7salles said:

Prince wasn´t sooo much better in the early days. You think so because you got old. It´s all nostalgia and emotional attachment to the past.

All of this songs have classic potential (as DOZENS of others)

1+1+1=3

Family name

Groovy Potential

Sticky like glue

Somewhere here on earth

Dreamer

Colonized mind

Dance 4 me

This could be us

Way back home

yep, i have said that before...(and here as well) the impact of an event is amplified by something like a song. How I was feeling, what I was dealing with, who I was at that moment in time when I first heard SOTT... is a unique mix of many things... the song added to that and ties a memory to that song... i was 18... and now 30 years later hearing SOTT brings back that feeling... and that is part of the issue as to why for me new stuff will not have the impact like it would have 30 years ago.

it has nothing to do with lack of an opened mind... it is just as one gets older other factors no longer have the impact so there is less emotional connection.

PeteSilas said:

But he did mature and change, way back home is as good as just about anything he's ever done and your likeing minneapolis sound just shows how one guys treasure is another's bore. I have said more than once the whole lotusflower/minnapolis sound/bria thing was his weakest release for me, and i still say that. I've seen how some people really think it's brilliant work but I don't here it. the valente cd I just stopped listening to it's so bad. So, no, no one bats a thousand, no one but he comes as close as anyone does to it.

Pete, AOA is an absolute masterpiece, and I mean it.
When played in sequence, from start to finish. No cheating.
Funknroll is a fantastic rework of the sweaty, raw original: it's an evolution of "Black Sweat", it's a nod to its own minimalism and grandeur, it's Prince acknowledging the little but indeniable qualities of Daft Punk's "Digital Love".

"Funknroll", the much hated remix? My Inner Adolescent goes nuts by the end, I'm climaxing almost at the pre-orgasmic levels that ignite my spine like Ze Mother of all Magnesium Xmas Trees when the snare on the 4 announces the "All My Dreams" finale.

And its position in the track sequencing is just perfect.
I mean per-fe-que-teuh.


So to all of you that should be tempted to go "you lost me there, funknroll is crap", I have a saying for this: "Imagine radio stations based on quality, and Prince is suddenly on" (that is, if radio stations still existed as such).

— aparté —

WB were stupid, they didn't get "Somebody's Watching Me" 's purpose.
Had "17 Days" been a single of its own, it would have flooded the radios airwaves as "Little Red Corvette" did, and would have been a #1 hit single right after "When Doves Cry", without actually being on the #1 album ("Purple Rain", of course).
But Lawd, I hate talking about Prince's "carreer". Who gives a fuck now.
It's all about the work.

With time, I don't forgive, but can better understand WB by the mid-eighties:
— You're amazing, but we need have time to develop a market and sell your records.
Give us two years between each album, so we can repropose the story-telling, augmented with the latest work, and let's keep the B-Sides for the legend and the hardcore base. I know you have a lot to say, but you're going to appear like you want to be there all the time.
— Lenny, don't be a fool. I'm here right now. Listen, here's the sleeves projects for my two new side projects I phoned you about yesterday...

Make no mistake, the poor quality (inventivity-wise) coming from the waves since the nineties is proof the 50's Payola system turned into the current, indisputable situation: it's the male bitches and whores who suck/fuck the multimedia conglomerates members of the board the best who get the exposure.
There just can't be another sane reason.
The muzak's just too dud.
Everyone is ugly and mediocre.
They're either pathetic bourgeois or wannabee-genuine.

So whenever a Skipper's tune goes too FM for my poor mortal ears, I see him wink at me opening "Strange Relationship" with "W-NPG on the stereo now, uh" ("One Nite Alone... Live!").

Prince insisted on being a pop singer.
What's the point of comparing him to... Pat Metheny? Really?
Springsteen? Meh... New Jersey is too close to New York, if you ask me.
I'd rather go full, deep, ass-freezin' Mid-West.

— end of zee aparté —




But to most, people, a song where you have to pretend it's Radio Prince is impossible. First reaction, "he's full of himself", and second reaction, you can't play the game if you don't know ALL the songs (courage, Young Purple Padawans, you've gotta whole lotta butter 2 go).

The topic should be: "Do people feel uncomfortable when Prince asks them so much open-mindness?"


Because if you're a true fan, fam or cuzzin', you know about what I call the surrender.
There's no other way to like our Dear Prince to the fullest,
but to let him in, flaws and everything.

[Edited 2/8/17 10:54am]

OnlyNDaUsa said:

yep, i have said that before...(and here as well) the impact of an event is amplified by something like a song. How I was feeling, what I was dealing with, who I was at that moment in time when I first heard SOTT... is a unique mix of many things... the song added to that and ties a memory to that song... i was 18... and now 30 years later hearing SOTT brings back that feeling... and that is part of the issue as to why for me new stuff will not have the impact like it would have 30 years ago.

it has nothing to do with lack of an opened mind... it is just as one gets older other factors no longer have the impact so there is less emotional connection.

Pardon me, but you sound like an ol'fart who gazes ath his navel.

The Genius permeating SOTT has nothing to do with your youth.

It's universal.

bonatoc said:

PeteSilas said:

But he did mature and change, way back home is as good as just about anything he's ever done and your likeing minneapolis sound just shows how one guys treasure is another's bore. I have said more than once the whole lotusflower/minnapolis sound/bria thing was his weakest release for me, and i still say that. I've seen how some people really think it's brilliant work but I don't here it. the valente cd I just stopped listening to it's so bad. So, no, no one bats a thousand, no one but he comes as close as anyone does to it.

Pete, AOA is an absolute masterpiece, and I mean it.
When played in sequence, from start to finish. No cheating.
Funknroll is a fantastic rework of the sweaty, raw original: it's an evolution of "Black Sweat", it's a nod to its own minimalism and grandeur, it's Prince acknowledging the little but indeniable qualities of Daft Punk's "Digital Love".

"Funknroll", the much hated remix? My Inner Adolescent goes nuts by the end, I'm climaxing almost at the pre-orgasmic levels that ignite my spine like Ze Mother of all Magnesium Xmas Trees when the snare on the 4 announces the "All My Dreams" finale.

And its position in the track sequencing is just perfect.
I mean per-fe-que-teuh.


So to all of you that should be tempted to go "you lost me there, funknroll is crap", I have a saying for this: "Imagine radio stations based on quality, and Prince is suddenly on" (that is, if radio stations still existed as such).

— aparté —

WB were stupid, they didn't get "Somebody's Watching Me" 's purpose.
Had "17 Days" been a single of its own, it would have flooded the radios airwaves as "Little Red Corvette" did, and would have been a #1 hit single right after "When Doves Cry", without actually being on the #1 album ("Purple Rain", of course).
But Lawd, I hate talking about Prince's "carreer". Who gives a fuck now.
It's all about the work.

With time, I don't forgive, but can better understand WB by the mid-eighties:
— You're amazing, but we need have time to develop a market and sell your records.
Give us two years between each album, so we can repropose the story-telling, augmented with the latest work, and let's keep the B-Sides for the legend and the hardcore base. I know you have a lot to say, but you're going to appear like you want to be there all the time.
— Lenny, don't be a fool. I'm here right now. Listen, here's the sleeves projects for my two new side projects I phoned you about yesterday...

Make no mistake, the poor quality (inventivity-wise) coming from the waves since the nineties is proof the 50's Payola system turned into the current, indisputable situation: it's the male bitches and whores who suck/fuck the multimedia conglomerates members of the board the best who get the exposure.
There just can't be another sane reason.
The muzak's just too dud.
Everyone is ugly and mediocre.
They're either pathetic bourgeois or wannabee-genuine.

So whenever a Skipper's tune goes too FM for my poor mortal ears, I see him wink at me opening "Strange Relationship" with "W-NPG on the stereo now, uh" ("One Nite Alone... Live!").

Prince insisted on being a pop singer.
What's the point of comparing him to... Pat Metheny? Really?
Springsteen? Meh... New Jersey is too close to New York, if you ask me.
I'd rather go full, deep, ass-freezin' Mid-West.

— end of zee aparté —




But to most, people, a song where you have to pretend it's Radio Prince is impossible. First reaction, "he's full of himself", and second reaction, you can't play the game if you don't know ALL the songs (courage, Young Purple Padawans, you've gotta whole lotta butter 2 go).

The topic should be: "Do people feel uncomfortable when Prince asks them so much open-mindness?"


Because if you're a true fan, fam or cuzzin', you know about what I call the surrender.
There's no other way to like our Dear Prince to the fullest,
but to let him in, flaws and everything.

[Edited 2/8/17 10:54am]

Post of the year!! Perfect.

This particularly is simply 100% dead on:

"Make no mistake, the poor quality (inventivity-wise) coming from the waves since the nineties is proof the 50's Payola system turned into the current, indisputable situation: it's the male bitches and whores who suck/fuck the multimedia conglomerates members of the board the best who get the exposure.
There just can't be another sane reason.
The muzak's just too dud.
Everyone is ugly and mediocre.
They're either pathetic bourgeois or wannabee-genuine."

AMEN!!

bonatoc said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

yep, i have said that before...(and here as well) the impact of an event is amplified by something like a song. How I was feeling, what I was dealing with, who I was at that moment in time when I first heard SOTT... is a unique mix of many things... the song added to that and ties a memory to that song... i was 18... and now 30 years later hearing SOTT brings back that feeling... and that is part of the issue as to why for me new stuff will not have the impact like it would have 30 years ago.

it has nothing to do with lack of an opened mind... it is just as one gets older other factors no longer have the impact so there is less emotional connection.

Pardon me, but you sound like an ol'fart who gazes ath his navel.

The Genius permeating SOTT has nothing to do with your youth.

It's universal.

as i said a song can add to and create a link to a past memory. I think you misunderstood. I will put it a form that maybe you will get:

Song make me feel emotions... now me hear song me remember that time in life. Now me older and me hear new song... song good... but no connection to feeling so song not as important.

djThunderfunk said:

Post of the year!! Perfect.

Damn U.
February ain't over yet!

OnlyNDaUsa said:

as i said a song can add to and create a link to a past memory. I think you misunderstood. I will put it a form that maybe you will get:

Song make me feel emotions... now me hear song me remember that time in life. Now me older and me hear new song... song good... but no connection to feeling so song not as important.

I get you. But you're stating the obvious. *Yawn*

No robots on the org, but after reading you, me not so sure now.

Again, apparently it's all about your navel, and not the subject of the topic.

And next time please you keep condenscendance to yourself, me no like it much.

Prince was the ultimate rebel/badass 1980-1988

then the hits stopped and he started

following lesser musicians ie: D'angelo/Neptunes ect...

trying to get a hit...

a damn shame!

[Edited 2/8/17 13:54pm]

bonatoc said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

as i said a song can add to and create a link to a past memory. I think you misunderstood. I will put it a form that maybe you will get:

Song make me feel emotions... now me hear song me remember that time in life. Now me older and me hear new song... song good... but no connection to feeling so song not as important.

I get you. But you're stating the obvious. *Yawn*

No robots on the org, but after reading you, me not so sure now.

Again, apparently it's all about your navel, and not the subject of the topic.

And next time please you keep condenscendance to yourself, me no like it much.

me not robot me caveman

The peak period versus the music is best when you are young argument is unnecessary IMO. I think both are true. For young people, part of their emerging identities are partially based on who their favorite musical artists and genres are. There is an intensity to this aspect of it that is hard to replicate when one grows older. Rarely do fans who grow up with musicians who have careers that span into the decades prefer the newer stuff to the early stuff, even when the recent stuff is really good. I think Bowie's Black Star CD is excellent but have nowhere the emotional attachment to it as his 1970s output when I was in college. While the young fan bias may account for some of the pervasive view that Prince's 1980s output is superior than his later output, I think that most people of all ages who examine the immense amount of outstanding songs he created during the 1980s including the wealth of unreleased material would conclude that he was at his creative peak then. The shear numbers of great songs (and great albums) don't lie. At the same time, I agree with those who have said that he still made great songs and even albums (AOA?) in the subsequent years. Fortunately, one can view the 1980s as his peak and still approach all of his music with an open mind and heart while listening. To do so means letting go of the search for the next SOTT.

[Edited 2/8/17 15:10pm]

The thing is...

There's an EXCITEMENT when something is new and FRESH!!!! & Young and Beautiful..

and seemingly 'Magical' and Endless..

we expect these IDOLS/HERO's to either Die or Crash along the way..

in the case of Prince ..he just became (Old Skin) - his words.

and started releasing trash like JUGHEAD!

whilst allowing Jehova's RULES

and his hatred of the music business to further destroy his Career.

a damn shame.

gandorb said:

The peak period versus the music is best when you are young argument is unnecessary IMO. I think both are true. For young people, part of their emerging identities are partially based on who their favorite musical artists and genres are. There is an intensity to this aspect of it that is hard to replicate when one grows older. Rarely do fans who grow up with musicians who have careers that span into the decades prefer the newer stuff to the early stuff, even when the recent stuff is really good. I think Bowie's Black Star CD is excellent but have nowhere the emotional attachment to it as his 1970s output when I was in college. While the young fan bias may account for some of the pervasive view that Prince's 1980s output is superior than his later output, I think that most people of all ages who examine the immense amount of outstanding songs he created during the 1980s including the wealth of unreleased material would conclude that he was at his creative peak then. The shear numbers of great songs (and great albums) don't lie. At the same time, I agree with those who have said that he still made great songs and even albums (AOA?) in the subsequent years. Fortunately, one can view the 1980s as his peak and still approach all of his music with an open mind and heart while listening. To do so means letting go of the search for the next SOTT.

[Edited 2/8/17 15:10pm]

gandorb said:

Fortunately, one can view the 1980s as his peak and still approach all of his music with an open mind and heart while listening. To do so means letting go of the search for the next SOTT.

[Edited 2/8/17 15:10pm]

via GIPHY

[Edited 2/8/17 16:50pm]

bonatoc said:

gandorb said:

Fortunately, one can view the 1980s as his peak and still approach all of his music with an open mind and heart while listening. To do so means letting go of the search for the next SOTT.

[Edited 2/8/17 15:10pm]

via GIPHY

[Edited 2/8/17 16:50pm]

bonatoc said:

PeteSilas said:

But he did mature and change, way back home is as good as just about anything he's ever done and your likeing minneapolis sound just shows how one guys treasure is another's bore. I have said more than once the whole lotusflower/minnapolis sound/bria thing was his weakest release for me, and i still say that. I've seen how some people really think it's brilliant work but I don't here it. the valente cd I just stopped listening to it's so bad. So, no, no one bats a thousand, no one but he comes as close as anyone does to it.

Pete, AOA is an absolute masterpiece, and I mean it.
When played in sequence, from start to finish. No cheating.
Funknroll is a fantastic rework of the sweaty, raw original: it's an evolution of "Black Sweat", it's a nod to its own minimalism and grandeur, it's Prince acknowledging the little but indeniable qualities of Daft Punk's "Digital Love".

"Funknroll", the much hated remix? My Inner Adolescent goes nuts by the end, I'm climaxing almost at the pre-orgasmic levels that ignite my spine like Ze Mother of all Magnesium Xmas Trees when the snare on the 4 announces the "All My Dreams" finale.

And its position in the track sequencing is just perfect.
I mean per-fe-que-teuh.


So to all of you that should be tempted to go "you lost me there, funknroll is crap", I have a saying for this: "Imagine radio stations based on quality, and Prince is suddenly on" (that is, if radio stations still existed as such).

— aparté —

WB were stupid, they didn't get "Somebody's Watching Me" 's purpose.
Had "17 Days" been a single of its own, it would have flooded the radios airwaves as "Little Red Corvette" did, and would have been a #1 hit single right after "When Doves Cry", without actually being on the #1 album ("Purple Rain", of course).
But Lawd, I hate talking about Prince's "carreer". Who gives a fuck now.
It's all about the work.

With time, I don't forgive, but can better understand WB by the mid-eighties:
— You're amazing, but we need have time to develop a market and sell your records.
Give us two years between each album, so we can repropose the story-telling, augmented with the latest work, and let's keep the B-Sides for the legend and the hardcore base. I know you have a lot to say, but you're going to appear like you want to be there all the time.
— Lenny, don't be a fool. I'm here right now. Listen, here's the sleeves projects for my two new side projects I phoned you about yesterday...

Make no mistake, the poor quality (inventivity-wise) coming from the waves since the nineties is proof the 50's Payola system turned into the current, indisputable situation: it's the male bitches and whores who suck/fuck the multimedia conglomerates members of the board the best who get the exposure.
There just can't be another sane reason.
The muzak's just too dud.
Everyone is ugly and mediocre.
They're either pathetic bourgeois or wannabee-genuine.

So whenever a Skipper's tune goes too FM for my poor mortal ears, I see him wink at me opening "Strange Relationship" with "W-NPG on the stereo now, uh" ("One Nite Alone... Live!").

Prince insisted on being a pop singer.
What's the point of comparing him to... Pat Metheny? Really?
Springsteen? Meh... New Jersey is too close to New York, if you ask me.
I'd rather go full, deep, ass-freezin' Mid-West.

— end of zee aparté —




But to most, people, a song where you have to pretend it's Radio Prince is impossible. First reaction, "he's full of himself", and second reaction, you can't play the game if you don't know ALL the songs (courage, Young Purple Padawans, you've gotta whole lotta butter 2 go).

The topic should be: "Do people feel uncomfortable when Prince asks them so much open-mindness?"


Because if you're a true fan, fam or cuzzin', you know about what I call the surrender.
There's no other way to like our Dear Prince to the fullest,
but to let him in, flaws and everything.

[Edited 2/8/17 10:54am]

that's mighty fine writing son but our topic is do we like the music he did later, you seem to at least really like some of it so that proves you're not one of the guys who just hate's everything after Purple Rain. This thread I think is addressed to the harsh, vile, vitriolic fans who tear each and everything apart after lovesexy.

Anyway, it's not just Prince who's like this, I assume all of you have had friendships/relationships, jobs where you go through phases, it may be that people do like you in the beginning and hate you in the end or it can be they hate you in the beginning and love you in the end. My theory is that it's just how people are. I have customers, I try not to repeat or be around them too much, the first time is usually great, they're happy, I'm happy but sometimes, they want me to keep pulling rabbits out of the hat, I can't do it all the time, i'm a musician, i need lots of time to work on my craft, so what happens? I go from great guy to Heel in no time flat. Did I change? no, not really, did they ever really like me? I don't know but I wouldn't call that liking if it is. It's a sick codependence. Happens with friends too, just for whatever reason, the love just goes, they don't want to be bothered by you, they actually end up being suspicious if not paranoid all of the sudden. Sometimes it's drugs, other times it's just people having expectations and no maturity to deal with when you're actually a human being and not a puppet. I find that the more coddled and entitled people are, the more they demonize you when the relationship falls apart, it's like the slightest things make them accuse you of being a user, or a con man or whatever. It happens with artists too, Prince, Mj, Bruce, Elvis, have all lost tons of fans, mostly when they just think that their artist doesn't do what THEY expect them to do. Out of all those guys, Prince was the only one who intentionally told large parts of the pop audience to fuck off when he did ATWIAD, the rest either did things artistically or lifestyle wise where his fans took it as a personal betrayal. I met Charles Cross, bruce Springsteen biographer, I don't know what happened between him and bruce but something must have, you don't go from being a near religious follower of someone one day to telling me "he's not what you think he is" the next and never saying one positive thing about the man. Part of OUR growing up is not expecting infallibility out of our heroes and accepting their shortcomings. It's truly stunted adolescence for a guy like Charles Cross to berate a man who owes him nothing. We see that here a lot.

[Edited 2/8/17 21:37pm]

also, one more thing, prince wasn't above that dynamic that I mention above either. He never said much negative about WB until that ridiculous contract that he signed got him in trouble. then, all of the sudden he was a slave and WB was the devil, the white oppressor, the enemy. It's what anyone does when they don't get their way and they aren't mature enough to just eat it.

[Edited 2/8/17 23:38pm]

MD431Madcat said:

The thing is...

There's an EXCITEMENT when something is new and FRESH!!!! & Young and Beautiful..

and seemingly 'Magical' and Endless..

we expect these IDOLS/HERO's to either Die or Crash along the way..

in the case of Prince ..he just became (Old Skin) - his words.

and started releasing trash like JUGHEAD!

whilst allowing Jehova's RULES

and his hatred of the music business to further destroy his Career.

a damn shame.

gandorb said:

The peak period versus the music is best when you are young argument is unnecessary IMO. I think both are true. For young people, part of their emerging identities are partially based on who their favorite musical artists and genres are. There is an intensity to this aspect of it that is hard to replicate when one grows older. Rarely do fans who grow up with musicians who have careers that span into the decades prefer the newer stuff to the early stuff, even when the recent stuff is really good. I think Bowie's Black Star CD is excellent but have nowhere the emotional attachment to it as his 1970s output when I was in college. While the young fan bias may account for some of the pervasive view that Prince's 1980s output is superior than his later output, I think that most people of all ages who examine the immense amount of outstanding songs he created during the 1980s including the wealth of unreleased material would conclude that he was at his creative peak then. The shear numbers of great songs (and great albums) don't lie. At the same time, I agree with those who have said that he still made great songs and even albums (AOA?) in the subsequent years. Fortunately, one can view the 1980s as his peak and still approach all of his music with an open mind and heart while listening. To do so means letting go of the search for the next SOTT.

[Edited 2/8/17 15:10pm]

he wasn't that old when he released jughead and I know that sales don't mean everything but Diamonds and Pearls was his best seller since Purple Rain I believe. As much as we talk about how much sales do or don't mean and how much artistry means, the first thing people will pull out their ass when they criticize Prince's work is how no one listened to it, no one bought it.

i can dig that!

OnlyNDaUsa said:

yep, i have said that before...(and here as well) the impact of an event is amplified by something like a song. How I was feeling, what I was dealing with, who I was at that moment in time when I first heard SOTT... is a unique mix of many things... the song added to that and ties a memory to that song... i was 18... and now 30 years later hearing SOTT brings back that feeling... and that is part of the issue as to why for me new stuff will not have the impact like it would have 30 years ago.

it has nothing to do with lack of an opened mind... it is just as one gets older other factors no longer have the impact so there is less emotional connection.

databank said:

here is my other comparison: say someone gives you a million bucks! Woot! Then every year they give you another million sometimes 2....afer 20 or so times it is cool but not as exciting....

Keep on going guys, so interesting.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

here is my other comparison: say someone gives you a million bucks! Woot! Then every year they give you another million sometimes 2....afer 20 or so times it is cool but not as exciting....

that's a great comparison. Even after the man died people are still talking the same shit.

themend said:

databank said:

It is what it is.

Ok, so despite the fact that I have 100+ Prince cds, two Prince tattoos, an NPGMC white cloud guitar and I've seen him live close to 30 times, because The Rainbow Children was in my opinion the last album that didn't disappoint on first listen you're telling me I'm not actually a Prince fan, and I don't have a 'deep understanding' of Prince's music. That's not just arrogant and patronising, it's rude.

that's the whole point! everyone has different taste, most people here hate the fucking rainbow children and here you are impressed by it on first listen. None of us should be listening to anyone's opinions, people being the way they are are easily suggestible so these notions and ideas that prince hadn't done anything great since the 80's has gotten traction. Personally, I don't look to dislike his music like some of you do, I look for what is good. There are plenty of good and great songs that he wrote even if he didn't influence trends or any of that shit you guys seem to think matters so much.

PeteSilas said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

here is my other comparison: say someone gives you a million bucks! Woot! Then every year they give you another million sometimes 2....afer 20 or so times it is cool but not as exciting....

that's a great comparison. Even after the man died people are still talking the same shit.

those of us that spent most of the last 30+ listing to Prince are rich! we are spoiled. I am not sure I would ever go to another concert (On my own)... and I was offered tickets to a Prince cover band... and I was so happy that I could not go. I did not want to be rude! but no...

OnlyNDaUsa said:

PeteSilas said:

that's a great comparison. Even after the man died people are still talking the same shit.

those of us that spent most of the last 30+ listing to Prince are rich! we are spoiled. I am not sure I would ever go to another concert (On my own)... and I was offered tickets to a Prince cover band... and I was so happy that I could not go. I did not want to be rude! but no...

that's right, gave way more than anyone could be expected to give.

PeteSilas said:

themend said:

databank said: Ok, so despite the fact that I have 100+ Prince cds, two Prince tattoos, an NPGMC white cloud guitar and I've seen him live close to 30 times, because The Rainbow Children was in my opinion the last album that didn't disappoint on first listen you're telling me I'm not actually a Prince fan, and I don't have a 'deep understanding' of Prince's music. That's not just arrogant and patronising, it's rude.

that's the whole point! everyone has different taste, most people here hate the fucking rainbow children and here you are impressed by it on first listen. None of us should be listening to anyone's opinions, people being the way they are are easily suggestible so these notions and ideas that prince hadn't done anything great since the 80's has gotten traction. Personally, I don't look to dislike his music like some of you do, I look for what is good. There are plenty of good and great songs that he wrote even if he didn't influence trends or any of that shit you guys seem to think matters so much.

LOL! Comment of the year!

themend said:

databank said:

It is what it is.

Ok, so despite the fact that I have 100+ Prince cds, two Prince tattoos, an NPGMC white cloud guitar and I've seen him live close to 30 times, because The Rainbow Children was in my opinion the last album that didn't disappoint on first listen you're telling me I'm not actually a Prince fan, and I don't have a 'deep understanding' of Prince's music. That's not just arrogant and patronising, it's rude.

1/ There are poeple here who have every possible Prince collectible and claim they didn't like anything released by Prince since 1995 if not 1987, it's not my fault if they have psychological problems.

2/ If you have kept spending outrageous amounts of money on Prince collectibles for the last 15 years while not enjoying the music, it's not my fault if you have psychological problems.

3/ Having a shitload of collectibles or tatoos does not mean you have a deep understanding of Prince's music. I've met a lot of people with psychological problems who were Prince "fans" because for some reason it allowed them to compensate for their issues or get a social attitude while they didn't understand the first thing about Prince's music and lyrics, it's not my fault if they were Prince "fans" without being Prince "fans".

4/ If any album past 2001 disappointed you "on first listen" it means they grew up on you later, therefore that you like them, so I have no idea why you feel threatened by what I wrote, but it's not my fault if you do. Most Prince albums grew on me too, I wasn't that often blown away on a first listen, and that's the way it should be.

5/ While I believe being "rude" is a flaw of character, and I do not believe I have been rude to you personally that far, I do not see "arrogant" or "patronizing" as being flaws of characters. I am indeed arrogant and patronizing, I take responsibility for it, I am proud of it and I consider those adjectives as defining qualities. Of course one should know when to show it and when not to, as with any other quality, but I do not believe being arrogant and patronizing on the Org can be harmful to my social life given that I have purposedly kept my public life as a Prince fan and my public life as an artist and person separated. This BTW means I'm not using my discography site as an asset to get laid or get any sort of social prestige, which should be a proof of my integrity to you.

6/ This being said, I am truly sorry if I've hurt your feelings, I certainly had no wish to. There are certain well known idiots on the Org that I wish to get rid of (they've mostly disappeared since Prince died, though, because they mostly posted here in the hope that he'd come and read their bashing and whining), but I don't remember you ever being a nuisance to this board and therefore I have no issue with you being here. So I wish we could peacefully agree to disagree

PeteSilas said:

i completed one album ONE! and no one took an interest, I haven't even thought about doing another one so I know how discouraging it is. As far as the fans here, they were brutal when he was alive, I don't know how prince took it, but I just ignored it. I make up my own mind whether it's Elvis or Prince or whoever, if it's great it's great and Prince did plenty of great stuff that has been completely overlooked.

like what?

PeteSilas said:

also, one more thing, prince wasn't above that dynamic that I mention above either. He never said much negative about WB until that ridiculous contract that he signed got him in trouble. then, all of the sudden he was a slave and WB was the devil, the white oppressor, the enemy. It's what anyone does when they don't get their way and they aren't mature enough to just eat it.

I think this is unfair.

Maybe it didn't occur to Prince before the first ten years were over and it was time to renegotiate. Given Prince's daily agenda, we can't blame him if it looked like he just discovered the fact that WB owned his masters.

I think the renegotiation turned into the "100 million" contract proposal because WB wouldn't let go of intellectual property over his work. Giving him a huge envelope was a way to compensate for it. Maybe a fair one. But I'm pretty sure Prince's main intent was to create a situation where PP Records or any other entity would have freedom to release whatever, whenever.
I think he was after not replicating the frustrating situation he'd experienced since 1986, all these shelved and abandoned projects. Successive random-looking deals with Edel, NPG records creation, there were all moves to gain artistic freedom back. And money, of course, but I can't blame him, even if he was probably the most paid artist per record, having full writer/composer/arranger/producer credits for each one.

But the publicity he gave about it, it wasn't all about him. You have to recognize that he also used his public exposure in service of all artists. He raised an important issue for all musicians, and it took another decade for the whole industry to get where he was going at.

Public and fans alike didn't get it at the time, and it's odd how we quickly bent in WB's defense, a bit like "have your cake and eat it now". We were all thinking Prince should just back off from the issue.
Because he did it the Princey way, it turned out all paranoid as it got worse (WB wouldn't move from their position). We thought the name change was koo-koo, but when considered under a legal point of view, it was brilliant, and from a media marketing point of view, it was genius.

It took the internet and the mp3 format to expose the important problems Prince raised in full light.
But it was David against Goliath, and today's musicians get crumbles, or strive worse that in the sixties, and major companies keep on serving the same old fake sexual provocatory-like bullshit to teenagers. Posing has become more important than playing.

It took balls, come on. Just when he was wiping the GB fiasco from everyone's mind (Sinead "Nothing Compares 2 U", the D&P success), just when he could have taken a rest and embark in a calm decade of releasing/reworking Vault material along with some new tunes (wasn't GB exactly that?), he risked it all, put everything he had in the balance, almost lost it all, for a cause that was not only his.

Maybe if ol'Madge jumped ships it would have been different, we'll never know.

We often say that the Work is what really counts, but as fans, we will still be a little frustrated thinking he could have been much bigger, and not for Prince's sake, but for his work to be more universally appreciated. Instead, we're just a bunch of girls and boys in the know, with little ways to spread Prince's genius to the masses.

I don't think we value commercial success much (well, some orgers do and mistake record sales for talent proof), it's just that sometimes, we get tired of defending Prince trying to get him out of a cult status, and all the misunderstandings he helped create.

Personally, I'm glad it went that way. The "me against the world" attitude created another exciting decade, full of masterpieces : it's just that there was this inner conflict in Prince, he lost his respect for albums for a while, it was just about recording and playing live. Or maybe he had too high expectations of what an album should be ("The Dawn" would have been a 5 CD set at least).

In other words, Prince's actions and decisions are rarely comparable to anyone's in the music industry, because of his über-prolific monthly output, but also because of his business acuity.
It was not entirely ego or greed. Far from it, me thinks.

databank said:

themend said:

databank said:

1/ There are poeple here who have every possible Prince collectible and claim they didn't like anything released by Prince since 1995 if not 1987, it's not my fault if they have psychological problems.

2/ If you have kept spending outrageous amounts of money on Prince collectibles for the last 15 years while not enjoying the music, it's not my fault if you have psychological problems.

3/ Having a shitload of collectibles or tatoos does not mean you have a deep understanding of Prince's music. I've met a lot of people with psychological problems who were Prince "fans" because for some reason it allowed them to compensate for their issues or get a social attitude while they didn't understand the first thing about Prince's music and lyrics, it's not my fault if they were Prince "fans" without being Prince "fans".

4/ If any album past 2001 disappointed you "on first listen" it means they grew up on you later, therefore that you like them, so I have no idea why you feel threatened by what I wrote, but it's not my fault if you do. Most Prince albums grew on me too, I wasn't that often blown away on a first listen, and that's the way it should be.

5/ While I believe being "rude" is a flaw of character, and I do not believe I have been rude to you personally that far, I do not see "arrogant" or "patronizing" as being flaws of characters. I am indeed arrogant and patronizing, I take responsibility for it, I am proud of it and I consider those adjectives as defining qualities. Of course one should know when to show it and when not to, as with any other quality, but I do not believe being arrogant and patronizing on the Org can be harmful to my social life given that I have purposedly kept my public life as a Prince fan and my public life as an artist and person separated. This BTW means I'm not using my discography site as an asset to get laid or get any sort of social prestige, which should be a proof of my integrity to you.

6/ This being said, I am truly sorry if I've hurt your feelings, I certainly had no wish to. There are certain well known idiots on the Org that I wish to get rid of (they've mostly disappeared since Prince died, though, because they mostly posted here in the hope that he'd come and read their bashing and whining), but I don't remember you ever being a nuisance to this board and therefore I have no issue with you being here. So I wish we could peacefully agree to disagree

Fine, firstly thank you for letting me read and occasionally post on prince.org, I'm glad you approve of me.. Suggesting that I have psychological problems is not rude? Ok.... Please tell me what does enable one to have this deep understanding that you clearly have, is it knocking up a database of release dates and catalogue numbers? (which you so subtly managed to bring up in your response). Look, despite all this, I think you and I actually partly agree. Having immersed myself in Prince's music for the last 25 years, I feel qualified (and proud) to call myself a fan, what I didn't like was your perceived superiority that you felt gave you the right to judge whether other people can consider themselves fans. Without going back through the rest of the thread again, I can't remember who said it, but I believe that appreciation and attachment to music does have links with one's age and life events. The thrill of discovery in so many things as a teenager can't help but affect the way you first hear new music etc. and the emotions it evokes when heard again later in life (I'm 43 by the way, just to qualify my statements). As we become more experienced in life, I think we simply take things in our stride more often, and it takes a whole lot more to really stir things up. So although we all have our favourite eras of Prince's music, this doesn't mean each of us is any less qualified to enjoy his work and feel proud to call ourselves fans, without the blessing of an internet busybody (yes, I can make it personal too). Ironically in attempting to apologize, you were actually more offensive than before, hey-ho.. And with that, I'm out. I have no desire to get involved in an argument with anybody on here, I enjoy reading the discussions and very occasionally posting, but that's all.

Thx for the thoughtful reply. To be honest I'm often pushing it a little when posting on the org. Because certain people are themselves more idiotic here that they are -I assume- IRL, I overplay my character sometimes, sorry it was offensive to you.

I guess deep down we agree yes. it's certain that my enthusiasm isn't half what it was 25 years ago: the time I spend listening to new Prince releases or boots isn't what it used to be, if only because I listen to many more other things. My interest, though, hasn't waned a bit.

To be honest there have been certain people here whom I feel legit to call impstors. Not you, I actually wasn't thinking or talking about you when I originally posted in this thread. But there's been certain people who've done nothing but bashing and degrading Prince's music or Prince as a person for the last 15 or 20 years. I've also met certain fans who hadn't a clue of what Prince's work meant on a deeper level. I mean you may be talking about David Lynch's movies or Milan Kundera's books with someone and realize even though they've watched/read them, they don't have the smallest clue of what they're about. I believe certain people were somehow lifted by certain Prince albums, the way I may be lifted by certain works by David Bowie or David Sylvian (to take those 2 examples) while I am relatively indifferent to some others. I do not claim I have a deep understanding of their artistic approach and despite having all their records, I wouldn't call myself a fan of their work, because a great part of it eludes me. And more impoirtantly I wouldn't disrespect those works by them I do not really adhere to, because I'm sure if I'd make the effort to get into their work and try and understand it, I'd realize its significance as a whole instead of naively believing my tastes are some kind of universal value of reference.

"Databank" is, in many aspects, the monster created by some of the most stupidest orgers over the last 15 years. Their assumed and proud stupidity called for some sort of retaliation. And I assumed that role. Apologies if you felt targeted. And while only mods have the legitimate right to "allow" people to be orgers, I believe 16 years as a member of this community gives me (and others) a certain legitimacy in speaking out loud who I believe are contributing members and who are nuisances. Most boards usually have a tacit rule that elder members have such legitimacy and new members usually try and respect that. I certainly do when I post on another board.

databank said: