Marrk said:

I love nearly all of Prince's musical work in his latter days. I didn't like a lot of his lyrics in the 2000's. I felt he went over the top with his religion and fingure wagging. He could have became a Muslim or Scientologist and I'd have felt the same way. It did affect his work and how i viewed him. He might have felt he got found, I just thought he ended up a little lost. Lovesexy Prince was my kind of religion, accepting, no matter what. Kind of hoping the 'Purple Yoda' might have dumped it all and just gone with the Force in the end. Oh well!

I think it was definitely moving that way - the third eye shades are certainly not Kingdom Hall regulation...and I was glad to see it, because like you say about Lovesexy, I think it's more in tune with his natural spiritual orientation, which always struck me as much more open and less dogmatic than it became in the early 2000s. That said, much as I dislike many of the effects of the conversion, it clearly worked for him and was what he needed at the time. The nineties were brutal for him (both personally and professionally), and it gave him strength and got him back on his feet, and we got another 14 years of amazing performances as a result...so, I'm kinda grateful for it, even though I also hate how conservative it was.

I think he was moving that way too. Listening to AOA, it occurred to me that the religiousness that popped up even in 3121, Planet Earth and even 20Ten, was not in AOA. It was spiritual but not at all dogmatic. I don't think any of the albums after that were either. He did record some singles that were straight up CHristian songs (the song What if) with 3rdeyegirl but they weren't on his albums.

That all being said, the Weltons and other band members were religious. But they were not JW's and from different denominations. I don't know--maybe they reminded Prince of all the different ways people could worship. He didn't seem as close to Larry Graham anymore (they still hooked up in 2013 on stage but it didn't seem to be as frequent.) And there is the fact that he mentioned in an INterview that he believed in chakras and was expanding his religious beliefs.

jayseajay said:

Marrk said:

I love nearly all of Prince's musical work in his latter days. I didn't like a lot of his lyrics in the 2000's. I felt he went over the top with his religion and fingure wagging. He could have became a Muslim or Scientologist and I'd have felt the same way. It did affect his work and how i viewed him. He might have felt he got found, I just thought he ended up a little lost. Lovesexy Prince was my kind of religion, accepting, no matter what. Kind of hoping the 'Purple Yoda' might have dumped it all and just gone with the Force in the end. Oh well!

I think it was definitely moving that way - the third eye shades are certainly not Kingdom Hall regulation...and I was glad to see it, because like you say about Lovesexy, I think it's more in tune with his natural spiritual orientation, which always struck me as much more open and less dogmatic than it became in the early 2000s. That said, much as I dislike many of the effects of the conversion, it clearly worked for him and was what he needed at the time. The nineties were brutal for him (both personally and professionally), and it gave him strength and got him back on his feet, and we got another 14 years of amazing performances as a result...so, I'm kinda grateful for it, even though I also hate how conservative it was.

purplerabbithole said:

I think he was moving that way too. Listening to AOA, it occurred to me that the religiousness that popped up even in 3121, Planet Earth and even 20Ten, was not in AOA. It was spiritual but not at all dogmatic. I don't think any of the albums after that were either. He did record some singles that were straight up CHristian songs (the song What if) with 3rdeyegirl but they weren't on his albums.

That all being said, the Weltons and other band members were religious. But they were not JW's and from different denominations. I don't know--maybe they reminded Prince of all the different ways people could worship. He didn't seem as close to Larry Graham anymore (they still hooked up in 2013 on stage but it didn't seem to be as frequent.) And there is the fact that he mentioned in an INterview that he believed in chakras and was expanding his religious beliefs.

jayseajay said:

I think it was definitely moving that way - the third eye shades are certainly not Kingdom Hall regulation...and I was glad to see it, because like you say about Lovesexy, I think it's more in tune with his natural spiritual orientation, which always struck me as much more open and less dogmatic than it became in the early 2000s. That said, much as I dislike many of the effects of the conversion, it clearly worked for him and was what he needed at the time. The nineties were brutal for him (both personally and professionally), and it gave him strength and got him back on his feet, and we got another 14 years of amazing performances as a result...so, I'm kinda grateful for it, even though I also hate how conservative it was.

Ha yes, the chakra thing. Let's face it, Prince basically had a hippie streak a mile wide - all those clouds and stars and doves and rainbows. He cut his hair and started wearing suits and stopped swearing and tried to be straight but a lot of it really didn't stick for that long...I think both him and his concept of God were far too cosmic and expansive to stay inside a JW straightjacket indefintely...and thank the Goddess for that

purplerabbithole said:

I think he was moving that way too. Listening to AOA, it occurred to me that the religiousness that popped up even in 3121, Planet Earth and even 20Ten, was not in AOA. It was spiritual but not at all dogmatic. I don't think any of the albums after that were either. He did record some singles that were straight up CHristian songs (the song What if) with 3rdeyegirl but they weren't on his albums.

That all being said, the Weltons and other band members were religious. But they were not JW's and from different denominations. I don't know--maybe they reminded Prince of all the different ways people could worship. He didn't seem as close to Larry Graham anymore (they still hooked up in 2013 on stage but it didn't seem to be as frequent.) And there is the fact that he mentioned in an INterview that he believed in chakras and was expanding his religious beliefs.

jayseajay said:

I think it was definitely moving that way - the third eye shades are certainly not Kingdom Hall regulation...and I was glad to see it, because like you say about Lovesexy, I think it's more in tune with his natural spiritual orientation, which always struck me as much more open and less dogmatic than it became in the early 2000s. That said, much as I dislike many of the effects of the conversion, it clearly worked for him and was what he needed at the time. The nineties were brutal for him (both personally and professionally), and it gave him strength and got him back on his feet, and we got another 14 years of amazing performances as a result...so, I'm kinda grateful for it, even though I also hate how conservative it was.

I agree. It is not Jehovah's Witness, but it is something else he had gotten into, by the time I heard AOA. I think we heard it brewing on Rainbow Children.

I still would love to hear what the Rainbow Children pt 2 would sound like(and titled)

I think if the JW allowed what Prince wanted to do with pt 2 and combining Kingdom Hall worship services & Paisley Park. He would have went deeper.

Song I can easily see in the same strain of Rainbow Children(that Agnostic Gospels + Egyptology + Jehovah's Wintess + Princeology):

1. Revelation
2. Planet Earth

3. Act of God

4.

The Love We Make (1997) Emancipation was seriously sounding similar to Rainbow Children dogma

Overall Rainbow Children is my favorite out of the whole 19902 - 2000s

[Edited 2/17/17 8:36am]

I think its the fact that Prince has always been a PR nightmare.

I doubt he EVER listened to advice.

As much as I hate to criticize AWTIAD it just isn't an album I would have released after Purple Rain, and definitely not so soon. But if his idea was to "purge" PR fans, well, mission accomplished.

But maintaining legacies never seemed to be in his interest anyways. He seemed so short sighted and uninterested in maintaining any momentum that its easy to see people struggling to maintain interest themselves.

With all his money it might've helped to not tinker in the studio so much and at the very least maybe take some college classes. At the most travel the world outside of a tour bus or Paris where they love you.

If hits were his concern in later years, after alienating the public to the point of non-interest, then he had no one to blame but himself.

*total hindsight judgement

For all his deeds of righteousness, I can accept anything he believed could cash in some more.
If I knew, that's how stupid I am, I would have bought the damn records.
But what did I know? It's hard to reconcile all the Princes. It was somewhat hard for him,
even if by the end of his life he truly seemed to have gone full circle.

Very interesting stuff, the return of the open mind: that's what Lovesexy was about.
But it's hard for me to imagine the Versace Experience Prince giving away to charities, and he probably already was, who knows?

And then, The Rainbow Children. I like it, and by that I mean the way it's unapologetic in the classic Princey way. It was irritating because musically, it went into free territories like Lovesexy did, but it did seem like a step back from a spiritual point of view. Let's say TRC is not music, it's a trip.
Maybe the Rubber Soul quality of the artwork suggests something.

Open mind? It's always been about the music for me.
Whenever I feel it's coming from Prince's guts, no matter the era.

But I can appreciate the laidback spirit of the latter songs.
It's always kinda hard to see a man finally at peace with himself.
Fuck, nothing left to fight for?
Oh how I wish Prince had thrown flames upon Donald.
I hear a furious riff.

But then again, Baltimore.
Yes, Prince was going for peace.
I wish I did not trip that much on Run The Jewels 2.
But Prince is right nonetheless: maybe it's easier to add violence upon violence.
It's more hard to love, etc... Escape!

Prince is very insular, you really have to dig in,
and it takes some time out of your life.
It's a paradox, that defines Skipper pretty well:
You do need an open mind, but to focus on one mind only.
It would be unbearable if there weren't so many rooms.
Like a museum, it takes time.

It takes time to appreciate AOA.
It's about getting old, missing, regrets, and the firm belief
Richard Bach can make seagulls of us all.

It depends how high you rate creation, I guess.

bonatoc said:

For all his deeds of righteousness, I can accept anything he believed could cash in some more.
If I knew, that's how stupid I am, I would have bought the damn records.
But what did I know? It's hard to reconcile all the Princes. It was somewhat hard for him,
even if by the end of his life he truly seemed to have gone full circle.

Very interesting stuff, the return of the open mind: that's what Lovesexy was about.
But it's hard for me to imagine the Versace Experience Prince giving away to charities, and he probably already was, who knows?

And then, The Rainbow Children. I like it, and by that I mean the way it's unapologetic in the classic Princey way. It was irritating because musically, it went into free territories like Lovesexy did, but it did seem like a step back from a spiritual point of view. Let's say TRC is not music, it's a trip.
Maybe the Rubber Soul quality of the artwork suggests something.

Open mind? It's always been about the music for me.
Whenever I feel it's coming from Prince's guts, no matter the era.

But I can appreciate the laidback spirit of the latter songs.
It's always kinda hard to see a man finally at peace with himself.
Fuck, nothing left to fight for?
Oh how I wish Prince had thrown flames upon Donald.
I hear a furious riff.

But then again, Baltimore.
Yes, Prince was going for peace.
I wish I did not trip that much on Run The Jewels 2.
But Prince is right nonetheless: maybe it's easier to add violence upon violence.
It's more hard to love, etc... Escape!

Prince is very insular, you really have to dig in,
and it takes some time out of your life.
It's a paradox, that defines Skipper pretty well:
You do need an open mind, but to focus on one mind only.
It would be unbearable if there weren't so many rooms.
Like a museum, it takes time.

It takes time to appreciate AOA.
It's about getting old, missing, regrets, and the firm belief
Richard Bach can make seagulls of us all.

It depends how high you rate creation, I guess.

You should write more often, i love your writing.

bonatoc said:

For all his deeds of righteousness, I can accept anything he believed could cash in some more.
If I knew, that's how stupid I am, I would have bought the damn records.
But what did I know? It's hard to reconcile all the Princes. It was somewhat hard for him,
even if by the end of his life he truly seemed to have gone full circle.

Very interesting stuff, the return of the open mind: that's what Lovesexy was about.
But it's hard for me to imagine the Versace Experience Prince giving away to charities, and he probably already was, who knows?

And then, The Rainbow Children. I like it, and by that I mean the way it's unapologetic in the classic Princey way. It was irritating because musically, it went into free territories like Lovesexy did, but it did seem like a step back from a spiritual point of view. Let's say TRC is not music, it's a trip.
Maybe the Rubber Soul quality of the artwork suggests something.

Open mind? It's always been about the music for me.
Whenever I feel it's coming from Prince's guts, no matter the era.

But I can appreciate the laidback spirit of the latter songs.
It's always kinda hard to see a man finally at peace with himself.
Fuck, nothing left to fight for?
Oh how I wish Prince had thrown flames upon Donald.
I hear a furious riff.

But then again, Baltimore.
Yes, Prince was going for peace.
I wish I did not trip that much on Run The Jewels 2.
But Prince is right nonetheless: maybe it's easier to add violence upon violence.
It's more hard to love, etc... Escape!

Prince is very insular, you really have to dig in,
and it takes some time out of your life.
It's a paradox, that defines Skipper pretty well:
You do need an open mind, but to focus on one mind only.
It would be unbearable if there weren't so many rooms.
Like a museum, it takes time.

It takes time to appreciate AOA.
It's about getting old, missing, regrets, and the firm belief
Richard Bach can make seagulls of us all.

It depends how high you rate creation, I guess.

contact his estatew ..u could do linernotes

You guys are lovely, but it's just my chronic logorrhea kicking.

I think liner notes should be the work of guys like imprimis, but what do I know.

The estate? Right now I just wish them peace.

luvsexy4all said:

bonatoc said:

For all his deeds of righteousness, I can accept anything he believed could cash in some more.
If I knew, that's how stupid I am, I would have bought the damn records.
But what did I know? It's hard to reconcile all the Princes. It was somewhat hard for him,
even if by the end of his life he truly seemed to have gone full circle.

Very interesting stuff, the return of the open mind: that's what Lovesexy was about.
But it's hard for me to imagine the Versace Experience Prince giving away to charities, and he probably already was, who knows?

And then, The Rainbow Children. I like it, and by that I mean the way it's unapologetic in the classic Princey way. It was irritating because musically, it went into free territories like Lovesexy did, but it did seem like a step back from a spiritual point of view. Let's say TRC is not music, it's a trip.
Maybe the Rubber Soul quality of the artwork suggests something.

Open mind? It's always been about the music for me.
Whenever I feel it's coming from Prince's guts, no matter the era.

But I can appreciate the laidback spirit of the latter songs.
It's always kinda hard to see a man finally at peace with himself.
Fuck, nothing left to fight for?
Oh how I wish Prince had thrown flames upon Donald.
I hear a furious riff.

But then again, Baltimore.
Yes, Prince was going for peace.
I wish I did not trip that much on Run The Jewels 2.
But Prince is right nonetheless: maybe it's easier to add violence upon violence.
It's more hard to love, etc... Escape!

Prince is very insular, you really have to dig in,
and it takes some time out of your life.
It's a paradox, that defines Skipper pretty well:
You do need an open mind, but to focus on one mind only.
It would be unbearable if there weren't so many rooms.
Like a museum, it takes time.

It takes time to appreciate AOA.
It's about getting old, missing, regrets, and the firm belief
Richard Bach can make seagulls of us all.

It depends how high you rate creation, I guess.

contact his estatew ..u could do linernotes

he really could, i don't agree with each and every thing he says but I'm not the kind to hate anyone for that.

CynicKill said:

I think its the fact that Prince has always been a PR nightmare.

I doubt he EVER listened to advice.

As much as I hate to criticize AWTIAD it just isn't an album I would have released after Purple Rain, and definitely not so soon. But if his idea was to "purge" PR fans, well, mission accomplished.

But maintaining legacies never seemed to be in his interest anyways. He seemed so short sighted and uninterested in maintaining any momentum that its easy to see people struggling to maintain interest themselves.

With all his money it might've helped to not tinker in the studio so much and at the very least maybe take some college classes. At the most travel the world outside of a tour bus or Paris where they love you.

If hits were his concern in later years, after alienating the public to the point of non-interest, then he had no one to blame but himself.

*total hindsight judgement

from the perspective of keeping the new fans happy it was a nightmare maybe but i believe that he calculated that, knew that the pre-Purple Rain fans would mostly stay and only a small amount of the rest would too, the rest? I don't think he really wanted them as fans, as far as he was concerned, they could go to madonna and u2 concerts or whoever the business pumped up next. Also, it was a great way to relieve any pressure he might have felt for a follow up, not that I doubt he didn't have the fortitude to handle it but I think that was part of it too. Just look at MJ after thriller, he was so fucked up over how could he top it that he didn't release another album in five years.

One more thing, I'm sure Prince knew that he'd never sell as much as Purple Rain ever again and that it would be folly to try so why not try to test the audience he had and see how far they would go with him? As early as 81 he whimsically stated that he wanted the kinds of fans who'd come see him when he didn't have any hits. Ironically, he got those kinds of fans but, his fans only wanted him to release things so they could pounce on it and tear it apart, to see him and criticize how he dressed and combed his hair, if I were ever a successful musician, I'd never want those kinds of fans.

PeteSilas said:

CynicKill said:

I think its the fact that Prince has always been a PR nightmare.

I doubt he EVER listened to advice.

As much as I hate to criticize AWTIAD it just isn't an album I would have released after Purple Rain, and definitely not so soon. But if his idea was to "purge" PR fans, well, mission accomplished.

But maintaining legacies never seemed to be in his interest anyways. He seemed so short sighted and uninterested in maintaining any momentum that its easy to see people struggling to maintain interest themselves.

With all his money it might've helped to not tinker in the studio so much and at the very least maybe take some college classes. At the most travel the world outside of a tour bus or Paris where they love you.

If hits were his concern in later years, after alienating the public to the point of non-interest, then he had no one to blame but himself.

*total hindsight judgement

from the perspective of keeping the new fans happy it was a nightmare maybe but i believe that he calculated that, knew that the pre-Purple Rain fans would mostly stay and only a small amount of the rest would too, the rest? I don't think he really wanted them as fans, as far as he was concerned, they could go to madonna and u2 concerts or whoever the business pumped up next. Also, it was a great way to relieve any pressure he might have felt for a follow up, not that I doubt he didn't have the fortitude to handle it but I think that was part of it too. Just look at MJ after thriller, he was so fucked up over how could he top it that he didn't release another album in five years.

One more thing, I'm sure Prince knew that he'd never sell as much as Purple Rain ever again and that it would be folly to try so why not try to test the audience he had and see how far they would go with him? As early as 81 he whimsically stated that he wanted the kinds of fans who'd come see him when he didn't have any hits. Ironically, he got those kinds of fans but, his fans only wanted him to release things so they could pounce on it and tear it apart, to see him and criticize how he dressed and combed his hair, if I were ever a successful musician, I'd never want those kinds of fans.

Heh--knowing now that Prince visited this site, he probably had to avert his eyes frequently throughout his browsings, or bug-out at what he saw and read.

>

He kept doing what he would do, however, while ackowledging folks' pleadings erry now 'n then. Loved him for that!

we suspected that he was watching us, the "someones' looking at you" line in one of his song, the freakout after we had a thread on unflattering pics, he was watching it all. I don't know how he took it, I can't even now, as just a fan, alot of the unreasonable trolls are gone but there is still way more than enough irrational negativity to make me just consider leaving the site.

PeteSilas said:

we suspected that he was watching us, the "someones' looking at you" line in one of his song, the freakout after we had a thread on unflattering pics, he was watching it all. I don't know how he took it, I can't even now, as just a fan, alot of the unreasonable trolls are gone but there is still way more than enough irrational negativity to make me just consider leaving the site.

I know what you mean. I trolled here for a looong time before officially signing up here. Things could be brutally nasty, but also, there were many others around who had a lot of great information and good things to say who communicated in a much better fashion than I imagined I could muster. Eventually, I logged on. Nevermind the trolls that have diminished significantly. There have been some extremely erudite, insightful, knowledgeable people and music fans visiting this place over the years. So long as I feel there is something of interest to learn about Prince, or discuss, or to learn what other musics are bending fans' ears, I imagine I'll stick around.

>

Someone coined the term "fake fans"--I don't know exactly where the line can be drawn between such type if such exists and the non-butt-kissing high-critic, but commentaries coming from that place can be taken as grains of salt or grist for the mill, I'd say. Anyway, what the heck, take a break from the Org when you're feeling tired of it all. It's really no big deal in the end.

>

I maintain that Prince created excellent music throughout his career. His lyrics and tones reflected the people and times in his life and whatever else he'd imagine or dream about. I can appreciate a lot of it. The timbre or complexity may have varied, represented eras, or whatever, but this was to present something different for us all to hear, which is not necessiarily bad in my book.

Germanegro said:

PeteSilas said:

we suspected that he was watching us, the "someones' looking at you" line in one of his song, the freakout after we had a thread on unflattering pics, he was watching it all. I don't know how he took it, I can't even now, as just a fan, alot of the unreasonable trolls are gone but there is still way more than enough irrational negativity to make me just consider leaving the site.

I know what you mean. I trolled here for a looong time before officially signing up here. Things could be brutally nasty, but also, there were many others around who had a lot of great information and good things to say who communicated in a much better fashion than I imagined I could muster. Eventually, I logged on. Nevermind the trolls that have diminished significantly. There have been some extremely erudite, insightful, knowledgeable people and music fans visiting this place over the years. So long as I feel there is something of interest to learn about Prince, or discuss, or to learn what other musics are bending fans' ears, I imagine I'll stick around.

>

Someone coined the term "fake fans"--I don't know exactly where the line can be drawn between such type if such exists and the non-butt-kissing high-critic, but commentaries coming from that place can be taken as grains of salt or grist for the mill, I'd say. Anyway, what the heck, take a break from the Org when you're feeling tired of it all. It's really no big deal in the end.

>

I maintain that Prince created excellent music throughout his career. His lyrics and tones reflected the people and times in his life and whatever else he'd imagine or dream about. I can appreciate a lot of it. The timbre or complexity may have varied, represented eras, or whatever, but this was to present something different for us all to hear, which is not necessiarily bad in my book.

there were several factions, there were a few cult type fans who thought prince could do no wrong, there were and are many highly intelligent, bright people who have valuable things to say on many subjects, not just Prince but there were also "fans" who I've never quite seen for other artists of P's caliber. Springsteen and Elvis have fans that might not like periods or things that those guys did but they do not just rip apart every single thing they do, have done. The people that do that are clearly not calling themselves fans. With Prince, it's wierd, they do. Bruce gets called a hypocrite, a phoney, a hack but the people that call him that don't congregate on a bruce site, usually they may comment on him when he's in the news or what have you. Same with Elvis, there will always be people who call him a fat junkie but of course they don't call themselves fans.

And to illustrate that I have never been a sycophantic fan, I'll mention that last night I tried to watch a dvd compiling P interviews over the years. Knowing how exasperating listening to him answer questions in that stupid, halting mystical bullshit way. Shit gets on my nerves but it's all redeemed by the sincere humility, the evolution as a person he was going through and by his humor and insight which all slip out between the cracks of what I think was largely an act for his fans. An act he seemed to drop to varying degrees but never completely abandoning. Of course I love him anyway but what I wouldn't give to get some straight forward honesty of the kind Springsteen came through with on his recent bio.

PeteSilas said:

And to illustrate that I have never been a sycophantic fan, I'll mention that last night I tried to watch a dvd compiling P interviews over the years. Knowing how exasperating listening to him answer questions in that stupid, halting mystical bullshit way. Shit gets on my nerves but it's all redeemed by the sincere humility, the evolution as a person he was going through and by his humor and insight which all slip out between the cracks of what I think was largely an act for his fans. An act he seemed to drop to varying degrees but never completely abandoning. Of course I love him anyway but what I wouldn't give to get some straight forward honesty of the kind Springsteen came through with on his recent bio.

100% agreed on your observations on Prince's "innerviews."

>

Plus, on your other last post on the quality of selective fandom toward Prince, I believe people are naturally motivated to pursue such perspectives to resolve the personal biases they have for or against where the man was coming from. There are varying social frameworks and beliefs that some people need to struggle through, wanting to frame Prince within a certain specificity of being this or that, to satisfy whichever myth of Prince they want to believe in--The Revolution (espec. W&L) worshippers; the NPG worshippers; "P can't read charts 'n don't know s%i#" trumpeters; Prince is White; Prince is Gay; Prince is a terrible businessman; Prince does all music spectacularly; Prince is a saint/ho, etc.

>

It's amazing to wade through all of these ideas--the "fans" bring them all!

does it seem the people who've been there from the "beginning" seem to appreciate it more????