rogifan said:

Found this on Facebook. Photo of Prince at the Chanhassen Dinner Theatre from March 2016.

gosh, that guitar looks big

Identity said:

rogifan said:

rogifan said:

Identity said:

WHAT isn't true? The manner in which he died? The opioids found on his body and home, or the traces of Fentanyl in his system?

I know what the ME report said: accidental overdose. I need more FACTS to conclude he was an addict. Nobody knows how long he was taking medication and for what purpose. I also need more FACTS to conclude he committed suicide or was murdered. People seem to be drawing lots of conclusions based on few FACTS.

If you don't want to speculate that's fine, but I'm not sure why you should object to other people speculating. Not all speculation is just making stuff up. We have certain facts (that he died of a drug overdose, that his plane was landed (mostly likely for an overdose), we have leaks from the investigation (which while not 100% confirmed have never been refuted), then we have lots of anecdotal evidence (lots of which points in the direction that i) he had pain issues and ii) he used opiates to deal with them), and then we have what we know about him from observing how he lived his life and what he told us in song about his own psychology (which was actually really quite a lot - he was pretty honest in song, even if he wasn't always in other respects, and he always said as much). That's quite a lot to go on, and more than enough to make a decent stab at interpreting events, which is what we're doing. And it's quite possible we're not going to get anything much more substantial. Maybe someone will rock up one day and tell us he was addicted, and had been since fill-in-the-date, but I doubt it. You are entitled to think there is not enough evidence for you to draw that conclusion, and then others of us think there is more than enough evidence for us to draw that conclusion. But we don't have to abide by your standards of evidence requirements, and it's not wrong for us to give interpretations based on our own standards.

sonshine said:

I hope he wasn't aware of what was happening. I hope he wasn't afraid. I hope he didn't comprehend he was going to die alone in an elevator. I hope he didn't realize what a clusterf**k it would be managing his estate without a will. I hope he didn't realize what a s**tshow the org would become due to the circumstances of his passing. Seriously tho I really only hope in his last moments he felt no fear

Thanks for your other comments. And all this, so much this. It just breaks my goddamn heart, over and over again

laurarichardson said:

laurarichardson said:

MMJas said:

jayseajay said:

Why on earth would there be drug binges? People with maintanence addictions don't necessarily go on binges...they take what they need to keep things going and then get on with it. They don't take so much that they get fucked up and fall down on stage, they take what they need to be able to do what they want to be able to do...and in all likelihood, for most of the time, Prince was taking it for exactly that purpose, to keep going, through whatever physical and possibly also emotional pain he was dealing with. It's still an addiction, in that he had to take it to be able to carry on - as I was trying to say, not all addictions conform to the stereotype of an addiction. And no one is suggesting he used Vicodin for 30 years straight, or that it's likely he had a very long term addicition (although there is some evidence that he used it in patches previously, and had likely given up until the last period began)...but how long is likely something we will never know. This idea that people think he was 'an out of control pill head'... where is it coming from? As Sonshine suggested above, in this whole horrible time, the harshest language I have heard to describe it has come from you...when you are trying to describe what he was not, or what people mistakenly think he was. But people I know who don't care that much but enough to have found out the general story seem to think 1. He took pain pills for pain caused from performance injuries 2. At some point he got addicted (possibly quite late on) and 3. At some point it got out of control (possibly really late on) insofar as by the end he was clearly making decisions which weren't safe....And that might be close to the whole story as far as we will ever understand it. I haven't heard anyone call him a 'junkie' or a 'druggie' or wotnot...and I know you want to defend his honor and his dignity, we all do...but I don't think it's in danger unless we don't allow that people can have addictions and still be good decent people.

[Edited 3/27/17 15:46pm]

I agree with the bolded statement. Many people have maintenance addictions. They don't overdo it, they just take what they need to perform well in whatever job they do. And this can go on for years and years.
I have said this many months ago: the P&M was most likely to reduce expenses but also to allow him some privacy because his addiction was getting out of hand as of late, either because he became seriously ill as a result of it or because he began to need stronger medication/dosage and it was no longer as manageable as before. And in true Prince fashion he was keeping it all to himself, not asking for help, just pretending everything was good. That public appearance at the PP party right after the plane incident was his typical MO (see Oprah's show after the death of his child).
He could have had come to the conclusion that something was not right in the later months, hence the doctor appointments, the complaining about stomach pain, etc. Perhaps his tolerance to the meds was changing, therefore the need for stronger stuff. And maybe there was no way a doctor would have prescribed the quantity that he had become accostumed to and Prince resorted to illegal stuff knowing no doctor would have given him what he needed. In short, he was self medicating, perhaps even from the very start. And if you go by Mayte's words, he was taking other people's medication too, a clear sign of self medication. Being the control freak that he was, he probably feared that word would get out about his need of anxiety/insomnia/joint pain or whatever medication if he had his own prescriptions.

[Edited 3/28/17 2:36am]

Bolded :

1. My thoughts on his "illness" as well, hence the family not wanting to disclose what the "illness" was...as some think it could have been cancer, so why not just reveal that? If his organs shut down bc of long term use..I can see where this would be possible..which leads to .

2. If P thought something was "going wrong" , i.e. the damage done to his organs as a result of long term use, no, he doesn't need a Dr. to run tests to tell him he is on drugs, but rather, possibly what the extent of the damage has been done as a result.

3. Yes, if you take Mayte's words, he was self medicating as well by using others Rx, as documented in the AP article stating that an Rx was found in somone else's name for 10 pills of oxycodone.

I think it would be good to re-read the AP article, I know I forgot alot of the details in it. It not oly states that he had 2 dozen "Watson 385" mislabeled pills in one Aleeve bottle (the actual Watson 385 was discontinued in 2012), and in another aspirin bottle an excess of 60 counterfeit tablets. Also,"Prince had many of these pills with him on April 15" in Moline

article below:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/6ea0a330a6fa442990

And before anyone "jumps the gun" on this article being told by "sources", realize this is the same story that has been vetted as "true" because it is from a reliable source (AP) as well as the fact that some here have used this exact story to repeat ad nauseum that "tests show before P's death, Fentanyl was not in his system, therefore he was not a long time user of the drug".

anangellooksdown said:

precioux said:

jayseajay said:

I have a feeling, at least for a brief moment that night, he knew he was in trouble. I can't figure out why his clothes would be on backwards...other than trying to get redressed, and basically so out of it, he didn't even comprehend what he was doing. Like "holy crap...something is wrong..I don't feel right...I need to get help".. and ended up in the elevator. My hunch said the elevator was going down, as in he came from upstairs. Nothing's ever been said about that though. And I'd love nothing more than to know WHO'S name was on those bottles of pills if it wasn't his name. Could just be some ficticious name. I've never heard much on that either. But unfortunately, I think for at least a moment...he did know something was terribly terribly wrong. May not have even known WHAT was wrong, or why.....but I think he knew something was "off" in those last few minutes. It's all speculation on my part. But taking the celebrity factor out, and using just the facts....I don't feel he knew he was taking fentanyl that night. Drug dealers lace their street pills with fentanyl because its cheaper for them to make. So I think Prince just got a bad batch. Something that hadn't obviously happened before. And maybe it happened this time because someone new got him the pills.....or the same person that had been getting them WENT to someone new. All speculation at this point. And we may never truly know.

laurarichardson said:

jayseajay said:

If you don't want to speculate that's fine, but I'm not sure why you should object to other people speculating. Not all speculation is just making stuff up. We have certain facts (that he died of a drug overdose, that his plane was landed (mostly likely for an overdose), we have leaks from the investigation (which while not 100% confirmed have never been refuted), then we have lots of anecdotal evidence (lots of which points in the direction that i) he had pain issues and ii) he used opiates to deal with them), and then we have what we know about him from observing how he lived his life and what he told us in song about his own psychology (which was actually really quite a lot - he was pretty honest in song, even if he wasn't always in other respects, and he always said as much). That's quite a lot to go on, and more than enough to make a decent stab at interpreting events, which is what we're doing. And it's quite possible we're not going to get anything much more substantial. Maybe someone will rock up one day and tell us he was addicted, and had been since fill-in-the-date, but I doubt it. You are entitled to think there is not enough evidence for you to draw that conclusion, and then others of us think there is more than enough evidence for us to draw that conclusion. But we don't have to abide by your standards of evidence requirements, and it's not wrong for us to give interpretations based on our own standards.

--So you are waiting for someone to tell you he was addicted? You are going to have keep waiting since not one single person who knew him or worked with has said so not even his dingbat wives.

?

ksl1974 said:

I have a feeling, at least for a brief moment that night, he knew he was in trouble. I can't figure out why his clothes would be on backwards...other than trying to get redressed, and basically so out of it, he didn't even comprehend what he was doing. Like "holy crap...something is wrong..I don't feel right...I need to get help".. and ended up in the elevator. My hunch said the elevator was going down, as in he came from upstairs. Nothing's ever been said about that though. And I'd love nothing more than to know WHO'S name was on those bottles of pills if it wasn't his name. Could just be some ficticious name. I've never heard much on that either. But unfortunately, I think for at least a moment...he did know something was terribly terribly wrong. May not have even known WHAT was wrong, or why.....but I think he knew something was "off" in those last few minutes. It's all speculation on my part. But taking the celebrity factor out, and using just the facts....I don't feel he knew he was taking fentanyl that night. Drug dealers lace their street pills with fentanyl because its cheaper for them to make. So I think Prince just got a bad batch. Something that hadn't obviously happened before. And maybe it happened this time because someone new got him the pills.....or the same person that had been getting them WENT to someone new. All speculation at this point. And we may never truly know.

paulludvig said:

Last August, Prince's cousin, Chazz Smith, said more than once that relatives had tried in vain to help Prince with his dependency. I don't want to believe him, but I do.

Agreed! i wonder why people dont discuss this more..

"A relative of late rock icon Prince reflected on the family's efforts to wean the famed singer off addictive pain medication at a private memorial service held at a Minneapolis church on Friday.

The Purple Rain singer's family had tried to help him 'in every kind of way you can think of,' his cousin Chazz Smith told KARE-TV"

Link-------> http://www.dailymail.co.u...ction.html

Identity said:

Last August, Prince's cousin, Chazz Smith, said more than once that relatives had tried in vain to help Prince with his dependency. I don't want to believe him, but I do.

[Edited 3/28/17 11:33am]

MD431Madcat said:

Agreed! i wonder why people dont discuss this more.. in a recent interview hje's been acting like he 's searching for answers.. but during those first interviews that he gave he sound VERY familiar with Prince's Drug issues!

Identity said:

Last August, Prince's cousin, Chazz Smith, said more than once that relatives had tried in vain to help Prince with his dependency. I don't want to believe him, but I do.

But now he has backtracked on that and is going on about Justice for Prince. I am telling you there is more to this than drug addict story.

sonshine said:

According to legitimate sources that attempt to classify addiction vs abuse vs dependence: drug-seeking behavior is a characteristic of addiction. Drug-seeking behavior includes obtaining prescriptions by forgery or 3rd parties, obtaining meds off the street, self- medicating, and using meds without a doctor's supervision and/ or not as prescribed by a doctor (using more than prescribed).

But if you are famous and you do not want people knowing your business you are going to do things on the down low also what about the need to work to pay the bills. What if he got cut off and still needed those meds to work? Like I said up and till the last weeks of his life he seemed to be doing pretty well for himself.

I think the details are in what has been "released".

It has been report about the Oxy bottle being found. I am sure, the police have investigated that. That should include the name on the prescription, who and why it was prescribed. If Oxy was not in Prince's system, then they may exclude it. Who knows.

We also know Carver County searched PP on the 21st. Perhaps the DEA was called in later when toxicology results showed Fentynal (which were not released for some time to the public). DEA searched PP for the federal investigation. Yes, it was after Carver County released PP and the Memorial was held. How do we know that Carver County investigators were not at PP on the day of the Memorial to monitor activity and people? We don't.

Reports in the media as far back as 2009 hinted or addressed the hip problem and possible pain pills for the hip. Nothing solid, just reports.

What I find interesting is the wording of the leaks. For example, Prince did not have a prescription for the last 12 months. The 12 months, in my opinion, is the key. Starting in 2015, some say they see a decline in his stature, more frail, ill appearing. Perhaps this is when he starting obtaining pills alternately.

I am sure by now, Carver County and the DEA have a lot of insight on Prince's health history. They may know he had an increased consumption and was cut off. Speculation. The investigation may be facing the challenge of who provided the pills. If it was the name on the Oxy bottle, this would have been solved a long time ago.

Leaks could have been done purposefully to see if suspected individuals correct the information. For example, the clothes. Or, that could be something as simple as the leaker thought Prince's clothes were on backwards. It is not like his clothes had tags on them.

We know that Prince dealt with personal stuff by keeping busy. Aside from needing money for expenses, perhaps this is why he did the P&M tour. Dealing with the loss of Vanity and even perhaps his struggles. Speculation.

Yes, Prince was seen riding his bike after Moline, looking fine and healthy. He was at Daktota, the same. Prince would not appear in public otherwise. On the days he felt good, he was out. The days he struggled or did not feel good, he isolated himself and was out of the public eye. Speculation.

2 more points and I will be quiet. 2 dozen watson pills were found in numerous locations, aleve, advil and vitamin c bottles. Not to mention, Prince's personal travel bag. The wording in this gives the impression he was hiding his pills and possibly for some time.

I think it is simple, Prince at some point had got hooked on pain pills to deal with his pain. Over the course of time, he was cut off. Got some stuff from outside sources. Unfortunately, got a bad batch. He was at PP, doing his thing, recording, whatever he does at PP. I have never been there nor met him. At some point around 3am (his body was discovered around 930 estimated and reports say rigormortus was beggging which is average of 6 hours) he was either going upstairs or down. No one really knows. He took what he probably thought was a normal pain pill, which we now know was not. From what i have heard, the pill would have killed a man 5 times his size, so I can imagine that there was not much time for help or to call.

Regardless. this doe not diminish Prince's legacy or make him an evil or bad person. All it shows is that he is human and he had his struggles and faults. It does not reduce him or his philanthropy.

The world he created, the mysterious world, the privacy, allowed him to create the most incredible music and artistic creations that will never be matched and wil vbe explored for centuries. We as fans do not have to defend Prince's name or legacy. In my opinion, that is intact. His manner of death does not dissolve his beautiful spirit. His journey in this life is reflective of his creations and his philanthropy.

[Edited 3/28/17 11:35am]

Identity said:

laurarichardson said:

--I did not say he had cancer. I was responding to a comment about terminal illness and how if it was cancer it can go in remission. Yes, people who are terminal who have cancer do use opiads to manage their pain I have had many people I know be in Oxy so try to know what you are talking about before you spout off.

You're taking Prince's death too personally, thread hopping and blasting people who actually knew him, as if you had some insight into his 'situation'' or could read his thoughts.

Does someone on this board claim to know him? I have also not blasted anyone. So what are you talking about?

paulludvig said:

If he was taking pain medication because he needed to in order to be able to move around and perform, then that's perfectly understandable. What should he have done? Sit in a wheel chair? Stop working? Could he even afford to stop working?

Apparently that is what some people would have had him do sit. Sit and be in pain. Ridculous if something was hurting me I would take the fucking pain killers and tell people to kiss my ass.

For someone so out of control he sure did manage well and this factoid is lost on the sucide and addict crowd who get too much info from TMZ.

[Edited 3/28/17 11:46am]

laurarichardson said:

Identity said:

You're taking Prince's death too personally, thread hopping and blasting people who actually knew him, as if you had some insight into his 'situation'' or could read his thoughts.

Does someone on this board claim to know him? I have also not blasted anyone. So what are you talking about?

CatB knew him,personally

precioux said:

laurarichardson said:

MD431Madcat said:

Agreed! i wonder why people dont discuss this more.. in a recent interview hje's been acting like he 's searching for answers.. but during those first interviews that he gave he sound VERY familiar with Prince's Drug issues!

But now he has backtracked on that and is going on about Justice for Prince. I am telling you there is more to this than drug addict story.

I don't think Chazz Smith has backpedaled on any of his previous statements regarding failed interventions, rather he seems puzzled about how Prince came to possess a very powerful drug like Fentanyl without a prescription.

sonshine said:

laurarichardson said:

paulludvig said:

If he was taking pain medication because he needed to in order to be able to move around and perform, then that's perfectly understandable. What should he have done? Sit in a wheel chair? Stop working? Could he even afford to stop working?

Apparently that is what some people would have had him do sit. Sit and be in pain. Ridculous if something was hurting me I would take the fucking pain killers and tell people to kiss my ass.

For someone so out of control he sure did manage well and this factoid is lost on the sucide and addict crowd who get too much info from TMZ.

[Edited 3/28/17 11:46am]

i'm not going by tmz, i'm not going by anything because we don't have anything to go from, really, all we can do is start from "prince is dead" and work backwards from there, none of it makes sense, no scenario, none so here we go from one theory to the other like fucking fools and Prince is just as dead.