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Reply #30 posted 02/07/17 2:51am

sonshine

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Idk if they lack an open mind so much as a narrow mind about the kind of music he should be making. What artist doesn't grow, evolve and change over 4 decades? No one would be happy with PR version 23.0 either. They are only denying themselves of some new music in their lives.
It's a hurtful place, the world, in and of itself. We don't need to add to it. We all need one another. ~ PRN
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Reply #31 posted 02/07/17 4:19am

BartVanHemelen

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databank said:

It's likely that future generations, those people who weren't there to experience the glory of what was Prince's career in the 80's, will evaluate his whole body of work from a more neutral perspective, and that his later works will be rediscovered with more enthusiasm over the years.

.

Ah, so the NINETEEN YEARS that have passed since Emancipation was released haven't been long enough to discover its brilliance?

.

I recently tried listening to CD1 again, and I barely made it to the end. It was exactly as I'd remembered: half-assed ideas, much padding to get the 12 songs to reach 60 minutes, endless whining, etc.

.

Just answer me this: how come Prince couldn't be arsed to play his post-WBR music live? To keep those records in print? How come other artists didn't bother covering those songs?

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Reply #32 posted 02/07/17 5:24am

PeteSilas

BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

It's likely that future generations, those people who weren't there to experience the glory of what was Prince's career in the 80's, will evaluate his whole body of work from a more neutral perspective, and that his later works will be rediscovered with more enthusiasm over the years.

.

Ah, so the NINETEEN YEARS that have passed since Emancipation was released haven't been long enough to discover its brilliance?

.

I recently tried listening to CD1 again, and I barely made it to the end. It was exactly as I'd remembered: half-assed ideas, much padding to get the 12 songs to reach 60 minutes, endless whining, etc.

.

Just answer me this: how come Prince couldn't be arsed to play his post-WBR music live? To keep those records in print? How come other artists didn't bother covering those songs?

The great composers died mostly poor and not very popular, it took time for the lasting music to really become well known. Some people believe Duke Ellington got better with age and after his pop prime too. Those kinds of guys can't be charted on pop charts. Duke was composing his Sacred Concerts at the time of his death, where the hell would something like that fit in on 70's radio?

People are funny, easily suggestible and pretty vile when they get a good hate on. Remember how hot Eddie Murphy was in the 80's? Since the 90's he could rarely get a good review. I've watched all of his films, they aren't that bad, and he's still funny as hell. And really, was Beverly Hills Cop that funny or was it just the peak of a fantastic setup for that kind of hit? I don't really think it was that great, it was building on all the fans from SNL and the standup and 48Hours and Trading Places, he was at that place where he could do no wrong and it didn't take long for that to end, The Golden Child got savage reviews and ended what can be called the honeymoon phase for him. It's just human nature, couples go through it all the time, they fall in love and five ten years later they hate each others guts.

As far as Emancipation, I didn't like every song but I thought disk 2 alone was worth the price of admission. You want to know what I think is a dud of an album? Dirty Mind, I never did care for it aside from When You Were Mine, now some people would say that's insane but it's how I feel. Prince's thin, still developing voice, the demo like production and most of all, the lack of great songs. Lots of people think that was his high point, I think it was a great move strategically, it freed him from being the teen idol that he was in danger of becoming after Prince and it got rave reviews from rock critics who are just more infatuated with the ethos of social deviance more than they are great music, especially the old hippies who wrote most of those reviews. It didn't sell, it almost got him booted off his label but it did make room for the artist we came to know so by the time of 1999 or Purple Rain, there weren't really a whole lot of surprises left, sex was part of his brand.

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Reply #33 posted 02/07/17 5:30am

gandorb

I agree that the 1980s was when Prince was on top of his artistic and commercial peak. If you include all the outstanding unreleased tracks from the era, he would compare favorably to any artist dueing any decade. How could anyone keep up with that level of output and still be human? A decline in creative output was inevitable, and part of being open to Prince is to accept this with an open mind as well.

For me, I rolled with some of the musical decline because there was still a lot to love about it. However, it was when there was a series of hard to digest changes peripheral to his musical changes that led me astray for awhile (e.g., name change back and forth, the JW conversion, writing slave on his face, etc). This has taken me and I think some other fans longer to digest and accept. Once I did accept this, I started to be able to truly enjoy his music from all of his discography. NEVERTHELESS, THE RECOGNITION THAT THE 80S WAS HIS MOST CREATIVE PERIOD GIVES ME A WARM FUZZY NOW RATHER THAN INTERFERING WITH MY ENJOYMENT OF HIS SUBSEQUENT MUSIC.

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Reply #34 posted 02/07/17 6:14am

stpaisios

Outside die hard fans community - Prince is easily very, very underrated. At least here in southeastern Europe. People are totally unaware of his output.

And about people lacking to open mind and evaluate P's work...Well, you can't just get early in the morning, drink u'r coffee, pick up your instrument and write something like Colonized Mind, Call My Name, Future Soul Song, Supercute, Fury, The Dance, Revelation, The Everlasting Now, Breakdown, Musicology... just to name a few post-90's treasures. But i don't really expect someone to fully understand the glory of it and be in total awe listening 'Supercute' for example, cuz u really need to be way into Prince 2 understand how tight and remarkable that song is.

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Reply #35 posted 02/07/17 6:20am

TKO

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I always say 'You wanna listen to PR, SOTT or Parade? Great, go and play those records!' What's the point of keep making records that sound exactly like the ones already made?

Every album came exactly when it had to and it makes perfect sense to me.

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Reply #36 posted 02/07/17 7:59am

gubbins4ever

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ThePanther said:

The problem with the 'mainstream' (and even more knowledgable fans, like us) appreciating Prince's later work is 1982-1987, and most specifically 1984. In those years, he made his best music but also in 1984-85 hit commercial peaks that were actually far beyond what his music in itself would likely have engendered without a movie tie-in and serendipitous historical accident.

What I'm saying is, if the 1982-1987 period hadn't been quite as good and if there's been no Purple Rain movie to fix the era into everyone's memories permanently, it would thereafter have been 'easier' to judge fairly and correctly Prince's 1988 to 200s' work. Naturally, we 'judge' someone's career work against their best stuff... (commercially and musically).

I personally, however, don't think Prince's music after 1987 (or, live, in 1988) was ever completely essential or vital again. Even at its best, it lacked a certain something that had been there from 1980 to 1988. It's just the way it is with any great artist with a huge prime period -- there is only a limited period of time during which you can exemplify the spirit of the age (the zeitgeist, if you're German) and also transcend it.

In Prince's case, however, the commercial fall-off from the 1999 tour/Purple Rain/1985-1986 down to the 90s and 2000s is very severe -- more severe than for more other mega-famous artists. Even though Michael Jackson, for example, just kept repeating himself with music / videos / plastic-surgeries after 1983, he did so with infrequent albums that still sold millions each. Prince just wasn't arsed enough about career management to try to maximize his own commercial potential after it started to dip, and as a result it dipped more and more. But that does color our perception of his later work.

Many people would agree with you that Prince's golden age ended around 1988. However, in contrast to many people I don't see this as something to feel bad about or criticize Prince for. This kind of creative arc is a near-universal phenomenon in all artists' work. It's simply a fact of life. To Prince's credit, the path to his creative peak lasted much longer than most artists.

To me what's as equally impressive as Prince's golden years is that he kept going in the decades following when he could have just surrendered. He maintained an incredible work ethic and released a stunning amount of quality music. He continued to reinvent himself and later in life started to support other artists in their own rise, which is a great use of his talents. So while there were certainly more bumps in the road after 1988 his stamina and endurance in the long years following I think are as impressive as the work he put out when it all came so easily.

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Reply #37 posted 02/07/17 9:42am

themend

databank said:

Prince said it well himself in a song on The Truth: "my only competition is me in the past". If Emancipation, Newpower Soul or Rave had been D'Angelo's second album or Maxwell's first album, or if Mplsound had been Calvin Harris' or Bruno Mars' first or second album, everyone would still be raving about them today. The problem is that Prince's music was so significantly relevant, influential and innovative in the 80's that people can't help but judging his later works in comparison, as proven not only here but also with every positive critic about any possible later album stating "his best album since Sign O The Times" (making each of his later albums "his best since 1987" depending on whom you're asking, which shows the vanity of such evaluations).


Another problem IMHO is that Prince's crossover played against him: Prince's music is by essence rooted in both African-American music, synthpop and electronic dance music, even his rock records owe more to Hendrix and Funkadelic than to Led Zep or Dylan, but when you see that a great majority of Prince fans seem to be into rock and folk, it's no wonder they have a hard time getting into his later works.


And finally a great number of people who believe they are Prince fans are not. They have a extremely strong relationship with a certain era of Prince's music but IMHO not a deep understanding of, or empathic connexion with Prince's music as a whole. The deep essence of Prince's work has never changed throughout his career, but people who do not connect to this very essence cannot but fail to adhere to later works.


In the end I believe the appreciation of works of art often says more about the people than about the works of art themselves.


Prince's "golden age", as awesome as it may have been, only represent a decade out of a career that spanned 4 decades. It's likely that future generations, those people who weren't there to experience the glory of what was Prince's career in the 80's, will evaluate his whole body of work from a more neutral perspective, and that his later works will be rediscovered with more enthusiasm over the years.




Whoa! I've read some pretty arrogant posts from you over the years and just chuckled to myself quietly, but this..? Even for you, this is bad.
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Reply #38 posted 02/07/17 9:43am

databank

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themend said:

databank said:

Prince said it well himself in a song on The Truth: "my only competition is me in the past". If Emancipation, Newpower Soul or Rave had been D'Angelo's second album or Maxwell's first album, or if Mplsound had been Calvin Harris' or Bruno Mars' first or second album, everyone would still be raving about them today. The problem is that Prince's music was so significantly relevant, influential and innovative in the 80's that people can't help but judging his later works in comparison, as proven not only here but also with every positive critic about any possible later album stating "his best album since Sign O The Times" (making each of his later albums "his best since 1987" depending on whom you're asking, which shows the vanity of such evaluations).

Another problem IMHO is that Prince's crossover played against him: Prince's music is by essence rooted in both African-American music, synthpop and electronic dance music, even his rock records owe more to Hendrix and Funkadelic than to Led Zep or Dylan, but when you see that a great majority of Prince fans seem to be into rock and folk, it's no wonder they have a hard time getting into his later works.

And finally a great number of people who believe they are Prince fans are not. They have a extremely strong relationship with a certain era of Prince's music but IMHO not a deep understanding of, or empathic connexion with Prince's music as a whole. The deep essence of Prince's work has never changed throughout his career, but people who do not connect to this very essence cannot but fail to adhere to later works.

In the end I believe the appreciation of works of art often says more about the people than about the works of art themselves.

Prince's "golden age", as awesome as it may have been, only represent a decade out of a career that spanned 4 decades. It's likely that future generations, those people who weren't there to experience the glory of what was Prince's career in the 80's, will evaluate his whole body of work from a more neutral perspective, and that his later works will be rediscovered with more enthusiasm over the years.

Whoa! I've read some pretty arrogant posts from you over the years and just chuckled to myself quietly, but this..? Even for you, this is bad.

It is what it is.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #39 posted 02/07/17 9:43am

databank

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BartVanHemelen said:

databank said:

It's likely that future generations, those people who weren't there to experience the glory of what was Prince's career in the 80's, will evaluate his whole body of work from a more neutral perspective, and that his later works will be rediscovered with more enthusiasm over the years.

.

Ah, so the NINETEEN YEARS that have passed since Emancipation was released haven't been long enough to discover its brilliance?

.

I recently tried listening to CD1 again, and I barely made it to the end. It was exactly as I'd remembered: half-assed ideas, much padding to get the 12 songs to reach 60 minutes, endless whining, etc.

.

Just answer me this: how come Prince couldn't be arsed to play his post-WBR music live? To keep those records in print? How come other artists didn't bother covering those songs?

shrug

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #40 posted 02/07/17 9:49am

OnlyNDaUsa

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like he said in "Don't Play Me" "(his) only competition is well (him) in the past"

he knew in 1996 that his new stuff was sometimes over shadowed by the old...



when 1999 came out i was 13 it was more WOW than when 20ten came out when i was 41

If "Assault" rifles are banned... COPS first! If they want to TRY to take them from the PEOPLE they should set the example!
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Reply #41 posted 02/07/17 10:15am

SomeSoldier

OnlyNDaUsa said:

like he said in "Don't Play Me" "(his) only competition is well (him) in the past"

he knew in 1996 that his new stuff was sometimes over shadowed by the old...



when 1999 came out i was 13 it was more WOW than when 20ten came out when i was 41


That last line pretty much sums it up, doesn't it? It is true that his later albums are more derivative, and we often got quantity at the expense of quality, but there is an awful lot to enjoy in his post-Warner work. But by the time it was out a lot of us were not teenagers anymore.
As for the previous poster who mentioned that Prince didn't play his newer music... In the last gigs I went to he played Musicology, Funknroll, Thw Breakdown, Plectrumelectrum, Fixurlifeup, ChOs and Disorder, I like it there, Cause and Effect and a few others...
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Reply #42 posted 02/07/17 10:17am

UncleJam

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It's very simple...from 1980-1988, Prince set trends. After that, he followed trends. Still did things his way, tha talent was still undeniable, he still put on the best live shows...but his studio output suffered from him trying to be "hip".

Make it so, Number One...
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Reply #43 posted 02/07/17 10:18am

databank

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

like he said in "Don't Play Me" "(his) only competition is well (him) in the past"

he knew in 1996 that his new stuff was sometimes over shadowed by the old...



when 1999 came out i was 13 it was more WOW than when 20ten came out when i was 41

That's a truly interesting statement. I'm 40, I have a near-5000 records collection: you could nearly say I've heard it all. Did I lose my enthusiasm for new music? Nope. Am I as often ecstatic or impressed as I was when I was 15 or 20? No. You could probably give me a 4 CD set of Prince outtakes I've never heard from 1980-1988 tomorrow, I'm sure I'd trip on it a lot but not as much as I would have if I'd gotten it when I was 20. Prince fans grew old, and the older most people get the most uninterested in new things they get: see our parents who got stuck, for the most of them, in 1970.

I see a lot of new kids here since Prince passed: to them, in terms of their personnal history, Purple Rain is no different from Newpower Soul or Lotusflow3r, they're discovering the whole thing, and even though they know that P's 80's work is more valued, their personal experience of growing up with his music will be the same for all those records, the same my personal relation to For You to lovesexy is the same, because Batman is the first album I bought when released, and all my personal recollections of anything 78-88 are connected with 1990-1991, when I got all those records.

The result is: the more months pass, the more when a thread is created about such or such album, the more enthusiastic feedback you get while before, a thread about most post-1995 albums would be 80% bashing and 20% enthusiasm. It's already begun.

BTW Bart, I have always so far, always, been proven right by History, so u don't wanna gamble with me on that wink

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Reply #44 posted 02/07/17 11:02am

Se7en

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Right after Prince died, a buddy of mine was sincerely interested in hearing more of Prince's music (not just the same old dozen songs on the radio).

He had heard about the 40-some released albums, but knew that he'd only heard the Purple Rain album and whatever had played on the radio.

So, I loaned him only the WB years to get started. He completely lost interest right after Batman.

He had an open mind, and a "free" experience, but just wasn't a convert. I almost think that in some ways, you had to "be there" as it was happening. I don't know if you get the same enjoyment from hearing it all starting NOW.



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Reply #45 posted 02/07/17 11:38am

databank

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Se7en said:

Right after Prince died, a buddy of mine was sincerely interested in hearing more of Prince's music (not just the same old dozen songs on the radio).

He had heard about the 40-some released albums, but knew that he'd only heard the Purple Rain album and whatever had played on the radio.

So, I loaned him only the WB years to get started. He completely lost interest right after Batman.

He had an open mind, and a "free" experience, but just wasn't a convert. I almost think that in some ways, you had to "be there" as it was happening. I don't know if you get the same enjoyment from hearing it all starting NOW.



Well my GF, who only knew and liked the hits, suddenly got totally into P with... HnR Pt. 2 only a few months before P passed!

Back in the late 90's or early 2000's I remember ppl into electronica and hip-hop who told me they really didn't like P and I'd play them P Control, Return Of The Bump Squad, Big Fun, Days Of Wild and the like and they'd be trippin'.

One friend who's into alternative music and never paid attention to P totally tripped on Face Down, comparing it to the Beastie Boys whome she loved.

Another friend back in the early 2000's who's a musician and a hardcore jazz and funk afficionado fell in love with Prince and asked me for his whole discography... after I played him Newpower Soul.

So u never know, it depends on people.

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Reply #46 posted 02/07/17 12:26pm

tab32792

To put it simply, yes. I did too for a while until after he died. A lot of stuff I didn't care for before or even listened to I love now. A lot of it is up there with the 80's stuff anyway once you listen without prejudice. Even to the very end. As a whole, his last 4 albums have gems
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Reply #47 posted 02/07/17 3:05pm

djThunderfunk

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I never thought Prince "lost it". Sure, he passed his "peak", but continued to create great music.

Whereas I find that not all of the later albums were essential as a whole, to me, they all contain essential tracks. There aren't many artists I can say that about.

One thing I find interesting but rarely discussed: almost all of the material from what people like to consider the essential years was done prior to the existence of Paisley Park studios. I think maybe having his own studio available all the time had some negative effects. No urgency, no get in get the track down, get out. Less variety, recording in the same studio with the same equipment and same settings etc... sterilizing the sound. Hell, no more recording in warehouse that clearly is not the ideal setup for a recording, yet yeilding amazing results (Let's Go Crazy).

Again, I've of the opinion that he created great stuff right up till the end, but of course he didn't maintain his peak forever. That's why it's called a "peak", no? Furthermore I maintain that what drop off there was doesn't come down to creative spark alone but is also affected by everything else that goes into making a record and how it is presented.

sorry for the unfocused ramblings... lol wink

Ross Perot was right!!
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Reply #48 posted 02/07/17 4:18pm

anangellooksdo
wn

I think it came slowly after April. I remember a lot of us here discussing away the HnR albums. Opening our minds to a spiritual meaning behind AOA and Way Back Home. Of course many had already heard AOA but I think we were all still learning about those last records together and I think our sharing was tremendous.
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Reply #49 posted 02/07/17 4:45pm

MD431Madcat

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UncleJam speaks with much Wisdom!!!! cool

UncleJam said:

It's very simple...from 1980-1988, Prince set trends. After that, he followed trends. Still did things his way, tha talent was still undeniable, he still put on the best live shows...but his studio output suffered from him trying to be "hip".

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Reply #50 posted 02/07/17 7:16pm

luvsexy4all

criminally overlooked in the 90's....and even in the 00's

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Reply #51 posted 02/07/17 9:16pm

sonshine

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He should have listened to others when it came to (record) business management. Hell he should have listened to others about a lot of things along the way - besides Larry Graham, that is. People are lazy I guess and they just aren't going to work that hard to find someone's music.
My husband and kids spent years rolling their eyes and covering their ears anytime I mentioned Prince. I politely used headphones so as not to subject them to "my" music. After Apr 21st I didn't care about that anymore. I was almost giddy when my 16 yo step-daughter excitedly asked "who's this?!" one day as P Control was playing. When I told her she said "Really? Featuring who?" Lol I found that hilarious. I non-chalantly played some other songs I figured would be up her alley. A lot of people here might not think his rap was strong but I know some 16 year old girls right now that are digging it. Not saYing that's necessarily a good thing but it's something. That being said there's a lot of his music she wouldn't bother with. Another example: my husband stopped what he was doing one day when he heard "Baby Knows" and now he even asks me to "play that kind of Prince music" for him all the time. My "musical" son loves his jazzy stuff.
My point is that his popularity was hurt as much by his lack of marketing skills as it was listeners lacking open minds.
It's a hurtful place, the world, in and of itself. We don't need to add to it. We all need one another. ~ PRN
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Reply #52 posted 02/07/17 10:23pm

purplerabbitho
le

BIngo!!!--the lack of marketing skills is dead on the money.

I remember some writer who stated (I am paraphrasing) that Prince didn't know whether he wanted to be a superstar or an underground artist.

sonshine said:

He should have listened to others when it came to (record) business management. Hell he should have listened to others about a lot of things along the way - besides Larry Graham, that is. People are lazy I guess and they just aren't going to work that hard to find someone's music. My husband and kids spent years rolling their eyes and covering their ears anytime I mentioned Prince. I politely used headphones so as not to subject them to "my" music. After Apr 21st I didn't care about that anymore. I was almost giddy when my 16 yo step-daughter excitedly asked "who's this?!" one day as P Control was playing. When I told her she said "Really? Featuring who?" Lol I found that hilarious. I non-chalantly played some other songs I figured would be up her alley. A lot of people here might not think his rap was strong but I know some 16 year old girls right now that are digging it. Not saYing that's necessarily a good thing but it's something. That being said there's a lot of his music she wouldn't bother with. Another example: my husband stopped what he was doing one day when he heard "Baby Knows" and now he even asks me to "play that kind of Prince music" for him all the time. My "musical" son loves his jazzy stuff. My point is that his popularity was hurt as much by his lack of marketing skills as it was listeners lacking open minds.

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Reply #53 posted 02/07/17 11:28pm

PeteSilas

databank said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

like he said in "Don't Play Me" "(his) only competition is well (him) in the past"

he knew in 1996 that his new stuff was sometimes over shadowed by the old...



when 1999 came out i was 13 it was more WOW than when 20ten came out when i was 41

That's a truly interesting statement. I'm 40, I have a near-5000 records collection: you could nearly say I've heard it all. Did I lose my enthusiasm for new music? Nope. Am I as often ecstatic or impressed as I was when I was 15 or 20? No. You could probably give me a 4 CD set of Prince outtakes I've never heard from 1980-1988 tomorrow, I'm sure I'd trip on it a lot but not as much as I would have if I'd gotten it when I was 20. Prince fans grew old, and the older most people get the most uninterested in new things they get: see our parents who got stuck, for the most of them, in 1970.

I see a lot of new kids here since Prince passed: to them, in terms of their personnal history, Purple Rain is no different from Newpower Soul or Lotusflow3r, they're discovering the whole thing, and even though they know that P's 80's work is more valued, their personal experience of growing up with his music will be the same for all those records, the same my personal relation to For You to lovesexy is the same, because Batman is the first album I bought when released, and all my personal recollections of anything 78-88 are connected with 1990-1991, when I got all those records.

The result is: the more months pass, the more when a thread is created about such or such album, the more enthusiastic feedback you get while before, a thread about most post-1995 albums would be 80% bashing and 20% enthusiasm. It's already begun.

BTW Bart, I have always so far, always, been proven right by History, so u don't wanna gamble with me on that wink

I've said that before too but no one wants to hear that THEY might be the one who's getting old. I mean is sex the same as it was when you were young? Of course not, no way it can be as mysterious and magical as it was with life experience. Some people think it's the genre of music, that rock and roll is a young man's game and that other forms like classical and jazz might be different. Many of the great composers did great work into their later stages of life, and one thing for sure, with time, many musicians get a better handle on musicianship, Prince certainly was a greater singer in 04 than he was in 84, he was easily a technically better guitarist too, at least to my limited guitarist ear. I mentioned Bruce Springsteen who said he was dissapointed by the reception of his brilliant latter day work "wrecking ball" an album that stands up to any of his others. What I also found interesting was that he says he's a better singer than he ever was, and you know what? He's probably right, he admits he was never a great singer but that he's probably as good as he ever was now. And he can still write a song that can get me crying or joyous.

One more thing, how many people just drop an artist as soon as they do one thing they don't like? People are so fickle and quick to move one that it doesn't take much, how many fans did Bruce lose when he danced in Dancing In The Dark or fired the E Street Band or hired hip hop producers? How many fans did the beatles lose when they said they were bigger than christ? How many fans did Prince lose with ATWIAD, the We Are The World debacle and the increasingly psychedelic albums not to mention the WB dispute, the name change etc.., Half of those really don't have any relationship to the quality of the music. Michael Jackson lost most of his american fans after the Child molestation scandal but some of his music was as good or better than what he did in the 80's.

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Reply #54 posted 02/08/17 3:32am

bonatoc

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I remember having an epiphany with MPLSound.
From start to finish, I had a big teenage smile on my face, headphones on, feet stompin' and head boppin'.

OK, I was high as a kite.
But still.

It's probable grown-ups turn to recreational drugs or alcohol to get rid of the adult inside, that sad, pathetic, tired traitor to their inner child cause.
It's not their fault, it's the daily burden and taxes and shit, watchagonnado.
But secretely, they know it's their fault, they just surrendered. Hence the substances intakes.

Anyway, when the adolescent in you comes back with a vengeance, that's when you go: "Yeah, Skipper, you never lost it. Timberlake and Williams and Mars can kiss your ass, for they would be nowhere without you". MPLSound is the ultimate proof Prince excels at whatever pop genre he tries. But it's also childish and insecure, because he didn't have to go after them to prove how good he was. But was it the real purpose?

Maybe the later works were simply Trojan horses. A way to hook the youngsters into the real groove. Christopher and the boombox: "Tricky my boy? Our world!".
I don't care for the missed commercial successes. Prince made sure the marketing was enough to make some cash flow his way, but he never compromised.

Hardcore fans had a dream of him doing "serious" music for the rest of his days. Of course "Chocolate Box" was unnerving. But the "serious", innovating spirit was left for the stage. He got better and better and better. I just wish he didn't damage "Purple Rain" with the grandiose encores and reprises : I can't stand the '00s versions, where he makes the drums stop during the "who-hoo"s, it's just too much. But in the end, that's his song, he has the right to do whathever he wants with it.

The live gigs became the place where he had the most fun, especially the aftershows.
You don't need an open mind to appreciate them, it's blatant how good the music is. It oozes fun.

There was this dichotomy between the god-level talent displayed on stage (again, so much passion and commitment after so many years doing the same songs over and over is just incredible), and the going-after-the-trends later albums.

But maybe it came from a humble place. Another way to avoid repeating himself. "I do not master this musical vocabulary, but let's see what I can get out of it".

It was simply too much for the audience, the media, even the fans. Too many albums, too much presence, and that disgusting, irritating talent that never showed any sign of weakness. Just when the aforementioned so-called musicians could rejoice Hit'n'Run wasn't SOTT, you had gems like "Groovy Potential" and "Black Muse" to put them back into depression, into the sad realization that you can't beat years and years of hard work and relentless research with a stolen sample and a faker's pose.

They can make millions, but their music ain't worth a dime.
Serves them lazy punks just right.
"You're either this, or that".

[Edited 2/8/17 3:38am]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #55 posted 02/08/17 3:37am

CherryMoon57

avatar

PeteSilas said:

purplerabbithole said:

I know I am obsessed with this topic. IMO, Prince's genius wasn't a fluke or the result of the right collaborations.

Since i want to like everything he does, maybe I lack objectivity. I guess it is all subjective anyhow. {I am not saying I like all his songs; I am saying I am inclined to go into the listening experience expecting to hear something of merit.} But i guess my real question is "Do people judge P's music for its intrinsive value?" Is it possible to listen to each song as if it is the first song you have ever heard a from Prince?" I try to do it that way but am I correct in doing so?

In literary analysis college courses, we are taught about intrinsic value--which is reading a work of literature for its inherent value first. Only later after evaluating it on its own terms, were we encouraged to place the literary work in the context of its times or in juxtaposition against previous work.

Should P songs receive an 'intrinsic' grade and then a 'contextual' one?

[Edited 2/5/17 15:44pm]

[Edited 2/5/17 16:00pm]

I always liked his music, I think the naysayers are just trying to setup a dramatic narrative where the great artist tragically declines. It happened with Elvis, McCartney also got brutal reviews. I think what happens is people start taking a guy for granted Elvis did some shitty songs but he always did some good ones in their somewhere, right up until his death. Some of my favorite Elvis songs are the last ones but of course no one really cares about those or listens to those because he was "ruined" by the drugs and the colonel and hollywood and his own bad taste, bullshit! If people start losing interest and not paying attention anymore, the artist is only partly to blame for that. It's kind of of like falling in love, it's just a stage, the real relationship takes both parties to maintain and i assert that most fans are lazy listeners. Prince never fell off in my mind and he even got better in so many ways and he never got discouraged or dissuaded by his own so called fans bitching about his tragic decline. I can tell you, it's hard as hell to be creative when you face indifference, how do you go through the process when you know there is no reward? How did he do it? I don't know. Maybe because he just had to.


Best post I've read in a while.

Open your heart open your mind
A train is leaving all day
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Reply #56 posted 02/08/17 3:53am

CherryMoon57

avatar

I think Prince got pigeonholed in the highly publicised Purple Rain era and some fans became reluctant to follow him on his own rich and varied musical journey. At least his death has brought a bit more awareness of that fact...

Open your heart open your mind
A train is leaving all day
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Reply #57 posted 02/08/17 4:16am

PeteSilas

bonatoc said:

I remember having an epiphany with MPLSound.
From start to finish, I had a big teenage smile on my face, headphones on, feet stompin' and head boppin'.

OK, I was high as a kite.
But still.

It's probable grown-ups turn to recreational drugs or alcohol to get rid of the adult inside, that sad, pathetic, tired traitor to their inner child cause.
It's not their fault, it's the daily burden and taxes and shit, watchagonnado.
But secretely, they know it's their fault, they just surrendered. Hence the substances intakes.

Anyway, when the adolescent in you comes back with a vengeance, that's when you go: "Yeah, Skipper, you never lost it. Timberlake and Williams and Mars can kiss your ass, for they would be nowhere without you". MPLSound is the ultimate proof Prince excels at whatever pop genre he tries. But it's also childish and insecure, because he didn't have to go after them to prove how good he was. But was it the real purpose?

Maybe the later works were simply Trojan horses. A way to hook the youngsters into the real groove. Christopher and the boombox: "Tricky my boy? Our world!".
I don't care for the missed commercial successes. Prince made sure the marketing was enough to make some cash flow his way, but he never compromised.

Hardcore fans had a dream of him doing "serious" music for the rest of his days. Of course "Chocolate Box" was unnerving. But the "serious", innovating spirit was left for the stage. He got better and better and better. I just wish he didn't damage "Purple Rain" with the grandiose encores and reprises : I can't stand the '00s versions, where he makes the drums stop during the "who-hoo"s, it's just too much. But in the end, that's his song, he has the right to do whathever he wants with it.

The live gigs became the place where he had the most fun, especially the aftershows.
You don't need an open mind to appreciate them, it's blatant how good the music is. It oozes fun.

There was this dichotomy between the god-level talent displayed on stage (again, so much passion and commitment after so many years doing the same songs over and over is just incredible), and the going-after-the-trends later albums.

But maybe it came from a humble place. Another way to avoid repeating himself. "I do not master this musical vocabulary, but let's see what I can get out of it".

It was simply too much for the audience, the media, even the fans. Too many albums, too much presence, and that disgusting, irritating talent that never showed any sign of weakness. Just when the aforementioned so-called musicians could rejoice Hit'n'Run wasn't SOTT, you had gems like "Groovy Potential" and "Black Muse" to put them back into depression, into the sad realization that you can't beat years and years of hard work and relentless research with a stolen sample and a faker's pose.

They can make millions, but their music ain't worth a dime.
Serves them lazy punks just right.
"You're either this, or that".

[Edited 2/8/17 3:38am]

But he did mature and change, way back home is as good as just about anything he's ever done and your likeing minneapolis sound just shows how one guys treasure is another's bore. I have said more than once the whole lotusflower/minnapolis sound/bria thing was his weakest release for me, and i still say that. I've seen how some people really think it's brilliant work but I don't here it. the valente cd I just stopped listening to it's so bad. So, no, no one bats a thousand, no one but he comes as close as anyone does to it.

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Reply #58 posted 02/08/17 4:28am

7salles

Prince wasn´t sooo much better in the early days. You think so because you got old. It´s all nostalgia and emotional attachment to the past.

All of this songs have classic potential (as DOZENS of others)

1+1+1=3

Family name

Groovy Potential

Sticky like glue

Somewhere here on earth

Dreamer

Colonized mind

Dance 4 me

This could be us

Way back home

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Reply #59 posted 02/08/17 5:24am

Purplestar88

Yes, in some cases people do lack an open mind when they evalute Prince's later work. I am just happy that he was able to created music and do his thing. You can't satisty everybody. A lot of artists fall into that trap. If Beyonce or Bruno Mars would have release Black Sweat or Art Official Age people would be praising it and they would get five Grammy for it.

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