No, it is not evidence that he is a murder but you said this "There's literally no evidence or reason to believe that Andrew did anything malicious whatsoever and, as I mentioned before, I think it's kind of irresponsible to continue to insinuate this."

I do not agree with the malicious part because we really do not know what his plans were. Andrew makes no mention of who was suppose to administer those drugs. If Andrew could not do it and Dr. S could not do it then who? Nothing in the warrant tells us if there was another doctor coming.

If Pheadra called Dr. K how did she know to contact him and why? Why is she now trying to distance herself from Prince's organization by saying she stopped working for him in 2015 when her name is all over LLC documents and transactions? Did she have POA for Prince?

Why did Andrew have so many drugs? If they did not come from Recovery Without Walls were did they come from? Who was going to administer them? How can you give someone these drugs without running test on the spot? Andrew or Dr. S would have no idea what drugs he took the night before I am sure that if these people adminstered him their drugs he would have been sicker or fucking died before he got to Recovery Without Walls.

You are so busy trying to lay blame for this fiasco on Prince that you do not want to see that all parties on April 21st were being asshats and/or shady. One person we know was sick what was the excuse for the other people? Perhaps money!! Because I know the first thing I would not do if my best just died is jump on my cellphone to make a call and do some texting and them rush off to my vaction (if KJ even went on vacation ) My guess is KJ went to clean up his own house but it looks like no one bothered to search his home or his person so he had no worries.

disch said:

So because he broke a law by carrying opioid withdrawal drugs with him that's evidence he's a murderer? I'm genuinely curious to hear your yes/no answer to that ... laurarichardson said:

He broke federal laws.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

Mumio said:

My comments aren't directed at the original poster, anyone can respond.

What's wrong with that picture??? I'll answer: with the issues people thought they were dealing with, WHY would they contact a "well known environmental and labor activist" when looking for assistance in dealing with a grave medical situation??? Makes no sense whatsoever. None. I'm gonna throw it out there: false information.

[Edited 4/24/17 19:08pm]

Phaedra has conflicting dates with when she worked with Prince. She has been caught lying, and had settled out of court recently with the Estate. She was one of three people with Prince at the WB meeting to get his masters back And some questioned if she may have been Ps POA.

She is trying to say she stopped working for him in 2015. Yet her name appears as the manager of the LLC for registration in Ca in January of 2016 and she is the one that contacted the real estate agent about buying the purple house in January of 2016. Now media reports are that she contacted Dr. K in April of 2016 and that she might have been his POA on the Tidal deal.

Why is she lying and trying to back away from her employment with Prince? Where did the payments in April and November that Tidal sent to Prince go since Breamer/McMillian claim only one payment of $750,000.00 was paid?

With the WSJ article today and the taped phone converstation with Koppelmen in the court papers yesterday who cannot see the number of vultures involved. I am sorry if Prince was dealing with withdrawals he was not on his boss game so I believe people took advantage. I believe numerous people are still taking advantage to get money. More stuff is going to come out and you will see more was going on then just drug issues.

The ones with KJ's name on them were not couterfeit

disch said:

Most of the pills found were reportedly counterfeit. You don't need prescriptions for those.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said: we don't know out of the hundred pills found How many may have been put there by someone else, Andrew or ?? Just questions. Prince did not have that many prescriptions written out. Do you or anyone know if the prescriptions written out to Prince were on the warrant?

She was not his manager. She managed the LLC.

disch said:

You're right, she's not. But she was Prince's manager for some period of time starting in 2014. So for whatever reason he trusted her for that role, so he must have respected her judgment.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Disch, I like what you say but Phaedra isnt a lawyer.

Dr S had already written him Rx for similar meds the day before. Why would he need? The pain pills were in his belongings were written for Kirk.

disch said:

Per the warrant, Andrew had these medications with him in his backpack (to the best of my reading of the messy warrant handwriting):

• 11 Suboxone pills (N2): used to ease opioid withdrawal symptoms (Suboxone is a brand name)
• 5 buprenorphine pills (54411): the main ingredient in Suboxone; eases opioid withdrawal symptoms
• 2 promethazine suppositories: used to treat nausea and vomiting (also can ease allergies, hives and is a sleep aid); nausea is a common withdrawal symptom
• 6 lorazepam pills (457): an anti-anxiety medication, which are commonly used as part of an opioid withdrawal protocol

-

There were no opioids listed on the warrant inventory.

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

cloveringold85 said: Yes it does seem staged...and still Andrew went into PP with more???

[Edited 4/24/17 19:31pm]

laurarichardson said:

I think Andrew is off the hook here. He didn't do anything to Prince or apparently to the site. The story was originally that someone from Prince's camp called a person in New York - I have never read who was called - who said to call California. And then it came out that Phaedra made the call to Dr. Kornfeld. Or did she? It is now revealed that the female California lawyer participated in the WB discussions/negotiations as well. I am sure, because Hazelden is basically down the street from PP, that everyone around Prince wanted to keep this out of the news so they were trying to conceal the whole process by bringing in someone from out of state. I still, though, do not forgive them for leaving him alone.

said:

Laura, there's no need to get nasty. If your question was "why did Andrew bring an anti-nausea drug and an anti-anxiety drug with him," my guess is that those drugs are part of his dad's standard suboxone-based withdrawal protocol so he just brought the whole she-bang with him. And the last day of Prince's life sounds like it might have been fairly chaotic and who knows if he and Dr S were sitting around coordinating their medication.

-

As for "laws not applying": This is a political discussion so I won't say much, but yes I'm opposed to the government's pursuit of mass incarceration generally; I don't think using taxpayer dollars to prosecute and imprison someone like Andrew is a good use of those resources. I know you're a very strong supporter of mass incarceration and an 1980s-style "drug war" approach, because you've spoken of that a lot, so we're probably just in very different places politically on that issue.

laurarichardson said:

Of course you wish him luck because the laws do not apply to some people with certain previlages. Notice you did not answer any of my questions. -/// said:

The main thing Andrew had was the suboxone which dr s didn't prescribed. As for the other 2 drugs sounds like he just grabbed them as he was heading out the door. Anyway I got nothing more to say about Andrew. There's no reason to think he wasn't a well meaning guy and most importantly, his backpack contents, or amyfhing else about him, played no role in princes death. I don't feel like if Andrew was imprisoned that would bring "justice" for prince or that the nation would be a safer, less opioid addicted place. Hopefully med school works out well for him.

laurarichardson said:

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

laurarichardson said:

Of course you wish him luck because the laws do not apply to some people with certain previlages. Notice you did not answer any of my questions. -/// said:

I also still think the korns contributed to the cluster f*ck, just by saying yes, if they had said no and local help was obtained, it is possible prince would not have taken the fentanyl because he would have already been in treatment. I actually don't think Andrew is responsible, even though he clearly broke the law by caring out his father direction. His father is at fault, Andrew is basically a boy that his father sent for pretty inexplicable reasons, I do not believe Andrew did anything his father did not know about. All of those accolades that were written about dr k's program in the media,were taken directly from there own web page, not independent opinions. I wondered why dr k would not send another doctor instead of a child, and the reason is dr k is the only md at his facility. He has a staff of four including one nurse, one physiologist, dr k, and his son, pretty bare bones staff for such an "leader in his industry". Dr k should have know better and adhered to his hypocratic oath of "do no harm" over wanting the bragging rights of having been the doctor that got prince clean...he definitely put a log on a fire that was already burning

Taking on a patient like Prince was a big deal and probably one Dr K did not want to turn his back to. Perhaps he was indeed unavailable and told his son to go immediately so as not to miss that chance or he did not want to get caught up in anything dodgy (imagine whoever called him told him Prince was taking illegal stuff) and sent his son instead, who is not a doctor yet.

Mumio said:

precioux said:

Mumio said: AP is not a reliable source? Funny, that's where the original info about and in regards to all pills found at PP were divulged in detail, before the warrants were unsealed. Also, in reading the thread I posted, not only did Prince acknowledge Phaedra as his attorney, and someone he obviously trusted implicitly (maybe the reason she was called by the associates?) But throughout the entire thread it stated she was his attorney and pics were posted of her. Your question originally was why call her(?) apparently she was someone he trusted and possibly had POA. I will research the links you've added. Curious as to why not only Prince but others as well referred to Phaedra as his attorney if this was incorrect? Makes no sense

No, I don't consider any news source infallible, just consider how this whole last year has gone and the media coverage with it and it's clear that correct information and reliability has been sorely lacking.

Someone else looked at that story you linked to and said they found it had been corrected at some point, so AP definitely wasn't reliable in this instance, but at least did correct their error. Again, Phaedra was not his attorney, she does not identify as an attorney, does not claim to have any law degree, and it's obviously an error that was made numerous times. That's how it happens, one person gives incorrect info and others copy and then do the same. Clearly, Prince was misquoted in his reference to who Phaedra was since she was his manager.

Thanks for the correction, Muimo-and sorry for the "Wrong!"

I honestly don't know what to make of the "associates calling" because of a medical emergency. I think the statement given by Mauzy was to CYA. In all actuality, this trip made by Dr.K's son was SOOO underhanded, maybe the associates may have called, but P would only agree to how it came about...in order to protect his identity. This was not above board by any stretch. Furthermore, people here are asking "what would Dr.K's son have to gain?" I'm not insinuating he had anything to do with P's death, BUT, the question should be "what did Dr.K's son have to lose?" Think about it, he never even met P, and is "riding dirty" with the pills "from his medicine cabinet"(yeah,right) and is a med student...he could've been finished right then and there...especially had P been alive and passed in his "care"

Peace

PeteSilas said:

Mumio said:

I don't think the story would have played out any differently regardless of anything that anyone did, no heroic measures...nothing. I'm not planning to get into second-guessing anyone but I just found this part of the story to not really fit, it doesn't make sense to have taken this action, and that was what my point was from the beginning. I brought it up because I wondered who else felt that way. The info was put out there but I think it is false information.

who knows, maybe fate is fate and he was just meant to go then. I for one found it real interesting when not one but two different posters said they had the same premonition five years before Prince died, that "he'd be dead in five years". what to make of that? I don't know but they were right. The only thing i'm comforted by is that Prince was a courageous man, just like the man who died not long after, muhammad Ali, it wasn't either I was worried about in terms of dealing with the process, it really is the rest of us who have lost out in some fashion. I do think Prince would probably be at peace with things, as i've said several times. It's still a mysterious death, it goes against everything that I know about the man in my 30 plus years of being a fan and i still think that other factors, terminal illness could have been the reason behind it. I still can't see a guy who had the constitution to defeat the need for biological functions that limit the rest of us (sleep,work, exhaustion,food) i can't see why he couldn't handle a little pain or a little withdrawal. He wasn't like the rest of us. Little Richard Claims he quit heroin,coke and everything else, cold turkey, men like that are not like us. Hell, even Ray Charles has stated that his heroin addiction and the withdrawals in a hospital were overdramatized. those guys are strong people, they are not like the norm. Any great athlete, great scholar or great anything doesn't get there by not being able to access inhuman reserves. Don't believe me? check out franco columbo bust his knee clean out of socket on youtube and speak about it a couple minutes later as calmly as he would speak on anything. those kinds of guys are a different breed.

...add to that list Miles Davis.He went cold turkey as well. Great post, Pete

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

PurpleDiamonds1 said:

He could have brought the fatal pill...we don't know and this has been discussed many times.

Because Andrew wanted to go to prison for life, or in your scenario get the death penalty to

kill a man he had never met.

His plane didn't arrive in MN until 6am. P was gone before that, if he would've brought that fatal pill to P that would mean he would have flown to MN earlier...gave P the pill...flew back to CA to make it look like he'd not been there before...and then go on another fly back to MN that landed at 6am. Because I'm sure that the investigators verified when Andrew landed in MN. Highly unlikely, possible I suppose, but I doubt it.

said:

I think it's all irrelevant because Prince was definitely dead by the time Andrew's plane landed and likely dead before it even took off from San Fran.

laurarichardson said:

Don't you think Dr.K should have been coordinating with Dr.S? That is what component doctors are suppose to do. The laws I am referring to bringing controlled substances across state lines these are federal laws. I think laws should be applied equally across the board if Andrew were anyone else he would have been in cuffs along time ago by the DEA. I do not he or his quack dad should get a pass. I am also sure Dr.S will get a pass for his questionable treatment of Prince's withdrawals and he will not see a blemish on his recorded unless the family comes after him which is unlikely. KJ may take a hit but trust me this country has a long history of not caring when black folk die. KJ can work at Paisley Park, drive P's car and date JH and no one will bat an eyeball. --- said:

Laura, there's no need to get nasty. If your question was "why did Andrew bring an anti-nausea drug and an anti-anxiety drug with him," my guess is that those drugs are part of his dad's standard suboxone-based withdrawal protocol so he just brought the whole she-bang with him. And the last day of Prince's life sounds like it might have been fairly chaotic and who knows if he and Dr S were sitting around coordinating their medication.

-

As for "laws not applying": This is a political discussion so I won't say much, but yes I'm opposed to the government's pursuit of mass incarceration generally; I don't think using taxpayer dollars to prosecute and imprison someone like Andrew is a good use of those resources. I know you're a very strong supporter of mass incarceration and an 1980s-style "drug war" approach, because you've spoken of that a lot, so we're probably just in very different places politically on that issue.

disch said:

laurarichardson said:

Don't you think Dr.K should have been coordinating with Dr.S? That is what component doctors are suppose to do. The laws I am referring to bringing controlled substances across state lines these are federal laws. I think laws should be applied equally across the board if Andrew were anyone else he would have been in cuffs along time ago by the DEA. I do not he or his quack dad should get a pass. I am also sure Dr.S will get a pass for his questionable treatment of Prince's withdrawals and he will not see a blemish on his recorded unless the family comes after him which is unlikely. KJ may take a hit but trust me this country has a long history of not caring when black folk die. KJ can work at Paisley Park, drive P's car and date JH and no one will bat an eyeball. --- said:

I thought Dr K DID coordinate care with Dr. S. Dr. K told Dr. S to make sure Prince was stable and they discussed it.

Prince wasn't even Dr. K's patient. They hadn't even examined him, seen him, or laid hands on him.

.

Prince hadn't even accepted going thru their treatment program. They never met with Prince.

.

None of this is the Kornfields fault. If Princes crew were so worried they should've called 911 or got him to the drug treatment place right up the road.

Dr S actually SAW Prince April 20 in person, and prescribed him medication in order to presumably get his situation under control until Dr. K could get someone out from California. If you want to blame a doctor for not addressing the situation urgently enough, I would think Dr. S. would be a better target.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

disch said:

I think it's all irrelevant because Prince was definitely dead by the time Andrew's plane landed and likely dead before it even took off from San Fran.

But prince was not dead when dr korn was called and then implemented the dumbest intervention plan I have ever heard of, so you think that is irrelevant, lots of us do not

1Sasha said:

I think Andrew is off the hook here. He didn't do anything to Prince or apparently to the site. The story was originally that someone from Prince's camp called a person in New York - I have never read who was called - who said to call California. And then it came out that Phaedra made the call to Dr. Kornfeld. Or did she? It is now revealed that the female California lawyer participated in the WB discussions/negotiations as well. I am sure, because Hazelden is basically down the street from PP, that everyone around Prince wanted to keep this out of the news so they were trying to conceal the whole process by bringing in someone from out of state. I still, though, do not forgive them for leaving him alone.

"A staff member reached out to Prince's FORMER manager Phardra Ellis-Lamkins in New York at 6 am on April 20, the day before he died"..."she was the one who contacted Dr. Howard Kornfeld less than 12 hours before Prince's death", the Tribune reported. (In this article it also states that "Prince received IV treatment at a local hospital the day before death" (I thought I had read that P had been given IV fluids the day before, but did not want to post without a reference)

NotACleverName said:

Mumio said:

NotACleverName said:

Mumio said:

Hahahaahahahaahaha! I am just trying to get an answer to my question but it's been pretty difficult.

I get that....but it doesn't appear anyone has the answer you're looking for. And, why did you spell it "law"bor.....intentional? Shite. I feel like I'm on a freakin' game show.

Hahahahahahahaha!!!!! It's a little weird

My whole point is this really: it is completely inappropriate and very ill-advised to call an environment and labor activist about a grave medical situation. We aren't just talking about someone with a cold, it's a serious situation. And because it is a serious situation, this scenario makes no sense at all. I feel pretty strongly that it is false information. I am not saying anyone here made it up, but it's just not believable at all given the circumstances.

Ah ha! I see. I agree....it was a very serious situation. But, given what we know about Prince and his "unwillingness" to accept advice, shall I say, I feel it makes perfect sense. Add to that her response when questioned about the "call". She didn't say "no, I didn't make the call" but rather, she deflected. For me, that speaks volumes.

Btw....thanks for the fun! Laughter is good for the soul!

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

We have no idea about his willingness to accept advice but we know he went willing to see Dr. S and it appears he was trying to withdraw so I do not believe all of this was about not listening not that people around would have any medical knowledge.

NotACleverName said:

Ah ha! I see. I agree....it was a very serious situation. But, given what we know about Prince and his "unwillingness" to accept advice, shall I say, I feel it makes perfect sense. Add to that her response when questioned about the "call". She didn't say "no, I didn't make the call" but rather, she deflected. For me, that speaks volumes.

Btw....thanks for the fun! Laughter is good for the soul!

disch said:

zenarose said:

disch said:

Dr S actually SAW Prince April 20 in person, and prescribed him medication in order to presumably get his situation under control until Dr. K could get someone out from California. If you want to blame a doctor for not addressing the situation urgently enough, I would think Dr. S. would be a better target.

DISCH: Wasn't it reported early on that there was "A" Doctor that had cleared his schedule to be on standby to evaluate P "IF" P decided to go to rehab?? It was never stated or verified that Dr. S was that Doctor. I would believe that it would have had to be someone with that special license to be able to administer the Suboxone that Andrew brought. Dr. S just brought test results.

Dr. S could have been that doctor. He could have waited for Prince and decided to take the blood results himself since it was an urgent matter and Prince not showing up for that follow up appointment probably meant he was not taking rehab/treatment seriously. Just some thoughts.

precioux said:

1Sasha said:

I think Andrew is off the hook here. He didn't do anything to Prince or apparently to the site. The story was originally that someone from Prince's camp called a person in New York - I have never read who was called - who said to call California. And then it came out that Phaedra made the call to Dr. Kornfeld. Or did she? It is now revealed that the female California lawyer participated in the WB discussions/negotiations as well. I am sure, because Hazelden is basically down the street from PP, that everyone around Prince wanted to keep this out of the news so they were trying to conceal the whole process by bringing in someone from out of state. I still, though, do not forgive them for leaving him alone.

"A staff member reached out to Prince's FORMER manager Phardra Ellis-Lamkins in New York at 6 am on April 20, the day before he died"..."she was the one who contacted Dr. Howard Kornfeld less than 12 hours before Prince's death", the Tribune reported. (In this article it also states that "Prince received IV treatment at a local hospital the day before death" (I thought I had read that P had been given IV fluids the day before, but did not want to post without a reference)

Thank you. I knew about the fluids on the 20th. What a mess this all is.

I think hindsight is 20/20 and there were opportunities all along for things to have gone differently. But perhaps those involved felt that whatever treatment Prince received from Dr S (and/or at the hospital) on April 20 had gotten the situation under control enough to last through the next day.

-

And ultimately it was Prince's call what care he received, so I have to imagine that the treatment choices were reflective of his preferences.

LOVESYMBOLNUMBER2 said:

why the stupid chain of this doctor, that doctor, these drugs from this one to that one? Do you guys really think it would not have been better if dr k said, call my colleague down the street from you, he has the suboxone and is authorized to administer it. That's what the f*ck up is, Dr k apparently called some dr somewhere to do something, why not just call a Minnesota dr that could handle it in total right now. If prince did not know about the intervention,what would be the difference if a doctor, not a "representative " walked through the door and said the exact thing dr k was recommending, difference being, we can start right now, again, could maybe have saved princes life, but apparently that is not the most important detail.