Lovejunky said:

rogifan said:

Man I didn't think referring to Prince as a Christian would be a radical thing to say.

rogifan said:

Lovejunky said:

RE: Prince as a christian.

• If Prince were serious and devout about his study of the christian scripture he would not have studied,promoted or endorsed others belief systems. Why? Because the Jesus Christ of the christian bible states unequivically that there is only one god and that he, Jesus Christ, is that God. I think that is the part that throws people off.
• Same thing with JWs, who are not christians - they do not believe that Jesus is the Christ and therefore cannot be classified as christians. THe JW doctrine is very strict and narrowly defined. So when Prince started with the the 3rd eye imagegry etc it became clear,to this longterm fan and others, that he was leaving strict dogma, christian or otherwise, for the more esoteric teachings, which included demonology(the secrets of the ages).

gingerwildwood said:

RE: Prince as a christian.

• If Prince were serious and devout about his study of the christian scripture he would not have studied,promoted or endorsed others belief systems. Why? Because the Jesus Christ of the christian bible states unequivically that there is only one god and that he, Jesus Christ, is that God. I think that is the part that throws people off.
• Same thing with JWs, who are not christians - they do not believe that Jesus is the Christ and therefore cannot be classified as christians. THe JW doctrine is very strict and narrowly defined. So when Prince started with the the 3rd eye imagegry etc it became clear,to this longterm fan and others, that he was leaving strict dogma, christian or otherwise, for the more esoteric teachings, which included demonology(the secrets of the ages).

Erm...JWs most emphatically do teach that Jesus was "The Christ" and they are classified as a "Christian" religion.

[Edited 4/1/17 9:52am]

Uh, since when does studying other spiritual beliefs besides one's own mean that one doesn't have faith in one's own belief?

gingerwildwood said:

RE: Prince as a christian.

• If Prince were serious and devout about his study of the christian scripture he would not have studied,promoted or endorsed others belief systems. Why? Because the Jesus Christ of the christian bible states unequivically that there is only one god and that he, Jesus Christ, is that God. I think that is the part that throws people off.
• Same thing with JWs, who are not christians - they do not believe that Jesus is the Christ and therefore cannot be classified as christians. THe JW doctrine is very strict and narrowly defined. So when Prince started with the the 3rd eye imagegry etc it became clear,to this longterm fan and others, that he was leaving strict dogma, christian or otherwise, for the more esoteric teachings, which included demonology(the secrets of the ages).

For most people(not necessarily me) such things are mutually exclusive. It's either or.

Personally, I never thought that Prince was a christian. He was obviously based in protestant christianity like most mid-western americans are(I grew up there too) but he was not resolutley anything until he publically claimed the JW's.

And JW doctrine does not tolerate the kind of mixing and matching that Prince was doing in the last 10yrs or so.

I know that the JWs preach about christ but my conversations with them leave me thinking that they don't have a view of christ that is consistant with traditon christian scripture or belief.

purplethunder3121 said:

LBrent said:

rogifan said:

LBrent said:

Erm...JWs most emphatically do teach that Jesus was "The Christ" and they are classified as a "Christian" religion.

[Edited 4/1/17 9:52am]

In fact in that 2014 Rolling Stone interview Prince referred to Christ as "the Master".

I am an atheist myself and I do appreciate Jesus's teachings about love and acceptance even though I don't believe Jesus ever existed. Just because Prince appreciated Christ's teaching that doesn't mean he was a Christian. There has been no evidence that he was a Christian before he died. He said in the same interview that his views were expanding beyond his beliefs.

People once again think they know Prince based on his interviews alone and even at least a diehard fan should know P was full of contradictions. I spoke to some people in the industry via social media and messaging and they get a kick off of fans believed everyting a celebrity said in the media. Because celebrities all the time say stuff in the media to keep fans and public from knowing their private views. Even Jill Jones said on her Facebook page awhile back that Prince fooled fans all the time.

I think Prince was searching for answers, otherwise he wouldn't be reading and exploring Asian-based religions toward the end of his life.

rogifan said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Uh, since when does studying other spiritual beliefs besides one's own mean that one doesn't have faith in one's own belief?

This. Why do I get the feeling those who don't think Prince really was Christian are people who aren't themselves? I posted specific quotes from the man himself. And let's not forget that cover song 3EG did of "What If" which is a Christian song about Jesus.

If u were asking, I am a christian.

RE the cover of 'What if'- singing christians songs doesn't make you a christian anymore than fellowshipping with Catholics make me a Catholic. For me it's neither here nor there at this point because Prince has reached his final destination and i don't know where that is. And it's not my interest to guess. I try to to stick to what I have heard and read him say over the years. To my knowledge he never said "i'm a christian" and his behavoir suggests that he ws conflicted and non-comittal towards his religious upbringing as a protestant christian. Consequently,I have no reason to think/believe that he was a christian at any point in his life.

ladygirl99 said:

rogifan said:

LBrent said: In fact in that 2014 Rolling Stone interview Prince referred to Christ as "the Master".

I am an atheist myself and I do appreciate Jesus's teachings about love and acceptance even though I don't believe Jesus ever existed. Just because Prince appreciated Christ's teaching that doesn't mean he was a Christian. There has been no evidence that he was a Christian before he died. He said in the same interview that his views were expanding beyond his beliefs.

People once again think they know Prince based on his interviews alone and even at least a diehard fan should know P was full of contradictions. I spoke to some people in the industry via social media and messaging and they get a kick off of fans believed everyting a celebrity said in the media. Because celebrities all the time say stuff in the media to keep fans and public from knowing their private views. Even Jill Jones said on her Facebook page awhile back that Prince fooled fans all the time.

I think Prince was searching for answers, otherwise he wouldn't be reading and exploring Asian-based religions toward the end of his life.

Ms Berry stated he was moving away a bit from the Jw, she did not state anything else. From what I gather he loved lreaning about other religions and that love is not a new thing for him either. That does not mean he was thinking about becoming a buddhist or be a non christian.

gingerwildwood said:

RE: Prince as a christian.

• If Prince were serious and devout about his study of the christian scripture he would not have studied,promoted or endorsed others belief systems. Why? Because the Jesus Christ of the christian bible states unequivically that there is only one god and that he, Jesus Christ, is that God. I think that is the part that throws people off.
• Same thing with JWs, who are not christians - they do not believe that Jesus is the Christ and therefore cannot be classified as christians. THe JW doctrine is very strict and narrowly defined. So when Prince started with the the 3rd eye imagegry etc it became clear,to this longterm fan and others, that he was leaving strict dogma, christian or otherwise, for the more esoteric teachings, which included demonology(the secrets of the ages).

interesting, i just looked up demonology, it's wierd, once when I wrote a song on the subject of human misery, i was sick, a was in a dream state and i saw scenes of demons pushing people to do bad things. Reading up on the subject today i was reminded of that.

purplethunder3121 said:

ladygirl99 said:

PeteSilas said:

gingerwildwood said:

RE: Prince as a christian.

• If Prince were serious and devout about his study of the christian scripture he would not have studied,promoted or endorsed others belief systems. Why? Because the Jesus Christ of the christian bible states unequivically that there is only one god and that he, Jesus Christ, is that God. I think that is the part that throws people off.
• Same thing with JWs, who are not christians - they do not believe that Jesus is the Christ and therefore cannot be classified as christians. THe JW doctrine is very strict and narrowly defined. So when Prince started with the the 3rd eye imagegry etc it became clear,to this longterm fan and others, that he was leaving strict dogma, christian or otherwise, for the more esoteric teachings, which included demonology(the secrets of the ages).

interesting, i just looked up demonology, it's wierd, once when I wrote a song on the subject of human misery, i was sick, a was in a dream state and i saw scenes of demons pushing people to do bad things. Reading up on the subject today i was reminded of that.

I have done limited research on demonology and was surprised to see 'the secrets of the ages' was in his office. That's pretty hardcore stuff and very much tied to the kaballah practice as well as the secrets rites that include masonry. The implications aren't good. As you mentioned in your post it's easy to let the jeanie out of the bottle- not so easy to get it back in and shake off the effects. Yeah, Mr Nelson was definately on a quest.

>>>> For the record, I am not a conspiracy theorist<<<

I never said Prince was becoming a Buddhism and if people would educated themselves like Prince had there is more to Asian religions than Buddhism. I know people believes in God and doesn't care for religion because they said it divides people. To each their own.

laurarichardson said:

ladygirl99 said:

I am an atheist myself and I do appreciate Jesus's teachings about love and acceptance even though I don't believe Jesus ever existed. Just because Prince appreciated Christ's teaching that doesn't mean he was a Christian. There has been no evidence that he was a Christian before he died. He said in the same interview that his views were expanding beyond his beliefs.

People once again think they know Prince based on his interviews alone and even at least a diehard fan should know P was full of contradictions. I spoke to some people in the industry via social media and messaging and they get a kick off of fans believed everyting a celebrity said in the media. Because celebrities all the time say stuff in the media to keep fans and public from knowing their private views. Even Jill Jones said on her Facebook page awhile back that Prince fooled fans all the time.

I think Prince was searching for answers, otherwise he wouldn't be reading and exploring Asian-based religions toward the end of his life.

He talked about God to his family as Tyka has talked about him taking to a faith based rehab center and to his employees. Pointed his finger to the sky at every concert and sometimes went off into full preacher mode in concert. It had nothing to do with the media.

[Snip - luv4u]

purplethunder3121 said:

Uh, since when does studying other spiritual beliefs besides one's own mean that one doesn't have faith in one's own belief?

rogifan said:

LBrent said:

Erm...JWs most emphatically do teach that Jesus was "The Christ" and they are classified as a "Christian" religion.

[Edited 4/1/17 9:52am]

In fact in that 2014 Rolling Stone interview Prince referred to Christ as "the Master".

laurarichardson said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Uh, since when does studying other spiritual beliefs besides one's own mean that one doesn't have faith in one's own belief?

--I have not the foggiest fucking idea were this nosense is coming from.

Exactly!

Sheesh.

[Edited 4/1/17 17:58pm]

rogifan said:

purplethunder3121 said:

Uh, since when does studying other spiritual beliefs besides one's own mean that one doesn't have faith in one's own belief?

This. Why do I get the feeling those who don't think Prince really was Christian are people who aren't themselves? I posted specific quotes from the man himself. And let's not forget that cover song 3EG did of "What If" which is a Christian song about Jesus.

The Definition of being a Christian these days is very murky..

I know lots of people who declare themselves as such, yet lack compassion for their fellow human beings..they are the first to Judge others hatefully and harshly..

Hec..I see these "Christians" around here ..condeming and criticizing because they think that all it takes is a public declaration of their Christianity.

Id be ashamed to act like that in the Name of "Christianity"

What does it mean to be a Christian to Follow the Christ ?

Jesus said:

John 13:34-35

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

By that definition Prince most certainly is a Christian...and for that matter so am I because I try real hard to be equally disposed towards all of Gods Children..

Cant wait for Kims Book...Diamonds and Curls...too cute

rogifan said:

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks Prince was never a Christian is I'm going to take a wild guess that you won't find many non Christians who study the Bible (and want to study it with other people) but we have numerous accounts of Prince doing just that. When Prince says in an interview that he checks people to see how faith based they are I don't think he's talking about new age spirituality or whatever. Someone who isn't Christian probably isn't having 2 hour conversations about Jesus in their kitchen (which Josh Welton said he had with Prince the first time he met him).

Totally Agree...

however the evidence that he Embraced God Consciuosness in a broader sense, one that includes Jesus, and other understandings is impossible to Ignore.

Traditional Christains believe that the Thrid eye is at its best Occultist and at its worst Demonic

Prince was making a HUGE public Statment by embracing the idea of the Third Eye as a Gateway to GOd Consciousness

Not only did he embrace it...in the end His Public IMAGE was ALL About it !

anyone who cant see that is "Whacky" !

Lovejunky said:

rogifan said:

purplethunder3121 said: This. Why do I get the feeling those who don't think Prince really was Christian are people who aren't themselves? I posted specific quotes from the man himself. And let's not forget that cover song 3EG did of "What If" which is a Christian song about Jesus.

The Definition of being a Christian these days is very murky..

I know lots of people who declare themselves as such, yet lack compassion for their fellow human beings..they are the first to Judge others hatefully and harshly..

Hec..I see these "Christians" around here ..condeming and criticizing because they think that all it takes is a public declaration of their Christianity.

I'd be ashamed to act like that in the Name of "Christianity"

What does it mean to be a Christian to Follow the Christ ?

Jesus said:

John 13:34-35

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

By that definition Prince most certainly is a Christian...and for that matter so am I because I try real hard to be equally disposed towards all of Gods Children..

Cant wait for Kims Book...Diamonds and Curls...too cute

I'm far from religious, but I agree with your sentiment...But actually, the behaviour that you're talking about can be traced historically to atrocities and persecution by those acting in the name of so-called "chritianity".

The Crusades...Anyone?

Salem Witch Trials...Anyone?

To name a coupla incidents...Just saying.

I sincerely doubt that "Jesus Christ" would be thrilled to have his name used in that way, but what do I know?

Lovejunky said:

rogifan said:

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks Prince was never a Christian is I'm going to take a wild guess that you won't find many non Christians who study the Bible (and want to study it with other people) but we have numerous accounts of Prince doing just that. When Prince says in an interview that he checks people to see how faith based they are I don't think he's talking about new age spirituality or whatever. Someone who isn't Christian probably isn't having 2 hour conversations about Jesus in their kitchen (which Josh Welton said he had with Prince the first time he met him).

Totally Agree...

however the evidence that he Embraced God Consciuosness in a broader sense, one that includes Jesus, and other understandings is impossible to Ignore.

Traditional Christains believe that the Thrid eye is at its best Occultist and at its worst Demonic

Prince was making a HUGE public Statment by embracing the idea of the Third Eye as a Gateway to GOd Consciousness

Not only did he embrace it...in the end His Public IMAGE was ALL About it !

anyone who cant see that is "Whacky" !

I agree, but why is that such a big huge deal that questions P's "christianity"?

Regardless of whatever he may or may not have explored in the way of spiritual enlightenment, he never publicly denounced the faith that he publicly embraced.

If he walked various paths, so what?

I'm quite sure that if the deity that P communicated with wasn't pleased, P's most likely found that out by now in some way or another so I don't personally feel the need to judge either his path(s) or his worship or his motives.

Whatever his path(s) or wherever they led him, at least he was on a path(s) and searching for spiritual enlightement...some folks never get that far.

LBrent said:

Lovejunky said:

Totally Agree...

however the evidence that he Embraced God Consciuosness in a broader sense, one that includes Jesus, and other understandings is impossible to Ignore.

Traditional Christains believe that the Thrid eye is at its best Occultist and at its worst Demonic

Prince was making a HUGE public Statment by embracing the idea of the Third Eye as a Gateway to GOd Consciousness

Not only did he embrace it...in the end His Public IMAGE was ALL About it !

anyone who cant see that is "Whacky" !

I agree, but why is that such a big huge deal that questions P's "christianity"?

Regardless of whatever he may or may not have explored in the way of spiritual enlightenment, he never publicly denounced the faith that he publicly embraced.

If he walked various paths, so what?

I'm quite sure that if the deity that P communicated with wasn't pleased, P's most likely found that out by now in some way or another so I don't personally feel the need to judge either his path(s) or his worship or his motives.

Whatever his path(s) or wherever they led him, at least he was on a path(s) and searching for spiritual enlightement...some folks never get that far.

No BIG Deal at all....

I believe due to his open minded and sincere search , he Achieved Spiritual enlightenment and evolved in front of our very eyes into a being who carried so much LOVE inside his heart that his physical body is no longer of any use to him..

Lovejunky said:

LBrent said:

I agree, but why is that such a big huge deal that questions P's "christianity"?

Regardless of whatever he may or may not have explored in the way of spiritual enlightenment, he never publicly denounced the faith that he publicly embraced.

If he walked various paths, so what?

I'm quite sure that if the deity that P communicated with wasn't pleased, P's most likely found that out by now in some way or another so I don't personally feel the need to judge either his path(s) or his worship or his motives.

Whatever his path(s) or wherever they led him, at least he was on a path(s) and searching for spiritual enlightement...some folks never get that far.

No BIG Deal at all....

I believe due to his open minded and sincere search , he Achieved Spiritual enlightenment and evolved in front of our very eyes into a being who carried so much LOVE inside his heart that his physical body is no longer of any use to him..

ETA punctuation

Lovejunky said:

The Definition of being a Christian these days is very murky..

Actually, according to scripture it is not murky at all. Jesus Christ said he was the way, the truth and the life. Jesus Christ said that the way was narrow and no one came to god the father except thru him(Christ). Anyone familiar with the christian bible would know that Jesus does not leave room for for other gods and idolAtry. He did leave plenty of room for questions, certainly. Christ did many Q&As in the bible but he never faltered on the basic tenets: only 1 god, and only 1 way to get to/fellowship with him. what you reference is Jesus giving us examples of how we ought to live. 2 separate issues.

-- The comment I made about Prince never refering to himself as a christian was meant to say I'm only going by what I know and not assuming other things. I didn't know him, I'm not taking anything for granted.

-- I'd like to add that most people who have a true encounter with Jesus christ are happy to tell you. The way he was happy to proclaim that he was a JW. Why not just say Christian if he was one? Like Denise did, like Dez did and Sheila and Micheal B and so many other associates of his. Prince called himself a JW. Why didn't he say I'm a follower of Christ i.e. Christian? His language made it clear he thought there was a difference.

-- and you're correct that many christians lack compassion but that speaks more to there humanity than it does their belief/ profession of faith in Christ. There are plenty of muslims who miss prayer sometimes- they are still followers of the koran. Plenty of catholics miss confession or mass- they are still catholics. i grew up with 2 morman families that DID NOT advocate for or practice polygamy but they were still mormans and would tell you so if you asked. Practicing a belief system/faith is just that a practice- it is perfected over time(i believe Prince said as much in the2014 RS interview). That means people will fall short and fuck-up alongthe way. It's to be expected,no?

[Edited 4/1/17 20:04pm]

Lovejunky said:

Totally Agree...

however the evidence that he Embraced God Consciuosness in a broader sense, one that includes Jesus, and other understandings is impossible to Ignore.

Traditional Christains believe that the Thrid eye is at its best Occultist and at its worst Demonic

Prince was making a HUGE public Statment by embracing the idea of the Third Eye as a Gateway to GOd Consciousness

Not only did he embrace it...in the end His Public IMAGE was ALL About it !

anyone who cant see that is "Whacky" !

Yes, to all this. He was quite open about his metaphysical leanings in the later years and given JWs teachings about it (Woo is bad! Like, going to hell bad!), this showed that he had stepped into another level of his understanding about his belief system.

I am inclined to say that he just broadened his perspective to be more INclusive rather than EXclusive.