I could point you towards Moonbeam Levels as well which people more knowledgable than me on the Steve Hoffman forums picked apart like crazy and showed that in terms of sheer analysis it came from a source identical to what was on BFTP 2.0 but with simply a 1db volume change on the 4ever version. So this leads me to believe that its very possible for stuff like that to happen on this release as well

[Edited 5/11/17 21:46pm]

littlerockjams said:

So, I'm listening on Grado open backs. I'm curious, as some of you claim to be audiologists, what frequencies do you not hear? What is lacking to your ear? What are you hearing that tells you this was sourced from anything other than the master and not mixed this way? And just a little about me, I transcribe music every day for a living. So I have a good ear, but I'm looking to maybe learn something from you.

So Our Destiny should absolutely sound this sharp and tinny? Her background vocals should muddy and blend in with the instrumentation? Her lead vocals should blur and warble into nondistinction?

.

Our Destiny sounds terrible. On first blush, it sounds worse than the leak.

BeatofBlackWings said:

littlerockjams said:

BeatofBlackWings said:

We are talking Prince songs right? Doesn't that happen on most every album? Where I'm coming from is if I had to transcribe these songs, there is nothing in this mix that would cause me trouble or lessen my enjoyment of the tunes.

The mix of a song is different than transients and loss of fidelity because of tape transfers of higher generations however. For example with Moonbeam Levels, people on the Steve Hoffman forums did extensive comparisons between the BFTP version and the 4ever version and both are literally digitally identical save for a 1db volume difference. The artifiacts, the transients, etc. And these aren't transients that have ever appeared on any Prince officially released recording before. And the fact that a lot of similar transients and artifacts are on the OD/RG recording leads me to believe it sourced from a tape that is a higher generation copy than the orignal master tape - or the master tape has severly degraded over time. Not that it is majorly impacting my enjoyment of these wonderful tunes - however as someone intrigued by these things I enjoy disussing it

[Edited 5/12/17 0:11am]

[Edited 5/12/17 0:27am]

I imagine the people saying that Our Destiny sounds bad are people use to listening to the 1984 Birthday Show.

Strive said:

I imagine the people saying that Our Destiny sounds bad are people use to listening to the 1984 Birthday Show.

No, that has nothing to do with it. It sounds bad because the quality is bad.

Actually it's quite worrying to hear the quality of Our Destiny / Roadhouse Garden. They are clearly sourced from tapes that are far from being in the best possible condition, especially Our Destiny which is badly damaged.

If these are an indication of the general state of the vault then the estate should gather for an emergency meeting and involve real experts, the best audio engineers they can find to work on an extensive, urgent program to save all the recordings in at least relatively future-proof formats.

And in the meantime, whenever they want to release something that is clearly in such a bad shape as Our Destiny is, they should go back to the multitracks and recreate the original mix.

MiceElfAgin said:

Actually it's quite worrying to hear the quality of Our Destiny / Roadhouse Garden. They are clearly sourced from tapes that are far from being in the best possible condition, especially Our Destiny which is badly damaged.

If these are an indication of the general state of the vault then the estate should gather for an emergency meeting and involve real experts, the best audio engineers they can find to work on an extensive, urgent program to save all the recordings in at least relatively future-proof formats.

And in the meantime, whenever they want to release something that is clearly in such a bad shape as Our Destiny is, they should go back to the multitracks and recreate the original mix.

Perhaps WB doesn't have access to the vault? and they got this from something Prince gave them around the time? Like an cassette of mixes etc, and this is what they're working from.

tbokris said:

MiceElfAgin said:

Actually it's quite worrying to hear the quality of Our Destiny / Roadhouse Garden. They are clearly sourced from tapes that are far from being in the best possible condition, especially Our Destiny which is badly damaged.

If these are an indication of the general state of the vault then the estate should gather for an emergency meeting and involve real experts, the best audio engineers they can find to work on an extensive, urgent program to save all the recordings in at least relatively future-proof formats.

And in the meantime, whenever they want to release something that is clearly in such a bad shape as Our Destiny is, they should go back to the multitracks and recreate the original mix.

Perhaps WB doesn't have access to the vault? and they got this from something Prince gave them around the time? Like an cassette of mixes etc, and this is what they're working from.

.
Don't be silly
WB needs the approval of the estate to release anything. Can you imagine the estate making the decision that they want to release certain songs, but they don't give WB access to the tapes of those songs?

SomeSoldier said:

Sometimes I praise the Lord for not giving me a good ear, and my crappy salary for not giving me enough money to buy super expensive earphones. It means I can listen to a song and actually enjoy it. I know, I should be ashamed and look up to people who are better, more educated and richer than me. I will think about my lack of criteria while I listen to this in my car, while I drive to work. I know, I'm going to listen to it in my car, I'm the lowest of the low!!!

you and me both (i'm sure we are not alone )

MiceElfAgin said:

tbokris said:

Perhaps WB doesn't have access to the vault? and they got this from something Prince gave them around the time? Like an cassette of mixes etc, and this is what they're working from.

.
Don't be silly
WB needs the approval of the estate to release anything. Can you imagine the estate making the decision that they want to release certain songs, but they don't give WB access to the tapes of those songs?

well, why would the estate release Moonbeam Levels as the same version that bootleggers have, rather than go to the vault and get the master tape?

MiceElfAgin said:

tbokris said:

Perhaps WB doesn't have access to the vault? and they got this from something Prince gave them around the time? Like an cassette of mixes etc, and this is what they're working from.

.
Don't be silly
WB needs the approval of the estate to release anything. Can you imagine the estate making the decision that they want to release certain songs, but they don't give WB access to the tapes of those songs?

It may well be that they can't locate the master in the vault.

SomeSoldier said:

laurarichardson said:

SomeSoldier said:

Sometimes I praise the Lord for not giving me a good ear, and my crappy salary for not giving me enough money to buy super expensive earphones. It means I can listen to a song and actually enjoy it. I know, I should be ashamed and look up to people who are better, more educated and richer than me. I will think about my lack of criteria while I listen to this in my car, while I drive to work. I know, I'm going to listen to it in my car, I'm the lowest of the low!!!

--So funny but on point. People do not know how to enjoy what we have.

.
I am able to enjoy good music despite low technical quality. But for some of us, music and/or recording, sound engineering etc is actually a profession, and I don't see why we shouldn't offer some professional feedback on certain things here. Especially when there are frequent discussions on the org about the possible source of certain recordings, or about how they could've been recorded etc.

MiceElfAgin said:

laurarichardson said:

SomeSoldier said: --So funny but on point. People do not know how to enjoy what we have.

.
I am able to enjoy good music despite low technical quality. But for some of us, music and/or recording, sound engineering etc is actually a profession, and I don't see why we shouldn't offer some professional feedback on certain things here. Especially when there are frequent discussions on the org about the possible source of certain recordings, or about how they could've been recorded etc.

That is all well and good but these recordings are 30 years old and we know the vault at one point was flooded it. We know Prince may not have taken the best care of the early stuff because he did not have a climate controlled vault until Paisley Park opened. I am sure there are songs that are on cassette tapes and reel to reel.

The archieves are going to do the best they can do and we are going to have to deal with it. WB is not going to spend vast amounts of money on this project and Prince would not have either.

Music sales are not what they use to be and this is they way things are going to be.

MiceElfAgin said:

laurarichardson said:

SomeSoldier said: --So funny but on point. People do not know how to enjoy what we have.

.
I am able to enjoy good music despite low technical quality. But for some of us, music and/or recording, sound engineering etc is actually a profession, and I don't see why we shouldn't offer some professional feedback on certain things here. Especially when there are frequent discussions on the org about the possible source of certain recordings, or about how they could've been recorded etc.

Some people have made perfectly valid points about the sound quality. In my cheap speakers, to my uneducated ear, the sonds sound great, but if other people have proper feedback (and as I say, some do) that's fantastic. The problem is that as I was reading the comments this morning there were a number of people who came across as saying "well, I'm really clever, so shut up because I'm right and you're wrong", which I found pathetic (I am by no means refering to you in particular, by theway, I can't remember who those people are...)

SomeSoldier said:

MiceElfAgin said:

.
I am able to enjoy good music despite low technical quality. But for some of us, music and/or recording, sound engineering etc is actually a profession, and I don't see why we shouldn't offer some professional feedback on certain things here. Especially when there are frequent discussions on the org about the possible source of certain recordings, or about how they could've been recorded etc.

Some people have made perfectly valid points about the sound quality. In my cheap speakers, to my uneducated ear, the sonds sound great, but if other people have proper feedback (and as I say, some do) that's fantastic. The problem is that as I was reading the comments this morning there were a number of people who came across as saying "well, I'm really clever, so shut up because I'm right and you're wrong", which I found pathetic (I am by no means refering to you in particular, by theway, I can't remember who those people are...)

.
No worries, your post was funny, actually

So I head "Our Destiny/Roadhouse garden" and it sounds less than pristine. Granted it was just a stream of the songs and through admittedly cheap ($2) ear buds. But I heard at least one sound level drop and several pops and other odd noise.

I also felt that Lisa's vocals were hard to understand at times. But I am OLD and Old ears hear what the want to hear.


also, I think there is an expectation of them being perfect quality...but maybe we should keep in mind that some of these songs were not finished... But I am looking forward to the set....


the first song I will listen to! "We Can..."

jjam said:

littlerockjams said:

from the Rolling Stone write up!

"The Purple Rain set also includes single edits, remixes, B-sides and a Blu-ray featuring a March 1985 concert from the Purple Rain Tour"

http://www.rollingstone.c...en-w482025

So is that an error or do they know something we do not?

I would expect it's an error. Whilst I would prefer a blu-ray, the truth is that DVDs are more universal and it doesn't appear that they are offering two different versions of the deluxe edition.

bluegangsta said:

rdhull said:

Then why does it sound great on them? That was my point. If it sounds good on them...

Tomorrow in the car will be the litmus test.

Ah yes, because the car is the best environment to test quality. I take back everything I said earlier.

If it worked for David Lee Roth, Im good with it.

laurarichardson said:

SomeSoldier said:

Sometimes I praise the Lord for not giving me a good ear, and my crappy salary for not giving me enough money to buy super expensive earphones. It means I can listen to a song and actually enjoy it. I know, I should be ashamed and look up to people who are better, more educated and richer than me. I will think about my lack of criteria while I listen to this in my car, while I drive to work. I know, I'm going to listen to it in my car, I'm the lowest of the low!!!

--So funny but on point. People do not know how to enjoy what we have.

Its possible to enjoy the music and be critical of it at the same time, however. I love that we have these tunes and I have been listening to OD/RG nonstop, however to turn a blind eye and not discuss what I feel like discussing on here - is just silly

SchlomoThaHomo said:

jjam said:

It may well be that they can't locate the master in the vault.

They don't have access to Prince's vault. The only things actually coming from his vault are what he submitted to them for his version of the deluxe package. The rest is coming from the WB vault, or they're sourcing them elsewhere. I repeat, this is not from Prince's vault. We won't know the state of his personal vault tracks until the estate is settled, and the vault is properly curated. [Edited 5/12/17 6:51am]

This. I'd think that it's safe to assume that 'Electric Intercourse' is sourced from the Vault, possibly one of the few songs (or only song) that Prince offered. But most everything else is likely not sourced from the Vault.

laurarichardson said:

SomeSoldier said:

Sometimes I praise the Lord for not giving me a good ear, and my crappy salary for not giving me enough money to buy super expensive earphones. It means I can listen to a song and actually enjoy it. I know, I should be ashamed and look up to people who are better, more educated and richer than me. I will think about my lack of criteria while I listen to this in my car, while I drive to work. I know, I'm going to listen to it in my car, I'm the lowest of the low!!!

--So funny but on point. People do not know how to enjoy what we have.

true..the best judge should be a 4 speaker car system

I wanted to look at the question in a different way:

Is it possible that moonbeam levels from blast from past and the 4ever track are the same because the leak came from the WB insider who had that version.

We keep saying they copied a boot........

I believe the boot and the supplied master whatever generation are the same.

Either way the track was much improved from the old"better place 2 die" days.

I don't think there is a conspiracy here. I believe these tracks are vault tracks WB has, and we were lucky enough for someone to leak them to the community before official releases such as this and 4 ever.

[Edited 5/12/17 11:36am]