I listened to it again just now. A couple things, I have read 3 different books on Abraham Lincoln. He wasn't quite the egalitarian many of us were led to believe but then again some revisionist books make him out to be a much bigger racist than he was (Forced Into Glory was notorious for this).. Lincoln was against slavery from early on and believed in the basic humanity of African Americans. Unfortunately, he also was quoted as saying publically (in front of white illinois folks who were adamantly against restraints placed on slavery) that 'perhaps' whites were superior and he supported voluntary colonization. He would not support voting rights in the earlier days as well. Now, what Prince might have missed was that Lincoln helped get the 13th amendment passed through (through patronage jobs and delaying a peace delegation), eventually supported some voting rights and signed into laws things like the Homestead Act (an act that actually allowed people [African americans among them] to use land in the western territories), supported the formation of schools for ex-slaves in conquered Confederate states, appointed the first African American military officer, saved a slave's life who murdered his slave master, and signed the Freedman's Bureau Bill. Lincoln evolved from an anti-slavery gradual emancipationist with racist beliefs to someting closer to an egalitarian and it wasn't only for the preservation of the union. LIncoln beliefs were super complex, contradictory and evolving (you could write a book just on that subject alone.).

All that being said, I still love the song Avalanche because of the pain it expresses. I am a white woman and reading some of Abe's quotes did break my heart (a little less so when I read with more detail some of the ways he evolved and about the context or audiences in which some of those quotes were used. For an alternative take on LIncoln's view, read his private letter to Joshua Speed in 1855--which contained a much more humane and sympathetic take on slavery by Lincoln.) I can't imagine what African Americans who read his Lincoln-Douglass debate quotes and anothers feel. The pain of feeling deceived by sugar-coated or white-washed views of history, the disillusionment. Lincoln getting more credit than he deserved for the freedom of slaves. (for preserving the Union he deserves credit as well as for his ability to change.) The freedom of slaves was the work of many including the slaves themselves. Ironically after Prince describes Lincoln's racism, he also states that LIncoln said you can't escape history, as if Prince was saying that even Lincoln knew that he would suffer and the country would as well for its sin of racism.

[Edited 2/9/17 22:20pm]

[Edited 2/9/17 22:25pm]

purplerabbithole said:

I listened to it again just now. A couple things, I have read 3 different books on Abraham Lincoln. He wasn't quite the egalitarian many of us were led to believe but then again some revisionist books make him out to be a much bigger racist than he was (Forced Into Glory was notorious for this).. Lincoln was against slavery from early on and believed in the basic humanity of African Americans. Unfortunately, he also was quoted as saying publically (in front of white illinois folks who were adamantly against restraints placed on slavery) that 'perhaps' whites were superior and he supported voluntary colonization. He would not support voting rights in the earlier days as well. Now, what Prince might have missed was that Lincoln helped get the 13th amendment passed through (through patronage jobs and delaying a peace delegation), eventually supported some voting rights and signed into laws things like the Homestead Act (an act that actually allowed people [African americans among them] to use land in the western territories), supported the formation of schools for ex-slaves in conquered Confederate states, appointed the first African American military officer, saved a slave's life who murdered his slave master, and signed the Freedman's Bureau Bill. Lincoln evolved from an anti-slavery gradual emancipationist with racist beliefs to someting closer to an egalitarian and it wasn't only for the preservation of the union. LIncoln beliefs were super complex, contradictory and evolving (you could write a book just on that subject alone.).

All that being said, I still love the song Avalanche because of the pain it expresses. I am a white woman and reading some of Abe's quotes did break my heart (a little less so when I read with more detail some of the ways he evolved and about the context or audiences in which some of those quotes were used. For an alternative take on LIncoln's view, read his private letter to Joshua Speed in 1855--which contained a much more humane and sympathetic take on slavery by Lincoln.) I can't imagine what African Americans who read his Lincoln-Douglass debate quotes and anothers feel. The pain of feeling deceived by sugar-coated or white-washed views of history, the disillusionment. Lincoln getting more credit than he deserved for the freedom of slaves. (for preserving the Union he deserves credit as well as for his ability to change.) The freedom of slaves was the work of many including the slaves themselves. Ironically after Prince describes Lincoln's racism, he also states that LIncoln said you can't escape history, as if Prince was saying that even Lincoln knew that he would suffer and the country would as well for its sin of racism.

[Edited 2/9/17 22:20pm]

[Edited 2/9/17 22:25pm]

This song has been thoroughly discussed on here before. It's one of my absolute favorite Prince Songs but a lot of the white fans got really pissed at him over this one. The part about John hammond isn't entirely accurate, Hammond did manipulate and control black artists but NO ONE manipulated Duke Ellington, it's well known that Duke had no use for Hammond and the two didn't really get on. either way, brilliant song and the very first song I think of when people try and say he lost his power as an artist, this one is about as good a song as he's ever done in my mind.

PeteSilas said:

jdcxc said:

jdcxc said:

I love that sing, andthe first time i read the lyrics, i could not believe my eyes. I don't know a damn thing about Lincoln, but i knew he ended up slavery or at least that's what i thought.

214 said:

I love that sing, andthe first time i read the lyrics, i could not believe my eyes. I don't know a damn thing about Lincoln, but i knew he ended up slavery or at least that's what i thought.

Lincoln wanted to send slaves out of the U.S.: http://www.theroot.com/di...1790858389

purplethunder3121 said:

NorthC said:

NorthC said:

I'm afraid this is another one of those cases where Prince confused his own struggle against record companies with social issues. Especially in that verse about John Hammond, who also started Bob Dylan's carreer. (He was known as "Hammond's folly" because no one thought this young kid from Minnesota had any chance in the music bizz.) So to suggest that Hammond was only looking for black artists to exploit, is a little unfair. Also, every time Prince sings about black acts not getting paid, I'm thinking, damn! You're a multi millionaire yourself! Sometimes I think Prince was a little too obsessed with record companies and it clouded his judgement. [Edited 2/11/17 10:46am] [Edited 2/11/17 10:47am]

Prince never suggested that "Hammond was only looking for black artists to exploit." He does seem to be suggesting that Hammond and others in the music industry were "lurking" in waiting to take advantage of Black artists. And, yes, Prince was a multimillionaire, but that doesn't mean that he was supposed to stay mum on the predatory nature of the music industry, does it?

Hammond did a lot of good for a lot of artists, black and white. Dylan and Springsteen were just two of his landmark "discoveries". I've watched docus on him and they are usually positive but I've learned on here, from previous discussions on this song (search for it) that Hammond wasn't always well liked. I don't know in great detail but I they say that Basie and Holiday both had issues with him, most likely involving either money or control of their art. Thing is, with white people, no matter how altruistic they might try to come off, there is always the agenda of control, power and money underneath it. He had the power to endorse some of these artists at a time when they needed it, they didn't have much choice. Today things aren't much different really, the way things are structured, there is always someone up above you who's expecting to have their ass kissed in exchange for favor. It's just the way things are structured, unfortunately some of us just aren't built that way regardless of race.

PeteSilas said: