blizzybiz said:

Reading some of the responses here, it's clear that a number of non-blacks seem to think they understand better what the word means or does not mean to us black people. As far as the use of the word in the context of Prince's music, one has to consider the time in which he used it. As a 45 yr old black man, I can say that I definltey used to used the word in the 90's as a term of endearment with my black friends, and all the time. It was "cool" to use. Especially when NWA came out; it just heightened the power of the word, as back in the day, it was an issue of "taking back" the word and turning it into a "positive" (and I stress that this is the word as it ends in "a" as opposed to "er". The "er" ending, when heard from a white person, is like being shocked or hit with a sledgehammer). But like anything with youth, you start to think about things and understand that what you thought might be wrong, and going in another direction would serve you better. Such was the case with this word. I'm sure that Prince, just like anything else in his career, thought about this word, why he started using it in the first place, and grew out of it, but used it totally as a term of black endearment, or to call out someone, etc., just the way we used it in reality. Even at 45, when I get with friends from college or just hanging out, we still use the word when it's "just us". Yeah, there are numerous ways that we say it around each other, but to put it bluntly, I know when someone uses it to express camradere vs. anger vs. jealousy, etc. It's just an innate thing that we will never be able to explain to others who claim that the word is bad in any context and point to the fact that if any one of another race said it to us, we'd get pissed. Well yea.

FYI unless someone tells you there ethnicity, we really don't know who is what.

.
The word is no longer used in the company of intimacy. It is all over the place, it is in the workplace, it is in public, it is in music that travels All Over The World. So there is an irresponsibility to those who put it in music not realizing that the worlds 1000s of different ethnicities and nationalities are not going to understand the reasonings and rationalizing. I saw a video of some Nigerians(I beleive) who were calling themselves Ni&&a as a result of listening to some hip hop, and some other non-African non-Black ethnic groups doing the same.

.

As Winton Marsailes said in the video I post above 'It is shameful.'

.

Any Prince songs with it in it I don't listen to again. Gold Ni&&a, I've never listened to.

djThunderfunk said:

pdiddy2011 said:

I beg to differ. Typing the word and saying the word are equivalent. I don't care if it is for discussion sake. Besides, everyone knows what the N word is (when used as a term) and it hardly takes any more time to type, rather than spelling out the word you CLAIM you don't use.

Your point on the words use as a term of endearment is lost on me. Just because you say a word can't be used for friendly purposes as well as nonfriendly (antagonistic) purposes doesn't make it so. For example, "What's up my, MF!" versus "I wish you would, MF". (MF being the expletive.) One MF was used in a friendly manner, one MF used in a nonfriendly (antagonistic). The same is done with the N word.

Is this the only instance of a word being so powerful and inflamatory that it can't even be used in CONTEXT, it must instead be replaced by calling it the N-Word?

Context DOES matter. Discussing a word in context and using the word are NOT the same thing.

I agree, context does matter. However, using the term the n word, which is universally known and accepted, seems much more respectful to those who never want to use the word or hear the word. Using the word to argue that it shouldn't be used is laughable.

OldFriends4Sale said:

pdiddy2011 said:

I beg to differ. Typing the word and saying the word are equivalent. I don't care if it is for discussion sake. Besides, everyone knows what the N word is (when used as a term) and it hardly takes any more time to type, rather than spelling out the word you CLAIM you don't use.

Your point on the words use as a term of endearment is lost on me. Just because you say a word can't be used for friendly purposes as well as nonfriendly (antagonistic) purposes doesn't make it so. For example, "What's up my, MF!" versus "I wish you would, MF". (MF being the expletive.) One MF was used in a friendly manner, one MF used in a nonfriendly (antagonistic). The same is done with the N word.

so how do we discuss things if we can't type it?

Hardly the same.

.

At first you said I'm not informed of the use of the word.
now you are saying I probably use it...

MF is hardly the same as a broken English form of Ni&&er

.

The use of the term is bogus.

And I'm glad Prince stopped using it in his music.

1. Using the term that is universally known to talk about the word but not use the word is how, as I previously explained. If you want to continue to use the word in writing, go ahead, but don't act like you abhor the word, because you can EASILY avoid ever using it, even in writing.

2. I thought your argument was that the N word was not used as a term of endearment. I disagreed. At least I thought thats what you meant by the word bogus.

3. It makes no difference whether MF and the N word are the same; the point was there are words, that are used both positively and negatively.

4. Again, you say the use of the term is bogus. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean when you say bogus. When I hear bogus, I equate it with being false.

pdiddy2011 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

so how do we discuss things if we can't type it?

Hardly the same.

.

At first you said I'm not informed of the use of the word.
now you are saying I probably use it...

MF is hardly the same as a broken English form of Ni&&er

.

The use of the term is bogus.

And I'm glad Prince stopped using it in his music.

1. Using the term that is universally known to talk about the word but not use the word is how, as I previously explained. If you want to continue to use the word in writing, go ahead, but don't act like you abhor the word, because you can EASILY avoid ever using it, even in writing.

2. I thought your argument was that the N word was not used as a term of endearment. I disagreed. At least I thought thats what you meant by the word bogus.

3. It makes no difference whether MF and the N word are the same; the point was there are words, that are used both positively and negatively.

4. Again, you say the use of the term is bogus. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean when you say bogus. When I hear bogus, I equate it with being false.

1. you are pulling at straws. I don't want to avoid it in an 'academic' discussion, even if it is purpleology

2. You need to go back and read my arguement then. I said I know that people say it is a term of endearment BUT this whole use of it is bogus, just because they say it was a 'slang' it is the same word as Ni&&er

3. Ni&&er is not in the same class as MF: Guinea, Dego, Wop, Nigger, Spik, Kike etc not the same as MF

4. yes bogus ie falls, Nigga is just Nigger said with slang. It is the same word.

OldFriends4Sale said:

pdiddy2011 said:

1. Using the term that is universally known to talk about the word but not use the word is how, as I previously explained. If you want to continue to use the word in writing, go ahead, but don't act like you abhor the word, because you can EASILY avoid ever using it, even in writing.

2. I thought your argument was that the N word was not used as a term of endearment. I disagreed. At least I thought thats what you meant by the word bogus.

3. It makes no difference whether MF and the N word are the same; the point was there are words, that are used both positively and negatively.

4. Again, you say the use of the term is bogus. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean when you say bogus. When I hear bogus, I equate it with being false.

1. you are pulling at straws. I don't want to avoid it in an 'academic' discussion, even if it is purpleology

2. You need to go back and read my arguement then. I said I know that people say it is a term of endearment BUT this whole use of it is bogus, just because they say it was a 'slang' it is the same word as Ni&&er

3. Ni&&er is not in the same class as MF: Guinea, Dego, Wop, Nigger, Spik, Kike etc not the same as MF

4. yes bogus ie falls, Nigga is just Nigger said with slang. It is the same word.

As is often the cae, I'll just agree to disagree with you.

Though, if someone says they're using the word as a term of endearment, how can you say that is bogus?

Just because you don't use it as a term of endearment, doesn't mean many other people don't.

Again, I never said MF was in the same class. I was making a different point, but I won't explain it again.

OldFriends4Sale said:

blizzybiz said:

Reading some of the responses here, it's clear that a number of non-blacks seem to think they understand better what the word means or does not mean to us black people. As far as the use of the word in the context of Prince's music, one has to consider the time in which he used it. As a 45 yr old black man, I can say that I definltey used to used the word in the 90's as a term of endearment with my black friends, and all the time. It was "cool" to use. Especially when NWA came out; it just heightened the power of the word, as back in the day, it was an issue of "taking back" the word and turning it into a "positive" (and I stress that this is the word as it ends in "a" as opposed to "er". The "er" ending, when heard from a white person, is like being shocked or hit with a sledgehammer). But like anything with youth, you start to think about things and understand that what you thought might be wrong, and going in another direction would serve you better. Such was the case with this word. I'm sure that Prince, just like anything else in his career, thought about this word, why he started using it in the first place, and grew out of it, but used it totally as a term of black endearment, or to call out someone, etc., just the way we used it in reality. Even at 45, when I get with friends from college or just hanging out, we still use the word when it's "just us". Yeah, there are numerous ways that we say it around each other, but to put it bluntly, I know when someone uses it to express camradere vs. anger vs. jealousy, etc. It's just an innate thing that we will never be able to explain to others who claim that the word is bad in any context and point to the fact that if any one of another race said it to us, we'd get pissed. Well yea.

FYI unless someone tells you there ethnicity, we really don't know who is what.

.
The word is no longer used in the company of intimacy. It is all over the place, it is in the workplace, it is in public, it is in music that travels All Over The World. So there is an irresponsibility to those who put it in music not realizing that the worlds 1000s of different ethnicities and nationalities are not going to understand the reasonings and rationalizing. I saw a video of some Nigerians(I beleive) who were calling themselves Ni&&a as a result of listening to some hip hop, and some other non-African non-Black ethnic groups doing the same.

.

As Winton Marsailes said in the video I post above 'It is shameful.'

.

Any Prince songs with it in it I don't listen to again. Gold Ni&&a, I've never listened to.

well, I beg to differ. I can tell that you're not black reading your posts, especially about this issue. And, if you fidn it offensive, more power to you. But myself, I love listening to NWA blasting in the car, specifically to hear and yell the word. Also, Wynton, like everyone else, is entitled to his opinion, but he is not the standard bearer for black people. Bottom line - to each his own, and to thine own self be true.

With all due respect...

When the word was used globally during it's heyday, between slavery and the late 90/00s, most White folks didn't seem to have a problem with it.

I think when rap music accentuated that Black people were using the word in a way that White people were powerless to either control or stop, it became an issue.

Now, generations later, White kids who don't remember when it was used on TV are appalled when it's used by Quentin Tarantino in a movie. It became a "cause".

White people have a history of feeling entitled to bestow something, yes even that word, then want to forever dictate it's use and the spin regarding it...especially if what they've given is originally due to their bad behavior and the victims of that bad behavior turn the "gift" into something for their own preferred use. It's in White folks' nature to do that I guess.

Rock & Roll was too wild, until Pat Boone cleaned it up. Certain topics and fashion and books, etc were too whatever until White folks gave those things their stamp of approval. Nothing personal, just history. Lol

But again, all this was simply another example of this...During slavery, Blacks were given the offal (garbage) from butchering meat to eat. Blacks turned those bits into yumminess...Fast forward to 2017, the prices for chicken wings, turkey necks, pork neck bones, chitlins, etc are skyrocketing due to White folks reclaiming those things as "delicacies", although in grocery stores in the neighborhood they're still not as expensive.

Don't even get me started on "gentrification" of real estate areas that White folks abandoned generations ago cuz nonWhites had moved into those areas. Watch the History Channel...Drugs that are illegal right now were in common use within White communities...until they couldn't see a way to benefit financially and outlawed them, including alcohol.

The lost goes on and on...

It's almost as if White folks wanna say that if that word isn't gonna be used for the purpose they originally intended then they don't want it used at all. Lol

Doesn't make White folks all racist, doesn't make them all bad. It's just that nonWhites are quite familiar with White folks trying to regulate stuff that goes on in other ethnicities cuz White folks wake up always feeling that they should interfere in that way, it comes from the sense of White entitlement.

[Edited 2/2/17 21:03pm]

LBrent said:

With all due respect...

When the word was used globally during it's heyday, between slavery and the late 90/00s, most White folks didn't seem to have a problem with it.

I think when rap music accentuated that Black people were using the word in a way that White people were powerless to either control or stop, it became an issue.

Now, generations later, White kids who don't remember when it was used on TV are appalled when it's used by Quentin Tarantino in a movie. It became a "cause".

White people have a history of feeling entitled to bestow something, yes even that word, then want to forever dictate it's use and the spin regarding it...especially if what they've given is originally due to their bad behavior and the victims of that bad behavior turn the "gift" into something for their own preferred use. It's in White folks' nature to do that I guess.

Rock & Roll was too wild, until Pat Boone cleaned it up. Certain topics and fashion and books, etc were too whatever until White folks gave those things their stamp of approval. Nothing personal, just history. Lol

But again, all this was simply another example of this...During slavery, Blacks were given the offal (garbage) from butchering meat to eat. Blacks turned those bits into yumminess...Fast forward to 2017, the prices for chicken wings, turkey necks, pork neck bones, chitlins, etc are skyrocketing due to White folks reclaiming those things as "delicacies", although in grocery stores in the neighborhood they're still not as expensive.

Don't even get me started on "gentrification" of real estate areas that White folks abandoned generations ago cuz nonWhites had moved into those areas. Watch the History Channel...Drugs that are illegal right now were in common use within White communities...until they couldn't see a way to benefit financially and outlawed them, including alcohol.

The lost goes on and on...

It's almost as if White folks wanna say that if that word isn't gonna be used for the purpose they originally intended then they don't want it used at all. Lol

Doesn't make White folks all racist, doesn't make them all bad. It's just that nonWhites are quite familiar with White folks trying to regulate stuff that goes on in other ethnicities cuz White folks wake up always feeling that they should interfere in that way, it comes from the sense of White entitlement.

[Edited 2/2/17 21:03pm]

ummm it is African-Americans that have lead the way of removing that word.
Giving to much power to 'white' folk I think

The idea that Black people are ok with it... and white people are trying to remove it...

Black people know the history of the word and don't want it continued.

blizzybiz said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

FYI unless someone tells you there ethnicity, we really don't know who is what.

.
The word is no longer used in the company of intimacy. It is all over the place, it is in the workplace, it is in public, it is in music that travels All Over The World. So there is an irresponsibility to those who put it in music not realizing that the worlds 1000s of different ethnicities and nationalities are not going to understand the reasonings and rationalizing. I saw a video of some Nigerians(I beleive) who were calling themselves Ni&&a as a result of listening to some hip hop, and some other non-African non-Black ethnic groups doing the same.

.

As Winton Marsailes said in the video I post above 'It is shameful.'

.

Any Prince songs with it in it I don't listen to again. Gold Ni&&a, I've never listened to.

well, I beg to differ. I can tell that you're not black reading your posts, especially about this issue. And, if you fidn it offensive, more power to you. But myself, I love listening to NWA blasting in the car, specifically to hear and yell the word. Also, Wynton, like everyone else, is entitled to his opinion, but he is not the standard bearer for black people. Bottom line - to each his own, and to thine own self be true.

your post tells that you have certain perceptions that you think 'black' people are supposed to be like. What about this topic says 'he cannot be black?' Because all person of black heritage think alike? or agree on everything?

.

I posted those vids because a few too many here are generalizing that 'black' people are ok with it

.

whatever the case. The topic is about the N word in P's music. And I never cared for it.

OldFriends4Sale said:

LBrent said:

With all due respect...

When the word was used globally during it's heyday, between slavery and the late 90/00s, most White folks didn't seem to have a problem with it.

I think when rap music accentuated that Black people were using the word in a way that White people were powerless to either control or stop, it became an issue.

Now, generations later, White kids who don't remember when it was used on TV are appalled when it's used by Quentin Tarantino in a movie. It became a "cause".

White people have a history of feeling entitled to bestow something, yes even that word, then want to forever dictate it's use and the spin regarding it...especially if what they've given is originally due to their bad behavior and the victims of that bad behavior turn the "gift" into something for their own preferred use. It's in White folks' nature to do that I guess.

Rock & Roll was too wild, until Pat Boone cleaned it up. Certain topics and fashion and books, etc were too whatever until White folks gave those things their stamp of approval. Nothing personal, just history. Lol

But again, all this was simply another example of this...During slavery, Blacks were given the offal (garbage) from butchering meat to eat. Blacks turned those bits into yumminess...Fast forward to 2017, the prices for chicken wings, turkey necks, pork neck bones, chitlins, etc are skyrocketing due to White folks reclaiming those things as "delicacies", although in grocery stores in the neighborhood they're still not as expensive.

Don't even get me started on "gentrification" of real estate areas that White folks abandoned generations ago cuz nonWhites had moved into those areas. Watch the History Channel...Drugs that are illegal right now were in common use within White communities...until they couldn't see a way to benefit financially and outlawed them, including alcohol.

The lost goes on and on...

It's almost as if White folks wanna say that if that word isn't gonna be used for the purpose they originally intended then they don't want it used at all. Lol

Doesn't make White folks all racist, doesn't make them all bad. It's just that nonWhites are quite familiar with White folks trying to regulate stuff that goes on in other ethnicities cuz White folks wake up always feeling that they should interfere in that way, it comes from the sense of White entitlement.

[Edited 2/2/17 21:03pm]

ummm it is African-Americans that have lead the way of removing that word.
Giving to much power to 'white' folk I think

The idea that Black people are ok with it... and white people are trying to remove it...

Black people know the history of the word and don't want it continued.

I can't change your perception about this and I don't want to insult you or hurt your feelings either, but trust and believe...What y'all think about this issue "from the Black perspective" isn't what it may appear from looking through the windows of the house. That only tells part of the story. When you stand in the living room or sit around the kitchen table, like I often do, you can hear and see details to the tale.

Sorta like learning investing from college and books when the deeper lessons are learned on the golf courses or in the cigar lounges of country clubs.

S'ok. But truthfully, whatever your ethnicity, if that word's use offends you, don't use it...But please stop worrying about Black people using it however they're using it cuz it's not y'all's problem. And although you don't have to like it, the reality is that unless it's use is outlawed, beyond your control.

[Edited 2/3/17 5:39am]

LBrent said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

ummm it is African-Americans that have lead the way of removing that word.
Giving to much power to 'white' folk I think

The idea that Black people are ok with it... and white people are trying to remove it...

Black people know the history of the word and don't want it continued.

I can't change your perception about this and I don't want to insult you or hurt your feelings either, but trust and believe...What y'all think about this issue "from the Black perspective" isn't what it may appear from looking through the windows of the house. That only tells part of the story. When you stand in the living room or sit around the kitchen table, like I often do, you can hear and see details to the tale.

Sorta like learning investing from college and books when the deeper lessons are learned on the golf courses or in the cigar lounges of country clubs.

S'ok. But truthfully, whatever your ethnicity, if that word's use offends you, don't use it...But please stop worrying about Black people using it however they're using it cuz it's not y'all's problem. And although you don't have to like it, the reality is that unless it's use is outlawed, beyond your control.

[Edited 2/3/17 5:39am]

I've already said it, but your perceptions via cyberspace are off. Unless someone tells U more about their lives, U don't know. Ya'll this and Ya'll that.

You can say the word all you want. But please don't assume most African-Americans are cool with the use of the word.

And again, I'm glad Prince grew up and stopped using it in his music. or at least Tora Tora's music

http://prince.org/msg/105/405787

mostly African-American descendant members against it...

RJOrion said:

@OldFriends4Sale are you implying that blacks that still use "nigga", or "my nigga", as slang or "term of endearment", havent grown up?...you say, "Prince, grew up, and stop using the word...", i just want to be clear...

I'm saying I'm glad Prince matured with the removal of that word from his music

OldFriends4Sale said:

http://prince.org/msg/105/405787

mostly African-American descendant members against it...

Darlin' listen, I know you probably think that your showing proof to validate your point and I applaud your effort but I'm telling you...What you think is going on is not necessarily what's going. What you think you understand is not what's going on.

When all us nonWhites meet up at the "nonWhite Club" meetings, that's not what's being discussed in the way you think. There's a created illusion and subterfuge going on that you are not privy to.

Lemme put it this way and then I can't edge any closer to getting you to understand...nonWhites learned long ago that sometimes you have to stoop to conquer, ask any seditionist/subverter.

LBrent said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

http://prince.org/msg/105/405787

mostly African-American descendant members against it...

Darlin' listen, I know you probably think that your showing proof to validate your point and I applaud your effort but I'm telling you...What you think is going on is not necessarily what's going. What you think you understand is not what's going on.

When all us nonWhites meet up at the "nonWhite Club" meetings, that's not what's being discussed in the way you think. There's a created illusion and subterfuge going on that you are not privy to.

Lemme put it this way and then I can't edge any closer to getting you to understand...nonWhites learned long ago that sometimes you have to stoop to conquer, ask any seditionist/subverter.

the majority of Org members posting against it's use in that link are African-Americans, so I guess their 'proof' is not necessarily what's going on...

reply #49 deep

what is my ethnicity?

[Edited 2/3/17 6:21am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

LBrent said:

Darlin' listen, I know you probably think that your showing proof to validate your point and I applaud your effort but I'm telling you...What you think is going on is not necessarily what's going. What you think you understand is not what's going on.

When all us nonWhites meet up at the "nonWhite Club" meetings, that's not what's being discussed in the way you think. There's a created illusion and subterfuge going on that you are not privy to.

Lemme put it this way and then I can't edge any closer to getting you to understand...nonWhites learned long ago that sometimes you have to stoop to conquer, ask any seditionist/subverter.

reply #49 deep

what is my ethnicity?

I'm done.

It's all about the music anyway, right?

[Edited 2/3/17 6:22am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

LBrent said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

reply #49 deep

what is my ethnicity?

I'm donr.

It's all about the music anyway, right?

definately, Rainbow Children

OldFriends4Sale said:

blizzybiz said:

well, I beg to differ. I can tell that you're not black reading your posts, especially about this issue. And, if you fidn it offensive, more power to you. But myself, I love listening to NWA blasting in the car, specifically to hear and yell the word. Also, Wynton, like everyone else, is entitled to his opinion, but he is not the standard bearer for black people. Bottom line - to each his own, and to thine own self be true.

your post tells that you have certain perceptions that you think 'black' people are supposed to be like. What about this topic says 'he cannot be black?' Because all person of black heritage think alike? or agree on everything?

.

I posted those vids because a few too many here are generalizing that 'black' people are ok with it

.

whatever the case. The topic is about the N word in P's music. And I never cared for it.

lol being black, I'm simply stating what I see and have seen with regard to the word, not what I think black people aer supposed to be like. Not sure what you mean re: ""what about this topic says he cannot be black". To whom are you referring? Also, I didn't generalize anything, I gave my very specific experience with the word still being used. It is, and in the way that's being stated here by others. I mean it is just a fact. To your point you made in another post, yeah I hear other people using it based on the songs that feature it. Do I wince? Yes. But, again, when I meet up with friends (and these brothas are now lawyers, VC's, doctors, etc.,), the word is thrown around. A lot, as a term of endearment. It is what it is.

LBrent said:

S'ok. But truthfully, whatever your ethnicity, if that word's use offends you, don't use it...But please stop worrying about Black people using it however they're using it cuz it's not y'all's problem. And although you don't have to like it, the reality is that unless it's use is outlawed, beyond your control.

My white opinion may be irrelevent, but this sounds perfect to me.

djThunderfunk said:

LBrent said:

S'ok. But truthfully, whatever your ethnicity, if that word's use offends you, don't use it...But please stop worrying about Black people using it however they're using it cuz it's not y'all's problem. And although you don't have to like it, the reality is that unless it's use is outlawed, beyond your control.

My white opinion may be irrelevent, but this sounds perfect to me.

Erm. Thanx...I guess.

Now if y'all'll excuse, I think I'll go make a reeeeeaaaaally strong cup of coffee.

I don't like it in anyone's music.

FullLipsDotNose said:

LBrent said:

djThunderfunk said:

My white opinion may be irrelevent, but this sounds perfect to me.

Erm. Thanx...I guess.

Now if y'all'll excuse, I think I'll go make a reeeeeaaaaally strong cup of coffee.

I get a "Erm" for agreeing with you??

Wow....

djThunderfunk said:

LBrent said:

Erm. Thanx...I guess.

Now if y'all'll excuse, I think I'll go make a reeeeeaaaaally strong cup of coffee.

I get a "Erm" for agreeing with you??

Wow....

LBrent said: