PeteSilas said:

morningsong said:

Naw. I grew up COGIC. Prince crossed too many lines in his younger years for me to think of him as a spiritual beacon leading to Christ, I understood his contridiction and conflict but not as something leading into it. As an adult I've grown into my own spiritual awareness just like he did his. We still don't fully agree on a few things but I've been comfortable with it.

i'm sure he did, so what' worse, all the preachers and christians who do things against their religion (and vilify others for same) like gay activity, molestation, infidelity, stealing money?

I lived with a preacher, i used to wonder how he, his wife and the people in church rationalized the things they did in their own minds. I was (un) lucky not to lose my virginity to any of them. Used to fasinate me and still does, the woman who would have petitions against child molestation and call me over to do her weeds while she flirted with me. Used to just fascinate me how they put that all together in their minds. Prince, and marvin gaye before him were very open about that same conflict in their music.

And that's why the message and good intent is usually butchered by the actual lives these people live. They create more confusion with their private interpretation to suit a lifestyle of denial. Lie today, ask for forgiveness , and as long as I keep asking for forgiveness, it's human to lie, to sin. This is the biggest out and puts the intended message and simple commandments to shame. Imagine the parent who tells the child that stealing is wrong , yet when the child steals, the parent comforts him. What is the incentive to stop stealing? More hugs and kisses?

Iamtheorg said:

oh brother

Exactly.

His music, lyrics, and comments over the years certainly provide insight. And with him gone, its natural to reflect on what we think we might have missed. But the facial slogan SLAVE really turned my mind on to think far beyond what I thought I understood. But then again, there's so many layers to Prince, its an ongoing journey.

Menes said:

PeteSilas said:

i'm sure he did, so what' worse, all the preachers and christians who do things against their religion (and vilify others for same) like gay activity, molestation, infidelity, stealing money?

I lived with a preacher, i used to wonder how he, his wife and the people in church rationalized the things they did in their own minds. I was (un) lucky not to lose my virginity to any of them. Used to fasinate me and still does, the woman who would have petitions against child molestation and call me over to do her weeds while she flirted with me. Used to just fascinate me how they put that all together in their minds. Prince, and marvin gaye before him were very open about that same conflict in their music.

And that's why the message and good intent is usually butchered by the actual lives these people live. They create more confusion with their private interpretation to suit a lifestyle of denial. Lie today, ask for forgiveness , and as long as I keep asking for forgiveness, it's human to lie, to sin. This is the biggest out and puts the intended message and simple commandments to shame. Imagine the parent who tells the child that stealing is wrong , yet when the child steals, the parent comforts him. What is the incentive to stop stealing? More hugs and kisses?

ya, it never made any sense, what always got me is how they could be so split, forget what I think, how did they fix that in their brains, i never understood it. and so, i've always been somewhat obsessed by it myself, kind of like prince. but i was never a dogmatic believer of any kind

I am glad I read this thread before it got moved to P&R, where we will be subjected to 1,000-word essays from some of my favorite posters.

PeteSilas said:

morningsong said:

Naw. I grew up COGIC. Prince crossed too many lines in his younger years for me to think of him as a spiritual beacon leading to Christ, I understood his contridiction and conflict but not as something leading into it. As an adult I've grown into my own spiritual awareness just like he did his. We still don't fully agree on a few things but I've been comfortable with it.

i'm sure he did, so what' worse, all the preachers and christians who do things against their religion (and vilify others for same) like gay activity, molestation, infidelity, stealing money?

I lived with a preacher, i used to wonder how he, his wife and the people in church rationalized the things they did in their own minds. I was (un) lucky not to lose my virginity to any of them. Used to fasinate me and still does, the woman who would have petitions against child molestation and call me over to do her weeds while she flirted with me. Used to just fascinate me how they put that all together in their minds. Prince, and marvin gaye before him were very open about that same conflict in their music.

IMO, people who claim to know the way and expect others to follow.

Prince was on a journey like a lot of us, I can understand that and don't fault him for it a bit. I just came from a very "rigid" background where there would have been conflict if I was looking for Prince as my religious leader at that time. In fact I did go through a lot of conflict within those early decades but I've resolved long ago.

P.S.:

Prince, like all us Christians, knows that WE can't save anyone. We can only provide information. Jesus Christ is the only one that can save anyone. You have to ask Jesus to save you; we can't ask on your behalf. We can hope, pray and urge that you ask Jesus for salvation, but neither Prince, me or anyone else can provide that to you.

morningsong said:

PeteSilas said:

i'm sure he did, so what' worse, all the preachers and christians who do things against their religion (and vilify others for same) like gay activity, molestation, infidelity, stealing money?

I lived with a preacher, i used to wonder how he, his wife and the people in church rationalized the things they did in their own minds. I was (un) lucky not to lose my virginity to any of them. Used to fasinate me and still does, the woman who would have petitions against child molestation and call me over to do her weeds while she flirted with me. Used to just fascinate me how they put that all together in their minds. Prince, and marvin gaye before him were very open about that same conflict in their music.

IMO, people who claim to know the way and expect others to follow.

Prince was on a journey like a lot of us, I can understand that and don't fault him for it a bit. I just came from a very "rigid" background where there would have been conflict if I was looking for Prince as my religious leader at that time. In fact I did go through a lot of conflict within those early decades but I've resolved long ago.

ive said it recently and i'll say it again, prince was only going off of what marvin gaye did first, mixing the sacred and the profane. As a matter a fact, did he even refer to god at all before controversy? the christians in those times hated Prince (and Michael and all the rest) and would have laughed in anyone suggested he led anyone to church. people have wondered if prince just did it to create controversy or if he meant it or even if he was actually worshipping satan as "god". He was raised in church so he had that background like many of us do but somehow it all got warped. some woman, may have been kim upsher, maybe not, but she said that he "believes he's related to god somehow". Then, after he died, there were old stories that came up that said he demanded people call him the messiah. So, how much was showbiz? How much was sincere? He did tell w&l that they would rot in hell for their lifestyle and he always did have a huge conservative streak, like the father than kicked him out for being with a girl. anyway, i think he copied marvin gaye and like i said in another thread, only he had no subltelty, in fact he had the subtetey of a train wreck.

PeteSilas said:

morningsong said:

IMO, people who claim to know the way and expect others to follow.

Prince was on a journey like a lot of us, I can understand that and don't fault him for it a bit. I just came from a very "rigid" background where there would have been conflict if I was looking for Prince as my religious leader at that time. In fact I did go through a lot of conflict within those early decades but I've resolved long ago.

ive said it recently and i'll say it again, prince was only going off of what marvin gaye did first, mixing the sacred and the profane. As a matter a fact, did he even refer to god at all before controversy? the christians in those times hated Prince (and Michael and all the rest) and would have laughed in anyone suggested he led anyone to church. people have wondered if prince just did it to create controversy or if he meant it or even if he was actually worshipping satan as "god". He was raised in church so he had that background like many of us do but somehow it all got warped. some woman, may have been kim upsher, maybe not, but she said that he "believes he's related to god somehow". Then, after he died, there were old stories that came up that said he demanded people call him the messiah. So, how much was showbiz? How much was sincere? He did tell w&l that they would rot in hell for their lifestyle and he always did have a huge conservative streak, like the father than kicked him out for being with a girl. anyway, i think he copied marvin gaye and like i said in another thread, only he had no subltelty, in fact he had the subtetey of a train wreck.

Well Prince wasn't presenting himself as a spiritual leader, he is an artist.

The rumors you've got to take with a grain of salt. I've heard some whoppers in my Prince time that later turned out to be completely untrue, which is probably why I have little patience for it now. I don't have much information about his religious background or what he was taught. Random statements could have a different meaning if put in the right context. And maybe he did go thru a messiah stage, he didn't stay there and I never saw it as a fan, never heard it in his music so he wasn't talking to me about it therefore he wasn't trying to lead me into believing it.

morningsong said:

PeteSilas said:

ive said it recently and i'll say it again, prince was only going off of what marvin gaye did first, mixing the sacred and the profane. As a matter a fact, did he even refer to god at all before controversy? the christians in those times hated Prince (and Michael and all the rest) and would have laughed in anyone suggested he led anyone to church. people have wondered if prince just did it to create controversy or if he meant it or even if he was actually worshipping satan as "god". He was raised in church so he had that background like many of us do but somehow it all got warped. some woman, may have been kim upsher, maybe not, but she said that he "believes he's related to god somehow". Then, after he died, there were old stories that came up that said he demanded people call him the messiah. So, how much was showbiz? How much was sincere? He did tell w&l that they would rot in hell for their lifestyle and he always did have a huge conservative streak, like the father than kicked him out for being with a girl. anyway, i think he copied marvin gaye and like i said in another thread, only he had no subltelty, in fact he had the subtetey of a train wreck.

Well Prince wasn't presenting himself as a spiritual leader, he is an artist.

The rumors you've got to take with a grain of salt. I've heard some whoppers in my Prince time that later turned out to be completely untrue, which is probably why I have little patience for it now. I don't have much information about his religious background or what he was taught. Random statements could have a different meaning if put in the right context. And maybe he did go thru a messiah stage, he didn't stay there and I never saw it as a fan, never heard it in his music so he wasn't talking to me about it therefore he wasn't trying to lead me into believing it.

The music , especially in his early years, was an excellent body of work ,yet wholly separate from the lyrical content which could be intentionally ambiguous. I imagine this caused a lot of consternation for those who professed the same faith. Leonardo Da Vinci was sort of like that too. Very hard to peg.

MD431Madcat said:

saved before all that...

RodeoSchro said:

I am glad I read this thread before it got moved to P&R, where we will be subjected to 1,000-word essays from some of my favorite posters.

That would be tough for the purpose of discussion.

RodeoSchro said:

P.S.:

Prince, like all us Christians, knows that WE can't save anyone. We can only provide information. Jesus Christ is the only one that can save anyone. You have to ask Jesus to save you; we can't ask on your behalf. We can hope, pray and urge that you ask Jesus for salvation, but neither Prince, me or anyone else can provide that to you.

I totally agree. Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to Heaven and the ONLY way to be saved is to ask for forgiveness and ask Jesus to come into our hearts. Prince shared Jesus with people through his music but, like you said, Prince did not have the power to "save" people -- ONLY Jesus can do that! Prince used his music to witness to people and to share the Gospel.

Astasheiks said:

he was Only interested in Prince!

Larry apparently told im off!

luvgirl said:

MD431Madcat said:

I met one crazy ass lunatic Prince maniac in Minneapolis in 2000 when i attended the first Prince celebration.. he was there for the celebration also... (and from my home-town)..

I bumped into him at a bootleg vinyl/vhs shop one day a few years later..

apparently he became a jehovas witness member and moved to Chaska minnesota for a period of time to try to attend the same services Prince & Larry Graham were going to!!!!

TRUE STORY!

Did he become a Jehovas Witness only to attend the same services as Prince or did he truly want to convert because he really believed, and then try to attend the same services? [Edited 3/20/17 18:28pm]

RodeoSchro said:

P.S.:

Prince, like all us Christians, knows that WE can't save anyone. We can only provide information. Jesus Christ is the only one that can save anyone. You have to ask Jesus to save you; we can't ask on your behalf. We can hope, pray and urge that you ask Jesus for salvation, but neither Prince, me or anyone else can provide that to you.

If the Jesus is the only person who can save anyone then we're all fucked.

Menes said:

RodeoSchro said:

I am glad I read this thread before it got moved to P&R, where we will be subjected to 1,000-word essays from some of my favorite posters.

That would be tough for the purpose of discussion.

LOL, you aren't kidding!

RicoN said:

RodeoSchro said:

P.S.:

Prince, like all us Christians, knows that WE can't save anyone. We can only provide information. Jesus Christ is the only one that can save anyone. You have to ask Jesus to save you; we can't ask on your behalf. We can hope, pray and urge that you ask Jesus for salvation, but neither Prince, me or anyone else can provide that to you.

If the Jesus is the only person who can save anyone then we're all fucked.

Not all of us, my friend.

RodeoSchro said:

RicoN said:

If the Jesus is the only person who can save anyone then we're all fucked.

Not all of us, my friend.

if he's real he alreaedy dies for my sins, one in all in. none in none in.

RicoN said:

RodeoSchro said:

Not all of us, my friend.

if he's real he alreaedy dies for my sins, one in all in. none in none in.

I dont understand what you mean by this. I don't think you understand the purpose of why he died. I think we would call that a sacrficial lamb of sorts in order for you to have salvation( eternal life) which in turn provides an eternal home for you when you perish physically.

Of course, none of this matters if you havent bought into the story in the first place. Most religions are cultural based and cannot be quantifed as truth, or absolute , one way or the other. I will note here that even Christ, was not a Chrisitian, as he had no religion . Someone coined that phrase and it stuck. He merely presented himself as "the way" the truth and the life", which is a direct reference to the Creator himself.

Now, it is not to say that you can soley profess to be a believer yet show utter contempt by returning to the inquities of the world after claiming to believe. This is the delusional part that usually send people scurring away from the message all together. Blame the messengers, not the mesage.

I used to feel like I was about to catch the Holy Ghost to "Still Would Stand All Time" and "Love Thy Will Be Done".

TheEnglishGent said:

I've been waiting for a thread like this for a while, so that I can tell this story...

I was walking to work and I have to cross many busy London roads. This one day, the lights had just gone amber and I was about to step out. But something held me back and I didn't take that step, which was just as well as the big lorry coming up to the lights didn't slow down and stop, instead they drove straight through the now red light and they would have no doubt killed me. It was then that I realised I'd been humming the line, "Don't cross on the yellow, you got to wait for the green light".

And that was the moment that Don't Talk To Strangers saved me. Thank you Prince.

Nobody'll ever love this story, as much as I do. But that doesn't mean other people wont love it too.

MD431Madcat said:

he was Only interested in Prince!

Larry apparently told im off!

luvgirl said:

MD431Madcat said: Did he become a Jehovas Witness only to attend the same services as Prince or did he truly want to convert because he really believed, and then try to attend the same services? [Edited 3/20/17 18:28pm]

is that the guy who wanted to sit on Prince's lap on arsenio??

MD431Madcat said:

AnnaSantana said:

I used to feel like I was about to catch the Holy Ghost to "Still Would Stand All Time" and "Love Thy Will Be Done".

Did you feel like speaking in tongues too? Just kidding.

RicoN said:

I grew up in a VERY religious household and it still amazes me that one human being thinks he can tell another human being what will happen to him after he dies. It's just a guess based on what you've read and heard. That's cool and everything, believe what you may but for me, I became TRULY free in life when I decided that no one really knows the actual truth.

I understood what Prince was trying to do through spreading the word with his music, I just ignored it, really.

PeteSilas said: