid communicator the next and the majority of drug users generally act perfectly normally depending on the intake. Often, the use of the drugs I just mentioned makes the perons more "normal" seeming, especially if they're prone to anxiety and tend to be uncomfortable in social situations. They calm their nerves and "bring them out of their shell".

Disassociative drugs like LSD, PCP, Salvia, mushrooms, iowaska and XTC (to a point) that involve ego loss and total distortion of reality are a different matter and what most non drug users think of and tend to picture as "someone being fucked up on drugs". Then there's stuff like heroin where you can't even stay awake.

Substances in the first category I spoke about are barely detectable unless the perosn uses too much of it.

[Edited 6/23/17 10:01am]

pupa1 said:

Since 1990 I have seen so many things..none can know for sure what happened that day, at least with the infos we have been told, but i can only say what i have witnessed and what i have been told from people I really trust:

Prince had hundreds of women during his life, he had multiple relathionhips ( just for a night or months) even during his marriages. He was the only one taking the decision about meeting a woman and he could change his mind at the last moment. It's always been that way with everybody, obviously he had a deeper relation with some girls more than others, but no way you could stop him from doing what he wanted. he could choose a girl in a club, during a show, at a party wherever he had occasion, usually he had an offical girlfriend most of the time waiting for him in an hotel room while he was looking around..

I have never had the impression he was under any drug, so until his death I had no idea of it.

After his death a person I really trust told me he had an addiction he was trying to keep under control giving somebody else the pills he had to take so even if he ask for more somebody else was in charge not to give him too much. But the last years the ones in charge were yes man so the person I know was expecting something bad could happen.

My deep feeling is he decided to leave this world that way and knowing him a little I understand why..

Year after year I knew more about him, but i always loved him more. I didn't care all the people around, band members and so on.., telling around he was an asshole, they are the same people who only say good words about him now and are making money with his music and his fans.

He was so special in so many ways and I didn't really cared abot the rest

Sorry you are right he= Prince and yes i have been told that after his death, i don't know and i didn't ask why he was taking these pills. I have only been told what it used to be..