PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

Threre are no facts about this relationship unless we hear them from the two deceased people.

But you can find Kim referernce has his high school girlfriend in numerous books over the years.

I think her high school boyfriend, Paul Mitchell would know the facts.

I know you believe everything.

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

I think her high school boyfriend, Paul Mitchell would know the facts.

I know you believe everything.

And you believe everything everyone else says except for the people involved. Paul Mitchell was personally involved, I think he would know who his own girlfriend was. Sheesh.

gandorb said:

AlexHahn said:

One of the very fun parts of the project was getting to know Sueann. I just sent her a copy of the book, so it will be interesting to hear her reaction. Her story is really an incredible one, so many twists and turns.

Alex, I am really enjoying your book so far. It is the best written of the handful I have read on Prince. I didn't know anything about the interesting Sueann storyline before. It may have been referenced in some of the other books I have read, but you fleshed it out here. I really felt for her. Her story in regards to Prince seems like a microcosm of his complex way of relating to others, at least in the early days of his career: Nurturing mentor, controlling, demanding loyalty in a rigidly defined way, cutting people off when they disappointed him or he tired of their musical contributions, perhaps periods of testing the water for reconciliation, yet seemingly letting grudges getting in the way of doing so. I imagine this may have cost him as much pain as those around him (at least in that it made him so lonely).

Thanks very much, I'm glad you're enjoying the book. Your points are well taken. More so than in the previous book, what we were trying to do is let the themes emerge organically from the story, which seems to have happened reasonably well.

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

We need to start keeping track of the questions we need to ask him.

---/I suspect Paul told Alex that he dated Kim and I am sure he did. It does not mean Kim did not date Prince as well. They were in high school and these can happen. [Edited 5/10/17 3:46am]

Given that Prince did ultimately start dating Kim, confusion may have developed over whether it was during high school or after. Per Nilsen's book was focussed very much on the music, so that wasn't the kind of detail -- the timing of the relationship -- that would have especially concerned him.

There is no question that a lot of these events took place a long time ago. I'm glad we did this book when we did because memories are beginning to fade or ast least soon will. With that said, I am very confident that Prince and Kim didn't start dating until after high school as we have reported. Laura Tiebert (my co-author) interviewed Paul in detail and we followed up with fact-checking. He is an extremely reliable and lucid source. Relatedly, no other source ever said that Prince and Kim dated in high school.

Long-winded answer to a short question!

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

Like I said someone told Per and it has to be someone from his peer group. You guys need to take it up with Per and stop assuming after his death that people who grew up with him do not want a little attention.

I have dug up a few books that I had in storage and I will take a look and see what they say.

Huh? You are the one who keeps mentioning Per's book, maybe you need to take it up with him. I don't really care what the other books say, right now we are discussing this one. One of the author's told you the source of info and that they spoke with him directly. Believe what you want to believe, even when facts are slapping you in the face.

I can tell you guys that Paul is an extremely sincere and in fact beautiful human being, very spiritual, and speaking to us was an generous act. As for Per, as I pointed out earlier his interest was not in sorting out the details of personal relationships. Even if he was still interested in Prince stuff -- and he has very much moved on -- I'm confident he would feel our researched superceded his on this point.

I find issues of historical accuracy interesting, and no one has a monopoly on truth. But this is one issue that seems as settled to me as it could be.

Here's a related, interesting story. Paul told us about a girl that Prince DID date in high school, and was essentially his first girlfriend. We searched high and low for her, to no avail. (Out of respect to her privacy, we will not reveal her name.) But frankly, one reason I was so interested in finding her is that I thought she may loosely have been the subject of "Schoolyard." Certainly details that Paul provided seemed to sync up. And "Schoolyard" seems very autobiographical, referencing "Ace" (Andre) among other things.

I was hoping very much that we would find this woman on Facebook and find someone with half-Japanese eyes. Oh well.

AlexHahn said:

PennyPurple said:

Huh? You are the one who keeps mentioning Per's book, maybe you need to take it up with him. I don't really care what the other books say, right now we are discussing this one. One of the author's told you the source of info and that they spoke with him directly. Believe what you want to believe, even when facts are slapping you in the face.

I can tell you guys that Paul is an extremely sincere and in fact beautiful human being, very spiritual, and speaking to us was an generous act. As for Per, as I pointed out earlier his interest was not in sorting out the details of personal relationships. Even if he was still interested in Prince stuff -- and he has very much moved on -- I'm confident he would feel our researched superceded his on this point.

I find issues of historical accuracy interesting, and no one has a monopoly on truth. But this is one issue that seems as settled to me as it could be.

Here's a related, interesting story. Paul told us about a girl that Prince DID date in high school, and was essentially his first girlfriend. We searched high and low for her, to no avail. (Out of respect to her privacy, we will not reveal her name.) But frankly, one reason I was so interested in finding her is that I thought she may loosely have been the subject of "Schoolyard." Certainly details that Paul provided seemed to sync up. And "Schoolyard" seems very autobiographical, referencing "Ace" (Andre) among other things.

I was hoping very much that we would find this woman on Facebook and find someone with half-Japanese eyes. Oh well.

Could that have anything to do with the Mai-ling gal who has written an article and wrote a book claiming to have been the gal P wrote Little Red Corvette about?

LBrent said:

AlexHahn said:

I can tell you guys that Paul is an extremely sincere and in fact beautiful human being, very spiritual, and speaking to us was an generous act. As for Per, as I pointed out earlier his interest was not in sorting out the details of personal relationships. Even if he was still interested in Prince stuff -- and he has very much moved on -- I'm confident he would feel our researched superceded his on this point.

I find issues of historical accuracy interesting, and no one has a monopoly on truth. But this is one issue that seems as settled to me as it could be.

Here's a related, interesting story. Paul told us about a girl that Prince DID date in high school, and was essentially his first girlfriend. We searched high and low for her, to no avail. (Out of respect to her privacy, we will not reveal her name.) But frankly, one reason I was so interested in finding her is that I thought she may loosely have been the subject of "Schoolyard." Certainly details that Paul provided seemed to sync up. And "Schoolyard" seems very autobiographical, referencing "Ace" (Andre) among other things.

I was hoping very much that we would find this woman on Facebook and find someone with half-Japanese eyes. Oh well.

Could that have anything to do with the Mai-ling gal who has written an article and wrote a book claiming to have been the gal P wrote Little Red Corvette about?

I don't think she was around in high school. Frankly, "Carrie" from "Schoolyard" may have been a composite character, or entirely fictional. But I was definitely interested to see if we could run it down.

But I always felt like "Schoolyard" was left off of D&P because it was very personal -- too much so for that project.

AlexHahn said:

LBrent said:

Could that have anything to do with the Mai-ling gal who has written an article and wrote a book claiming to have been the gal P wrote Little Red Corvette about?

I don't think she was around in high school. Frankly, "Carrie" from "Schoolyard" may have been a composite character, or entirely fictional. But I was definitely interested to see if we could run it down.

But I always felt like "Schoolyard" was left off of D&P because it was very personal -- too much so for that project.

Do you know who Nadeara is who Prince sings about while in a recording session when he was really young ...there was a girl in the recording studio with him and they were flirting

Someone who claimed to have met Judith Hill wrote in a comment on the NYTimes profile of her that Prince said she reminded him of the first girl he was "intimate" with. And Judith Hill has a Japanese mother. Who knows, but I immediately thought of Schoolyard when I read that

AlexHahn said:

LBrent said:

Could that have anything to do with the Mai-ling gal who has written an article and wrote a book claiming to have been the gal P wrote Little Red Corvette about?

I don't think she was around in high school. Frankly, "Carrie" from "Schoolyard" may have been a composite character, or entirely fictional. But I was definitely interested to see if we could run it down.

But I always felt like "Schoolyard" was left off of D&P because it was very personal -- too much so for that project.

[Edited 5/10/17 16:48pm]

AlexHahn said:

LBrent said:

Could that have anything to do with the Mai-ling gal who has written an article and wrote a book claiming to have been the gal P wrote Little Red Corvette about?

I don't think she was around in high school. Frankly, "Carrie" from "Schoolyard" may have been a composite character, or entirely fictional. But I was definitely interested to see if we could run it down.

But I always felt like "Schoolyard" was left off of D&P because it was very personal -- too much so for that project.

She was around she was two years younger then him and they went to the same school.

AlexHahn said:

PennyPurple said:

Huh? You are the one who keeps mentioning Per's book, maybe you need to take it up with him. I don't really care what the other books say, right now we are discussing this one. One of the author's told you the source of info and that they spoke with him directly. Believe what you want to believe, even when facts are slapping you in the face.

I can tell you guys that Paul is an extremely sincere and in fact beautiful human being, very spiritual, and speaking to us was an generous act. As for Per, as I pointed out earlier his interest was not in sorting out the details of personal relationships. Even if he was still interested in Prince stuff -- and he has very much moved on -- I'm confident he would feel our researched superceded his on this point.

I find issues of historical accuracy interesting, and no one has a monopoly on truth. But this is one issue that seems as settled to me as it could be.

Here's a related, interesting story. Paul told us about a girl that Prince DID date in high school, and was essentially his first girlfriend. We searched high and low for her, to no avail. (Out of respect to her privacy, we will not reveal her name.) But frankly, one reason I was so interested in finding her is that I thought she may loosely have been the subject of "Schoolyard." Certainly details that Paul provided seemed to sync up. And "Schoolyard" seems very autobiographical, referencing "Ace" (Andre) among other things.

I was hoping very much that we would find this woman on Facebook and find someone with half-Japanese eyes. Oh well.

No one said anything bad about Paul however, someone told Per that and other writers so it came from somewhere because even Jill Jones has repeated it and numerous other people. Who knows maybe it came from Prince. Sorry but this is just a fact.

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

I know you believe everything.

And you believe everything everyone else says except for the people involved. Paul Mitchell was personally involved, I think he would know who his own girlfriend was. Sheesh.

You need to work on your critical thinking skills.

laurarichardson said:

No one said anything bad about Paul however, someone told Per that and other writers so it came from somewhere because even Jill Jones has repeated it and numerous other people. Who knows maybe it came from Prince. Sorry but this is just a fact.

That's what you call rumors, Laura. Not facts.

I remember watching him on Bandstand, and thought the way he acted on it back then was weird, and still think it's weird. But, I guess it served it's purpose to bring attention to him.

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

No one said anything bad about Paul however, someone told Per that and other writers so it came from somewhere because even Jill Jones has repeated it and numerous other people. Who knows maybe it came from Prince. Sorry but this is just a fact.

That's what you call rumors, Laura. Not facts.

The only way to have facts about this is if we were around back then. Since none of us were we have no facts just what has been written about for almost 40 years.

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

That's what you call rumors, Laura. Not facts.

The only way to have facts about this is if we were around back then. Since none of us were we have no facts just what has been written about for almost 40 years.

Move on Laura, before you make a complete fool out of yourself.

.

The Author of this book told you what the facts were. Paul Mitchell WAS around 40 years ago, he KNOWS the FACTS.

.

I don't care what is in another book, evidently that book didn't get some facts correct. And you keep saying Jill Jones said differently, hell she didn't even know Prince in High School, so that's laughable. I can't believe that you are saying what Paul Mitchell lived and knows, isn't fact. ? .

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

The only way to have facts about this is if we were around back then. Since none of us were we have no facts just what has been written about for almost 40 years.

Move on Laura, before you make a complete fool out of yourself.

.

The Author of this book told you what the facts were. Paul Mitchell WAS around 40 years ago, he KNOWS the FACTS.

.

I don't care what is in another book, evidently that book didn't get some facts correct. And you keep saying Jill Jones said differently, hell she didn't even know Prince in High School, so that's laughable. I can't believe that you are saying what Paul Mitchell lived and knows, isn't fact. ? .

I have not said one disparging think about Paul in fact I even explained what I think happend and if you knew anything you would know that Kim was still around when Jill was around. She knew Kim and must have got the idea that she was his high school girlfriend from somewhere. like dozen of other people.

See below. I could find about a dozen more but I not going to.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ashley-gail-terrell/some-guys-send-you-flower_b_12053212.html

In November 2015, his high school girlfriend Kim Upsher died

She was the kindest, patient, and supportive person for him. Watching the changes that come into your life, I had a lot of empathy for her because she helped me navigate through all that bull—— at the beginning. She passed away before Denise so he had a double whammy. So I know everybody is like, ‘Oh, Denise’ but his girlfriend who has been with him, lived in the same house as him, grew up with him, that was his big crush from school...Kim was an unsung hero in my opinion. They stayed friends throughout. She knew his family, everything and it was sad. She passed away from a brain aneurysm and that sadden my heart

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

Move on Laura, before you make a complete fool out of yourself.

.

The Author of this book told you what the facts were. Paul Mitchell WAS around 40 years ago, he KNOWS the FACTS.

.

I don't care what is in another book, evidently that book didn't get some facts correct. And you keep saying Jill Jones said differently, hell she didn't even know Prince in High School, so that's laughable. I can't believe that you are saying what Paul Mitchell lived and knows, isn't fact. ? .

I have not said one disparging think about Paul in fact I even explained what I think happend and if you knew anything you would know that Kim was still around when Jill was around. She knew Kim and must have got the idea that she was his high school girlfriend from somewhere. like dozen of other people.

See below. I could find about a dozen more but I not going to.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ashley-gail-terrell/some-guys-send-you-flower_b_12053212.html

In November 2015, his high school girlfriend Kim Upsher died

She was the kindest, patient, and supportive person for him. Watching the changes that come into your life, I had a lot of empathy for her because she helped me navigate through all that bull—— at the beginning. She passed away before Denise so he had a double whammy. So I know everybody is like, ‘Oh, Denise’ but his girlfriend who has been with him, lived in the same house as him, grew up with him, that was his big crush from school...Kim was an unsung hero in my opinion. They stayed friends throughout. She knew his family, everything and it was sad. She passed away from a brain aneurysm and that sadden my heart

Damn, 2 women P was close to passed relatively young of brain aneurysms...Boni Boyer passed away from one too.

Sad

Laura, you've made your point that you feel passionately that Prince first dated Kim Upsher when they were in high school, rather than a few years later. Let it go.

-

I for one appreciate the research Alex and Laura T. did on this -- the words directly from Paul Mitchell were so interesting. I don't think I had ever read an interview with him prior to this book though his name came up. I didn't even know if he was still alive!

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

Move on Laura, before you make a complete fool out of yourself.

.

The Author of this book told you what the facts were. Paul Mitchell WAS around 40 years ago, he KNOWS the FACTS.

.

I don't care what is in another book, evidently that book didn't get some facts correct. And you keep saying Jill Jones said differently, hell she didn't even know Prince in High School, so that's laughable. I can't believe that you are saying what Paul Mitchell lived and knows, isn't fact. ? .

I have not said one disparging think about Paul in fact I even explained what I think happend and if you knew anything you would know that Kim was still around when Jill was around. She knew Kim and must have got the idea that she was his high school girlfriend from somewhere. like dozen of other people.

See below. I could find about a dozen more but I not going to.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ashley-gail-terrell/some-guys-send-you-flower_b_12053212.html

In November 2015, his high school girlfriend Kim Upsher died

She was the kindest, patient, and supportive person for him. Watching the changes that come into your life, I had a lot of empathy for her because she helped me navigate through all that bull—— at the beginning. She passed away before Denise so he had a double whammy. So I know everybody is like, ‘Oh, Denise’ but his girlfriend who has been with him, lived in the same house as him, grew up with him, that was his big crush from school...Kim was an unsung hero in my opinion. They stayed friends throughout. She knew his family, everything and it was sad. She passed away from a brain aneurysm and that sadden my heart

[Edited 5/10/17 19:41pm]

Actually Purple Reign by Jon Bream does have a short interview with Paul so it was not the first time he was interviewed. I do not feel anything I just presented what has been said in the past.

disch said:

Laura, you've made your point that you feel passionately that Prince first dated Kim Upsher when they were in high school, rather than a few years later. Let it go.

-

I for one appreciate the research Alex and Laura T. did on this -- the words directly from Paul Mitchell were so interesting. I don't think I had ever read an interview with him prior to this book though his name came up. I didn't even know if he was still alive!

laurarichardson said:

I have not said one disparging think about Paul in fact I even explained what I think happend and if you knew anything you would know that Kim was still around when Jill was around. She knew Kim and must have got the idea that she was his high school girlfriend from somewhere. like dozen of other people.

See below. I could find about a dozen more but I not going to.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ashley-gail-terrell/some-guys-send-you-flower_b_12053212.html

In November 2015, his high school girlfriend Kim Upsher died

She was the kindest, patient, and supportive person for him. Watching the changes that come into your life, I had a lot of empathy for her because she helped me navigate through all that bull—— at the beginning. She passed away before Denise so he had a double whammy. So I know everybody is like, ‘Oh, Denise’ but his girlfriend who has been with him, lived in the same house as him, grew up with him, that was his big crush from school...Kim was an unsung hero in my opinion. They stayed friends throughout. She knew his family, everything and it was sad. She passed away from a brain aneurysm and that sadden my heart

[Edited 5/10/17 19:41pm]

disch said:

Someone who claimed to have met Judith Hill wrote in a comment on the NYTimes profile of her that Prince said she reminded him of the first girl he was "intimate" with. And Judith Hill has a Japanese mother. Who knows, but I immediately thought of Schoolyard when I read that

AlexHahn said:

I don't think she was around in high school. Frankly, "Carrie" from "Schoolyard" may have been a composite character, or entirely fictional. But I was definitely interested to see if we could run it down.

But I always felt like "Schoolyard" was left off of D&P because it was very personal -- too much so for that project.

[Edited 5/10/17 16:48pm]

Holy cow! Great catch and putting together of connections. Piecing things together that way is like detective work, it's very interesting.

laurarichardson said:

Actually Purple Reign by Jon Bream does have a short interview with Paul so it was not the first time he was interviewed. I do not feel anything I just presented what has been said in the past.

disch said:

Laura, you've made your point that you feel passionately that Prince first dated Kim Upsher when they were in high school, rather than a few years later. Let it go.

-

I for one appreciate the research Alex and Laura T. did on this -- the words directly from Paul Mitchell were so interesting. I don't think I had ever read an interview with him prior to this book though his name came up. I didn't even know if he was still alive!

[Edited 5/10/17 19:41pm]

Kim died November and Denise the following February. I thought it was known Kim was his high school girlfriend. She had a cameo ion Purple Rain- one of the waitresses.

AlexHahn said:

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said: ---/I suspect Paul told Alex that he dated Kim and I am sure he did. It does not mean Kim did not date Prince as well. They were in high school and these can happen. [Edited 5/10/17 3:46am]

Given that Prince did ultimately start dating Kim, confusion may have developed over whether it was during high school or after. Per Nilsen's book was focussed very much on the music, so that wasn't the kind of detail -- the timing of the relationship -- that would have especially concerned him.

There is no question that a lot of these events took place a long time ago. I'm glad we did this book when we did because memories are beginning to fade or ast least soon will. With that said, I am very confident that Prince and Kim didn't start dating until after high school as we have reported. Laura Tiebert (my co-author) interviewed Paul in detail and we followed up with fact-checking. He is an extremely reliable and lucid source. Relatedly, no other source ever said that Prince and Kim dated in high school.

Long-winded answer to a short question!

I am reading your book and find I do have questions and we have debated over some of your facts. I always read Kim and Prince dated in high school and always that Vanity was not fired but left the Purple Rain project .

Also Prince let it be known The Beautiful Ones was not written for Susannah. I was wondering why you kept those things in the book.

I am curious not trying to be combative or dissing anything you wrote.

Vashtix said:

AlexHahn said:

Given that Prince did ultimately start dating Kim, confusion may have developed over whether it was during high school or after. Per Nilsen's book was focussed very much on the music, so that wasn't the kind of detail -- the timing of the relationship -- that would have especially concerned him.

There is no question that a lot of these events took place a long time ago. I'm glad we did this book when we did because memories are beginning to fade or ast least soon will. With that said, I am very confident that Prince and Kim didn't start dating until after high school as we have reported. Laura Tiebert (my co-author) interviewed Paul in detail and we followed up with fact-checking. He is an extremely reliable and lucid source. Relatedly, no other source ever said that Prince and Kim dated in high school.

Long-winded answer to a short question!

I am reading your book and find I do have questions and we have debated over some of your facts. I always read Kim and Prince dated in high school and always that Vanity was not fired but left the Purple Rain project .

Also Prince let it be known The Beautiful Ones was not written for Susannah. I was wondering why you kept those things in the book.

I am curious not trying to be combative or dissing anything you wrote.

We are discussing this book chapter by chapter. Please don't jump ahead to the Vanity era, we aren't there yet. Please follow the rules.

2 TAKE PART IN THE BOOK CLUB YOU MUST HAVE/READ THE BOOK.
PLEASE FOLLOW THE DIRECTIVE OF THE BOOK CLUB OP
STAY ON TOPIC AND PLEASE HELP TO MAKE IT AN ENJOYABLE EXPERIENCE.
THERE ARE ENOUGH AND HAVE BEEN ENOUGH THREADS TO DISCUSS THINGS EXTENSIVELY.

PennyPurple said:

Vashtix said:

I am reading your book and find I do have questions and we have debated over some of your facts. I always read Kim and Prince dated in high school and always that Vanity was not fired but left the Purple Rain project .

Also Prince let it be known The Beautiful Ones was not written for Susannah. I was wondering why you kept those things in the book.

I am curious not trying to be combative or dissing anything you wrote.

We are discussing this book chapter by chapter. Please don't jump ahead to the Vanity era, we aren't there yet. Please follow the rules.

2 TAKE PART IN THE BOOK CLUB YOU MUST HAVE/READ THE BOOK.
PLEASE FOLLOW THE DIRECTIVE OF THE BOOK CLUB OP
STAY ON TOPIC AND PLEASE HELP TO MAKE IT AN ENJOYABLE EXPERIENCE.
THERE ARE ENOUGH AND HAVE BEEN ENOUGH THREADS TO DISCUSS THINGS EXTENSIVELY.

I did read the book. I would not comment on the book if I hadn't.

I will ask again - did not mean to upset the flow;

Vashtix said:

PennyPurple said:

We are discussing this book chapter by chapter. Please don't jump ahead to the Vanity era, we aren't there yet. Please follow the rules.

2 TAKE PART IN THE BOOK CLUB YOU MUST HAVE/READ THE BOOK.
PLEASE FOLLOW THE DIRECTIVE OF THE BOOK CLUB OP
STAY ON TOPIC AND PLEASE HELP TO MAKE IT AN ENJOYABLE EXPERIENCE.
THERE ARE ENOUGH AND HAVE BEEN ENOUGH THREADS TO DISCUSS THINGS EXTENSIVELY.

I did read the book. I would not comment on the book if I hadn't.

I will ask again - did not mean to upset the flow;

Again we are going chapter by chapter. We aren't at that chapter yet.

PennyPurple said:

Vashtix said:

I did read the book. I would not comment on the book if I hadn't.

I will ask again - did not mean to upset the flow;

Again we are going chapter by chapter. We aren't at that chapter yet.

Point taken

I am patient

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

That's what you call rumors, Laura. Not facts.

The only way to have facts about this is if we were around back then. Since none of us were we have no facts just what has been written about for almost 40 years.

[Edited 5/11/17 14:46pm]

[Edited 5/11/17 14:47pm]

What chapter are we up to now?

LBrent said:

What chapter are we up to now?

Getting ready for Chapter 11.

.

Chapter 11 ~ Battle Pgs 137-146

• Rick James enters the picture.

• Prince was pegged to open for James and the Promoters pegged it as “The Battle of Funk’.

• 42 shows over 2 months.

• Rick James was a draft dodger, served time in the brig

• Was invited to the party at Roman Polanski’s where Charles Manson and his cult murdered

• James pointed a stage prop that looked like a gun at Andre

• James was making unwanted advances to Gayle Chapman

• Prince ordered Chapman to wear lingerie on stage

• Prince changed Finks outfit from the jailbird outfit to the Dr outfit

• Prince began to mimic James

• The tour was very lucrative to Prince