LBrent said:

2freaky4church1 said:

He did it in context.

Ice-T liked it:

Hell yes.

I remember this song. Love IceT. L&O4Life!

LMAO

But on a serious note...For every White boy who loved this song and loved hip-hop and is far from racist, I hope they got IceT's message at the very very very end where a clearly White voice uses the word in a gesture of "I'm down with you" solidarity...and you hear gunshots and IceT says, "I don't play that."

I'll bet as close as he is with Richard Belzer, a NY Jew, Belz ain't using that word around IceT. Lol

So, yes, sing the songs with that word the way the artist intended...just do yourself a favor and don't misinterpret that as a license to use that word casually among Black folks. Listen to a Gary Owen comedy show if you get that reckless urge.

Agreed!! While I feel perfectly okay with singing along to an Ice-T record like this one or properly saying the name of the album Gold Nigga, I would never think it would be okay to use the word casually. Context is everything...

No. I'm grew up hearing the word and am not really bothered by it. I think it offends other races more than it offends us.

djThunderfunk said:

LBrent said:

I remember this song. Love IceT. L&O4Life!

LMAO

But on a serious note...For every White boy who loved this song and loved hip-hop and is far from racist, I hope they got IceT's message at the very very very end where a clearly White voice uses the word in a gesture of "I'm down with you" solidarity...and you hear gunshots and IceT says, "I don't play that."

I'll bet as close as he is with Richard Belzer, a NY Jew, Belz ain't using that word around IceT. Lol

So, yes, sing the songs with that word the way the artist intended...just do yourself a favor and don't misinterpret that as a license to use that word casually among Black folks. Listen to a Gary Owen comedy show if you get that reckless urge.

Agreed!! While I feel perfectly okay with singing along to an Ice-T record like this one or properly saying the name of the album Gold Nigga, I would never think it would be okay to use the word casually. Context is everything...

Wlcm2thdwn3 said:

No. I'm grew up hearing the word and am not really bothered by it. I think it offends other races more than it offends us.

djThunderfunk, Yes!

Wicm2, Yes!

I think that's why the Black people who do use it use it, to make the folks who feel guilty about it...make thier ears sting and make them think about it. Not folks who think it's rude, which it is, but the ones who really still feel racist.

I've used it on occassion, casually when it was "fashionable" and still being used on TV. (Not cable, but regular TV shows like Doogie Howser! There's a YouTube video interveiw with NPH and Sway where they discuss how crazy it is that it was ok to say on TV back then.) But mostly, I don't use it. Not for any reason like feeling politically uncomfortable. Given the right set of circumstances I'd use it, but it'd most likely be in anger not out of fondness, sorta like I use most profanity.

I try to behave like I have some kinda home training.

[Edited 1/30/17 10:49am]

Adorecream said:

FullLipsDotNose said:

Erm, Adorecream is part Maori and part white New Zealander... People are not just black or white

LBrent, I agree, being white I could never have that inside knowledgea nd I think you views about the cultural baggage such terms engenders does mean a lot to the African and African American people. and jealousy does stem from so called White experts on Black culture, and I agree, that emrely outside looking in will never be teh same as being a member of a community. You can study a different culture, immerse yourself in it and live it, but you can never be it.

.

Full lips you are right, but The Maoris are not Black or African derived, we are an Asian (Mongoloid) people and Iam primarily white anyway. Maori were treated poorly in colonialism, but we were never enslaved or subjected to the same levels of racism and other bullshit Black people in all the Americas were, also Maoris do not have the same rich musical heritage and gifts the African American people including Prince and Michael Jackson have offered the world. We are all richer for their contributions.

Thank you.

I'm often a witness to this type of discussion and try to be informative to foreigners because I realize that they often don't know about race relations in the US. Heck, the race relations between Whites and the Japanese during the war? Seriously crazy! Japanese American CITIZENS and thier FAMILIES were placed into "interment camps" with soldiers guarding them. US government was afraid that they might be spies. Fear causes folks to do crazy stuff.

(Incidentally, I know a bit of NZed's Maori history cuz an American writer buddy of mine writes a popular fictional romance series about All Blacks and puts Maori culture in the books for us Americans who didn't have a clue. Sometimes the characters also "go accross the ditch" too so we also get a bit about Australia as well. That's how I know a little about your history, language, traditions, food, music, a few legends, etc...and the haka. Sexy schtuff dat. Mwrar)

databank said:

FullLipsDotNose said:

Does it bother you? And if you don't have black ancestry, does it bother you that you shouldn't sing some of his songs (unless you alter the lyrics)?

P was Black. How can a black person saying "nigga" be offensive? It's like Woody Allen or South Park making jokes on Jews, they can because they're Jew.

This is pretty close. BTW, I made that point to a Jewish person who was being rude. (Depending on the situation, I pull out one of my MANY ethnicities to squash ish). I deliberately said "Jew" which is seen as perjorative even when not being used that way instead of Jewish people's preferred term ("Jewish"). She called me racist. I said what you just said, "Really, so I'm an anti-semitic Jew?" She looked stunned cuz she didn't see "Jew" when she looked at me. She most likely thought Latina or mebbe Italian. Come to find out she's Jewish but doesn't know Hebrew, isn't observant, doesn't even speak Yiddish which is crazy cuz we live in NY and even so nonJews know a few Yiddish words cuz it's common here. I say all that to say...^^^^Yeah That^^^^^

Having racial discussions is necessary to educate ourselves about each other, but am I the only one who finds them emotionally exhausting and draining?

[Edited 1/30/17 10:53am]

I think folks have got the wrong idea here. It isnt a race/right to use thing. Its about going from "some things that you do to me leave me in a velvet swet" to "nigga this nigga that" etc

the fuck with all these essays about black vernacular, use of certain terms, cultural appropriation etc

Iamtheorg said:

I think folks have got the wrong idea here. It isnt a race/right to use thing. Its about going from "some things that you do to me leave me in a velvet swet" to "nigga this nigga that" etc

the fuck with all these essays about black vernacular, use of certain terms, cultural appropriation etc

So am I understanding you correctly that you felt P using it was to be fake "edgy/fashionable"?

this lol

RJOrion said:

why should i feel a certain kinda way cause Prince said Nigga??...he's a black man, im a black man..who is being harmed when he says nigga?...whose feelings are being hurt?...this must be a question by whites, for whites... how did you feel when he said, fuck, pussy, bitch, shit, or motherfucka?... weird thread...

scorp84 said:

"Nigga" was a part of his vocabulary long before the NPG days lol. The other, more "widely known" variation of that word wasn't foreign to him either. Minneapolis was always one of the more tolerant cities in the country, but things were still real during his formative years.

LBrent said:

Adorecream said:

I think it is pointless and being 100% non African and non Negro, find it offensive, that blacks can say nigga all the time, but we cannot as it is "racist", absolute hypocrisy, anyway most of the songs with it, are his shitty trend chasing wannabe rap songs of the early and mid 1990s. Whe he was hanging out with Tony M and all those other hip black guys in his group and wanting to be down with the brothers. Yet back in 1986 he was chilling with Jerome, Greg and Wally, so wanting to be with the boyz was hradly new for Prince. It was dumb as Prince's music transcended the narrow cultural and mental bands of syncopated rap music. Songs like The Flow, Face Down and Hide the Bone are just junk, along with all of Goldnigga. He was cheapening his legacy by even recording this garbage and then putting it on albums. I am sure it was a favour to expose talentless hacks like Tony M, TC Ellis and Kirky J.

.

But he was trend chasing way before that, he was inventing Morris Day to play his streetwise jive style and at heart Prince was one of the Black men who chilled on the corner. I know he had light skin and could write music to rival some of the classic composers, and no doubt many white fans, have this fantasy of him as a white artist writing poppy music for whites. In reality Prince said it himself "Just another N****r singing". Prince was an R and B artist first whether he wanted pigeon holing or not, he may have not wanted that in the 70 and 80s, but by the 90s through to now, he wanted to be taken seriously as a Black man and Black musician again.

The early Time songs and recordings like Baconskin, Chocolate and Do yourself a favour, show Prince adopting a Black pimp like role and it reprises even with all the Jive talking on the Black album and Lovesexy "My name is Andre Crabtree the Third and I have more holes than a golfcourse" that is all Prince. Morris's lines in Chili Sauce - that was all Prince living a fantasy of a streetwise, jive ass Black male hustler. These later rap songs are more of the same. Later on by the 2000s, Prince's music was more R and B and jazz and had a Blacker sound than his mid to late 80s pop offerings and by 2013 Prince had an afro and spoke about blackness all the time, his last albums were full of Black empowerment jams like Baltimore, Black Muse and Mr Man amongst others. Prince achieved piece with his identity by then.

.

This thread links into the uncomfortable truth many face, Prince was a Black artist who made Black music that appealed to all colours of people. No white person I know would even be called Prince, unless they were a real Prince, I mean the name Prince is common amongst Black Americans and through Africa (Prince and its foreign equivalents are in the Top 10 of names in Ghana, Nigeria and the DRC), the only white Prince's I can think are royal ones and Michael Jackson's two boys, who were at least raised by a man who was born a Black American and named them after his mothers father (Prince Scruse - Katherine Jackson's father) who was a Black American born to a slave couple.

.

Nigga was a popular word in the late 80s on-wards popularised through hip hop culture and the spelling was altered to separate it from the racist epithet. I have also heard black people call each other Negro out of affirmation or derision, yet again non Blacks can not use the term as it is racist. Here I disagree, a term should be racist or not, regardless of who uses it, to me N****r is a racist term full stop, it is derogatory and inflammatory and brings up connotations and stereotypes through its usage. There is no justification for its use at all. It is up there with fuck and c**t as the most offensive words ever.

.

I don't think Prince had an identity crisis, in the early days he chose to be multiracial and not black as he saw the Chitin circuit as horrible and limiting him to one type of music, there was a true chart and music apartheid until MJ's and Lionel Richie's true crossover in 1982/83 and that bought prince, Whitney and a few others to superstar success reserved for whites, with even top Black attractions only going so far (Sam Cooke was the only one until Stevie and Michael), even huge black stars like James Brown and Parliament only went so far in the white world. A Black artist before 1982 would only break through, if they had real mass appeal to whites or incredible talent like Stevie Wonder or Michael Jackson. Okay Lover was a hit for Prince, but his true breakthrough only came with Little Red Corvette, a very white sounding pop song. By 1983, he realised he had made a mistake isolating his black core audience and by 1987 he was trying to get them back, finally achieving that in the mid 1990s and the 2000s. In reality Diamonds and Pearls was his first truly Black/urban sounding album and even that had the rock ditties Cream and Thunder. Prince wisely never forgot his white rock sound too and that is why white rock tracks were also left in with r and b and pop.

.

Unlike many artists Black and White, Prince could write and perform for all pop genres, rock, soul, funk and others. Too many other groups had one sound, but his experiments with expletive laden and racist rap songs never worked. His best rap days of wild, strangely does not have the n word in it, although Motherfucker appears a lot.

That was very well thought out and explained...although, as "cool" as you seem and as sensitive to the subject you appear, with all due respect, you as a White person are supposed to feel that way. You're supposed to feel offended, guilty, outraged, opposed to it's use. Perfect.

However, as much as I appreciate your appreciation of P's genius, as sensitive as you feel to the word, it's use, the hypocrisy you think is going on by the Black community using it or not using it, etc, etc...NonWhites can only know what "being Black" and the accompaying experiences/ramifications/social constructs/impact/legacy are up to a certain point.

I could explain more about the use of the word in our community, but to be be frank, it's outside your purview. That's not meant to be insulting, simply a fact.

Some of White resentment also stems from the fact that nonWhites know White culture better than Whites know nonWhite culture...because Whites mostly ignored other races (even the servants who stood silently in the White House but heard everything)..Other races' LIVES depended on getting to know Whites inside and out to guage thier moods and how it would affect us. White folks don't realize that we nonBlacks have forgotten more about y'all than you've ever and will ever know about us...even if you sleep next to us and love us.

Look at it this way...Say a family good-naturedly teases each other with "the dozens", it's inappropriate for someone outside the family to jump into the game and/or interrupt the fun with outrage. The "outsider" may mean well, but they should stay in thier own lane...Same with that word.

I realize that it makes White folks uncomfortable cuz historically it was invented by them and the decendants don't like being reminded of it's ugly history, also White folks feel entitled to walk the planet with a certain all-encompassing unrestricted power...being told that they can't say a word they invented must rankle, but...Oh well.

Nothing personal, sweetie.

[Edited 1/29/17 18:29pm]

sonshine said:

I didn't mind it, wasn't offended by it. As a black man there was nothing inappropriate about Prince using it in his lyrics, or in the way he used it. Some people tend to over-think some things, this being one of them imo. (Would feel different if it were a white performer using the word, but of course that's an entirely different story.)

[Edited 1/30/17 1:28am]

tab?

You quoted certain folks but there was no reply in any of the replies.

[Edited 1/30/17 14:32pm]

LBrent said:

tab?

You quoted certain folks but there was no reply in any of the replies.

[Edited 1/30/17 14:32pm]

word

I don't like the word nor do I use it.

databank said:

FullLipsDotNose said:

Does it bother you? And if you don't have black ancestry, does it bother you that you shouldn't sing some of his songs (unless you alter the lyrics)?

P was Black. How can a black person saying "nigga" be offensive? It's like Woody Allen or South Park making jokes on Jews, they can because they're Jew.

Because all people of African ancestry think alike?
How many millions and you think they all like the term and are ok with it.
I'll say again in the 90s on all kinds of TV talk shows African descendant Americans were arguing against this or for it.
I distinctly remember a black comedian who used it all the time, debating with Speech from the group Arrested Developement.

Has he used it in songs during the 2000s?

Sheila E used it in Koo Koo

Baby, never in my life in the time I've been with U
Has anyone had the ability 2 make me feel so blue
If U lost my number, that's a story 2 be told
The candle burn at both ends, baby, when niggaz get 2 bold
I might take things 2 serious or maybe not at all
It's just that I'm so curious when love bounces from wall 2 wall
(I'm so curious)
Little girls who sleep at night are better left 2 dream
I've just seen 2 many movies, baby, if U know what I mean
Dig up!

Hon E man

he went there ..done it ..and moved on...

I am not so fond of it. Don't care who says it

However, I wouldn't mind word play like....ninja please!

0uterageous said:

I am not so fond of it. Don't care who says it

However, I wouldn't mind word play like....ninja please!

Thats just as bad if its only saying the same thing in context. So if you dont like it, why even use a euphenism for the word?

Some of yall are really brand new.

OldFriends4Sale said:

databank said:

P was Black. How can a black person saying "nigga" be offensive? It's like Woody Allen or South Park making jokes on Jews, they can because they're Jew.

Lots of African-Americans find the word offensive.
In the early 1990s as Hip Hop began expanding in the music world, there were many live debates on the pro & con on the use of this.
.
Also the use of Nigga as a term of endearment is bogus. Too many 'brothas' yell that word at another black man during a fight, during an assault etc A person doesn't yell 'friend/brother' when they are beating someone down.

.

I'm a big fan of the Roots & Common(rapper) and I've always wanted to share their music with people who only knew certain types of rap as official rap. But they used that term too often in their music.

.
NIGGA is just country-slang for the real word that ends in ER

Classic case of someone speaking about some things they aren't too informed about.

The term IS used quite frequently as a term of endearment in the black community. No judgement on whether or not its a good thing, but it certainly is the case.

I guess your last statement was supposed to be a joke. But, if you're so opposed to the word - IF you are, why are you typing it so freely. The "N" word will suffice.

[Edited 2/1/17 17:52pm]

pdiddy2011 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Lots of African-Americans find the word offensive.
In the early 1990s as Hip Hop began expanding in the music world, there were many live debates on the pro & con on the use of this.
.
Also the use of Nigga as a term of endearment is bogus. Too many 'brothas' yell that word at another black man during a fight, during an assault etc A person doesn't yell 'friend/brother' when they are beating someone down.

.

I'm a big fan of the Roots & Common(rapper) and I've always wanted to share their music with people who only knew certain types of rap as official rap. But they used that term too often in their music.

.
NIGGA is just country-slang for the real word that ends in ER

Classic case of someone speaking about some things they aren't too informed about.

The term IS used quite frequently as a term of endearment in the black community. No judgement on whether or not its a good thing, but it certainly is the case.

I guess your last statement was supposed to be a joke. But, if you're so opposed to the word - IF you are, why are you typing it so freely. The "N" word will suffice.

[Edited 2/1/17 17:52pm]

Classic case of someone making an assumption about somone they don't know.

I know it IS used quite frequently as a term of endearment. That is what I'm addressing. It is bogus. Because as soon as someone is mad with another they are a 'dumb ass ni&&a' 'broke ni&&a' or some other negative connotation. It cannot be both. Nobody says 'friend' or 'love' when they are angry at some one or fighting them.

Typing the word or saying it in a discussion for understanding is very much different from using it in everyday life. Which I don't.

Imagine if they cancelled the entire European Royal Family because both Princes were GINGERS! There'd be an uproar! In about 50 years.

Reading some of the responses here, it's clear that a number of non-blacks seem to think they understand better what the word means or does not mean to us black people. As far as the use of the word in the context of Prince's music, one has to consider the time in which he used it. As a 45 yr old black man, I can say that I definltey used to used the word in the 90's as a term of endearment with my black friends, and all the time. It was "cool" to use. Especially when NWA came out; it just heightened the power of the word, as back in the day, it was an issue of "taking back" the word and turning it into a "positive" (and I stress that this is the word as it ends in "a" as opposed to "er". The "er" ending, when heard from a white person, is like being shocked or hit with a sledgehammer). But like anything with youth, you start to think about things and understand that what you thought might be wrong, and going in another direction would serve you better. Such was the case with this word. I'm sure that Prince, just like anything else in his career, thought about this word, why he started using it in the first place, and grew out of it, but used it totally as a term of black endearment, or to call out someone, etc., just the way we used it in reality. Even at 45, when I get with friends from college or just hanging out, we still use the word when it's "just us". Yeah, there are numerous ways that we say it around each other, but to put it bluntly, I know when someone uses it to express camradere vs. anger vs. jealousy, etc. It's just an innate thing that we will never be able to explain to others who claim that the word is bad in any context and point to the fact that if any one of another race said it to us, we'd get pissed. Well yea.

OldFriends4Sale said:

pdiddy2011 said:

Classic case of someone speaking about some things they aren't too informed about.

The term IS used quite frequently as a term of endearment in the black community. No judgement on whether or not its a good thing, but it certainly is the case.

I guess your last statement was supposed to be a joke. But, if you're so opposed to the word - IF you are, why are you typing it so freely. The "N" word will suffice.

[Edited 2/1/17 17:52pm]

Classic case of someone making an assumption about somone they don't know.

I know it IS used quite frequently as a term of endearment. That is what I'm addressing. It is bogus. Because as soon as someone is mad with another they are a 'dumb ass ni&&a' 'broke ni&&a' or some other negative connotation. It cannot be both. Nobody says 'friend' or 'love' when they are angry at some one or fighting them.

Typing the word or saying it in a discussion for understanding is very much different from using it in everyday life. Which I don't.

I beg to differ. Typing the word and saying the word are equivalent. I don't care if it is for discussion sake. Besides, everyone knows what the N word is (when used as a term) and it hardly takes any more time to type, rather than spelling out the word you CLAIM you don't use.

Your point on the words use as a term of endearment is lost on me. Just because you say a word can't be used for friendly purposes as well as nonfriendly (antagonistic) purposes doesn't make it so. For example, "What's up my, MF!" versus "I wish you would, MF". (MF being the expletive.) One MF was used in a friendly manner, one MF used in a nonfriendly (antagonistic). The same is done with the N word.

pdiddy2011 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Classic case of someone making an assumption about somone they don't know.

I know it IS used quite frequently as a term of endearment. That is what I'm addressing. It is bogus. Because as soon as someone is mad with another they are a 'dumb ass ni&&a' 'broke ni&&a' or some other negative connotation. It cannot be both. Nobody says 'friend' or 'love' when they are angry at some one or fighting them.

Typing the word or saying it in a discussion for understanding is very much different from using it in everyday life. Which I don't.

I beg to differ. Typing the word and saying the word are equivalent. I don't care if it is for discussion sake. Besides, everyone knows what the N word is (when used as a term) and it hardly takes any more time to type, rather than spelling out the word you CLAIM you don't use.

Your point on the words use as a term of endearment is lost on me. Just because you say a word can't be used for friendly purposes as well as nonfriendly (antagonistic) purposes doesn't make it so. For example, "What's up my, MF!" versus "I wish you would, MF". (MF being the expletive.) One MF was used in a friendly manner, one MF used in a nonfriendly (antagonistic). The same is done with the N word.

so how do we discuss things if we can't type it?

Hardly the same.

.

At first you said I'm not informed of the use of the word.
now you are saying I probably use it...

MF is hardly the same as a broken English form of Ni&&er

.

The use of the term is bogus.

And I'm glad Prince stopped using it in his music.

pdiddy2011 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Classic case of someone making an assumption about somone they don't know.

I know it IS used quite frequently as a term of endearment. That is what I'm addressing. It is bogus. Because as soon as someone is mad with another they are a 'dumb ass ni&&a' 'broke ni&&a' or some other negative connotation. It cannot be both. Nobody says 'friend' or 'love' when they are angry at some one or fighting them.

Typing the word or saying it in a discussion for understanding is very much different from using it in everyday life. Which I don't.

I beg to differ. Typing the word and saying the word are equivalent. I don't care if it is for discussion sake. Besides, everyone knows what the N word is (when used as a term) and it hardly takes any more time to type, rather than spelling out the word you CLAIM you don't use.

Your point on the words use as a term of endearment is lost on me. Just because you say a word can't be used for friendly purposes as well as nonfriendly (antagonistic) purposes doesn't make it so. For example, "What's up my, MF!" versus "I wish you would, MF". (MF being the expletive.) One MF was used in a friendly manner, one MF used in a nonfriendly (antagonistic). The same is done with the N word.

Is this the only instance of a word being so powerful and inflamatory that it can't even be used in CONTEXT, it must instead be replaced by calling it the N-Word?

Context DOES matter. Discussing a word in context and using the word are NOT the same thing.

As a black man I’ll say this and let the chips fall where they may:

I hate the word whether it be ‘gga or ‘ger. I think the whole gga vs ger was a cop out from the start.

When people were getting heat for calling themselves that this “logic” of how the word was said became the fail safe.

I respect Prince for many things but hearing him use the word made me think less of him.

It’s a foul word born out of hate and dehumanization. Even when we use it ourselves it is

marginalizing.

We are all free to speak as we like but words do have meaning.

[Edited 2/2/17 13:38pm]

NoOneReally said:

As a black man I’ll say this and let the chips fall where they may:

I hate the word whether it be ‘gga or ‘ger. I think the whole gga vs ger was a cop out from the start.

When people were getting heat for calling themselves that this “logic” of how the word was said became the fail safe.

I respect Prince for many things but hearing him use the word made me think less of him.

It’s a foul word born out of hate and dehumanization. Even when we use it ourselves it is

marginalizing.

We are all free to speak as we like but words do have meaning.

[Edited 2/2/17 13:38pm]