PurpleDiamonds1 said:

laurarichardson said:

So he would have been receiving the same treatment he was receiving from Dr. S. Withdrawal meds and weening.

Bet the usual will not see an issue with this either....how then does an out patient dr in Cali intend to treat a patient in Minnesota? What were they really up to?... I think we all know that answer.

what are they really up to? Laura, please answer.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

laurarichardson said:

So he would have been receiving the same treatment he was receiving from Dr. S. Withdrawal meds and weening.

Bet the usual will not see an issue with this either....how then does an out patient dr in Cali intend to treat a patient in Minnesota? What were they really up to?... I think we all know that answer.

It does not make any sense he could have received the same care from Hazelton down the road or just stay in the local hospital and be under Dr. S care. Something does not add up about the whole thing. A lot of lose ends, weird people, and just plain old crooks hanging around.

DD55 said:

laurarichardson said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

zenarose said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

My answer is no good

+1

Ok, by suggesting clinics in MN for drug treatment you’re agreeing there was a drug problem. (Don’t have a source for the next statement,…but..) People usually don’t enter rehab until things begin to spiral out of control. So it had gotten to the point where, if not Prince himself, at least his staff recognized the need for help in the form of rehab.

.

Peace

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

DD55 said:

DD55 said:

I know this may be a silly question, but will we ever see the light of day on the "answers" to the warrants and what was revealed/discovered...

ISLIJAG?

cloveringold85 said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

"First of all, it's unethical to prescribe a medication for someone you haven't seen. It's also unethical to prescribe across state lines if the patient is residing in another state. And if you're not licensed here, you're practicing medicine in Minnesota without a license and that's illegal," Willenbring said. Willenbring is founder and CEO of Alltyr Clinic in St. Paul, which offers addiction treatment including buprenorphine. The drug is available in Minnesota, so there was no reason to bring it from California, he said. "I assume this was done because of the wish for anonymity, but that doesn't excuse it," Willenbring said. "It could well have been illegal for his son to be transporting medication that was not prescribed for him. ... I think there's a clear legal infraction there, no matter what." Two Minneapolis attorneys also questioned Kornfeld carrying the drug across state lines. Fabian Hoffner, who represents doctors in licensing matters, called it "highly unusual that a physician would send drugs with his son, or anyone" to Minnesota for them then to be given through a doctor. Dozens of doctors are authorized to prescribe buprenorphine in Minnesota, including Willenbring and his colleagues. Federal law limits doctors to 100 patients, but Willenbring said he isn't at the limit. "I could have driven to Paisley Park from my office in 20 minutes. I would have been happy to do so," he said. Mauzy said Prince's representatives told Howard Kornfeld that the singer was "dealing with a grave medical emergency." He declined Wednesday to detail the emergency. Asked what Kornfeld should have done if told Prince's condition was an emergency, Willenbring said: "If it's an emergency, call 911 for God's sake. Don't send your pre-med son on a redeye."

.

Lovesymbol: THANK YOU!! This is what I've been trying to say, but no one listens to reason!

.

I read that exact article you are speaking about. And, what Willenbring said is what any ethical and moral doctor would say! And, people are arguing about this "privacy" bullshit -- give me a damn break already! Doctor's have to obide by privacy and confidentiality laws and they cannot discuss any treatment of any patient! And, this does not matter if you are Prince or just a regular Joe on the street! There was no reason from Prince's clan to contact a doctor in California. Period!!

.

And you know the sad part about all of this, is that if Prince's inner circle chose PLAN A (which would have been a helluva lot easier), instead of PLAN B -- he most likely would still be with us!!

.

Who the hell cares if you picked up the phone and got Prince into a local treatment facility against his will. So what? So, he will be upset with you, but you just might have SAVED HIS LIFE, and he would be thanking you later!

.

I work in the medical field. Yes, doctor's and any medical personnel are not to discuss the specifics of a case with anyone as it is protected by HIPAA. However, I can also guarantee you that they do talk, with each other, with other people in the office, someone else overhears it, and then they talk, and before you know, people know that shouldn't know.

As for getting him treatment against his will, that wouldn't happen, and it sure enough would not have happened in time to prevent what happened from happening. They would have to go to court and prove that Prince was incapacitated or incompetent to make decisions. When it comes to drug usage, it is seen as a lifestyle choice and more often than not the courts will throw it out saying the individual has the right to make their lifestyle choice.

cloveringold85 said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

disch said: But prince was not dead when dr korn was called and then implemented the dumbest intervention plan I have ever heard of, so you think that is irrelevant, lots of us do not

.

Lovesymbol: Amen to that!!

.

Prince was still ALIVE when all their little "planning" was going on.

.

Actually, breaking federal laws and unethical behavior is VERY relevant to Prince's death!!

.

Help came too late.......where's the accountability?

Who is to be held accountable? Prince's camp who was calling around to find someone to treat Prince? The doctors that had done blood work and wrote prescriptions to help with the withdrawal symptoms? The doctor that was not yet Prince's doctor, but told Prince's camp to get someone local to help stabilize him, and then sent his son on a redeye to get there as soon as possible?

Ultimately, it still comes down to the fact that Prince would be alive if he had not taken a pain pill that contained fentanyl. That's it. That is the cause of the death, accidental overdose of fentanyl. The one that should be held accountable is unknown yet, and that is the manufacturer of that pill.

cloveringold85 said:

PennyPurple said:

Prince wasn't even Dr. K's patient. They hadn't even examined him, seen him, or laid hands on him.

.

Prince hadn't even accepted going thru their treatment program. They never met with Prince.

.

None of this is the Kornfields fault. If Princes crew were so worried they should've called 911 or got him to the drug treatment place right up the road.

.

Penny: But you must understand, that Dr. K and Dr. S were both communicating with each other and well-aware of Prince's condition, so they both have to take some responsibility here, do you not agree?

.

Am I the only person (well, besides a few others here) that see's there is a ethical and moral responsibility that these doctor's need to uphold?

What you aren't seeing is that they upheld their moral and ethical obligations. Dr. S had seen Prince on the 20th. Dr. K had spoken with the representatives and told them to get someone local to make sure Prince was stable. They could not hold Prince against his wishes, nor could the force treatment on him, because Prince also has the right of self-determination. So, do we take his rights to force a treatment on him that he may not want because it's what we want?

They cannot force treatment on someone unless they prove that person is not capable of making decisions. That would be rather difficult in Prince's case.

Also, it was not Prince's condition that took him away from us. It was a pill that had an a fatal amount of another drug mixed in it that took Prince's life. They were getting him seen to, they were doing everything they could. What none of them could have forseen and prevented was the fact that the pain medication he took at the end had a lethal dose of fentanyl in it. There is no amount of planning or seeing a doctor or getting treatment that could have foreseen that Prince would take a medication that was lethal due to the way that medication was made.

benni said:

precioux said:

I know this may be a silly question, but will we ever see the light of day on the "answers" to the warrants and what was revealed/discovered...

ISLIJAG?

No. Not unless an unnamed source comes forward with the information from

the investigative file.

benni said:

laurarichardson said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

laurarichardson said: Bet the usual will not see an issue with this either....how then does an out patient dr in Cali intend to treat a patient in Minnesota? What were they really up to?... I think we all know that answer.

It does not make any sense he could have received the same care from Hazelton down the road or just stay in the local hospital and be under Dr. S care. Something does not add up about the whole thing. A lot of lose ends, weird people, and just plain old crooks hanging around.

Yes he could. But that would also mean too much exposure. Remember, he was a loved community member. Word would get out. Unfortunately, I'm pretty certain Prince would have wanted his rehabilitation to remain as private as his addiction. An out of town doctor would allow for more privacy, perhaps.

Well, we do know that if he had wanted to be in Hazelden or any other rehab clinic/program, he would have checked himself in. The fact that he didn't seems to indicate he didn't want that, for whatever reason.

laurarichardson said:

Where is this idea coming from that he is being difficult?

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

precioux said:

I know this may be a silly question, but will we ever see the light of day on the "answers" to the warrants and what was revealed/discovered...

ISLIJAG?

No. Not unless an unnamed source comes forward with the information from

the investigative file.

In regards to this I agree with Laura: someone will talk, sooner or later.

cloveringold85 said:

PennyPurple said:

Prince wasn't even Dr. K's patient. They hadn't even examined him, seen him, or laid hands on him.

.

Prince hadn't even accepted going thru their treatment program. They never met with Prince.

.

None of this is the Kornfields fault. If Princes crew were so worried they should've called 911 or got him to the drug treatment place right up the road.

.

Penny: But you must understand, that Dr. K and Dr. S were both communicating with each other and well-aware of Prince's condition, so they both have to take some responsibility here, do you not agree?

.

Am I the only person (well, besides a few others here) that see's there is a ethical and moral responsibility that these doctor's need to uphold?

What you aren't seeing is that they upheld their moral and ethical obligations. Dr. S had seen Prince on the 20th. Dr. K had spoken with the representatives and told them to get someone local to make sure Prince was stable. They could not hold Prince against his wishes, nor could the force treatment on him, because Prince also has the right of self-determination. So, do we take his rights to force a treatment on him that he may not want because it's what we want?

They cannot force treatment on someone unless they prove that person is not capable of making decisions. That would be rather difficult in Prince's case.

Also, it was not Prince's condition that took him away from us. It was a pill that had an a fatal amount of another drug mixed in it that took Prince's life. They were getting him seen to, they were doing everything they could. What none of them could have forseen and prevented was the fact that the pain medication he took at the end had a lethal dose of fentanyl in it. There is no amount of planning or seeing a doctor or getting treatment that could have foreseen that Prince would take a medication that was lethal due to the way that medication was made.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Penny: But you must understand, that Dr. K and Dr. S were both communicating with each other and well-aware of Prince's condition, so they both have to take some responsibility here, do you not agree?

.

Am I the only person (well, besides a few others here) that see's there is a ethical and moral responsibility that these doctor's need to uphold?

For the 100th time yes ....!!!agree with you. And to add to this-from what ISLIJAG had said, an out patient Dr in Cali sends his son to treat someone in MN is just ridiculous. Zena, I like your Nanny Anyone else Notice on Andrews warrant is where there is reference to Ps hand and neck swabs....it was put as evidence under him and no where else. [Edited 4/25/17 12:34pm]

.

Regarding the neck and hand swabs; I don't know what to think about that one. It does seem rather odd that they would do that, without good reason.

laurarichardson said:

benni said:

I work in the medical field. Yes, doctor's and any medical personnel are not to discuss the specifics of a case with anyone as it is protected by HIPAA. However, I can also guarantee you that they do talk, with each other, with other people in the office, someone else overhears it, and then they talk, and before you know, people know that shouldn't know.

As for getting him treatment against his will, that wouldn't happen, and it sure enough would not have happened in time to prevent what happened from happening. They would have to go to court and prove that Prince was incapacitated or incompetent to make decisions. When it comes to drug usage, it is seen as a lifestyle choice and more often than not the courts will throw it out saying the individual has the right to make their lifestyle choice.

-/He was getting withdrawal meds from Dr. S so he was getting treatment it even state this in the search warrant. Where is this idea coming from that he is being difficult? This narrative is just like the AIDS mess no proof but someone states it and it takes on a life of its own. I hate saying this but Kirk could have cleared up a lot if he had honest about what went on instead of telling lies. His statements would have been in the warrant and there would not be so much confusion.

I was addressing LoveSymbol's statement of "who the hell cares if you pick up the phone and get Prince in treatment against his will". There would not have been a credible way of doing that, is the point I was trying to make her.

cloveringold85 said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

cloveringold85 said: For the 100th time yes ....!!!agree with you. And to add to this-from what ISLIJAG had said, an out patient Dr in Cali sends his son to treat someone in MN is just ridiculous. Zena, I like your Nanny Anyone else Notice on Andrews warrant is where there is reference to Ps hand and neck swabs....it was put as evidence under him and no where else. [Edited 4/25/17 12:34pm]

.

Regarding the neck and hand swabs; I don't know what to think about that one. It does seem rather odd that they would do that, without good reason.

Those are routine in an investigation in which there is no immediate known cause of death. The neck will usually have DNA if there was any kind of altercation, as will the hands.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

benni said:

.

Penny: But you must understand, that Dr. K and Dr. S were both communicating with each other and well-aware of Prince's condition, so they both have to take some responsibility here, do you not agree?

.

Am I the only person (well, besides a few others here) that see's there is a ethical and moral responsibility that these doctor's need to uphold?

What you aren't seeing is that they upheld their moral and ethical obligations. Dr. S had seen Prince on the 20th. Dr. K had spoken with the representatives and told them to get someone local to make sure Prince was stable. They could not hold Prince against his wishes, nor could the force treatment on him, because Prince also has the right of self-determination. So, do we take his rights to force a treatment on him that he may not want because it's what we want?

They cannot force treatment on someone unless they prove that person is not capable of making decisions. That would be rather difficult in Prince's case.

Also, it was not Prince's condition that took him away from us. It was a pill that had an a fatal amount of another drug mixed in it that took Prince's life. They were getting him seen to, they were doing everything they could. What none of them could have forseen and prevented was the fact that the pain medication he took at the end had a lethal dose of fentanyl in it. There is no amount of planning or seeing a doctor or getting treatment that could have foreseen that Prince would take a medication that was lethal due to the way that medication was made.

[/r what is your desperate need to make this all good, this was a shit show from start to finish, every single person involved FAILED! I am in the medial field as well and what you have stated about princes medical care is your opinion, as you probably have guessed I disagree in full

I don't have a desparate need to make this good. I agree, this whole situation sucks. However, I do know, from working in the medical field, that the doctors did everything they were morally and ethically and legally responsible to do. What is your desparate need to blame the doctors, when the fault lies with the manufacturer of the pill and whoever Prince got the pill from?

benni said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Lovesymbol: THANK YOU!! This is what I've been trying to say, but no one listens to reason!

.

I read that exact article you are speaking about. And, what Willenbring said is what any ethical and moral doctor would say! And, people are arguing about this "privacy" bullshit -- give me a damn break already! Doctor's have to obide by privacy and confidentiality laws and they cannot discuss any treatment of any patient! And, this does not matter if you are Prince or just a regular Joe on the street! There was no reason from Prince's clan to contact a doctor in California. Period!!

.

And you know the sad part about all of this, is that if Prince's inner circle chose PLAN A (which would have been a helluva lot easier), instead of PLAN B -- he most likely would still be with us!!

.

Who the hell cares if you picked up the phone and got Prince into a local treatment facility against his will. So what? So, he will be upset with you, but you just might have SAVED HIS LIFE, and he would be thanking you later!

.

I work in the medical field. Yes, doctor's and any medical personnel are not to discuss the specifics of a case with anyone as it is protected by HIPAA. However, I can also guarantee you that they do talk, with each other, with other people in the office, someone else overhears it, and then they talk, and before you know, people know that shouldn't know.

As for getting him treatment against his will, that wouldn't happen, and it sure enough would not have happened in time to prevent what happened from happening. They would have to go to court and prove that Prince was incapacitated or incompetent to make decisions. When it comes to drug usage, it is seen as a lifestyle choice and more often than not the courts will throw it out saying the individual has the right to make their lifestyle choice.

.

I just think it is ridiculous to have that kind of mind set regarding Prince worrying about his treatment getting out to the public, when his LIFE was at stake!

.

I know a person has to be willing to seek help and get treatment, however, when his associates and both Dr. K and Dr. S considered Prince to be having a serious medial issue and/or emergency, and did not react immediately, that is where I have a problem.

.

If someone overdoses, you don't just stand around and wait for it happen again.

benni said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Lovesymbol: Amen to that!!

.

Prince was still ALIVE when all their little "planning" was going on.

.

Actually, breaking federal laws and unethical behavior is VERY relevant to Prince's death!!

.

Help came too late.......where's the accountability?

Who is to be held accountable? Prince's camp who was calling around to find someone to treat Prince? The doctors that had done blood work and wrote prescriptions to help with the withdrawal symptoms? The doctor that was not yet Prince's doctor, but told Prince's camp to get someone local to help stabilize him, and then sent his son on a redeye to get there as soon as possible?

Ultimately, it still comes down to the fact that Prince would be alive if he had not taken a pain pill that contained fentanyl. That's it. That is the cause of the death, accidental overdose of fentanyl. The one that should be held accountable is unknown yet, and that is the manufacturer of that pill.

.

Like I said before, you and I have a difference of opinion on this subject. Can we just agree to disagree?

.

You feel the way you do, and I feel the way I do and there is nothing that is going to change my mind.

.

Like I said, Dr. K and Andrew did not have to do what they did. They are responsible for their own actions as two adults, are they not? Are you saying that it's okay that they broke the law?

.

Like I said, (and others as well), you don't send your med student son on a plane from CA with drugs he does not have a license to carry, nor was he qualified to treat Prince, or anyone else!

.

I think we've discusses this subject enough. We're just running in circles here and not getting anywhere.

cloveringold85 said:

benni said:

I work in the medical field. Yes, doctor's and any medical personnel are not to discuss the specifics of a case with anyone as it is protected by HIPAA. However, I can also guarantee you that they do talk, with each other, with other people in the office, someone else overhears it, and then they talk, and before you know, people know that shouldn't know.

As for getting him treatment against his will, that wouldn't happen, and it sure enough would not have happened in time to prevent what happened from happening. They would have to go to court and prove that Prince was incapacitated or incompetent to make decisions. When it comes to drug usage, it is seen as a lifestyle choice and more often than not the courts will throw it out saying the individual has the right to make their lifestyle choice.

.

I just think it is ridiculous to have that kind of mind set regarding Prince worrying about his treatment getting out to the public, when his LIFE was at stake!

.

I know a person has to be willing to seek help and get treatment, however, when his associates and both Dr. K and Dr. S considered Prince to be having a serious medial issue and/or emergency, and did not react immediately, that is where I have a problem.

.

If someone overdoses, you don't just stand around and wait for it happen again.

Dr. S and Dr. K could only act after they were notified. Dr. S was not a regular doctor for Prince and neither was Dr. K. Prince didn't have a regular doctor, from what I can gather from what we've learned. Prince's camp and Prince himself would then need to be responsible to reach out for assistance from a doctor, which they eventually did do. I believe Dr. K was contacted on the 20th and Dr. S did see Prince on the 20th, so they were moving forward and doing what they could to treat Prince.

And what everyone keeps losing sight of is that it was not addiction that killed Prince. If he had not gotten the fentanyl laced pills, chances are he would have gotten treatment and would still be with us. His camp and the doctors put a lot in place within a very short amount of time (for the doctors, within a matter of hours of being notified). But Prince did not die from drug addiction, he died from an ACCIDENTAL OVERDOSE of FENTANYL. It was the fentanyl that did him in, not the pain medication he'd been taking all along, but some pills that were laced with or cut with or however you want to word it, with Fentanyl. It would have been as likely that Prince could have just started taking pain medication and not been addicted and if he would have gotten ahold of those same pills, the same thing would have happened to him. It wasn't addiction that killed him, so being treated for addiction is a moot point. What killed him was fentanyl laced pills.

He could have gone in for treatment, and those pills remained at Paisley, then when he got home, had severe pain one time, decided to take a pill and have the same thing happen. It was those particular pills that did him in. It wasn't lack of treatment. It wasn't anything the doctor's did wrong or right. It was the fentanyl laced pills. Period.

cloveringold85 said:

benni said:

Who is to be held accountable? Prince's camp who was calling around to find someone to treat Prince? The doctors that had done blood work and wrote prescriptions to help with the withdrawal symptoms? The doctor that was not yet Prince's doctor, but told Prince's camp to get someone local to help stabilize him, and then sent his son on a redeye to get there as soon as possible?

Ultimately, it still comes down to the fact that Prince would be alive if he had not taken a pain pill that contained fentanyl. That's it. That is the cause of the death, accidental overdose of fentanyl. The one that should be held accountable is unknown yet, and that is the manufacturer of that pill.

.

Like I said before, you and I have a difference of opinion on this subject. Can we just agree to disagree?

.

You feel the way you do, and I feel the way I do and there is nothing that is going to change my mind.

.

Like I said, Dr. K and Andrew did not have to do what they did. They are responsible for their own actions as two adults, are they not? Are you saying that it's okay that they broke the law?

.

Like I said, (and others as well), you don't send your med student son on a plane from CA with drugs he does not have a license to carry, nor was he qualified to treat Prince, or anyone else!

.

I think we've discusses this subject enough. We're just running in circles here and not getting anywhere.

But he didn't treat Prince. That is the point. Since he didn't treat Prince he is not responsible for Prince's death.

Yes, he should be held accountable for transporting controlled substances across the state lines, since he is not a doctor. However, they would have to prove his intent was to give that medication to Prince and that the medication did not come from his own medicine cabinet and was not prescribed to him personally. Which they can do easily, and I'm sure they have verified that in one way or another. He will be (hopefully) held accountable for that.

I don't disagree with that. I do disagree that the blame for Prince's death should then be on the heads of Dr. K and Andrew. They didn't treat him, so they do not hold any responsibility for that.

benni said:

laurarichardson said:

benni said: -/He was getting withdrawal meds from Dr. S so he was getting treatment it even state this in the search warrant. Where is this idea coming from that he is being difficult? This narrative is just like the AIDS mess no proof but someone states it and it takes on a life of its own. I hate saying this but Kirk could have cleared up a lot if he had honest about what went on instead of telling lies. His statements would have been in the warrant and there would not be so much confusion.

I was addressing LoveSymbol's statement of "who the hell cares if you pick up the phone and get Prince in treatment against his will". There would not have been a credible way of doing that, is the point I was trying to make her.

.

"Who the hell cares" was actually my statement. Just for clarification.

--cloveringold85